[15 Discussion] Classes

[AlexArtsHere]

@Jotari If the weapon doesn't break first. Thing is, such a weapon relies on world map encounters or DLC.

[Jotari]

3 hours ago, InfinityAlex said:

@Jotari If the weapon doesn't break first. Thing is, such a weapon relies on world map encounters or DLC.

If you're breaking a weapon like that then you've either maxed out your weapon rank already or it has pitiful durability. Like glass weapon level durability.

[AlexArtsHere]

Posted the following in the Avatar discussion, I think it's relevant here:

"I know some dislike the idea of an Avatar specific class, but how about one which is very much player specific. Rather than the Tactician or Nohr Prince/Princess, I think the game should let players create their own class. They can choose from a selection of armours (and colours, with their own set promotion variants) and, as an evolution of the Boon/Bane system, allocate skill points from a pool in order to set base stats, with the Boon/Bane fields modifying growths and a Personal Skill being tied to a selectable personality option. Players can also choose their starting weapon, with a secondary weapon being a choice at the cost of a considerable amount of skill points. These weapons would dictate secondary class branches (for example, lances allow for reclassing into Cavaliers or Knights), with the mainline promotion being determined by the initial customisation, and the Avatar specific weapon (if existent) being locked to the primary weapon of the mainline class line in order to avoid a Yato situation.

Kind of complicated to explain, but I would really love to see this implemented."

[Anomalocaris]

On 2/11/2017 at 5:18 PM, InfinityAlex said:

Posted the following in the Avatar discussion, I think it's relevant here:

"I know some dislike the idea of an Avatar specific class, but how about one which is very much player specific. Rather than the Tactician or Nohr Prince/Princess, I think the game should let players create their own class. They can choose from a selection of armours (and colours, with their own set promotion variants) and, as an evolution of the Boon/Bane system, allocate skill points from a pool in order to set base stats, with the Boon/Bane fields modifying growths and a Personal Skill being tied to a selectable personality option. Players can also choose their starting weapon, with a secondary weapon being a choice at the cost of a considerable amount of skill points. These weapons would dictate secondary class branches (for example, lances allow for reclassing into Cavaliers or Knights), with the mainline promotion being determined by the initial customisation, and the Avatar specific weapon (if existent) being locked to the primary weapon of the mainline class line in order to avoid a Yato situation.

Kind of complicated to explain, but I would really love to see this implemented."

I think the best way to avoid another Yato situation is to just not have an Avatar-specific weapon. Robin got by just fine without one.

[NekoKnight]

On 2/11/2017 at 2:18 PM, InfinityAlex said:

Posted the following in the Avatar discussion, I think it's relevant here:

"I know some dislike the idea of an Avatar specific class, but how about one which is very much player specific. Rather than the Tactician or Nohr Prince/Princess, I think the game should let players create their own class. They can choose from a selection of armours (and colours, with their own set promotion variants) and, as an evolution of the Boon/Bane system, allocate skill points from a pool in order to set base stats, with the Boon/Bane fields modifying growths and a Personal Skill being tied to a selectable personality option. Players can also choose their starting weapon, with a secondary weapon being a choice at the cost of a considerable amount of skill points. These weapons would dictate secondary class branches (for example, lances allow for reclassing into Cavaliers or Knights), with the mainline promotion being determined by the initial customisation, and the Avatar specific weapon (if existent) being locked to the primary weapon of the mainline class line in order to avoid a Yato situation.

Kind of complicated to explain, but I would really love to see this implemented."

This is a great idea, and I'd love to make and name my own class. I don't think the class sets need to be determined in this fashion but it's an interesting way to keep the Prf Weapon always usable.

[SavageVolug]

On 1/19/2017 at 10:24 AM, Shadow0809 said:

I've only played fire emblem awakening and all of fates, but just got fire emblem: path of radiance, love it so far, but I honestly had no idea but also loved the fact that mounted units could potentially move after attacking, also how certain elemental magic is effective against certain units, such as fire against beast tribe laguz, if I'm correct, all we currently have now is wind magic being effective against flying units, also dark and light magic would be cool if it made a appearance against, I have yet to use it that much though, I just finished chapter 17 if maybe that explains why I haven't used it/ran into it too much, idk. ^_^;

Shadow0809, oh yes, the beautiful canto skill. I remember coming off of playing Radiant Dawn (sequal to PoR) which I had played multiple times I enjoyed it so much. When I played Awakening, I found that I really missed the canto skill. Really not sure why it was removed, as the GBA games had a mechanic very similar. I too loved how specific tomes, were effective against certain units. Hope you enjoy PoR. Do you have any favorites? Either as units or characters.

[SavageVolug]

As far as classes I would love to see a combination of the branch promotions that Sacred Stones has, and the 3 tier class system that Gaiden introduced. (Or at least so I've heard) In addition I would like to see the implementation of bonus EXP return, and see units excelling at they're strengths from an earlier stage. For example a level 10 pirate named Dart in Blazing Sword has around 40 HP, while everyone else at highest has no more than 35 give or take. He also has incredibly high amounts of strength and speed, when he promotes he will be a very beastly berserker. And I would like to see this implemented without the use of buff skills (hp +5). I like the idea of personal and class specific skills but would prefer if a skill pool was used instead with different skills costing different points. In the case of the Berserker I am really hoping to see the return of skills like Colossus and Corrosion, while Corrosion was not the biggest skill around I had a lot of fun with it because when initiated you broke enemy units' weapons.

[SavageVolug]

On 2/13/2017 at 11:21 PM, NekoKnight said:

This is a great idea, and I'd love to make and name my own class. I don't think the class sets need to be determined in this fashion but it's an interesting way to keep the Prf Weapon always usable.

Nekoknight funny you should say this because I've thought that if the avatar is used I would like to see something where we decide our class as well as growth rates, maybe in the form of being asked questions like, "How strong are you?" "Are you fast" "Are you a healthy person?" ect. And to each question we can answer something like Extremely, Good, Average, Not too good, or Poor. With us only being able to answer extremely to one of the questions but perhaps give 2 or more questions the answer of good or average. Each question and answer would dictate the growth percentage in the corresponding stat. I would also enjoy additional customization options like beards, maybe decide on the personality and background of the avatar too. If the avatar is key to the story I want multiple occasions where we can decide the reaction, response or choice of the avatar. Ranging in responses from Aggressive, Diplomatic, Passive, Cautious and Firm. Or something like that, and every decision impacts the story and may make things easier or harder for us later in the story.

[SavageVolug]

On 1/19/2017 at 10:24 AM, Shadow0809 said:

I've only played fire emblem awakening and all of fates, but just got fire emblem: path of radiance, love it so far, but I honestly had no idea but also loved the fact that mounted units could potentially move after attacking, also how certain elemental magic is effective against certain units, such as fire against beast tribe laguz, if I'm correct, all we currently have now is wind magic being effective against flying units, also dark and light magic would be cool if it made a appearance against, I have yet to use it that much though, I just finished chapter 17 if maybe that explains why I haven't used it/ran into it too much, idk. ^_^;

Shadow0809, oh yes, the beautiful canto skill. I remember coming off of playing Radiant Dawn (sequal to PoR) which I had played multiple times I enjoyed it so much. When I played Awakening, I found that I really missed the canto skill. Really not sure why it was removed, as the GBA games had a mechanic very similar. I too loved how specific tomes, were effective against certain units. Hope you enjoy PoR. Do you have any favorites? Either as units or characters.

[SavageVolug]

On the topic of classes I would like to see both new classes remain in the game, like ninja, outlaw, malig knight ect, I also want to see older classes reimplemented like monk, nomad, pirate or brigand. I am very much wanting a 3 tier system to be used and for reclassing to be out, I don't mind it too much on the 3ds but I think it would be a pain on a console. Which brings me to a point. If you think about why reclassing is done it is probably most often done so that you can aquire, 1) Better Stats, 2) Awesome Skills like Astra, 3) You prefer such-such class. What I would like to see is a combination of 3 tiers and branch promotions, I'll use the Dragon Rider class as an example. You start of with Dragon Rider, and then can promote to Either Dragon Master, or Malig Knight. Once one of these is completed you have the option of either going into the other class or 3rd tier, if you go 3rd tier right away you cannot class down as Malig Knight is a tier two (in this case Dragon lord is the tier 3) you will however still learn all the skills unique to Malig Knight. If on the other hand you trained in Malig knight before Dragon lord, you still get to promote to Dragon lord.

Since skills are so closely tied to classes here's my 2 cents on the topic. Most skills can be divided into a few catagories, Healing, Defensive, Offensive (I like the term instakill) Buffs, Rallies, and now Stat Reducers. I at least am not a fan of the rallies and find all they do is take up space in my Skills Library, as I never use them. Stat reducers (draconic hex) are all right, but I find other skills infenantly more useful. I'm going to talk about buffs first this will include skills like wrath, resolve, daunt and breakers (sword breaker). Let's start with wrath as it is probably one of the oldest. This skill should probably work more or less how it does of activating just under 50% hp, other buffs like adept I would prefer if they worked off of a myrmidon's speed instead of when they are at half health or less. How it works now, I end up removing it because these units don't have a lot of health to work with. I would like to see other buffs like resolve make a return as well. I would like every class to learn an offensive/instakill skill, soldiers learn impale, paladins learn sol, heroes or Dread fighters/vanguards learn aether, berserkers learn collosus. By defensive I mean skills like nihil, aegis, nullify and pavise which I want to be more like how it was when it was called Great Shield. I would enjoy if the skill imbue returned as well.  As far as area affect skills like savage blow, I like this idea but I think I would prefer it if this was automatic side affect of something else say the stun skill for instance, same is true of strength 2+. I would rather these units have a higher base strength and cap, which i think they already do so I don't find this very useful in the long run. I say this because if it's a choice between savage blow or lunge I usually pick lunge, and the same is true of strength 2+. Hope I didn't go too long here.

[De Geso]

I want hidden weapons to stay but be nerfed a little - they were uncontested the best weapons in Fates so while I want them around I want them to be less frustrating to use.

I also think Hidden Weapons > Tomes > Bows should be a separate weapon triangle - in other words, swords shouldn't beat bows anymore. I can see how that would get complicated though.

As for classes themselves, a promotion of a thief/outlaw which uses both bows and hidden weapons would be kind of cool. 

[Slumber]

3 hours ago, YouSquiddinMe said:

I want hidden weapons to stay but be nerfed a little - they were uncontested the best weapons in Fates so while I want them around I want them to be less frustrating to use.

I also think Hidden Weapons > Tomes > Bows should be a separate weapon triangle - in other words, swords shouldn't beat bows anymore. I can see how that would get complicated though.

As for classes themselves, a promotion of a thief/outlaw which uses both bows and hidden weapons would be kind of cool. 

I prefer the internal magic triangle vs. the Bows/HW/Tomes idea. Especially since with bows being restricted to 2-3 range, they'd get picked off like crazy by magic users, and bow users would have no way to retaliate. Meanwhile, HW would be able to retaliate against Bows. Bows would get absolutely screwed. Plus, the Sword/Axe/Lance triangle has some real life logic to it(Though it's a bit stretched). Lances have reach over Swords, and Swords aren't built for chopping like Axes are, meaning they couldn't go through a wooden or metal Lance quite so easily. However, they're much lighter and faster than Axes, so Swords have clear close combat advantage over Axes. There's not much argument to be made for why Tomes should beat a Bow, and why a Bow should beat a HW. At least with the Magic triangles, you can use the excuse of, well, it's magic.

I actually really disliked the concept of hidden weapons. They were meant to be a rebalance of the knives from FE10, and their method of rebalancing was to have the weapons take advantage of the debuffing system in Fates. The debuffing system was fun up to a point, but it quickly became annoying in the late game. I still prefer the FE10 knives, where they were weak, but they could attack from 1-2 spaces. They do need some buff, like maybe a universal crit bonus. They're the signature weapons of Assassins in FE, and the idea of a knife isn't prolonged battles, they're about hitting vitals and dropping somebody quickly. That's why most knives that are meant to be used in combat are for stabbing, and not slashing.

So I think if Knives returned, but got a crit bonus and could still be used at 1-2 range, but were neutral like bows, I'd be fine.

Edited February 16, 2017 by Slumber

[Jotari]

4 hours ago, Slumber said:

I prefer the internal magic triangle vs. the Bows/HW/Tomes idea. Especially since with bows being restricted to 2-3 range, they'd get picked off like crazy by magic users, and bow users would have no way to retaliate. Meanwhile, HW would be able to retaliate against Bows. Bows would get absolutely screwed. Plus, the Sword/Axe/Lance triangle has some real life logic to it(Though it's a bit stretched). Lances have reach over Swords, and Swords aren't built for chopping like Axes are, meaning they couldn't go through a wooden or metal Lance quite so easily. However, they're much lighter and faster than Axes, so Swords have clear close combat advantage over Axes. There's not much argument to be made for why Tomes should beat a Bow, and why a Bow should beat a HW. At least with the Magic triangles, you can use the excuse of, well, it's magic.

I actually really disliked the concept of hidden weapons. They were meant to be a rebalance of the knives from FE10, and their method of rebalancing was to have the weapons take advantage of the debuffing system in Fates. The debuffing system was fun up to a point, but it quickly became annoying in the late game. I still prefer the FE10 knives, where they were weak, but they could attack from 1-2 spaces. They do need some buff, like maybe a universal crit bonus. They're the signature weapons of Assassins in FE, and the idea of a knife isn't prolonged battles, they're about hitting vitals and dropping somebody quickly. That's why most knives that are meant to be used in combat are for stabbing, and not slashing.

So I think if Knives returned, but got a crit bonus and could still be used at 1-2 range, but were neutral like bows, I'd be fine.

The buff I support for knives would be to take advantage of that hidden aspect of the weapon and make them surprise attacks. Namely by having it so you can't counter attack against them (without a specific skill). This keep thieves as being weak but it also gives thieves some combat use without risk to themselves. Rather than just standing around waiting until the army has cleared its way to the chests.

[Slumber]

Just now, Jotari said:

The buff I support for knives would be to take advantage of that hidden aspect of the weapon and make them surprise attacks. Namely by having it so you can't counter attack against them (without a specific skill). This keep thieves as being weak but it also gives thieves some combat use without risk to themselves. Rather than just standing around waiting until the army has cleared its way to the chests.

I could get down with that. It'd make raising Thieves a lot more interesting.

[NekoKnight]

1 hour ago, Jotari said:

The buff I support for knives would be to take advantage of that hidden aspect of the weapon and make them surprise attacks. Namely by having it so you can't counter attack against them (without a specific skill). This keep thieves as being weak but it also gives thieves some combat use without risk to themselves. Rather than just standing around waiting until the army has cleared its way to the chests.

I could see a hybrid of that system and the current knives. Maybe some knives would debuff and others would prevent counterattacks. Thieves would be the utility class, not the strongest fighters but a broad array of tools to support other units.

[Jotari]

1 hour ago, NekoKnight said:

I could see a hybrid of that system and the current knives. Maybe some knives would debuff and others would prevent counterattacks. Thieves would be the utility class, not the strongest fighters but a broad array of tools to support other units.

Honestly I'd rather they seperated hidden weapons between knives and shurikens entirely (and also move Ninja away from the thief classes). They can both serve distinct and separate niches.

[Slumber]

One thing I think would be cool to see again is a return of the Axe Fighter. No, not the Fighter, which promotes into a Warrior, the Axe Fighter that was the Axe parallel to the Mercenary. Both the Merc(Machyua is a Myrmidon, but she's built like a Merc and has a unique promotion) and the Axe Fighter promoted into Heroes(Well, Mercenaries, but it was, for all intents and purposes, the Hero class). FE5 is the only one that does this, and Heroes making Raven an Axer made me realize: I don't think I've ever used Axes primarily on a Hero outside of Orsin and Halvan.

FE8 actually did a clever nod to this, with Hero being a promotion to the Fighter class, but the two units who could go down that line, neither really had appropriate growths to suit the Hero promotion. Ross can make a decent Hero, but he usually benefits more from going down the Pirate line as it is, and Garcia is the most Warrior-y Warrior that ever Warriored.

It was nice having early game Axe units that could actually hit stuff in FE5, and they turn into some of the best foot units in the game(Orsin is almost unarguably the best physical unit in the game, period), and none of the other axe classes put any priority on skill. Fighters are bulky and strong(And sometimes super tanky), Pirates are fast, bulky and strong, Bandits are bulky(Sometimes strong, sometimes fast, sometimes tanky).

Edited February 19, 2017 by Slumber

[SavageVolug]

6 hours ago, Slumber said:

One thing I think would be cool to see again is a return of the Axe Fighter. No, not the Fighter, which promotes into a Warrior, the Axe Fighter that was the Axe parallel to the Mercenary. Both the Merc(Machyua is a Myrmidon, but she's built like a Merc and has a unique promotion) and the Axe Fighter promoted into Heroes(Well, Mercenaries, but it was, for all intents and purposes, the Hero class). FE5 is the only one that does this, and Heroes making Raven an Axer made me realize: I don't think I've ever used Axes primarily on a Hero outside of Orsin and Halvan.

FE8 actually did a clever nod to this, with Hero being a promotion to the Fighter class, but the two units who could go down that line, neither really had appropriate growths to suit the Hero promotion. Ross can make a decent Hero, but he usually benefits more from going down the Pirate line as it is, and Garcia is the most Warrior-y Warrior that ever Warriored.

It was nice having early game Axe units that could actually hit stuff in FE5, and they turn into some of the best foot units in the game(Orsin is almost unarguably the best physical unit in the game, period), and none of the other axe classes put any priority on skill. Fighters are bulky and strong(And sometimes super tanky), Pirates are fast, bulky and strong, Bandits are bulky(Sometimes strong, sometimes fast, sometimes tanky).

Slumber, I'll have to play FE 5 then. Just for clarification that's Thraccia 776, right? Your comment reminded me of a realization that I have since playing FE 7. That game has AXE UNITS EVERYWHERE! True two of them are Berserkers which is awesome, but there are at least 5 solid axe units in that game. Whereas the past few FE games only give you two axe units and it feels like it takes forever before they're any good as oppossed to FE 7 where Dorcas starts to shine once he reaches level 10 as a Fighter if not sooner. Dart is one of my favorite axe wielders aside from Hector and he even hits Heroes when he has a weapon disadvantage, and when he hits well.....we should probably be dialing 911. 

[Slumber]

2 minutes ago, SavageVolug said:

Slumber, I'll have to play FE 5 then. Just for clarification that's Thraccia 776, right? Your comment reminded me of a realization that I have since playing FE 7. That game has AXE UNITS EVERYWHERE! True two of them are Berserkers which is awesome, but there are at least 5 solid axe units in that game. Whereas the past few FE games only give you two axe units and it feels like it takes forever before they're any good as oppossed to FE 7 where Dorcas starts to shine once he reaches level 10 as a Fighter if not sooner. Dart is one of my favorite axe wielders aside from Hector and he even hits Heroes when he has a weapon disadvantage, and when he hits well.....we should probably be dialing 911. 

If you have a thing for axe units, FE5(Yes, Thracia 776) will validate you. Don't expect much out of Marty and Dagdar, they mostly exist to capture units unless you put tons of scrolls on them, but Orsin and Halvan are very good. Orsin moreso than Halvan.

Orsin, the unit I specified, essentially has an innate crit bonus on follow-up attacks, and gets a special axe that has a 30% crit rate, has low weight, high hit and respectable might, and has 1-2 range. The innate crit bonus means that his crit rate is tripled if he attack twice in a round, meaning he will have an insane crit rate(Which yes, stacks with weapons, so his personal axe is waaaaaay better than it already appears) when he doubles. And since I mentioned that Axe Fighters are basically Mercenaries that carry axes, doubling isn't an issue for him.

He's basically a super Berserker dressed up like a Fighter that's actually a Hero.

[Jotari]

I've said it before and I'll say it again, Pugi is probably the single greatest weapon in the series.

[King Marth 64]

I do like to see Butlers and Maids, Dark Knights, Mage Knights, Dread Fighters, Witches, Hunters, Rangers or Horsemen, Archsage, Pirates, Brigands, Barbarians, Warriors, Emperor, Conqueror, Monks, Bishops, War Clerics and War Monks, Brides, and Dark Fliers return. Make Blade Lord or Knight Lord comeback. Split Weapon classes return from Heroes for Sword, Axe, and Lances for the Sword, Axe, and Lance Knights, Armor Sword, Axe, and Lances, & Sword, Axe, and Lance Pegasus.

And also, I do like to see 3rd tiers return to this game. Branch Classes return as well.

And for new classes, I wondered if Student and Teacher (probably branched from Student and Clerics/Priests) would work as a class and what about an another animal that is something can be ride on besides Horses, Pegasis, and Wyverns since we did seen Griffons were added in Awakening and we did seen in the Fire Emblem Direct that there's Griffons appeared in the paintings for Echoes: Shadows of Valentia?

Edited March 12, 2017 by King Marth 64