FE10 Tierlist 2017

[Sweet_Basil]

2 hours ago, Ema Skye said:

Meg's bases aren't good for her level. Or an Armor Knight, the worst class in FE10 (or close to).

If anything, it shows that her base level is bad. She's so far from promotion and she's never getting to it because she's got awful movement and bad stats.

And those stats aren't getting fixed with BEXP because of her growths.

The point is that they aren't terrible because they're easily salvageable. Her movement is about the only thing I find reasonable against her and even I find it exaggerated as an argument against her because enemies are always accessible in every map in Part 1 save for 1-6-1 and even there the majority of the exp is in the Mid area because the only one that can get safely to the left side is either Sothe or a dropped Tauro..
 

1 hour ago, Levant Mir Celestia said:

I don't see what "redeeming aspects" Meg has, because she's screwed over by her bases, growths, and class.

Sure, she might be able to make use of it, but I'm not seeing why I should give it to her over Edward or Zihark.

That's assuming (1) someone even wants to support Meg, whose Heaven affinity isn't helping anyone, and (2) that she's somehow promoting before part 1 ends, which I'm not seeing happening between her bad bases, her awkward growths, her bad movement, and the fact that she has the dubious honor of being the one unit who's farthest from promotion. Also, 3-6 isn't the type of chapter I'd want to fish for critical hits in (never mind that fishing for critical hits is a subpar strategy in RD thanks to sky high enemy luck).

The other unit doesn't have to be active to be a support-bot so this is an irrelevant argument, besides there's Laura who doesn't care about who she supports. Meg's heaven affinity is not the best but it helps her own hit rates. 

Her promotion is easily achievable in Normal Mode, and definitely possible in hard mode. 

4 hours ago, Florete said:

I'm not sure why people keep harping on this "Meg has good bases for her level" stuff. True or not, it doesn't mean anything.

It's honestly kind of shocking to see all this defense in favor of Meg. She never got any help back in the day. Now I'll admit I might have overrated Aran a bit with my 7.5, by like 0.5-1, but he's still pretty far ahead of Meg as I mentioned here. He has a bit of a rough time getting started in hard mode, but he can be a good defensive and hard-hitting crutch come part 3. In normal mode he just blows past Meg with BEXP. The best Meg ever gets is "okay." Going from "pretty bad" to "okay" deserves a pretty low score.

There's a big performance difference between someone like Lyre/Fiona and Meg, which is why I agree with the others that she's underrated. She's not actually "pretty bad" she's more like a mediocre unit just like Aran.

Edited January 27, 2017 by Sweet_Basil

[Shadow Mir]

2 hours ago, Sweet_Basil said:

The point is that they aren't terrible because they're easily salvageable. Her movement is about the only thing I find reasonable against her and even I find it exaggerated as an argument against her because enemies are always accessible in every map in Part 1 save for 1-6-1 and even there the majority of the exp is in the Mid area because the only one that can get safely to the left side is either Sothe or a dropped Tauro..
 

The other unit doesn't have to be active to be a support-bot so this is an irrelevant argument, besides there's Laura who doesn't care about who she supports. Meg's heaven affinity is not the best but it helps her own hit rates. 

Her promotion is easily achievable in Normal Mode, and definitely possible in hard mode. 

There's a big performance difference between someone like Lyre/Fiona and Meg, which is why I agree with the others that she's underrated. She's not actually "pretty bad" she's more like a mediocre unit just like Aran.

Likewise, I think you're downplaying how much of a hindrance Meg's movement really is - in cases where my best way to win is to secure a certain area (see: chapter 1-5, chapter 1-6-2), Meg's likely to get there last. And even outside that, more movement tends to allow better positioning.

Maybe, but Laura has an affinity that pairs well with other affinities that give evade; Meg has no such luck.

How so? She comes in at level 3 on the 5th of about 12 part 1 maps. I'm not seeing her promoting before part 1 ends unless she gets something preposterous like 3 levels a map or something.

I don't know what standards you have that Meg can somehow be "mediocre", but if I thought she was mediocre, which I don't, I wouldn't have given her a zero. Hell, most of the ratings I'd give to someone I'd consider mediocre are ratings I see as too high for Meg to get in the face of everything she has going against her.

Edited January 27, 2017 by Levant Mir Celestia

[Ema Skye]

Aran is a mediocre unit? That's a first.

He's one of the most valuable foot units for the DBs. I would actually rank him over Zihark, as Swords are the worst weapon type in the game due to a lack of forgable 1-2 range.

If we're comparing him to Meg of all unholy units, Aran's bases win or tie with Meg in everything except Magic (LOL) and Res (for the 10 mages you fight as the DB). Aran has decisive Speed, HP, Defense and Movement advantages over Meg, and they tie in the Strength. Not to mention that like Aran, Meg gets doubled by the tigers in her join map. If Aran is "mediocre", so are half of the characters in this game.

If we want to talk growths, Aran's are still preferable. Meg wins speed, but Aran's growths make him a prime BEXP candidate, especially with how much BEXP the DBs get. Second tier Aran fixes all of his problems with BEXP, as once he hits Lv8, he's basically guaranteed speed (as Str/Skl/Def are capped). This isn't true for Meg, due to her caps. She's never in a prime position for BEXP to fix her problems, because her Strength growth is her second lowest growth (it beats Magic). Yes, Meg might double stuff. But her damage output makes her THE WEAKEST of the DB units when it comes to damage output, as she has the LOWEST attack growth and uses the WEAKEST weapons. Sure Meg might be better than Fiona or Lyre, but that's honestly not a compliment. It's like giving her a free pass because she's not total garbage, even though she's almost there. AND she always has to face counter attacks unless she decides to use a Wind Edge, which is a joke of a weapon (6 MT / 60 hit and unforgable is awful).

"Meg's bases are bad because she joins late". She joins in the fifth map in a 50 map game! That's hardly late. 

"But Meg joins at Level 3, so she's not bad" Yeah sure, whatever. Any increased EXP she gets is honestly not noticeable, and we don't have a calculation to show just how much of an EXP gain she actually has. Not to mention all it does is make it more difficult to promote her, because she has so much EXP to gain. I still haven't seen anyone refute this argument.

Yeah, if we're going to play the "Meg would be good if she joined earlier" argument, I'd like to suggest that Fiona would be much better if every map she was in didn't throw a middle finger at her horse. Then she'd actually be worth using, as mounted units are (surprise) really good in this game. Or, let's have Fiona join in Nolan's spot. Suddenly she's just as redeemable as this theorcrafted Meg.

Like are we actually still having Meg debates in 2017? I thought for sure the last tier list made it abundantly clear that she was like the third/fourth worst unit in the game.

[Florete]

2 hours ago, Ema Skye said:

Like are we actually still having Meg debates in 2017? I thought for sure the last tier list made it abundantly clear that she was like the third/fourth worst unit in the game.

To be fair, the last tier list that isn't this one is pretty outdated.

[Samias]

Still, there hasn't been some sudden revelation of new strats that incorporate a trained Meg into the equation. Personally I don't see Aran as being particularly good either, but at least he has nearly uncontested lance access, high hit, and high defense when those are things the DB team is lacking. Meg has... Luck. She joins early enough that you can try training her, but her hit rate and strength is like watching her try to poke her way out of a wet paper bag to start out. She is an investment who doesn't pay out for nearly the entire game because her offense lags behind with weak weapons and an inability to double.

Saying Meg is statistically the best armor knight is also a straight up lie. Gatrie is just as good, if not better since he gets to SS rank in lances and gets more secondary weapon ranks for free. Meg gets an pointless extra point of speed cap that still doesn't meet the doubling threshold for the fastest spirits. Meanwhile Gatrie basically always has at least 2 attack over Meg.

If you want to use a good armor knight on the DBs, Tauroneo doesn't even need training...

[MisterIceTeaPeach]

Seriously Aran in hard mode stinks almost as much as Meg does.

He's okay - not great - in 1-3 because he can take two steel lances and bows.

He starts with weapon level D which is not great. For 1-4 you will have money only for one forged weapon unless you sell several skills. Nolan defenitely needs a forged weapon more to prevent speed penalty and simply because he has higher potential than Aran in the longrun and needs levels earlier. Aran will stuck with the iron lance and does only little damage to the Laguz. Javelins are worse than hand axes, so saying he's a good range weapon user in invalid. Even Leo is better in this than him.

In 1-4 each opponent can oneshot him with a crit. At least his base speed is high enough not to get doubled by any tigers aside of Agony.

In the entire game you'll have to worry about his speed that he doesn't get doubled. His high defense is worthless, if an opponent doubles him. Another problem is that he will get no personal weapon in part 3 which automatically makes my decision to go for Leonardo instead of Aran in HM because at least in part 3 Leo has his uses for being the only range weapon user in the DB (Micaiah will mainly heal). Since HM forces you to focus on very few units there's actually no room for Aran... at least for me. 

 

He's fine in NM, and ok in HM in the chapters you can bring him, but other units turn out more useful in HM.

[Dark Holy Elf]

1 hour ago, Ema Skye said:

Yes, Meg might double stuff. But her damage output makes her THE WEAKEST of the DB units when it comes to damage output, as she has the LOWEST attack growth and uses the WEAKEST weapons.

But her base attack for her level is very high, offsetting the growth. To illustrate: Meg has more Str than Edward until Level ~17 (then catches up again for a bit with a superior promo bonus), and more Str than Leonardo forever. She's also generally comparable to Jill even spotting Jill an effective +2 for axes. If Meg is doubling, and that's admittedly a significant "if", then her offence is fine.

1 hour ago, Ema Skye said:

Any increased EXP she gets is honestly not noticeable, and we don't have a calculation to show just how much of an EXP gain she actually has. Not to mention all it does is make it more difficult to promote her, because she has so much EXP to gain. I still haven't seen anyone refute this argument

As a Level 3 unit, she gains over 2x what your other units do from bonus exp, which is absolutely noticeable. Moreso on NM, I'll grant, when you have more to work with. I generally think that the differences between NM and HM are significantly overblown (outside of HM's awful design decisions) but Meg is actually more affected than most, both due to this factor and due to 1-4's tigers hitting a bad speed benchmark for her on HM. (To be clear 1-4 is easy so you can certainly still train her on HM, but it does require more effort/less efficiency.)

[Ema Skye]

4 hours ago, Eleanor Hume said:

Seriously Aran in hard mode stinks almost as much as Meg does.

He's okay - not great - in 1-3 because he can take two steel lances and bows.

He starts with weapon level D which is not great. For 1-4 you will have money only for one forged weapon unless you sell several skills. Nolan defenitely needs a forged weapon more to prevent speed penalty and simply because he has higher potential than Aran in the longrun and needs levels earlier. Aran will stuck with the iron lance and does only little damage to the Laguz. Javelins are worse than hand axes, so saying he's a good range weapon user in invalid. Even Leo is better in this than him.

In 1-4 each opponent can oneshot him with a crit. At least his base speed is high enough not to get doubled by any tigers aside of Agony.

In the entire game you'll have to worry about his speed that he doesn't get doubled. His high defense is worthless, if an opponent doubles him. Another problem is that he will get no personal weapon in part 3 which automatically makes my decision to go for Leonardo instead of Aran in HM because at least in part 3 Leo has his uses for being the only range weapon user in the DB (Micaiah will mainly heal). Since HM forces you to focus on very few units there's actually no room for Aran... at least for me. 

 

He's fine in NM, and ok in HM in the chapters you can bring him, but other units turn out more useful in HM.

Javelin's may not be ideal but a) they're forgeable later on and b) they're still better than Wind Edges.

Leo isn't even comparable and I don't know why you're forcing this comparison. Aran is a melee unit first and foremost, while leaving Leo on the front lines is just begging for him to get killed.

If we're worried about single digit crit on a unit, I feel like there are better things to worry about. Most of our units are facing single digit crit in this chapter. It's not a big deal.

If not having a personal weapon in Part 3 makes a unit bad (which it shouldn't), then you should be penalizing the rest of the DB for it, including Jill.

You're overblowing the speed problem. Even if he does get doubled, he's still taking decently low damage because his defense is so high. Comparing 20/3 Aran and 20/3 Meg in 3-6 here:

Meg: 35 HP/18 Str/5 Mag/15 Skl/21 Spe/20 Lck/18 Def/13 Res

Aran: 33 HP/22 Str/3 Mag/22 Skl/16 Spe/11 Lck/22 Def/7 Res

Tigers range from 16 to 18 AS in 3-6 and have between 32 and 41 Attack. So Aran takes 10 to 19 damage. Meg takes 14 to 23 damage.

Cats range from 20 to 22 AS and have 22 to 29 Attack. Aran gets doubled and takes between 0 and 14 damage. Meg takes 4 to 11 damage. So while Aran is doubled here, he's still, on average, taking less damage than Meg.

I feel like we've established at this point that Meg only gets good (relatively speaking) if we're babying her.

[Dunal]

5 hours ago, Ema Skye said:

Meg: 35 HP/18 Str/5 Mag/15 Skl/21 Spe/20 Lck/18 Def/13 Res

Aran: 33 HP/22 Str/3 Mag/22 Skl/16 Spe/11 Lck/22 Def/7 Res

Tigers range from 16 to 18 AS in 3-6 and have between 32 and 41 Attack. So Aran takes 10 to 19 damage. Meg takes 14 to 23 damage.

You're neglecting the fact that Meg has 20 more AVO than Aran which is the difference between ~75% hit for Aran (83% true hit) and ~55% for Meg (58% true hit).

Meg's dodging an extra hit per phase.

The gap widens more when supports are applied. Extra evasion becomes more powerful the lower your previous evasion was. This does matter a lot when Meg can actually kill things with the Brave/Killer sword. While Aran cannot kill anything in 1 round. 

 

Meg's mid/late game isn't an issue at all. As much as people like to overstate her growths/cap issue -- statistically it's not really that much of a big deal (someone like Nolan needs to be 20/10 to reach Meg's "awful" speed cap in tier 2). She is more reliant on BEXP fill out other stats a bit though -- but her caps does make this easier to take advantage of.

Still, she has a bad start and her movement (and affinity) does her no favours. So that's why she's no more than a 3 or 3.5. But she's not quite as bad/awful as people like to say. And she certainly should not be grouped with Fiona/Lyre (which is what you're implying by completely disregarding the positive aspects about her). 

I mean despite the above, Aran is still quite a bit better because he has a lot less opportunity cost. And uses stat boosters like Dracoshield better than almost anyone (should you decide to use him). And forged Javelins etc etc...

 

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Like are we actually still having Meg debates in 2017? I thought for sure the last tier list made it abundantly clear that she was like the third/fourth worst unit in the game.

I don't think anyone is denying she is? (Although I'd put her 5th worst above Astrid and Gareth).

Main point is that she isn't flat out terrible and shouldn't be grouped with the certain couple units below her.

Edited January 27, 2017 by DLuna

[Shadow Mir]

20 minutes ago, DLuna said:

You're neglecting the fact that Meg has 20 more AVO than Aran which is the difference between ~75% hit for Aran (83% true hit) and ~55% for Meg (58% true hit).

Meg's dodging an extra hit per phase.

The gap widens more when supports are applied. Extra evasion becomes more powerful the lower your previous evasion was. This does matter a lot when Meg can actually kill things with the Brave/Killer sword. While Aran cannot kill anything in 1 round. 

Yeah, because it ain't like biorhythm is a thing and can screw you. Also, this is one of those instances where one-rounding can be a BAD thing.

[Dunal]

2 minutes ago, Levant Mir Celestia said:

Yeah, because it ain't like biorhythm is a thing and can screw you.

How is this specific to Meg?

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Also, this is one of those instances where one-rounding can be a BAD thing.

How is this specific to Meg? She's not exactly any less tanky than others who can 'one-round'.

If it really matters, she can kill someone on Player phase w/ killing/brave and then someone can trade with her to make her equip a steel or something (yay Fiona is useful). But the same can be said for other units so...?

[Shadow Mir]

13 minutes ago, DLuna said:

How is this specific to Meg?

How is this specific to Meg? She's not exactly any less tanky than others who can 'one-round'.

If it really matters, she can kill someone on Player phase w/ killing/brave and then someone can trade with her to make her equip a steel or something (yay Fiona is useful). But the same can be said for other units so...?

It isn't, but you seem to be willing to put so much stock in the merits of evade, so...

Once again, it isn't, but I feel it's especially bad here to be making room for more enemies to attack (this was why I stated that part 3 sucks for Zihark earlier). Also, I doubt Meg's one-rounding tigers with the brave or a killer (which isn't that great thanks to sky high enemy luck; I'd rather use a steel heavy or something) anyhow.

Edited January 27, 2017 by Levant Mir Celestia

[Florete]

39 minutes ago, DLuna said:

Still, she has a bad start and her movement (and affinity) does her no favours. So that's why she's no more than a 3 or 3.5. But she's not quite as bad/awful as people like to say. And she certainly should not be grouped with Fiona/Lyre (which is what you're implying by completely disregarding the positive aspects about her).

Lyre is worthless, but as far as Fiona, I'd rather go with her. She has a worse start, requires more investment, but at least in the end I get something worthwhile because she's actually in a good class. Whether or not you think that's better depends on your values, but it's why I rated Fiona higher than Meg.

[Dunal]

23 minutes ago, Levant Mir Celestia said:

It isn't, but you seem to be willing to put so much stock in the merits of evade, so...

Let's not pretend for a second that Biorhythm is all that meaningful. And for every time it's lowering avoid it's also increasing avoid. It's not exactly something strictly against the player.

In the circumstance that it's increasing the players avoid, it benefits Meg more than say, Aran. And in the circumstance that it's lowering avoid -- it's negating Aran's small chance to avoid while Meg is still dodging 1 in 3 attacks without supports.

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Once again, it isn't, but I feel it's especially bad here to be making room for more enemies to attack (this was why I stated that part 3 sucks for Zihark earlier). Also, I doubt Meg's one-rounding tigers with the brave or a killer (which isn't that great thanks to sky high enemy luck) anyhow.

Correction: Meg is killing with the Brave only with the energy drop or a +ATK support. 

Tigers... have 6 luck. She has a 33% crit rate against them. And if anything, not guaranteeing a kill is a point in her favour considering the apparent importance of not letting enemies flood you.

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(this was why I stated that part 3 sucks for Zihark earlier).

I don't think this is relevant to Zihark since with Earth/Earth he only has 20% true hit rates against him. No amount of 'biorhythm' or attacks taken will leave him to die unless you're extremely unlucky. He on average dies in roughly 10 attacks.

That's kinda why he's high tier.

 

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Lyre is worthless, but as far as Fiona, I'd rather go with her. She has a worse start, requires more investment, but at least in the end I get something worthwhile because she's actually in a good class. Whether or not you think that's better depends on your values, but it's why I rated Fiona higher than Meg.

Early/mid game is more difficult than late game. That's why Meg usability in late part 1 or part 3 matters a lot more. 

It's not like Fiona is that much better than Meg late game either. Part 3 & 4's map design can often penalize cavalry just as hard as armors. And stat-wise.. Meg is argubaly at least on-par. +7 HP/DEF, +5 RES and +3 STR. Fiona has 3 SPD which definitely matters but it's arguable as to which is better as it depends on circumstance. And that's disregarding the fact that Meg will always have a level lead over Fiona.

Fiona does have earth support and free Imbue. That overall makes her better but not really to a substantial degree at all.

Edited January 27, 2017 by DLuna

[Shadow Mir]

39 minutes ago, DLuna said:

Let's not pretend for a second that Biorhythm is all that meaningful. And for every time it's lowering avoid it's also increasing avoid. It's not exactly something strictly against the player.

In the circumstance that it's increasing the players avoid, it benefits Meg more than say, Aran. And in the circumstance that it's lowering avoid -- it's negating Aran's small chance to avoid while Meg is still dodging 1 in 3 attacks without supports.

Correction: Meg is killing with the Brave only with the energy drop or a +ATK support. 

Tigers... have 6 luck. She has a 33% crit rate against them. And if anything, not guaranteeing a kill is a point in her favour considering the apparent importance of not letting enemies flood you.

I don't think this is relevant to Zihark since with Earth/Earth he only has 20% true hit rates against him. No amount of 'biorhythm' or attacks taken will leave him to die unless you're extremely unlucky. He on average dies in roughly 10 attacks.

That's kinda why he's high tier.

Well, it is something that works for both sides and must be taken into account...

Which begs the question: Who in the Dawn Brigade wants to support Meg??? 

No she doesn't, not without being stupidly overleveled. Also, given the power gap between the killing edge and a steel blade, I'd say my choice of weapon is obvious, and it isn't the one with 8 might.

Just how quickly are you expecting to get Zihark to A rank support??

49 minutes ago, DLuna said:

And that's disregarding the fact that Meg will always have a level lead over Fiona.

That's assuming that Meg gets like 2 levels a map or something - an unreasonable assumption, that.

[Florete]

1 hour ago, DLuna said:

Early/mid game is more difficult than late game. That's why Meg usability in late part 1 or part 3 matters a lot more. 

It's not like Fiona is that much better than Meg late game either. Part 3 & 4's map design can often penalize cavalry just as hard as armors. And stat-wise.. Meg is argubaly at least on-par. +7 HP/DEF, +5 RES and +3 STR. Fiona has 3 SPD which definitely matters but it's arguable as to which is better as it depends on circumstance. And that's disregarding the fact that Meg will always have a level lead over Fiona.

Fiona does have earth support and free Imbue. That overall makes her better but not really to a substantial degree at all.

Meg is still only okay at best in late part 1 and part 3, though. Fiona might be okay by part 3 depending on how much investment you actually put in, and what difficulty you're on. In normal I'd argue Fiona is clearly - if not by much - better than Meg because BEXP is plentiful enough to get Fiona out of her rut fast enough to start doing things, but my position overall applies to hard as well.

For what it's worth, I only gave Fiona 0.5 more than Meg (2.5 vs 2.0), so it's not a substantial degree. Either way, the point I was responding to was that Meg is certainly not a lot better than Fiona to the point where she deserves to be ranked much higher, if at all.

[Sweet_Basil]

36 minutes ago, Levant Mir Celestia said:

Well, it is something that works for both sides and must be taken into account...

Which begs the question: Who in the Dawn Brigade wants to support Meg??? 

No she doesn't, not without being stupidly overleveled. Also, given the power gap between the killing edge and a steel blade, I'd say my choice of weapon is obvious, and it isn't the one with 8 might.

Just how quickly are you expecting to get Zihark to A rank support??

That's assuming that Meg gets like 2 levels a map or something - an unreasonable assumption, that.

I think that depends if you're 2 turning 1-6-2 or not because 1-4 and 1-5 have a lot of experience and easy to lure boss kills.

 

[Shadow Mir]

50 minutes ago, Sweet_Basil said:

I think that depends if you're 2 turning 1-6-2 or not because 1-4 and 1-5 have a lot of experience and easy to lure boss kills.

 

1-5 is timed, and has that aforementioned nuance about Meg being last to get to the position I need to secure to get the thumbs up because of her awful move. And even if I wasn't 2 turning 1-6-2, I can't afford to dilly-dally - I need to frag Fiona's pursuers and secure the bridges, which means my front positions are going to units that can do this effectively (aka, not Meg).

[Sweet_Basil]

1 hour ago, Levant Mir Celestia said:

1-5 is timed, and has that aforementioned nuance about Meg being last to get to the position I need to secure to get the thumbs up because of her awful move. And even if I wasn't 2 turning 1-6-2, I can't afford to dilly-dally - I need to frag Fiona's pursuers and secure the bridges, which means my front positions are going to units that can do this effectively (aka, not Meg).

Sothe/Volug/Tauroneo are already forced set deployment everyone is just self-improving. Have you ever used Meg? You questioned if she can reach Fiona's level by the time she gets there so I'm just answering back that I believe she can with the only doubt being 1-6-2. Btw the 1-5 area is cleared on turn 1 by Sothe, anyone else can climb that ledge by turn 2 including Meg, it's all about positioning I'm not sure where you're getting the idea that she's getting there last. 

Edited January 28, 2017 by Sweet_Basil

[Junkhead]

On 23/1/2017 at 5:06 AM, Eleanor Hume said:

Sanaki has a really rough start.

Resolve+Daunt

Boom.

inb4buttomeweight just get her a lightly-forged tome

inb4butmoney, money issues in Part 4? Get real.

inb4buteverybodywantsresolve, theres two fucking Resolve and everybodys too fucking good to want/need it

 

[Shadow Mir]

1 hour ago, Sweet_Basil said:

Sothe/Volug/Tauroneo are already forced set deployment everyone is just self-improving. Have you ever used Meg? You questioned if she can reach Fiona's level by the time she gets there so I'm just answering back that I believe she can with the only doubt being 1-6-2. Btw the 1-5 area is cleared on turn 1 by Sothe, anyone else can climb that ledge by turn 2 including Meg, it's all about positioning I'm not sure where you're getting the idea that she's getting there last. 

Because you've been trying to sweep the fact that Meg's movement is a hindrance under the rug. You'd have realized what I was getting at if you did your homework, but I guess I gotta spell it out. Meg takes more movement penalties than other units. This is especially apparent with ledges - she'd need to be right next to a ledge to get to the high ground.

[Junkhead]

its hardly been a problem in my LTC

woo, 1 less move 

[-Cynthia-]

I agree that Meg is not *that* much worse than Aran, but I think it ultimately boils to Aran being a pretty bad unit on HM. His bases aren't good for his join time (2HKOd by everything. 3HKOing non-mages at best back) and he'll never double anything (maybe with Resolve?) They're both possible to train yeah, but they aren't 'worth it' unless you're restricting unit selection a lot.

[Junkhead]

Aran is more likely to borderline get away being doubled than ever doing so himself.

[Sweet_Basil]

31 minutes ago, Levant Mir Celestia said:

Because you've been trying to sweep the fact that Meg's movement is a hindrance under the rug. You'd have realized what I was getting at if you did your homework, but I guess I gotta spell it out. Meg takes more movement penalties than other units. This is especially apparent with ledges - she'd need to be right next to a ledge to get to the high ground.

Done on turn 1.
Turn 2 climb the ledge.
Turn 3 milk the experience from the other ledge until the end of the map.

Her movement issues are more apparent on other maps though I agree with that.