Young Marriage

[Shin]

Actually, I wasn't talking about the service. Yes, the service has been bad.

But in terms of what medicine and treatments we have available, I don't think any other country is on par. For example, we had the least number of ebola and swine flu deaths of anybody when they had epidemics, probably by a lot. We just have the best medicine and treatment tech.

Healthcare isn't just about what medication and treatments are available, it's about it being utilised and people being managed to prevent and manage disease. Also, it'd be worth checking facts before making claims like that. The US had its fair share of swine flu deaths. The spread of Ebola outside West Africa wasn't particularly substantial and not really representative of internal healthcare, but the US had two documented deaths from Ebola and a fair few number of resolved cases. Things like these aren't too hard to read up on!

The US puts out the most research by a fair margin, but that's part of the advantage of being one of the largest countries in the western world.

[Res]

Uh, no, someone, I believe it was Res, was saying earlier that European doctors don't require anything more than high school education to get into med school, but that this doesn't make them inferior to US doctors. But from what you posted, it looks like it does make them inferior.

No, it's not that simple. You have to factor in: way cases are reported, how cases are diagnosed, the drugs/treatments available, whether experimental drugs/treatments were offered, etc.

You mentioned Ebola and Swine Flu:

The U.S. had 4 confirmed Ebola cases and 1 death; the UK had 1 confirmed Ebola case (no deaths).

3% of people who contracted swine flu in the U.S. in the '09 epidemic died. 1.6% of people who contracted swine flu in the UK in the '09 epidemic died.

[Rezzy]

Maybe we should open a thread about healthcare, we've deviated a bit from the original discussion.

[___]

On the topic of marriage, assuming that's still a relevant point of discussion, I do think later is better than earlier. I understand that physiologically speaking humans are able to have sex and get pregnant pretty early in their lives, but speaking about a person's development, I think the best age for marriage is the mid-20s onwards. The reason for me saying so is that you need to be able to mature mentally to a point where you are fully conscious of who you are, where you live, what the world is like, and what you want to be (doesn't need to be so inclusive, but I think the more the better). You may find some people who are very mature at a young age in their mid to late teens and who may be able to have a successful or stable marriage, but there's no doubt you can just as easily if not more so find a person who isn't quite mature at a point when they're in their 30's or later; I've seen plenty examples of it. I think that the reason we see many marriages fail here in the US is because people in those marriages aren't mentally prepared for it, and when they faced with the reality and the challenges of marriage, they can't or would rather not deal with the issues. So I think marrying in your 20s gives a person the most time to develop mentally. All of this ignores culture though, and culture is a huge factor into how a marriage plays out.

[Phoenix Wright]

For requiring a Bachelor's Degree, that means that to be a practicing doctor, you will be a minimum of 29 years old. To contrast, you can be a member of the House of Representatives at age 25. So it takes a lower level of mental maturity for running the government than it does for caring for the sick and injured.

this is similar for nearly any job in research. in physics, chemistry, biology, etc. you're undergrad, then grad, then post-doc, then perhaps even more things before you're a professor or researcher at some firm or government institution. research is one of the most demanding career paths. and even then, most of us don't make as much as our education should allow us to.

and i agree, to be a doctor, i think it does require more skills than it does to run government. what a rep spends most of their time doing is fundraising. of course, this is simplified, but the nuances aren't important atm. i could go into it if necessary.

There would still be plenty of people who went for associate or bachelors degrees before med school, but for people who knew what they wanted, going straight from high school could be an option. I graduated Summa Cum Laude and am a member of Phi Beta Kappa, but really, undergrad was just an unnecessary step towards my true goal.

you've already established you're far from the norm. therefore attempting to make yourself the "average" and making an argument from it is off the mark.

Another problem is that often you tailor for bach degree towards med school, and if you don't get into med school, you're left to try to figure out what to do with your degree. If you applied out of high school, you could at least go with your back up plan sooner and maybe get a different degree, if one at all.

out of american high school? nah. i would agree if you replaced high school with community college.

but this is a huge problem across nearly all majors. it's difficult to know what you want and to know if you're gonna make it.

[Res]

On the topic of marriage, assuming that's still a relevant point of discussion, I do think later is better than earlier. I understand that physiologically speaking humans are able to have sex and get pregnant pretty early in their lives, but speaking about a person's development, I think the best age for marriage is the mid-20s onwards. The reason for me saying so is that you need to be able to mature mentally to a point where you are fully conscious of who you are, where you live, what the world is like, and what you want to be (doesn't need to be so inclusive, but I think the more the better). You may find some people who are very mature at a young age in their mid to late teens and who may be able to have a successful or stable marriage, but there's no doubt you can just as easily if not more so find a person who isn't quite mature at a point when they're in their 30's or later; I've seen plenty examples of it. I think that the reason we see many marriages fail here in the US is because people in those marriages aren't mentally prepared for it, and when they faced with the reality and the challenges of marriage, they can't or would rather not deal with the issues. So I think marrying in your 20s gives a person the most time to develop mentally. All of this ignores culture though, and culture is a huge factor into how a marriage plays out.

Personality is also a huge factor! Regardless of maturity, some people just never seem (or feel themselves) suited to marriage, while others have very successful marriages at a young age.

I've also witnessed people being unable to really find themselves/mature until they're in a relationship; they have more of a dependent personality - not necessarily in a bad way; dependence and independence aren't in and of themselves good or bad.

[Rezzy]

this is similar for nearly any job in research. in physics, chemistry, biology, etc. you're undergrad, then grad, then post-doc, then perhaps even more things before you're a professor or researcher at some firm or government institution. research is one of the most demanding career paths. and even then, most of us don't make as much as our education should allow us to.

and i agree, to be a doctor, i think it does require more skills than it does to run government. what a rep spends most of their time doing is fundraising. of course, this is simplified, but the nuances aren't important atm. i could go into it if necessary.

you've already established you're far from the norm. therefore attempting to make yourself the "average" and making an argument from it is off the mark.

out of american high school? nah. i would agree if you replaced high school with community college.

but this is a huge problem across nearly all majors. it's difficult to know what you want and to know if you're gonna make it.

The ones running government are the ones who makes the rules about how I have to do my job. Maybe that's why it's such a mess right now.

I'm not saying that only high school kids should be able to apply to med school, but some should. Not every high school would make you ready enough, but some are pretty good. I got an academic scholarship for high school, and I had almost a year of AP credits before undergrad, and feel I would have been ready for med school back then. Those not ready could still pursue an associates or bachelors degree before applying.

I just think that requiring a bachelors degree first is unnecessary, and it looks like plenty of other countries do just fine without it. There's still at least 7 years of training after undergrad, often more before you can practice as a doctor, and I don't think reading Shakespeare really adds anything meaningful to a doctor's skill set and just delays their entry into the work force. If an 18 year old shows the ability, I see no reason why they can't be fast-tracked towards their MD, DO, DPM, or DMD. I know their are some pharmacy programs you can go to straight out of high school.

[Augestein]

The ones running government are the ones who makes the rules about how I have to do my job. Maybe that's why it's such a mess right now.

I'm not saying that only high school kids should be able to apply to med school, but some should. Not every high school would make you ready enough, but some are pretty good. I got an academic scholarship for high school, and I had almost a year of AP credits before undergrad, and feel I would have been ready for med school back then. Those not ready could still pursue an associates or bachelors degree before applying.

I just think that requiring a bachelors degree first is unnecessary, and it looks like plenty of other countries do just fine without it. There's still at least 7 years of training after undergrad, often more before you can practice as a doctor, and I don't think reading Shakespeare really adds anything meaningful to a doctor's skill set and just delays their entry into the work force. If an 18 year old shows the ability, I see no reason why they can't be fast-tracked towards their MD, DO, DPM, or DMD. I know their are some pharmacy programs you can go to straight out of high school.

Agreed. Though to be fair, it seems to be becoming more commonplace. My high school actually had a program that was meant to help you become a medical doctor sooner rather than later. I remember running into a couple of students involved in it because I was an honors student.

I also agree with this as well. It'd definitely leave less time where the student is doing unrelated subjects.

[Jotari]

Like I said in my edited message, America ranks fifth.

So, I don't really want to continue to derail the topic but I have to point out that you're reading those stats wrong. America comes fifth specifically regarding Bowel Cancer. They're first for breast cancer while their 19th for cervical cancer. And then range from 16th to 4th with Heart Attacks and strokes. All in all given how many other types of cancers and debilitating illness there are, it's not really a great metric to measure things. The countries are also jumping around quite a lot. Like South Korea is in the top 3 in all but two categories there's 12th in Breast Cancer and 27th! in Heart Attacks. I'm trying to look for some trend but no country seems to be consistently high in every category. The only thing it really shows is where the country's priority lies.

Edited December 23, 2016 by Jotari

[Anacybele]

Well, I totally read that wrong too. xP

But yeah, I didn't want to derail the topic further myself which is why I didn't respond before.

[Phoenix Wright]

The ones running government are the ones who makes the rules about how I have to do my job. Maybe that's why it's such a mess right now.

I'm not saying that only high school kids should be able to apply to med school, but some should. Not every high school would make you ready enough, but some are pretty good. I got an academic scholarship for high school, and I had almost a year of AP credits before undergrad, and feel I would have been ready for med school back then. Those not ready could still pursue an associates or bachelors degree before applying.

I just think that requiring a bachelors degree first is unnecessary, and it looks like plenty of other countries do just fine without it. There's still at least 7 years of training after undergrad, often more before you can practice as a doctor, and I don't think reading Shakespeare really adds anything meaningful to a doctor's skill set and just delays their entry into the work force. If an 18 year old shows the ability, I see no reason why they can't be fast-tracked towards their MD, DO, DPM, or DMD. I know their are some pharmacy programs you can go to straight out of high school.

indeed. we've had this conversation before, actually. we need more variety in congress because they make laws about shit they know nothing about.

you'd have to make it so that everyone could apply straight outta highschool, not just select schools. i don't think that would work, but i do agree that requiring a bachelor's is unnecessary.

[Tetragrammaton]

Did you read the post above that one at all? It mentions things like unmarried girls in their 20s and 30s being problems while they're not problems here and such. :/

Well, it's just your point of view.

From their point of view, you do have other serious problems, i.e. LGBT is considered a dangerous sickness.

[Thane]

So, I don't really want to continue to derail the topic but I have to point out that you're reading those stats wrong. America comes fifth specifically regarding Bowel Cancer. They're first for breast cancer while their 19th for cervical cancer. And then range from 16th to 4th with Heart Attacks and strokes. All in all given how many other types of cancers and debilitating illness there are, it's not really a great metric to measure things. The countries are also jumping around quite a lot. Like South Korea is in the top 3 in all but two categories there's 12th in Breast Cancer and 27th! in Heart Attacks. I'm trying to look for some trend but no country seems to be consistently high in every category. The only thing it really shows is where the country's priority lies.

Yes, so it would seem. How embarrassing. I'm very sorry for having misread facts I myself presented in a discussion. I apologize.

[Excellen Browning]

Yes, so it would seem. How embarrassing. I'm very sorry for having misread facts I myself presented in a discussion. I apologize.

Unironically Serious Discussion Post Of The Year. Others, myself included, have much to learn from your example.

[Anacybele]

LGBT is considered a dangerous sickness.

Nope. If you haven't noticed, LGBT+ rights and all are gradually being more and more accepted. Our laws allow gay marriage and it's obviously illegal to kill or attack these people. Some super idiotic Christian people may still hate/be against LGBT+, but the majority of people in this country now accept them. Just look at the backlash that that bathroom law had in states like NC. This was probably the reason Pat McCrory was voted out of Governor, actually... I liked him though. I thought accepting that law was the only thing he did wrong.

[Jotari]

Nope. If you haven't noticed, LGBT+ rights and all are gradually being more and more accepted. Our laws allow gay marriage and it's obviously illegal to kill or attack these people. Some super idiotic Christian people may still hate/be against LGBT+, but the majority of people in this country now accept them. Just look at the backlash that that bathroom law had in states like NC. This was probably the reason Pat McCrory was voted out of Governor, actually... I liked him though. I thought accepting that law was the only thing he did wrong.

That's not what hanhnn was saying. He's saying that the West's support of LGBT rights is considered a problem from the perspective of the middle east as tehy view it as a sickness. At least I think that's what he meant.

[Anacybele]

That's not what hanhnn was saying. He's saying that the West's support of LGBT rights is considered a problem from the perspective of the middle east as tehy view it as a sickness. At least I think that's what he meant.

Oh, I misunderstood if that's the case then. Geez, it feels more like some of the east is behind the times at this point. :/

[Excellen Browning]

Geez, it feels more like some of the east is behind the times at this point. :/

Yeap.

[Flee Fleet!]

Oh, I misunderstood if that's the case then. Geez, it feels more like some of the east is behind the times at this point. :/

Yep, totally agree. Don't forget about the transgenders receiving hate as well (at least they're fighting for their rights in my country and Bangladesh, iirc)

[Rezzy]

Yep, totally agree. Don't forget about the transgenders receiving hate as well (at least they're fighting for their rights in my country and Bangladesh, iirc)

What country do you live in? Not to be nosy, but it gives me a better idea of what situation you're referring to.

[Flee Fleet!]

^Pakistan.

[Lord Raven]

How do you feel about Pakistan compared to the Middle East in terms of actually being modern? I know that there's Taliban at the northwest border but based on my parents' trips there they've been kind of amused that it feels more western there than they were expecting. Or maybe it's a village/city divide type of thing.

EDIT: would like to point out that westernized immigrants don't believe in young marriage but it seems like a lot of the people from the city in Pakistan don't either

Edited December 23, 2016 by Lord Raven

[Flee Fleet!]

^I've only really lived in the Punjab area, and currently in the Sindh area. However, I live in a community, so I haven't experienced much of the city life.

But, I'll guarantee we're more modern than the Middle East: Even the poorer people keep a cell phone with them (not to sound offensive). And most people discuss the latest news and that sort of stuff, you get what I mean. But villages are also present, although I'm not sure of how many there are currently.

Also, yes a lot of Pakistanis don't believe in young marriage, but unfortunately its a problem (along with forced marriages) in the poorer communities . It's either because of drunken men, men who prefer sons and give their daughters away (this is something I hate a LOT), or rich guys who got some corrupted police on their side, threatening others when they want to . Yeah....it's mainly the men that are an issue, but gladly it's not a thing in the cities.

[Excellen Browning]

If having a cellphone and radio or tv is your standard, these are commonplace in at least the urban areas in the Middle East. And the world in general.

[Jotari]

To make a broad sweeping statement, if you're discussing things in English on an internet forum for a Japanese video game, then you probably grew up in a pretty westernised area.