FE1's Gameplay vs. Fire Emblem Gaiden's Gameplay

[Pizza Johns]

Which gameplay do you think is overall more fun? FE1 or Gaiden?

Edited December 29, 2016 by GamerLord402

[MCProductions]

Okay, I'm sure they'll read this post. Also, considering the entire Manakete species, age has NEVER been an issue to them.

P.S why isn't this in FFtF

[Pizza Johns]

My bad, I'll try to delete it.

[FionordeQuester]

I find Gaiden to be very interesting, while FE1 is basically just a bog standard FE with poorly designed maps, a bland story, unrefined mechanics, HORRIBLE face portraits, and a bad UI.

[Irysa]

FE1 is seize so its less tedious than Gaiden, even though Gaiden has somewhat more depth to it. Kinda a toss up.

[SRC]

I find Gaiden to be very interesting, while FE1 is basically just a bog standard FE with poorly designed maps, a bland story, unrefined mechanics, HORRIBLE face portraits, and a bad UI.

I mean let's be honest here. Gaiden has maps that are embarrassingly bad even by FE1 standards, a story that is laughably simple and incoherent, and horribly unrefined mechanics, items, and terrain compared to FE1. Gaiden looks and sounds way better, but this is partly because it came out later in Famicom's lifetime and technological advancement.

No, the reason Gaiden is so endearing compared to FE1 isn't due to refined mechanics or looking pretty, it's mostly due to unique mechanics and streamlined UI and item system. Gaiden has a lot of cool ideas and even though they aren't really refined or balanced (angel ring, demon fighter loops, Alm in general), they're still really interesting in the ways you can break them and allow you do do things you really can't do in other Fire Emblem games. The one-item inventory and smaller teams also speeds up the gameplay substantially and helps make up for the Famicom's hardware limitations.

Edit: I guess you are not necessarily making the argument that FE2 is superior in all of those regards, but for the sake of argument I am leaving my post as-is in case that was your intent.

Edited December 29, 2016 by SRC

[Refa]

I hate how people casually say that FE1's maps suck, as if it's a forgone conclusion. No, shut up, FE1's maps and enemy placement were, for the most part, fine. They did a fine job introducing classes and mechanics in a piecemeal fashion while still giving the player enough options at the start (which helps replayability, it's so tedious when your starting party is like two dudes). It's everything else that have pretty well documented issues.

Edited December 29, 2016 by Refa

[Dark Sage]

FE2 has the worst map design in the series, even worse than Awakening's. I don't understand why people shit on FE1's maps but ignore FE2's godawful maps.

Also FE2 has hit issues even worse than FE6, and it's UI is painful, and it's about as fun as getting a handjob from Freddy Krueger. It's no contest.

[FionordeQuester]

I mean let's be honest here. Gaiden has maps that are embarrassingly bad even by FE1 standards, a story that is laughably simple and incoherent, and horribly unrefined mechanics, items, and terrain compared to FE1. Gaiden looks and sounds way better, but this is partly because it came out later in Famicom's lifetime and technological advancement.

No, the reason Gaiden is so endearing compared to FE1 isn't due to refined mechanics or looking pretty, it's mostly due to unique mechanics and streamlined UI and item system. Gaiden has a lot of cool ideas and even though they aren't really refined or balanced (angel ring, demon fighter loops, Alm in general), they're still really interesting in the ways you can break them and allow you do do things you really can't do in other Fire Emblem games. The one-item inventory and smaller teams also speeds up the gameplay substantially and helps make up for the Famicom's hardware limitations.

Edit: I guess you are not necessarily making the argument that FE2 is superior in all of those regards, but for the sake of argument I am leaving my post as-is in case that was your intent.

Yeah, I wasn't trying to say that FE2 was better in all those regards; I was more saying that it had interesting stuff to make up for it, while FE1 didn't. The story DOES completely unravel near the beginning of Chapter 5, but I was at least interested in the story they were attempting to tell. And then all the other stuff you mentioned helped me forgive it for it's shortcomings.

I hate how people casually say that FE1's maps suck, as if it's a forgone conclusion. No, shut up, FE1's maps and enemy placement were, for the most part, fine. They did a fine job introducing classes and mechanics in a piecemeal fashion while still giving the player enough options at the start (which helps replayability, it's so tedious when your starting party is like two dudes). It's everything else that have pretty well documented issues.

Please forgive me then. I'm not sure whether or not I agree with you, but I'll analyze the maps the next time I play FE1 or FE11; that way I can give a more informed opinion. Does that sound good?

Edited December 29, 2016 by FionordeQuester

[geraq]

I find Gaiden to be very interesting, while FE1 is basically just a bog standard FE with poorly designed maps, a bland story, unrefined mechanics, HORRIBLE face portraits, and a bad UI.

I'm a fan of Gaiden myself, but I don't think it's fair criticising FE1 on these points. The portraits are about of the same quality, despite how much I like them, and the story is pretty much seminal and a template for practically every sequel, with minor variations. About the mechanics, the flaws I can find in FE1 are some questionable decisions that didn't make it into the sequels (healers getting EXP by getting attacked, the convoy in an arbritrary place on the map) and later additions that are common and natural by now (the weapon triangle, weapon ranks, convoy on leader). Some of these mechanics were fixed in FE3, which makes it much more enjoyable in addition to the obvious technical improvements of the SNES. FE1 was a great idea, like Mega Man 1, that had to be revisited and perfected by its sequels. FE11 makes FE1 even more smoother to play, and it feels easier too.

About FE1 vs FE2, I enjoyed FE2 a lot more than I enjoyed FE1, and I am baffled that it never received a proper remake that could do justice to it. Both are products of their time, they are slow, unintuitive, and have clunky UI, but that does not make either of them a bad game. It's like saying Castlevania I is a bad game just because is slow, hard, and sometimes frustrating.

To me, the world map is a deal breaker, as it very effectively concealed the linearity of FE2 and make the progression through the continent natural and smoother. The ability to go back, even if it was often unnecessary, gave me a relative feeling of freedom. I felt something similar playing Super Mario Bros 3. I was very happy to see this feature again in FE8, even if it wasn't as satisfying for me as it was in FE2.

I also loved the idea of having two parties with two lords, and again, I was very happy to see the same concept implemented in FE8. Again, I didn't find it here as satisfying as in FE2 because I would have prefered to have separate armies for each lord and two separate stories that interlocked perfectly.

Finally, I loved most of its maps, specially the ones in Chapter 3 and 4, and of course the final battle. It is my favorite final battle map of all the FEs that I've played. The maps do seem generic and overused, specially in skirmishes, but I personally found their layouts very interesting, like the battle against Tatara, or the battle against Rudolf, or the one with the waterfall, the one when Zeke is recruited, or that map with the mountain when armors come from the East and witches come from the North (which is a reused map from Chapter 1 when you fight a mercenary for the first time). It was interesting also (even if it was a little frustrating) that in skirmishes you could switch starting locations with the enemy if you were the defending army.

I'm strongly biased towards NES games, so that might play a part in how much I enjoy playing FE2.

Edited January 9, 2017 by geraq

[SRC]

I don't find the lack of a Gaiden remake surprising at all, to be honest. Why remake the game when you can just borrow elements from the game that made it memorable such as the world map? Shadow Dragon could at least lean on the strength of FE1/FE3's popularity and somewhat memorable characters to carry it through but I don't think Gaiden being a good standalone game is enough to really justify remaking it. I guess it could be a cool fan project if nothing else.

[geraq]

I don't find the lack of a Gaiden remake surprising at all, to be honest. Why remake the game when you can just borrow elements from the game that made it memorable such as the world map? Shadow Dragon could at least lean on the strength of FE1/FE3's popularity and somewhat memorable characters to carry it through but I don't think Gaiden being a good standalone game is enough to really justify remaking it. I guess it could be a cool fan project if nothing else.

I like to think that it should be easier and less expensive to remake an older game than to make a brand new one: no new characters to design, no plot to write, no new mechanics to implement and test. It would just require a technical update to improve its user experience and make it more playable and enjoyable to modern audiences. It would also be a chance to polish its many rough edges and fill up blanks in the overall plot. However I realize I'm not being entirely objective and might be just venting my own hopes and wishes for a remake, and I agree with you that it's unlikely to happen, because it would be a setback from the current direction. It would probably be much easier and more safe to make future games similar to Awakening/Fates than to older entries.

Please correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't think FE1/FE3's popularity is reason enough to justify FE11. At least not outside of Japan. Maybe Marth was popular enough from his appearances in SSBM/SSBB to justify bringing his first game into the West? My guess is that they wanted to quickly have a FE game for the DS and remaking FE1 was the fastest and less expensive choice.