How would you have handled Corrin's family?

[twistedxgrace]

True, but I really like the idea of Azura coming to Nohr and being scared of him. Then willing to kill him so Hoshido will accept her back, just to not be able to go through with it, and coming to accept Garon as her father. We can't do all of that with evil Garon.

I liked that Azura was not afraid of Garon; seeing a mostly-lived Hoshidan not afraid of Garon was in my opinion a nice touch, and you have to admit those dance cutscenes are beautiful. I would've liked to see more proper/satisfying interactions between Azura and Garon, too, though.

[Time the Crestfallen]

though "kinda flimsy" is a massive step up from what we actually got

True, but I really like the idea of Azura coming to Nohr and being scared of him. Then willing to kill him so Hoshido will accept her back, just to not be able to go through with it, and coming to accept Garon as her father. We can't do all of that with evil Garon.

Perhaps, but what does this accomplish that the 'I did what I had to' Garon doesn't? That gives him a reasonable and understandable motive, even if he does take it to far. All the depression thing does is make him look stupid and weak-willed.

[BlueBloodEmblazer]

Perhaps, but what does this accomplish that the 'I did what I had to' Garon doesn't? That gives him a reasonable and understandable motive, even if he does take it to far. All the depression thing does is make him look stupid and weak-willed.

I suppose you are correct, I think the only way to make Garon at least part of a good guy is to get some evil Hoshido characters

[BlueBloodEmblazer]

I liked that Azura was not afraid of Garon; seeing a mostly-lived Hoshidan not afraid of Garon was in my opinion a nice touch, and you have to admit those dance cutscenes are beautiful. I would've liked to see more proper/satisfying interactions between Azura and Garon, too, though.

Everything would be reworked to fit the plot. I like the idea of GaronxArete have Azura. Azura has the pendant from mom before she died, and now thinks of Mikoto as mom. She knows nothing of Valla or the pendant's power. She is the same personality wise, and she's popular in the dancer/singer community.

[Azure Sen]

I suppose you are correct, I think the only way to make Garon at least part of a good guy is to get some evil Hoshido characters

Not really. The idea that Garon's a good person doing bad things for a good reason is more than enough to make him sympathetic, as long as it's well-written. Having a few evil Hoshido characters just morally darkens Hoshido a little, depending on how they're handled.

[BlueBloodEmblazer]

Not really. The idea that Garon's a good person doing bad things for a good reason is more than enough to make him sympathetic, as long as it's well-written. Having a few evil Hoshido characters just morally darkens Hoshido a little, depending on how they're handled.

The food crisis in Nohr would work, but a lot of the story would have to change. Since he would have asked for it and they would have had to refuse. He also kidnaps infant Corrin making him a little more evil. I just can't think of Garon as a well written bad guy.

[Etrurian emperor]

The food crisis in Nohr would work, but a lot of the story would have to change. Since he would have asked for it and they would have had to refuse. He also kidnaps infant Corrin making him a little more evil. I just can't think of Garon as a well written bad guy.

Before we knew what Garon turned out to be I expected him to come off as Travant from genealogy. He's also the evil king of a bankrupt nation and he also kidnaps a kid to use for his own gain. He comes off as decently well written, being motivated his countries poverty and making the case to his kidnapped kid that its still him and not some dead dad who raised her.

[vanguard333]

I agree with the idea of removing Valla, or, at the very least, not making it a kingdom that suddenly everyone forgot existed after only one generation. Personally, if I had to keep it in the story, would make it a dead kingdom people remember in tragedy due to a terrible event that people know happened. I would also put Valla on the map and maybe make the bottomless chasm feared because it is a lingering reminder of the tragedy of Valla. I would then make it that the Tragedy of Valla is connected to Nohr's food crisis. I would still keep Azura as Garon's stepdaughter, but make it that her safety was the reason she was separated from her stepsiblings, but perhaps I would make it that sometimes she was allowed to spend time with her stepfamily, and that she cherished those moments.

I would have kept all the royal siblings, and made it that each has their role to play in the story so they don't always have to be involved all the time, but none are underused or underdeveloped. I would make Corrin blood-related to the Hoshidan siblings and not Anankos' son. The dragon-form would be kept (though made to look more like a dawn dragon, given that Garon's dragon form greatly resembled the dusk dragon statues), and explained the way it was in chapter 5: some descendants within whom the blood is particularly strong can shapeshift, but they risk insanity due to the stronger instincts without a dragonstone. Perhaps, instead of getting one out of nowhere from Azura, they must have one made (or maybe he gets one that will work for a time, but he will need one that is his own to remain permanently under control), and this leads him to the Rainbow Sage. Furthermore, I would expand upon the lore related to the Rainbow Sage, the First Dragons, the Yato and the other weapons. For example, instead of all five having been built by the Sage, he built the Yato, "And the other dragons followed suit; giving their human champions sacred weapons, but [humanity being brought into the war between the First Dragons] all started with my grave mistake; I must pay the price." This would allow for more than five sacred weapons, thus allowing for all the royal siblings and Azura to have sacred weapons, and for the Yato to become the Fire Emblem (for purposes directly related to the plot) in all three routes. I would also make the Yato more plot relevant, and explain that the Yato chose Corrin because it saw in him the chance for peace among humans; the chance for the Rainbow Sage's redemption to be fulfilled. It's a bit strange that the Yato was inside a Dawn Dragon statue, and two were in Hoshido and two were in Nohr, when all 5 weapons were made by the Rainbow Sage. I would also maybe give a brief mention of where each of them got their weapons.

[Baldrick]

Four siblings each is too many. I'd keep Leo and Takumi as your brother on each side. I wouldn't cut Ryoma and Xander entirely; the former could be much older and Sumeragi's former retainer, and Xander would be a general who isn't fully loyal to Garon, but follows orders because Garon has taken his child hostage.

Play up the food situation, with more reference to Hoshido's superior land and the fact that Nohrians often have to become mercenaries to make ends meet; Garon's ultimate goal would be to unify the countries under Leo and Corrin's joint rule.

Finally, Azura would be the child of Mikoto's brother, and the princess of Valla. Revelations would be all about defeating the evil dragon Anankos who has possessed her brother.

[vanguard333]

So, basically Geneaolgy/Sacred Stones (I haven't played either game so correct me if I'm wrong, but that does sound similar)?

Edited January 9, 2017 by vanguard333

[SalShich10N]

I'd have it be:

-Corrin is Mikoto and Sumeragi's son, can't S rank hoshidan siblings

-Azura be Arete and Garon's daughter

Either that or have it be part of Conquest story to call out on the Hoshidan siblings for lying about Corrin's heritage.

I'd also have Revelations be Corrin and Azura siding with good Anankos's soul against Nohr, Hoshido and ultimately Anankos's evil body and restore Valla to the surface. Instead of gathering every unit you create generic "vallite" units like in Disgaea, where you choose their class, growth inclinations, and can manually allocate a few base stats. Maybe have a more legit skill shop for these generics.

[twistedxgrace]

I thought of an interesting idea. Corrin is the child of Mikoto and Garon as the result of a one-night stand. Mikoto has custody at first, but Garon takes the chance to kidnap Corrin after killing Sumeragi. This way, Corrin would actually be forced to choose from two blood families and not from one adoptive family and one blood-but-only-through-marriage family.

[Time the Crestfallen]

I thought of an interesting idea. Corrin is the child of Mikoto and Garon as the result of a one-night stand. Mikoto has custody at first, but Garon takes the chance to kidnap Corrin after killing Sumeragi. This way, Corrin would actually be forced to choose from two blood families and not from one adoptive family and one blood-but-only-through-marriage family.

The whole reason for choosing Birthright is because they're your blood-family. Being related to both kinda detracts from the motives to side with Hoshido beyond moral reasons, since the choice now comes down to 'blood family you were raised with vs. blood family you weren't and don't remember'.

[BlueBloodEmblazer]

I thought of an interesting idea. Corrin is the child of Mikoto and Garon as the result of a one-night stand. Mikoto has custody at first, but Garon takes the chance to kidnap Corrin after killing Sumeragi. This way, Corrin would actually be forced to choose from two blood families and not from one adoptive family and one blood-but-only-through-marriage family.

Sounds good on paper, but it takes away the whole blood fam/adopted fam.

[BlueBloodEmblazer]

Sorry accidentally double posted.

Edited January 9, 2017 by BlueBloodEmblazer

[twistedxgrace]

Sounds good on paper, but it takes away the whole blood fam/adopted fam.

Well so does the main game's approach to be quite honest. The only Hoshidan actually related to Corrin is Mikoto, who dies right before Corrin makes the decision. As much as I enjoy all three paths, Corrin siding with Hoshido seems more like a sympathetic decision than a birthright.

[NekoKnight]

Well so does the main game's approach to be quite honest. The only Hoshidan actually related to Corrin is Mikoto, who dies right before Corrin makes the decision. As much as I enjoy all three paths, Corrin siding with Hoshido seems more like a sympathetic decision than a birthright.

When Kamui explains her reasoning for choosing Hoshido, she brings up her mother and how evil Garon is. This is actually smart writing because at this point, she doesn't really know her "blood" siblings at this point. The title of Birthright is still false (and even Ryoma is aware of this) but Kamui's reasoning makes sense for the choice.

[twistedxgrace]

When Kamui explains her reasoning for choosing Hoshido, she brings up her mother and how evil Garon is. This is actually smart writing because at this point, she doesn't really know her "blood" siblings at this point. The title of Birthright is still false (and even Ryoma is aware of this) but Kamui's reasoning makes sense for the choice.

Ryoma and Hinoka are both aware, actually, as their supports talk about adjusting to Mikoto being their stepmom. Takumi and Sakura don't even lightly infer to Ikona in comparison, but either way they are obviously more accustomed to Mikoto as their mother.

[Azure Sen]

Ryoma and Hinoka are both aware, actually, as their supports talk about adjusting to Mikoto being their stepmom. Takumi and Sakura don't even lightly infer to Ikona in comparison, but either way they are obviously more accustomed to Mikoto as their mother.

Hinoka isn't actually aware that she's not related to Kamui, though. She only learns in her S Support with a Male Kamui and alongside everyone else in Revelation. Given the rough timeline of events, Hinoka was 2-3 when Kamui would have arrived in Hoshido with Mikoto.

Edited January 11, 2017 by AzureSen

[twistedxgrace]

Hinoka isn't actually aware that she's not related to Kamui, though. She only learns in her S Support with a Male Kamui and alongside everyone else in Revelation. Given the rough timeline of events, Hinoka was 2-3 when Kamui would have arrived in Hoshido with Mikoto.

Hinoka does know that Mikoto is her stepmom, though, as shown in her B support with Corrin. I suppose she still could've believed them to be half-siblings with Sumeragi as Corrin's father, though.

• Avatar: You were still quite young when you decided to become a sky knight, right? It's obviously a dangerous job... Did anyone try to talk you out of it?
• Hinoka: Oh, definitely. Many people did. Your mother more than most.
• Avatar: What? Even my mother? She was worried for your safety, even though you weren't related?
• Hinoka: Indeed. It even surprised me how strongly opposed to the idea she was. She tried all manner of things to convince me to change my mind. Begging, bribing...
• Avatar: How did you respond?
• Hinoka: Well, I was still a very young girl... Ryoma and the others accepted her as Father's wife and our new mother, but I... I didn't do that very easily. As a result, I was cruel to her---more cruel than she could ever deserve.
• Avatar: Oh, no! What happened? What did you do?
• Hinoka: I told her that she wasn't my mother and had no place ordering me around. Of course, I apologized later, but it's impossible to take back what was said. I still remember how her face changed right as the words left my mouth. I'll probably regret having said that for the rest of my life...

The whole situation is conflicting. It's times like these I really do think it would have made more sense for Sumeragi to be Corrin's biological father instead of Anankos, but no, we need a hidden and convoluted explanation of why the main lord is a dragon as well as prevent sibling incest! Unknown cousin incest is still okay though

Speaking of, I haven't seen this part of the story discussed in this thread, probably because I and many tend to forget about it: Garon is also a dragon, as the final boss of Birthright. Can we talk about this? It just comes out of nowhere and I think my idea of him having an affair with Mikoto would've justified it, father and child being dragons still. Maybe the affair wouldn't be revealed until the middle of Birthright, giving Corrin a serious internal conflict in the story.

Edited January 11, 2017 by twistedxgrace

[Salamud]

Making Corrin a blood relative to the Hoshidan siblings doesn't change the issue of how he wouldn't have a believable case for joining Hoshido short of Garon being a ridiculously hostile cartoon villain. Even if Nohr is the aggressor, Corrin shouldn't be such a superhero he'd just run off to Hoshido over Nohr's warfare.

Of course, I find that the way they handled the premise faulty. For one thing, it's ridiculous that two armies of mortal enemies would wait on an unknown royal to pick who to join.

[NekoKnight]

Making Corrin a blood relative to the Hoshidan siblings doesn't change the issue of how he wouldn't have a believable case for joining Hoshido short of Garon being a ridiculously hostile cartoon villain. Even if Nohr is the aggressor, Corrin shouldn't be such a superhero he'd just run off to Hoshido over Nohr's warfare.

Of course, I find that the way they handled the premise faulty. For one thing, it's ridiculous that two armies of mortal enemies would wait on an unknown royal to pick who to join.

Even if Garon were not trying very hard to murder you, the basic premise would be "Player's nation invades peaceful nation for no other reason than possibly greed". There would still be cause to sympathize with Hoshido, especially with the added detail that you were kidnapped as a child.

[Salamud]

Even if Garon were not trying very hard to murder you, the basic premise would be "Player's nation invades peaceful nation for no other reason than possibly greed". There would still be cause to sympathize with Hoshido, especially with the added detail that you were kidnapped as a child.

That raises the question of how Corrin would come to find conquest objectionable to the point of deserting in this fixed Fates. Corrin being abducted can be countered by him being too young to recall Hoshido (get rid of amnesia).

Edited January 11, 2017 by Salamud

[Thane]

That raises the question of how Corrin would come to find conquest objectionable to the point of derserting in this fixed Fates. Corrin being abducted can be countered by him being too young to recall Hoshido (get rid of amnesia).

How about the fact that Nohr is trying to conquer Hoshido which, to our knowledge, has done nothing to deserve it? Or that Corrin goes back to the man who murdered your "parents" and is trying hard to murder them as well? Or that their adoptive family lied to them all their lives? Or to honor Mikoto's sacrifice? Corrin's decision to return to Nohr goes against their characterization of the prologue chapters in which they always tried standing up for what's right; running back to an invading nation is out of character for Corrin.

The only reason for Corrin to go back to Nohr in Conquest is because of their connection to their family; it's a purely selfish decision. Had the game treated it as such though, I wouldn't have minded as much.

Edited January 11, 2017 by Thane

[NekoKnight]

That raises the question of how Corrin would come to find conquest objectionable to the point of derserting in this fixed Fates. Corrin being abducted can be countered by him being too young to recall Hoshido (get rid of amnesia).

Perhaps in real life people would stick with what is familiar and do as they are told, morals be damned, but I don't think that makes a very good story. From the unbiased, omniscient gamer point of view, Hoshido is still the moral choice. You were kidnapped as a child, your mother sacrificed herself to save your life, your adoptive family has been lying to you and keeping you locked in a keep all your life. I think that's enough to at least question your place in life even if it didn't lead to an immediate defection.