FE10 Tierlist 2017

[Augestein]

1 hour ago, Levant Mir Celestia said:

I fail to see how it's safer to advance beyond the first island when you're exposing yourself to multiple attacks, and with laguz being accurate as they are, that's tantamount to suicide.

Because most of them are hindered in movement by the water and the thickets. So killing them first in this case prevents them from clustering up on your and dog-piling one unit. That's what makes Zihark swordmasters so hilariously unfun to use in these chapters on HM because of the random criticals that they can score and get them to kill themselves if you stay in the first area. 

 

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It's about how you judge them. The outstanding unit among scrubs is certainly more helpful to their team than someone who may be better than them but is on a team with others who are even better, and that's often how unit value is determined in these discussions. Sothe does more for his team - and for game completion as a result - than Ike for his own, so he gets a higher score.

In your basketball example, the high schooler's individual merits will probably lead his team further in their own league than the individual merits of a given NBA player, assuming the differences in skill are comparable to the Sothe/Ike situation.

Like, Caineghis beats almost everyone when he exists, yet he's below characters such as Oscar, Gatrie, and Zihark on the list. Do you think that's wrong? It's the same logic. It's the difference between judging what a character can do vs the enemies and judging how much they help the team. Tier lists for FE largely tend to be about the latter.

 

Which I'm judging on the grounds of their usefulness as a unit throughout the entirety of the game rather than just in smaller pockets. 

Not really though. I knew a guy that was the best player at my school in high school, and when it came to college level, he was just so-so, and when he was compared to the other college players who were also good people on their teams, he wasn't nearly as good. He had pockets of excellence, but wasn't enough to be in the NBA. That's my whole point. He's still not better than other people. He's going to be good, there's no denying that as his skill was enough to be a great contributor in high school, but just because he was the best in comparison. The biggest fish in a small pond is not necessarily a large fish in the ocean. You might keep wondering why I'm making analogies, but the reason I'm doing so, is because I think it stands to reason that people are massively overrating the early game. It's kinda silly that being good for 1 or 2 chapters somehow makes you that good. Because again, I reiterate, if we're going with that logic, someone like Edward should be higher. He's 1st best unit for prologue, and 2nd best for Chapter 1. Chapter 2 he isn't too shabby either, only really outdone by Nolan and Sothe. Yet Zihark is that high for being... The best in an astounding 0 chapters. Like how Mia is the best in ... 0 chapters. And yet Mia in the end is not only easier to use, but also just as competent , if not more than a raised Zihark. The DB is weak, but people are exaggerating how weak the DB is at this point. They aren't that incompetent. 

Kinda, yeah. Zihark isn't THAT useful in his chapters. You can totally get by without him with minimal to no use. And it's weird because Oscar and Gatire are both good, but somehow worse than Shinon? Shinon gets super powerful because of the Double Bow, no argument there, but ... It's at endgame, so why is Shinon somehow allowed to be that high in comparison to both Oscar and Gatrie? Like I said, things are random here. Sometimes endgame is weighted, and then other times it's just shrugged off and ignored. 

[Florete]

19 minutes ago, Augestein said:

Not really though. I knew a guy that was the best player at my school in high school, and when it came to college level, he was just so-so, and when he was compared to the other college players who were also good people on their teams, he wasn't nearly as good. He had pockets of excellence, but wasn't enough to be in the NBA. That's my whole point. He's still not better than other people. He's going to be good, there's no denying that as his skill was enough to be a great contributor in high school, but just because he was the best in comparison. The biggest fish in a small pond is not necessarily a large fish in the ocean. You might keep wondering why I'm making analogies, but the reason I'm doing so, is because I think it stands to reason that people are massively overrating the early game. It's kinda silly that being good for 1 or 2 chapters somehow makes you that good. Because again, I reiterate, if we're going with that logic, someone like Edward should be higher. He's 1st best unit for prologue, and 2nd best for Chapter 1. Chapter 2 he isn't too shabby either, only really outdone by Nolan and Sothe. Yet Zihark is that high for being... The best in an astounding 0 chapters. Like how Mia is the best in ... 0 chapters. And yet Mia in the end is not only easier to use, but also just as competent , if not more than a raised Zihark. The DB is weak, but people are exaggerating how weak the DB is at this point. They aren't that incompetent.

Huh? This doesn't follow what I said at all. "the high schooler's individual merits will probably lead his team further in their own league than the individual merits of a given NBA player"

Note the bolded. Yeah, he wouldn't be as good as NBA players. But he'll make more of an impact on his own team than one NBA player likely will on his own. That's the kind of logic that puts Sothe over Ike; his raw performance vs enemies may not be as strong, but his contribution overall is greater. And since this is different context, that's where the comparison ends. Sothe and Ike aren't NBA players. One FE character can be considered better than another despite being worse statistically.

[-Cynthia-]

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It's kinda silly that being good for 1 or 2 chapters somehow makes you that good.

Well, do you consider Cain 'that good' even though he only exists for one chapter (though with all the parts maybe ~2.5 chapters really)? That's my argument against the 4-E only units being too high- I don't see them that different than Tormod or Geoffrey or whatever. They have a few chapters where they're one of the best and are non existent/not very useful for the rest of the game.

I think Shinon is a bit overrated- having limited Enemy Phase is a pretty hard limitation to work around. 

 

 

 

 

Edited January 19, 2017 by -Cynthia-

[BrightBow]

44 minutes ago, Augestein said:

Because most of them are hindered in movement by the water and the thickets. So killing them first in this case prevents them from clustering up on your and dog-piling one unit. That's what makes Zihark swordmasters so hilariously unfun to use in these chapters on HM because of the random criticals that they can score and get them to kill themselves if you stay in the first area.

Criticals shouldn't be an issue. You could just use a Bronze Sword.

[Augestein]

37 minutes ago, Florete said:

Huh? This doesn't follow what I said at all. "the high schooler's individual merits will probably lead his team further in their own league than the individual merits of a given NBA player"

Note the bolded. Yeah, he wouldn't be as good as NBA players. But he'll make more of an impact on his own team than one NBA player likely will on his own. That's the kind of logic that puts Sothe over Ike; his raw performance vs enemies may not be as strong, but his contribution overall is greater. And since this is different context, that's where the comparison ends. Sothe and Ike aren't NBA players. One FE character can be considered better than another despite being worse statistically.

Sure it does. I get what you were saying there. And when you hit the final tier list which compares everyone, they fall short. Had these been broken up as Part 1, Part 2, Part 3 and Part 4 tier list? I think it would make slightly more sense. As it stands now, you just have a list where everyone is compared, which would mean that in theory everyone should be compared based on their base stats and hypothetical performances from the moment they join. IE, Sothe should be compared to Ike, in P-4 and P-4 alone. It's unfair for a unit to be lowered on the tier list overall because other people around them perform slightly less worse or around the same level when both are good. I find that kinda nonsensical. Even if Sothe is forced on a different team of Part 4 than Ike, they are still within the same realms of being on the same team in this part. They share BEXP, they both share funds, they share many things, and of course, when you reach endgame, they are directly on the field together. That's my issue. Even if the maps are short, endgame is still composed of 5 maps, and it's still 5 maps that Sothe isn't good in for instance (he's not particularly good in the desert either and he's just okay in 4-P and even THAT'S pushing it). 

 

36 minutes ago, -Cynthia- said:

Well, do you consider Cain 'that good' even though he only exists for one chapter (though with all the parts maybe ~2.5 chapters really)? That's my argument against the 4-E only units being too high- I don't see them that different than Tormod or Geoffrey or whatever- they have a few chapters where they're one of the best and are non existent/not very useful for the rest of the game.

I think Shinon is a bit overrated- having limited Enemy Phase is a pretty hard limitation to work around. 

 

 

 

 

No. It's not necessarily a matter of him being that good. It's a matter of Sothe being that mediocre towards the end. That's the issue. Tormod is different in this case because Tormod is good for a couple and then comes back outlandishly bad, and you know what? He has bad scores. Geoffrey is alright in the beginning and comes back pretty okay, not nearly as good as he was before, so what happens? Middle tier. Makes sense. 

I agree. 

 

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Criticals shouldn't be an issue. You could just use a Bronze Sword.

Zihark still deals with Adept procs. It's not fun. You can trade switch I suppose, but I'd rather just use a beef cake like Nolan that doesn't have to worry about that. Why worry about all of these extra things, tank your attack and all of this nonsense when you can use Nolan, Jill, Volug (yeah, he's still a better choice), Aran, or even Sothe. 

 

Either way, I'm kinda done because I remember now why I hated tier list discussions. 

Edited January 19, 2017 by Augestein

[Shadow Mir]

1 hour ago, Augestein said:

Because most of them are hindered in movement by the water and the thickets. So killing them first in this case prevents them from clustering up on your and dog-piling one unit. That's what makes Zihark swordmasters so hilariously unfun to use in these chapters on HM because of the random criticals that they can score and get them to kill themselves if you stay in the first area. 

It's still stupid, as I see it, since you're putting yourself at risk of multiple attacks, and tigers hurt like hell - pretty much no one wants to take more than one tiger attack. And let's not forget this is fog of war, too.

[Augestein]

2 minutes ago, Levant Mir Celestia said:

It's still stupid, as I see it, since you're putting yourself at risk of multiple attacks, and tigers hurt like hell - pretty much no one wants to take more than one tiger attack. And let's not forget this is fog of war, too.

Buy the torch. 

[Florete]

12 minutes ago, Augestein said:

Sure it does. I get what you were saying there. And when you hit the final tier list which compares everyone, they fall short. Had these been broken up as Part 1, Part 2, Part 3 and Part 4 tier list? I think it would make slightly more sense. As it stands now, you just have a list where everyone is compared, which would mean that in theory everyone should be compared based on their base stats and hypothetical performances from the moment they join. IE, Sothe should be compared to Ike, in P-4 and P-4 alone. It's unfair for a unit to be lowered on the tier list overall because other people around them perform slightly less worse or around the same level when both are good. I find that kinda nonsensical. Even if Sothe is forced on a different team of Part 4 than Ike, they are still within the same realms of being on the same team in this part. They share BEXP, they both share funds, they share many things, and of course, when you reach endgame, they are directly on the field together. That's my issue. Even if the maps are short, endgame is still composed of 5 maps, and it's still 5 maps that Sothe isn't good in for instance (he's not particularly good in the desert either and he's just okay in 4-P and even THAT'S pushing it).

That doesn't make sense. That's saying only Sothe's part 4 counts. Why? Part 1 exists and we have to beat it, too.

I can understand your issue to an extent. RD is just difficult to tier because of all the team-switching. In any other FE it's pretty easy to compare characters directly to each other because they stay with you, but in RD you have different characters at different times, so to combine them all into one list you can't just compare them directly and leave it at that. That's why people weigh their overall performance, looking at how much they can do compared to what happens without them. You don't have Sothe? Part 1 becomes way harder. You don't have Ike? Part 3 is only a bit harder.

[Shadow Mir]

7 minutes ago, Augestein said:

Buy the torch. 

I do, and it shows me that there's not that much water between the portion of land where you start and the nearest portions of land, 

[Junkhead]

11 hours ago, ping said:

I didn't vote that way (7.5 Sothe vs. 9 Ike, although in hindsight, 8 and 8.5 respecively might be closer to what I think of them), but I can see why you woud. Sothe is certainly a more central character for the DB than Ike is for Greils Mercs, so a better score for him might be reasonable despite his rather mediocre performance in part 4. However, I still think that Ike performs better in his chapters than Sothe does in his (with the exception of his first 2 or 3 maps) - it's just that Ike doesn't stand out as much because most of the other Mercs are doing a lot better than your average DB member, as well.

It's a question of weighting, really. Do five units that join at the same time and that are about equal in strength and completely stomp their opponents deserve a higher rating than one single unit that doesn't really dominate the enemy, but still does better than all of the other player units on the map? I would answer that question with a very confident 'I dunno' slightly leaning towards 'no'. The reason why I still see Ike slightly ahead of Sothe is because he starts strong and doesn't really lose any steam at any point. The story-based promotion is slightly annoying, but it's early enough to make sure he keeps ahead of the game - the worst part (for me at least ;) ) is that he doesn't gain XP when he hits level 20.

Glad you get it. Almost thought people would actually take it for a troll, but I'm 100% honest. 

Sothe is better, or at the very very least, tied. Sothe really trivialises Part 1, and it's even more evident in HM. Forges keep him 1RKO'ing consistently all up to Endgame (he's only missing out on Myrmidons, who he still stomps). He's pretty much entitled to Zihark's Adept, so that helps against Knights and taking out the 1-6-2 boss. He doesn't fall in Part 3 as much as people think, because he can do something like Vantage+Resolve + Micaiah support to be pretty solid. 3-12, he can still snipe the ledges very reliably. And unlike the rest, I really hold any weight over his (lack of) Part 4 performance, because he's already trivialised the most important part of the game, and that's much better than Ike can say. 

Ike is consistently looking for Spd procs just to keep doubling, and using a Speedwings only takes away from at least two people who will definitely want it (Haar & Titania). I'd even consider Oscar, who becomes a lot more dominant on the right resources (Wing + Crown, Adept to consistently 1RKO). Ike's not doing anything particularly special at "I'll 1RKO as long as I keep doubling!" and only being God at, like, Part 4.

[Sweet_Basil]

7 minutes ago, Soul~! said:

Glad you get it. Almost thought people would actually take it for a troll, but I'm 100% honest. 

Sothe is better, or at the very very least, tied. Sothe really trivialises Part 1, and it's even more evident in HM. Forges keep him 1RKO'ing consistently all up to Endgame (he's only missing out on Myrmidons, who he still stomps). He's pretty much entitled to Zihark's Adept, so that helps against Knights and taking out the 1-6-2 boss. He doesn't fall in Part 3 as much as people think, because he can do something like Vantage+Resolve + Micaiah support to be pretty solid. 3-12, he can still snipe the ledges very reliably. And unlike the rest, I really hold any weight over his (lack of) Part 4 performance, because he's already trivialised the most important part of the game, and that's much better than Ike can say. 

Ike is consistently looking for Spd procs just to keep doubling, and using a Speedwings only takes away from at least two people who will definitely want it (Haar & Titania). I'd even consider Oscar, who becomes a lot more dominant on the right resources (Wing + Crown, Adept to consistently 1RKO). Ike's not doing anything particularly special at "I'll 1RKO as long as I keep doubling!" and only being God at, like, Part 4.

but almost anyone is god at part 4 if you raised them right.

[MisterIceTeaPeach]

I'm honest the only chapters Sothe is really godly are 1-2, 1-3 and 1-4.

1-3 is one of the hardest chapters in the game, so Sothe is absolute appreciated who can (almost) oneround most of the generics or weak them enough to give the kills to other units.

In 1-4 he's the only one, unless you have Nolan who leveled HP and defense twice, who can take two hits by the tigers.

However later on you'll have other comparable units like Zihark, Volug, Jill, Nolan and maybe even Edward who can oneround enemies a / o take mulitple hits in part 1. It's not a Sothe-solo anymore. The early chapters of part 1 are the ones which give him the most credits. At the end of part 1 Sothe's still good, but not godly anymore since you'll have other good units besides him. In 3-6 and 3-13 he's a great player phase unit, but that's it. He's nothing special anymore.

 

Ike's earlygame without speed boost is not great. But unlike Sothe he has opposing curve of usefulness. With earth-affinity and Ragnell he'll turn out into a beast. At least in 3-11 he's way better than Sothe.

Sure he's never really needed in his own team unlike Sothe, but at the end you're still happy about his perfomance in endgame.

Edited January 19, 2017 by Eleanor Hume

[Augestein]

41 minutes ago, Florete said:

That doesn't make sense. That's saying only Sothe's part 4 counts. Why? Part 1 exists and we have to beat it, too.

I can understand your issue to an extent. RD is just difficult to tier because of all the team-switching. In any other FE it's pretty easy to compare characters directly to each other because they stay with you, but in RD you have different characters at different times, so to combine them all into one list you can't just compare them directly and leave it at that. That's why people weigh their overall performance, looking at how much they can do compared to what happens without them. You don't have Sothe? Part 1 becomes way harder. You don't have Ike? Part 3 is only a bit harder.

No it doesn't only count part 4. Sothe is higher than everyone else before hand, but worse than people that are better than him. IE, people like Jill contribute fine in DB, and then continue to be awesome later on. Hence why she has such an outstanding score. She starts out okay, and then continues to be good until the end. If Part 4 was only counting for Sothe, I'd put people like Fiona higher than him-- which is most certainly not the case. The issue here is that most DB members that are worse than Sothe in this game end up better, but I still wouldn't rate them higher than Sothe simply because of what Sothe does beforehand. Like I said before, I rated Edward something like 5 including the beginning where he was helpful, but docked points off for him still not being the best possible choice, with 5 being an average unit score for him.,and gave Sothe a score of 6.5 with him being above average and leaning towards good, but ultimately being hampered by endgame. Had Sothe not had atrocious caps and kinda lame growths I definitely would have made him higher.  

If I was rating Sothe in Part 1, he''d be a 10/10 he's got speed, he has power, he has defense. He has 1-2 range, he's outstanding. The units that are "better" than him have overkill, so I don't care, and even then, Sothe can nab special items that many other characters can only dream of. 8 maps is pretty solid. I'll even it out because Sothe takes awhile to join on his first chapter, and combine that with 6 having 2 parts. 

In part 3: Sothe is hurt a little bit, but still has tricks to be kinda useful. He still has things like the Beast killer to help him do more damage, he still has 1-2 range, and Kard can be nice to try to go for an extra bit of damage on a critical. I'd rate him about 7.5 / 10. He's good, but he no longer feels invincible and the units that are appearing to grow around him are starting to look pretty good comparatively. Units like Jill have better comparable attack with their superior weaponry, units like Zihark have better affinities and are dodgier than Sothe,and units like Aran have much better durability. The DB can actually start to handle themselves quite well. He's no longer your go to unit to survive through things, and there's nothing to steal here. 3 maps. 

Part 4: Out of the Dawn Brigade units, assuming you bothered using them, they are all better than him. But that's okay, or at least it would be if he were actually good. His attack is kinda pitiful because of that lame 22 strength cap in Tier 2, and the next tier isn't much to look forward to either. Which even more irritatingly, he cannot have until after 4-P. So he's starting with 24 strength in tier, which is kinda lousy.  Which means that he's stuck working up from that and has one chapter to get as high as he can before end game, and with his defense, that can pose a problem, and he's not particularly good in the desert map.  Knives aren't looking too great anymore, and even with the Baselard, it's still not anything special. It's the same attack as Ragnell, and Ragnell is 1-2 range, and plus 5 defense. And every other weapon that is 1 ranged lock has 19+ might. I'd rate him about 2.5 / 10 . He's honestly one of the worst units to bring into the endgame and in part 4 that aren't awful dreadful units like Tormod , even characters like Sanaki can at least do okay damage. They aren't great, but still better than endgame Sothe. and even if he is "free," I'd question if it's even worth deploying him on the map. So he's bad for about 7 maps. 2 split up chapters, and the 5 for endgame. Short or not, he's doing no favors to finish them. 

So overall, he'd have about a 6.6 score from me. Which 6.5 was the closest to it. I could have given him a 7, but I don't really see a point in rounding that high up when I can round down to a closer tangible number. I definitely am NOT ignoring early game performance. His early game performance is what stops him from being complete and utter garbage in my eyes. 

 

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I do, and it shows me that there's not that much water between the portion of land where you start and the nearest portions of land, 

It's about 3-4 tiles. That's pretty much all you need. If you go straight up it's kinda dangerous, but if you go a bit up and right or right and up, it's pretty nice. 

Edited January 19, 2017 by Augestein

[Junkhead]

14 minutes ago, Eleanor Hume said:

I'm honest the only chapters Sothe is really godly are 1-2, 1-3 and 1-4.

1-3 is one of the hardest chapters in the game, so Sothe is absolute appreciated who can (almost) oneround most of the generics or weak them enough to give the kills to other units.

In 1-4 he's the only one, unless you have Nolan who leveled HP and defense twice, who can take two hits by the tigers.

However later on you'll have other comparable units like Zihark, Volug, Jill, Nolan and maybe even Edward who can oneround enemies a / o take mulitple hits in part 1. It's not a Sothe-solo anymore. The early chapters of part 1 are the ones which give him the most credits. At the end of part 1 Sothe's still good, but not godly anymore since you'll have other good units besides him. In 3-6 and 3-13 he's a great player phase unit, but that's it. He's nothing special anymore.

 

Ike's earlygame without speed boost is not great. But unlike Sothe he has opposing curve of usefulness. With earth-affinity and Ragnell he'll turn out into a beast. At least in 3-11 he's way better than Sothe.

Sure he's never really needed in his own team unlike Sothe, but at the end you're still happy about his perfomance in endgame.

Most of those situations you list are rather situational, though. No one is really competing with Sothe. He doesn't lose any points for failing to 1RKO some enemies, Zihark's definitely falling behind (he's only "winning" with Adept, because Sothe can 1RKO 90% of the enemies with forges; loses in durability and mobility type, if you care to split hairs), Jill's still in training, Tauroneo basically only exists one chapter/doesn't keep up like Sothe in 1-6-2, Volug lacks 2-range and stops 1RKO'ing rather quick (by like 1-2 HP on Soldiers & Fighters). 

Bottom line, Sothe does what he does really well, at a really low/to no cost (forges, Adept is rather optional) for the hardest parts of the game and longer than most. 

 

EDIT: Actually tempted to try out Sothe post-Part 3 to see if he's really that bad. Numbers say yeah, but I think there's more to it (same with Volug).

Edited January 19, 2017 by Soul~!

[Radiant head]

13 minutes ago, Eleanor Hume said:

I'm honest the only chapters Sothe is really godly are 1-2, 1-3 and 1-4.

1-3 is one of the hardest chapters in the game, so Sothe is absolute appreciated who can (almost) oneround most of the generics or weak them enough to give the kills to other units.

In 1-4 he's the only one, unless you have Nolan who leveled HP and defense twice, who can take two hits by the tigers.

However later on you'll have other comparable units like Zihark, Volug, Jill, Nolan and maybe even Edward who can oneround enemies a / o take mulitple hits in part 1. It's not a Sothe-solo anymore. The early chapters of part 1 are the ones which give him the most credits. At the end of part 1 Sothe's still good, but not godly anymore since you'll have other good units besides him. In 3-6 and 3-13 he's a great player phase unit, but that's it. He's nothing special anymore.

 

Ike's earlygame without speed boost is not great. But unlike Sothe he has opposing curve of usefulness. With earth-affinity and Ragnell he'll turn out into a beast. At least in 3-11 he's way better than Sothe.

Sure he's never really needed in his own team unlike Sothe, but at the end you're still happy about his perfomance in endgame.

was going to make this post.  except i don't think he's that useful in 1-2 outside of those chests.   he's useful up until 1-e, and 1-3 and 1-4 are the only ones that i would say are actually hard without him.  

[Shadow Mir]

29 minutes ago, Augestein said:

It's about 3-4 tiles. That's pretty much all you need. If you go straight up it's kinda dangerous, but if you go a bit up and right or right and up, it's pretty nice. 

What, and risk getting pincered?! H-e-two hockey sticks no! 

Edited January 19, 2017 by Levant Mir Celestia

[Fire Emblem Fan]

I have a couple of changes. These'll probably be my last ones, everyone else seems to be how I'd rank them. Anyway:

Black Knight down from a 8 to a 7.5

Geoffrey down from a 7 to a 6

Mist down from a 6.5 to a 5.5

Sigrun down from a 6 to a 5

Rolf down from a 6 to a 5

Pelleas and Oliver down from a 5 to a 4.5

Astrid and Kyze down from a 2.5 to a 2

Fiona down from a 2 to a 1.5

Bastian up from a 4 to a 4.5

Sothe up from a 6 to a 6.5

 

[Ema Skye]

Re: Sothe. He's basically the best character until Nailah joins the DB. Yes, Volug is more bulky but both ORKO everything and Sothe has 1-2 range. I could honestly see an argument for Sothe > Nailah in Part 1 due to the one range (and honestly, who cares that Nailah has 50 atk or whatever it is when both ORKO). Jill isn't death on wings yet, which necessitates Sothe more. He's also one of your best offense units in 3-6 as he hits the entire map for 3x damage (which basically means he's only getting hit on enemy phase) and I don't mind him in 3-12 for being reliable 1-2 range as well. Ranged attacks on player phase, especially with forges, absolutely break this game. It's the one thing I learned as a drafter.

Apparently it didn't like the votes I put in but here are mine since I missed the whole thread:

 

Micaiah: 7

Edward: 4

Leo: 3

Nolan: 8.5

Laura: 4

Sothe: 9

Ilyana: 4.5

Aran: 6

Meg: 2

Volug: 8.5

Tauroneo: 4

Jill: 10

Zihark: 7

Fiona: 1

Tormod: 4

Maurim: 5

Vika: 1

Nailah: 8.5

Rafiel: 9

Elincia: 8

Marcia: 8

Nealuchi: 5

Leanna: 8

Haar: 9.5

Nephenee: 7.5

Brom: 5

Heather: 3

Lucia: 2.5

Mordecai: 4.5

Lethe: 3

Geoffery: 4.5

Kieran: 5

Makalov: 3

Astrid: 1.5

Devdan: 5

Calill: 6

Ike: 8

Titania: 9.5

Soren: 4

Oscar: 7.5

Boyd: 5

Rolf: 4

Shinon: 6.5

Gatrie: 7

Mist: 4

Rhys: 3.5

Mia: 8

Ranulf: 5

Kyza: 0.5

Lyre: 0

Reyson: 9.5

Janaff: 6

Ulki: 6

Sigrun: 4

Tanith: 6

Sanaki: 2

Naesala: 6

Tibarn: 7.5

Pelleas: 1

Stefan: 4

Oliver: 0.5

Bastian: 2

Volke: 1.5

Renning: 3

Kurthnaga: 1.5

Ena: 3

Nasir: 3.5

Gareth: 0.5

Lehran: 1

Edited January 19, 2017 by Ema Skye

[MisterIceTeaPeach]

3 hours ago, Soul~! said:

Most of those situations you list are rather situational, though. No one is really competing with Sothe. He doesn't lose any points for failing to 1RKO some enemies, Zihark's definitely falling behind (he's only "winning" with Adept, because Sothe can 1RKO 90% of the enemies with forges; loses in durability and mobility type, if you care to split hairs), Jill's still in training, Tauroneo basically only exists one chapter/doesn't keep up like Sothe in 1-6-2, Volug lacks 2-range and stops 1RKO'ing rather quick (by like 1-2 HP on Soldiers & Fighters). 

Bottom line, Sothe does what he does really well, at a really low/to no cost (forges, Adept is rather optional) for the hardest parts of the game and longer than most. 

 

EDIT: Actually tempted to try out Sothe post-Part 3 to see if he's really that bad. Numbers say yeah, but I think there's more to it (same with Volug).

About which chapter(s) are you exactly talking?

• In 3-7 Zihark can oneround pretty much everyone except for knights too.
• In 3-8 both can't because some brigands are very bulky. Brave sword can oneround though. Also Sothe might not even have the speed to double all the brigands, because they have 17-18 speed in HM. However Sothe is less affected by the swamp than everyone else aside of the laguz.
• In 3-F I'm highly sure that Zihark can oneround most of the enemies with a forged steel sword. With his base speed he can even double Jarod and maybe need only speed point to double everyone. Of course his HP and defense are worse, so he can't take two hits by everyone. Furthermore wind edge is the worse range weapon, especially combined with the higher evasion of the opponents. Sothe with a forged knife is better against range weapon users.

Also Jill should be promoted till 1-F, so she can do fine as well. Of course you can't forge for her range weapon either, but in close combat she does fine, even better than Sothe against physical units. However if we're talking about a no transfer Jill, she might need a speed point to double all the generics except for the myrms and Jarod.

3 hours ago, Radiant head said:

was going to make this post.  except i don't think he's that useful in 1-2 outside of those chests.   he's useful up until 1-e, and 1-3 and 1-4 are the only ones that i would say are actually hard without him.  

As for 1-2 it depends a bit on Nolan's performance. The two soldiers next to Sothe can be a real threat, if Nolan's AS is so low that he gets doubled by the iron lance soldier.

(I added this chapter after thinking about it, buy yeah, Sothe's not really necessary, if you want to turtle with Nolan.)

In 1-5 he's also pretty helpful, if you want to kill all the enemies fast on the ledge. Edward can only oneround all the mages with the wind edge without a crit.

2 hours ago, Fire Emblem Fan said:

I have a couple of changes. These'll probably be my last ones, everyone else seems to be how I'd rank them. Anyway:

Black Knight down from a 8 to a 7.5

Geoffrey down from a 7 to a 6

Mist down from a 6.5 to a 5.5

Sigrun down from a 6 to a 5

Rolf down from a 6 to a 5

Pelleas and Oliver down from a 5 to a 4.5

Astrid and Kyze down from a 2.5 to a 2

Fiona down from a 2 to a 1.5

Bastian up from a 4 to a 4.5

Sothe up from a 6 to a 6.5

 

added

2 hours ago, Ema Skye said:

Re: Sothe. He's basically the best character until Nailah joins the DB. Yes, Volug is more bulky but both ORKO everything and Sothe has 1-2 range. I could honestly see an argument for Sothe > Nailah in Part 1 due to the one range (and honestly, who cares that Nailah has 50 atk or whatever it is when both ORKO). Jill isn't death on wings yet, which necessitates Sothe more. He's also one of your best offense units in 3-6 as he hits the entire map for 3x damage (which basically means he's only getting hit on enemy phase) and I don't mind him in 3-12 for being reliable 1-2 range as well. Ranged attacks on player phase, especially with forges, absolutely break this game. It's the one thing I learned as a drafter.

Apparently it didn't like the votes I put in but here are mine since I missed the whole thread:

  Reveal hidden contents

Micaiah: 7

Edward: 4

Leo: 3

Nolan: 8.5

Laura: 4

Sothe: 9

Ilyana: 4.5

Aran: 6

Meg: 2

Tauroneo: 4

Jill: 10

Zihark: 7

Fiona: 1

Tormod: 4

Maurim: 5

Vika: 1

Nailah: 8.5

Rafiel: 9

Elincia: 8

Marcia: 8

Nealuchi: 5

Leanna: 8

Haar: 9.5

Nephenee: 7.5

Brom: 5

Heather: 3

Lucia: 2.5

Mordecai: 4.5

Lethe: 3

Geoffery: 4.5

Kieran: 5

Makalov: 3

Astrid: 1.5

Devdan: 5

Calill: 6

Ike: 8

Titania: 9.5

Soren: 4

Oscar: 7.5

Boyd: 5

Rolf: 4

Shinon: 6.5

Gatrie: 7

Mist: 4

Rhys: 3.5

Mia: 8

Ranulf: 5

Kyza: 0.5

Lyre: 0

Reyson: 9.5

Sigrun: 4

Tanith: 6

Sanaki: 2

Naesala: 6

Tibarn: 7.5

Pelleas: 1

Stefan: 4

Oliver: 0.5

Bastian: 2

Volke: 1.5

Renning: 3

Kurthnaga: 1.5

Ena: 3

Nasir: 3.5

Gareth: 0.5

Lehran: 1

added

Some units like Volug, Janaff and Ulkie are missing.

Also, I saw your UN in the poll once or twice, so you voted actually.

However of course I can't check out for which units you voted, so I have to take possible double votes.

[MisterIceTeaPeach]

After looking the results I had to do a few vote changes:

• Edward from 7 to 7.5 because it's wrong in my eyes to rank him lower than Aran, who has more issues in HM. Edward is as underrated for me as Sothe for other people. His double attacks are really appreciated. Furthermore in HM he's easier to train in part 1 than Nolan. I give him both the exact same rating just because Edward > Nolan in part 1, and Nolan > Edward after that. Giving Mia a 8.5, Zihark a 8 and Edward a 7.5 seems to be a fair deal.
• Sothe from 7.5 to 8
• Danved and Makalov from 4.5 to 4
• Mordecai from 6 to 5.5
• Muarim from 5.5 to 5
• Tormod, Sanaki and Calill from 5 to 4.5. Tormod and Calill have poor availibility and Sanaki has a really rough start.
• Soren from 7 to 6. I really overrated him. Nevertheless the mage who needs the least effort to become good.
• Boyd from 5.5 to 5
• Rolf from 6.5 to 6
• Volke from 6 to 5
• Stefan from 5.5 to 5

https://drive.google.com/open?id=0By3VdhdU6OlxclplZ1M1RmNWS1k

 

Still I find Aran is overrated and Edward and Leonardo underrated.

Also Meg is a bit underrated. She's not four points worse than Aran.

 

 

Edited January 23, 2017 by Eleanor Hume

[-Cynthia-]

Edward is easier to use in Part 1 than Nolan? He's 2HKOd by pretty much any enemy combination from 1-1 onward (Nolan is 3-4HKOd) and his offense depends very much on getting the necessary speed levels- he can't even double stuff in 1-1 if he doesn't get a speed level in 1-P. Even then he's only 2RKOing, which is the same offensive output as Nolan. 

[MisterIceTeaPeach]

Nolan has 15% less strength growth than Edward and has the same speed growth as him, but 3-4 lower base.

Edward does more damage to the enemies than Nolan because he'll double most of the enemies in part 1. With a forged weapon he has no problem to oneround them.

Sure, Nolan has more defense and can take two hits (except for steel axes), but he can do less to the enemies than Edward in HM, and so he usually levels lower than Edward does. If you're really lucky with Nolan's strength, he can maybe oneshot a mage. But that's rather unusual.

In part 1 in HM both are player phase units for the most part, even Nolan. Nolan suffers the second most of all DB units due to the difficulty jump between normal and hard after Aran. Edward does too in the very early chapters, but it can be easier fixed due to his higher base speed.

 

 

 

[Shadow Mir]

On 1/23/2017 at 2:06 AM, Eleanor Hume said:

Also Meg is a bit underrated. She's not four points worse than Aran.

 

Ya ask me, "Meg" and "underrated" cancel each other out. You seem to put too much emphasis on her speed, as if that magically absolves her of all her other shortcomings, when she's still dying more easily than he is, 9 times out of 10.

Edited January 25, 2017 by Levant Mir Celestia

[MisterIceTeaPeach]

The main reason why I gave Meg a low but no awful score of 3 is that her base speed is so low that she'll get doubled and killed by the 12 speed tigers in 1-4. However if you can manage to give her some levels to rise her speed she will do better than Aran in the longrun.

Also base Aran can't even take two steel axes and tigers in HM. In 1-4 he'll get doubled by all the cats and all the laguz have a critrate against him. In 1-E he needs at least 13 speed not to get doubled, not guaranteed at all. If he doesn't have the required speed, he maybe can take two steel lances and bows but 16 speed fighters usually kill him.

If Meg only had one more base speed in HM, she'd be already more usable than him in the longrun because of her higher speed. I can understand Soul's comment and rating of 6.5. (This is what I would give her in NM.) Her low movement isn't even a large issue since most part 1 are rather small.

[Shadow Mir]

1 hour ago, Eleanor Hume said:

The main reason why I gave Meg a low but no awful score of 3 is that her base speed is so low that she'll get doubled and killed by the 12 speed tigers in 1-4. However if you can manage to give her some levels to rise her speed she will do better than Aran in the longrun.

Also base Aran can't even take two steel axes and tigers in HM. In 1-4 he'll get doubled by all the cats and all the laguz have a critrate against him. In 1-E he needs at least 13 speed not to get doubled, not guaranteed at all. If he doesn't have the required speed, he maybe can take two steel lances and bows but 16 speed fighters usually kill him.

If Meg only had one more base speed in HM, she'd be already more usable than him in the longrun because of her higher speed. I can understand Soul's comment and rating of 6.5. (This is what I would give her in NM.) Her low movement isn't even a large issue since most part 1 are rather small.

I'm not really seeing it when her base speed is even lower than his, she's weaker pretty much forever, she can't do the one thing a knight is supposed to do, which is tank, and she's drearily underleveled, with uninspiring bases and an equally uninspiring growth spread to boot.

I dunno about you, but I find it hard to care that Aran might get doubled when he's generally still taking less damage than Meg is.

That point about her movement issues not being that bad is BS, and you know it. Her movement issues haunt her even for most of part 1. And I still think a 6.5 for Meg is stupidiculous.

 

Edited January 25, 2017 by Levant Mir Celestia