Why do some people say the path of radiance is the best in the series story wise?

[General Banzai]

1 minute ago, Jotari said:

I (not a detractor of the game) contest this claim. Valter just seemed like a less fun worse dressed version of Narshen, Riev managed to be amazingly forgettable, the villains in Erikia's route basically flt like filler, Selena was just a typical Camus with the woobie factor maxed out (not a trait I think gells altogether well with  the archetype), Orson was interesting in theory and not terribly executed but still failed to leave any significant impression by only appearing in three chapters (with a very large gap in between), Vigarde is practically non existent which makes him worse than even Garon in my eyes, Fomortiis was more generic than Manfroy and Lyon, the highly praised crowning jewel of the game, while interesting and well written, felt incredibly rushed to me by appearing only in the last few chapters of the game. The only villain that I think absolutely nailed it in Sacred Stones was Caellach who in my eyes basically carried the bad guys team with how successful he was at smashing rocks. All with a strangely optimistic personality for a ruthless killer. 

The first thing FESS villains have in their court is the fact that they actually appear in the story. You dock Orson for only appearing three times, but take a look at any other Fire Emblem and that's a typical number of appearances for a MAJOR villain, let alone a minor one. And all of Orson's appearances are extremely memorable; he starts as an overpowered Jeigan, then he backstabs the party, then we have his immaculate Chapter 16 extravaganza.

Yeah, several of the villains follow tropes; but it's the writing that sells these things. Narshen gets "If we don't get Ostia under control by the time General Narshen arrives, he'll laugh at us!" Valter opens with "You're just a corpse who does not know he is dead." You see him in action starting in the Prologue, establishing himself as a legitimate threat, whereas Narshen bumbles around a lot and by the end of his tenure is stammering in Murdock's face. I grant that Selena is a worse Camus than Bryce, but as far as the archetype goes, both are near the top.

On top of that, the villains in FESS are all strung along a common theme of corruption, where they were originally admirable men of high standing who have since either gone mad with violence, ambition, or some other vice. The villains are like a cadre of Greek tragic heroes after the end of their tragedy. They all look emaciated, sunken-eyed, almost zombielike; it's especially pronounced in Orson and Lyon's transformations, but Valter, Caellach, Vigarde, and Riev all harbor similar traits. They are all visually similar to the undead monsters that serve as the ultimate adversary of the work, despite many of these characters having no actual connection to them. These kinds of parallels, alongside the shared theme of corruption or falling from grace, tie the work together and contribute to the feeling of lean tightness I described in my previous post. Most FEs shamble from plot point to plot point and dispense a wide variety of disparate characters at almost random intervals to obstruct the protagonist; PoR is no exception in this sense. There's nothing exceptionally flashy or unique about anything FESS does, but it at least does something and does it with a concerted and unified purpose throughout its duration.

[eclipse]

Much as I'd love to press for more details about Sacred Stones, this isn't the topic for it.  This IS the PoR topic - I don't mind comparisons to other stories (FE or otherwise), but the star of the topic should be PoR.

[Jotari]

32 minutes ago, eclipse said:

Much as I'd love to press for more details about Sacred Stones, this isn't the topic for it.  This IS the PoR topic - I don't mind comparisons to other stories (FE or otherwise), but the star of the topic should be PoR.

I did intend to open my comment with "At the risk of getting off topic" but I guess I just forgot in the three seconds it took to hit the quote button (not joking). Perhaps a dedicated thread for which game has the best cast of villains would be good. There is one for individual villains but I feel it's different enough.

[eclipse]

21 minutes ago, Jotari said:

I did intend to open my comment with "At the risk of getting off topic" but I guess I just forgot in the three seconds it took to hit the quote button (not joking). Perhaps a dedicated thread for which game has the best cast of villains would be good. There is one for individual villains but I feel it's different enough.

Feel free to make it, if you want to discuss it.

[Busterman64]

On 1/14/2017 at 11:49 AM, BrightBow said:

They also felt the need to make Ashnard invincible against anyone but Ike. The Black Knight probably had blessed armor so that it would be justified for Ike to go after him by himself without being irresponsible. But for Ashnard, there is just no reason. And there are so many cool interactions between Ashnard and other characters that are dragged down by the fact that those characters can't actually hurt the guy. Like, Tauroneo gets a really good on:

Tauroneo: …Now that I’ve confronted you and traded words with you, I have come to a decision. Throughout Daein, I, Tauroneo, will be known as the king killer. Come! Let me earn my name!

 

Sounds a lot less badass when his lance just deflects of Ashnard's armor.

That's honestly something that bugged me as I learned more about some of the extra stuff in this game. There are ALOT of extra dialouge that you miss out on because of the situation at hand(or you wouldn't think to do certain things). Like for example, during the climatic battle with the Black Knight, Mist will have special dialogue with the Black Knight, which shows how much she blames him for killing her father(obvus) and making Ike constantly seek revenge. Even though she knows she can't really harm him, she wanted one good hit in just to vent her frustration and sadness...buuut since one Clash will end in her greatly wounded(and you out of a good healer), you wouldn't dare to try!

It's also an issue present in RD as well(like how Micaiah has special dialogue with Ike in the second to last chapter of Part 3...something only possible if you use your long ranged light magic[forgot that tome's name] when he gets close enough......then again, Micaiah near Ike isn't a good thing unless they are allies...its like Mist and the Black Knight all over again).

 

However that's also a bit of plus with PoR(especially with RD, all things considered ). There is ALOT of special dialogue...especially under different situations. Like how(God forbid...) if Marcia dies, Makalov's support with Astrid will change because of that(like how she liked certain flowers and, if she's dead, he collects them and puts it on her grave).

Another situation(although I wonder why), if Boyd and/or Oscar die before chapter 2, it will reflect in Mist and Rolf's conversation(because if they're both dead, Mist will try to comfort Rolf and, of course, any dialogue that involves them is gone).

It's very nice small details that I like......it's just too bad that some are hard as heck to get(or in a few instances with PoR, they seem...a bit unnecessary...but hey, its the little things that make it more appealing)!

 

And for dialogue BrightBow brought up specifically, you can see the conversation, and the others, here(if you want):

http://lparchive.org/Fire-Emblem-Path-of-Radiance/Update 76/

 

Edited January 18, 2017 by Busterman64

[CappnRob]

Man, Jill's bit with Ashnard gives me such chils, it really is a shame she can't even dent him in game. I get not everyone should be able to take the final boss down, but a little bit of a bone toss would've been nice.... bleh!

[Jotari]

5 minutes ago, CappnRob said:

Man, Jill's bit with Ashnard gives me such chils, it really is a shame she can't even dent him in game. I get not everyone should be able to take the final boss down, but a little bit of a bone toss would've been nice.... bleh!

She's still pretty useful for blocking Ashnard in and stopping him from flying away to attack your squishy units. Need one extra unit to do it anyway since Ike, a dragon and a royal only cover three squares, she's bulky enough to survive him and can fly so I reckon that's a line many players do see. Provided Ashnard's AI attacks her in that scenario. Can't quite remember if that's the case.

Edited January 18, 2017 by Jotari

[Dinar87]

Looking back on this topic, and the games themselves, I think I've come to the conclusion that while all the hype did influence me enough to spend over £200 on both games, I don't see it as bad but rather a blessing as I ended up really enjoying both games. I also think, if it's not too much trouble, that the hype for those two games should be supported and maybe even grow bigger? I feel that as many people as possible should experience those two games. Sure not everyone will think they're good (let alone excellent) but, for the sake of the ones that do, can we try to keep up path of radiance's reputation?

The reason I'm saying this is because I know games' reputations can quickly degenerate if they are found to of "aged horribly" or some crap like that. I've seen games that were once praised as the best in the series suddenly become less than worthless in the eyes of the masses. I just don't want this fate to crush those games' image and the love people have for them.

One more thing. I fully believe that both games should be made as available as possible so that, if anyone doesn't like them, they won't of just wasted so much money on them.

Edited January 18, 2017 by Dinar87