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Pokemon Prism (ROMhack) DMCA Takedown


Hengki Kusuma Adi
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Well dang. I wonder why this specific hack was shut down... Was it big/widely known? I saw a couple youtube videos on it here and there.

Sucks for him though, sounds like he was super close to completing it too...

I wonder if the name has anything to do with it, Necrozma is the Prism Pokémon, and "Stars" is supposedly a codename for a SuMo third version (so we don't know the real one). Maybe I'm reading too much into it.

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https://daily.pokecommunity.com/2016/12/21/rom-hack-pokemon-prism-receives-cease-desist/

As far as I'm aware, it was one of the creator's biggest projects that's been in the works for a long time.

What a shame, too - it looked quite promising from bits I've seen of it. To practically touch it only for it to be snatched away at the last moment...

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Well dang. I wonder why this specific hack was shut down... Was it big/widely known? I saw a couple youtube videos on it here and there.

Sucks for him though, sounds like he was super close to completing it too...

I wonder if the name has anything to do with it, Necrozma is the Prism Pokémon, and "Stars" is supposedly a codename for a SuMo third version (so we don't know the real one). Maybe I'm reading too much into it.

It got a lot of hype because it was in the making for maybe 8 years (which is a huge amount of time for a passion project) and the creator had already made a hack that was generally held in high regard.

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Well dang. I wonder why this specific hack was shut down... Was it big/widely known? I saw a couple youtube videos on it here and there.

The Pokecommunity article mentions a trailer for the hack had over a million view. That's probably got something to do with it. When your technically illegal project gets that much attention, the people you're infringing on are likely going to notice.

Not that I don't sympathise. It's a terrible shame, but hardly surprising.

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At this point I'd give a silent "Fuck you Nintendo" and finish the goddamn thing anyway, "comply", but then behind the scenes "oh, I already had it finished, somebody just happened to leak the last development build I had given to my betatesters on a torrent site. Oops!" Or something of similar nature...

The cycle of circulation on the internet is vicious and absolutely unstoppable. No amount of corporate-issued takedowns can get anything off the internet, it's simply not possible. You don't shoot this sort of dedication down. You just don't. It's not right and they should not get away with it.

Honestly it's frustrating that Pokemon is a Nintendo IP. Given the beautiful upswing GF has been on with Sun and Moon I feel like there's just no way they'd ever do this kind of stupid nonsense themselves, it has to have been some higher-up at Nintendo being over-conservatively protective as always... At least that's what I want to believe...

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Well this is infuriating. One of the few pokemon hacks with actual effort into it, and it looked great, too. But, like AM2R, Nintendo doesn't care how good it is. Only that it is infringing on copyright.

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At this point I'd give a silent "Fuck you Nintendo" and finish the goddamn thing anyway, "comply", but then behind the scenes "oh, I already had it finished, somebody just happened to leak the last development build I had given to my betatesters on a torrent site. Oops!" Or something of similar nature...

The cycle of circulation on the internet is vicious and absolutely unstoppable. No amount of corporate-issued takedowns can get anything off the internet, it's simply not possible. You don't shoot this sort of dedication down. You just don't. It's not right and they should not get away with it.

Honestly it's frustrating that Pokemon is a Nintendo IP. Given the beautiful upswing GF has been on with Sun and Moon I feel like there's just no way they'd ever do this kind of stupid nonsense themselves, it has to have been some higher-up at Nintendo being over-conservatively protective as always... At least that's what I want to believe...

Nintendo has a right to protect their product from outside sources that may attempt to replicate it... Whether or not i agree with the decision, they have all the rights to do this. Although you are right, it is impossible to get something off the internet. Dedication or not, they still did something illegal and they got caught. Nintendo is merely acting within the extent of the law. Whether the law is stupid or should be changed or whaterver is a totally different question here.

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Can they actually stop the completed hack from being spread around? The Streisand effect is sure to occur now.

They can't. As far as I am aware, that has never worked, and will likely never work.

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"From Nintendo's perspective, there is no real difference in essence in terms of the infringement of intellectual property which occurs, notwithstanding that the intentions of the party engaged in "ROM Hacking" may be driven not for financial gain."

Well, this is what he deserves after all. Shouldn't have asked for donations!

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The problem with this hack was that it became well known, along with its counterpart Pokémon Brown, after Twitch Plays Pokémon decided to play both... After that, almost everyone knew of it, but before then, almost no one did. When your hack goes on such a large project, getting it shut down is almost unavoidable...

I think it wouldn't had been an issue had one of the biggest public streaming services not played it, since his other hack, Pokémon Brown, was not an issue until then...

And yes, Nintendo is within the right to defend their trademark, but at the same time, I feel like something should be there to protect the dedicated fans as well... It isn't fair that their work get shut down, while the original work is allowed to live on without consequence... I have heard stories of people fighting back against DMCAs and winning (happened with Silver Linings), so maybe that's what this guy will decide to do, or otherwise find a loophole.

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You know, I actually wanted to play this one. But when will ROM hackers learn? KEEP A LOW PROFILE. Dont make trailers, dont announce release dates months in advance, just generally don't act like you're an aboveboard dev company, because like it or not, the folks in charge say you ain't.

Yes, people support you and want to play your game. Yes, some people think these companies can be overzealous in protecting their properties. But the situation is what it is, you're on the wrong side of the trademark and name that you've decided to use, you KNOW how Nintendo feels about what you do, why the fuck would you tempt fate like that?

Same thing happened with Uranium and AM2R. Featured on actual gaming news sites, nominated for the Game Awards that Nintendo had a hand in -the fuck did they think was gonna happen? The more visible you are, the less companies can pretend they don't see you, and then even a less protective company than Nintendo would have to do something.

And how is it that in 10+ years of hacking, people haven't learned to put up even the slightest of pretense? Just call it SomethingelseMon Prism or something like that, nobody cares how dumb the name is. You get plausible deniability, Nintendo gets plausible deniability, suddenly your odds of survival are that much higher.

And stuff like Axiom Verge and Freedom Planet strike me as better examples of fan games than things like AM2R or Pokemon Uranium. Because with those aforementioned games, while making their inspirations obvious, the devs still created something they could call 100% their own and even sell it for profit. I mean hell Nintendo was happy to promote Axiom Verge on their YouTube channel.

Edited by Water Mage
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The thing is though, games like the ones you mentioned are in knowledge as official games made by indie companies... ROM hacks and fan games are not, so the two cannot be compared...

Regardless, I think what happens is that the more games are shut down, the more people are likely to make, because they know that even if they don't succeed, it gets attention. And if they make what other fans want, when the company doesn't, the fans are more likely to gravitate towards them.

And with social media and fan made websites becoming more and more common, it's more than likely that a situation like Prism or Uranium will happen again. If that keeps happening, I think the companies will be forced to make some rules that will allow these games to exist, but not directly compete, simply because they and the fans' desires can't be ignored.

As for why they don't do something of their own, it's because it doesn't get as much attention. A Pokémon game attracts thousands of buyers almost every time. It's the same with Pokémon hacks and their downloads. If the name wasn't Pokémon, it would not attract nearly as much attention as it did... Even though I honestly feel like it would have done better as its own series (having played Brown and finding it a little awkward).

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And how is it that in 10+ years of hacking, people haven't learned to put up even the slightest of pretense?

...while making their inspirations obvious, the devs still created something they could call 100% their own and even sell it for profit.

The problem here is that making something you can actually call your own requires money. Getting money for a project requires it to get attention.

The only way many fan projects like romhacks can succeed at all is if people exploit what already exists: An engine that's been hacked clean open. Not everyone is a programmer. And actually getting people to work on a passion project is next to god-fucking-damn impossible, especially not without a foundation, which requires having the engine to begin with.

Take our own community for example. The only reason FE7x exists is because Yeti is a fucking godlike programmer who made *the entire engine* from scratch. That's enough to get yourself off the ground; at that point the creative folks will usually gravitate to you. It wouldn't work the other way around, as our community has demonstrated oh so many countless times.

The fact of the matter is that usually people who want to make passion fan projects aren't programmers. But for programmers themselves, they run into the other wall: Artistic Assets. Art is fucking expensive to buy in the bulk a game needs, far more than most people have just sitting around as disposable cash. Therefore, the logical option is "Well let's make a fangame! That way I don't need to buy that stuff, I can just use what's already there for me!" But then something terrible happens like this and it all goes up in flames over something ridiculous.

Neither party wins here without a well-constructed team beforehand, which, again, is next to impossible to gather when you don't actually have anything beyond what your skillset is. It literally almost dooms any project to just run entirely on one person and most people do not have the required spread of skills to pull that off.

A romhack usually mitigates several of these issues though; you have an engine made for you that does the things you want it to do, and you have all the graphics and music you could need! All you need is a writer and you're golden! ...In theory, anyway.

I feel all fangames should ultimately strive to break off into their own thing, but the problem is that those two things just make it next to impossible for people to do so... this is what happens. People pour their time and money and effort into a project that's in dangerous waters, where they can never reach for support to compensate for these issues lest they be torn to shreds by a metaphorical shark. It's no goddamn wonder most hacks never get off the ground.

This is what a community is supposed to be for, but then most communities end up too cynical to even help their fellow members like this without the glitter of gold involved. This is a bit of a tangent, but... I need to say this anyway. Part of it, I feel, lies rooted in an issue that particularly bothers me, as a writer: Too damn many people fancy themselves a writer, even when they just aren't. Or perhaps better phrased, everyone thinks they can lead, when some are better off... not. I don't think it's the issue here at hand but just let me ramble about this for a bit.

What I mean by this is that everyone has this thing they wanna do and they're not willing to acknowledge they can't just do their own thing and have it succeed. People with other skillsets who lack this creative capacity need to be willing to give ground and accept that they can leave their mark through another's work too. Often you'll see them with such fervor for their own idea even when it's something doomed to fail, full of holes they can't fill, or whatever have you... And when they get hired onto a team they just can't get into it the same way they did their own thing.

It's not like in the gaming industry itself, (At least, for sure with small teams like those fangames have.) where sure, the main direction is decided by the the project leader, but everyone in the team contributes to what it ends up being. People aren't willing to work in a team because everyone thinks they can be a leader; they have this thing they wanna do and just won't be satisfied unless they can do exactly that. Even I fall victim to this when I lead a project, it's scary to think of this cherished idea of yours being warped into something else, right? I get that. It's hard to put the same attention and care into something that's not your own. But it's important to work with your strengths, not against them. Unless you're a ridiculous jack-of-all-trades you're just not going to be able to pull off an ambitious project like that on your own. If more people were willing to cooperate like that, where all parties give it their all by working in their element, I feel we'd see a lot fewer failed fangames that never get off the ground, waste the time and effort of anyone who contributed to them, and therefore jade the community into never trusting anyone's efforts anymore...

tl;dr: art is expensive, programmers to make an engine are expensive, so people make romhacks to get around those things; people can't make their own stuff because doing so requires money which requires attention which requires a strong foundation: something most people who do make romhacks can't do because the standards of the people who would offer help for free are often sickeningly high, expecting a fully functional fully decorated project out the door, or otherwise those people will only work on something if that person will work for their idea, and therefore causing this clash where nobody will work for anybody.

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Couldn't have said it better myself...

If there's one thing we've learned from Pokémon Prism, it's that something involving the fangames/ROM hacks needs to change. It's either risking getting caught as soon as you are publicized, or the company risks losing many devoted fans over something that costs nothing (whether they take it down or not)... The way it is right now, neither side can benefit from things like this...

Either companies need to take a more laid-back approach, or there needs to be more cost-effective resources and communities available to people who make these types of projects so they truly can create their own work... And as you pointed out before, the latter is not easy, and it's been established that the former is a risk...

Edited by wheelsonfire
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Makers of fangames could start by actually making up their own concept and world. ROM hacks are appropriate while you are building up your game design skills, but if you want your sell your game, you should strike out on your own.

Even if it's an obvious clone, companies would be much less likely to take legal action if you aren't using their IPs, and if your game is good it shouldn't need to leech off name recognition of another franchise.

Edited by Baldrick
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The tricky thing is that the key: recognition. Are people more likely to buy a game they've never heard of, or a game they recognize from a popular series? The answer is sadly the former, and that's where a lot of fan games run into problems... They need to make their own product to get out of a legal gray area, but in order to get attention, the easiest way to do this is to use something that was already established...

Edited by wheelsonfire
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Now that I think about, I wasn't entirely right; you can (and probably should) use the name recognition as long as you use original material.

Take the Partia games as an example. Every review I've seen of it calls it "Fire Emblem for iPhone", and that's a fairly apt description.

But the engine in the game was built from scratch, and so were all the assets.

So there was 0 risk of them getting a C&D from Nintendo.

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tl;dr: art is expensive, programmers to make an engine are expensive, so people make romhacks to get around those things; people can't make their own stuff because doing so requires money which requires attention which requires a strong foundation: something most people who do make romhacks can't do because the standards of the people who would offer help for free are often sickeningly high, expecting a fully functional fully decorated project out the door, or otherwise those people will only work on something if that person will work for their idea, and therefore causing this clash where nobody will work for anybody.

I understand your entire point, I really do.

But the problem itself is already in the idea of making a fangame. It is against law, no matter how pure your admiration for the series, no matter how much help you need, so you really shouldn't seek attention when you know how Nintendo is with this sort of stuff.

And I've seen many people vilifying Nintendo for this so allow me to play the devil's advocate for a moment:

You need to understand this from a business point of view.

Now put yourself in Nintendo officials shoes, you have just discovered that an individual has taken one of your gaming franchises, and has remodeled it into their own image, but most importantly, they are distributing this game both Digitally and Free.

Ask yourself this, will you pay $40 dollars for a game made for a console when there is another version of that franchise online for free that you can download onto your PC?

Besides this is a replication of their actual mainline product: a video game. It can be very easily argued that a fan game that has the same mechanics as a pokemon game could be a competitive free alternative to their product, whilst using their intellectual property.

Also if they let ONE fan game do it, they have to let ALL do it. IP law 101.

But dont shoot the messenger, I am just as disappointed as the rest of you are, but you all have to know that this kind of charity could cost Nintendo possibly Millions of dollars. (and you all know how the business world is when it comes to money).

But, in my honest opinion, all of this could have been avoided if this game was released secretly. I understand why Adam didn't do it secretly, but it doesn't change the fact that Adam shouldn't have gathered this much attention to the game, when he knows how Nintendo is.

A

Edited by Water Mage
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But the problem itself is already in the idea of making a fangame.

If it wasn't obvious, I was making it quite clear that a blatant fangame is kind of doomed for this kind of treatment. And that's why people should strive to forge a unique identity for their game, even if it has strong inspiration rooted in the franchise they love.

The problem is that it's just not practical for people to do that compared to how accessible romhack-type fangames are because game making is a huge endeavor and the average person has no feasible way to actually take the required steps to make that identity due to the circumstantial standards regarding this medium.

And that's tragic and both communities and companies really need to do something to make it better... But obviously it'll have to come from the community more than anything because we all know how corporations are uncooperative in this regard.

Edited by Ritisa
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Yeah, and that's exactly why the system needs to change, because it turns companies and devoted fans against each other, almost...

On a side note, I heard Prism got leaked anyway, so it just proves that no matter how much you try and stop something, it's completely useless in the Internet age...

I feel companies should just give up trying to stop those things, because it just makes fans want them even more and turn away from the legit products... Not to mention that if the fan is truly devoted, they'll get it anyway...

Effectively, taking these things down is having the exact opposite effect of what the company wants ....

Edited by wheelsonfire
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Effectively, taking these things down is having the exact opposite effect of what the company wants ....

Not to mention, there's no such thing as bad publicity. Odds are it's going to become more popular now that people will rally behind it and against nintendo because of it. Good. It's what I wanted to happen in this situation anyway. It deserves it after that BS.

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Confirmed that Prism got leaked. If you look carefully, you can play it all you want...

And I believe there is such thing as bad publicity, although this time it's on the company's side. They're becoming known as a company that alienates their fans, and as a result, they're losing them. With the release of shoddy products like the Wii U, the advent of things like Facebook and personal websites to make more famous fangames, and fans consistently not getting what they want from official material, it's not a question of if, but when, fans will jump ship...

It's quite sad, what those famous companies eventually become...

Edited by wheelsonfire
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Honnestly, when you saw what happens with Sega and Sonic (where you have no reason to ever buy a new games when you see what fans have made. ANd hiring a fan was a smart move, but too late.), you can understand why they would do that.

Though in this case, this reaction is.... counterproductive. No fan games will ever replace the main titles, since the main games are still generally better than the fan games (or as good, though different.)

Big companies should learn to have a more nuanced approach about fan games. Because some times (like with Pokémon.), they are actually a good thing.The persons making fan games are some of the most fervent fans of the series, and this is a love letter to the franchise. It shows how well implmented the serie is in everyone's mind, and even if it gets them no money, it allows the serie to be still present in everyone's mind.

Not to mention, there's no such thing as bad publicity. Odds are it's going to become more popular now that people will rally behind it and against nintendo because of it. Good. It's what I wanted to happen in this situation anyway. It deserves it after that BS.

Well, remember Pokémon Uranium. They got free publicity by stopping it before receiving a DMCA.

It was a pretty smart move on them.

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