FE: Mature or Family-Friendly?

[SullyMcGully]

A lot of things have changed about Fire Emblem since it first released in the West 13 years ago. One of those things has been the presence of mature content. In the original GBA titles, swearing was non-existent and the most sexualized character was Tethys, who is a great deal more modest than the modern day's Charlottes and Camillas. I'm interested in knowing if you prefer these changes and wish Intelligent Systems would take them further with future installments, or if you think they should focus on creating a more kid-friendly title the next time around. Here are my own opinions:

Language: If the next installment is for handhelds/portables, then I don't care too much. As long as they keep it mild and T-rated. On consoles, however, I would appreciate as little profanity as possible, simply because in my family, gaming is kinda a really public thing and I wouldn't want to play a game on the TV screen in the living room if it has words that I wouldn't want my 8-year-old sister coming in and seeing.

Sexual content: I prefer it as low as possible. I don't enjoy the way a lot of games jump at every excuse to portray female characters wearing as little as possible. It doesn't really make any sense most of the time. I mean, it wouldn't hamper your in battle capability if you would at least just wear a T-shirt! Geez, in the real world, soldiers cover up every patch of skin possible for protection purposes. I also think that in Fates especially, a lot of characters were given an over-sexual appearance to make up for the lack of a real personality. In a lot of ways, it's just a cheap way to get out of making a character who is attractive for reasons other than their appearance. 

Violence: I think it should stay the way it is. FE has never really been very violent and I don't think it needs to be. The focus of the series should be on strategy, and while cutting-edge graphics and cutscenes would be great, I don't feel like I'm missing much with the absence of serious blood and gore (then again, my favorite skill animation is Lethality...).

I understand that many of you will disagree with this. I look forward to hearing your opinions below.

[Anacybele]

As long as characters are as sexualized as some of them have been *cough*Camilla*cough* yeah, the games will be T rated.

No more mature stuff, please. I don't like a lot of blood or gore or violence. I know there's violence in FE because it's war and all, but we don't explicitly see blades cutting flesh up and getting bloody or people beating others to a pulp and stuff.

Admittedly, I HAVE written a few scenes in my fanfic where similar happens, but believe me, I can't possibly actually WATCH that kind of business. Ew! It's much easier to write it. And it makes the writing sound more realistic.

[Brand_Of_The_Exalt]

Language: Maybe go a bit more vulgar on ruffians, but overall it's very correct as it is. Quite formal depending on the titles, but still easy to understand for those whose English isn't a native language. I mean for those who chose to play in English.

Sexual content: Yes and no. I don't mind outfits being impractical because it's a game, and as long as the character is a bit more than that (at least they tried to give Camilla and Charlotte some good supports), I'm fine. And there is way worst than that. But it would be great if IS slowed down on young girls whose age is unknown (Midori, Kana, Mozu, etc.). Elise was fine because of her personality (thanks to the localization that made her less Onichan probably) and role in the story.

Violence: FE is a bit too complicated for children/teens anyway, so a bit more violence would be fine, it's war, as long as the game stays as "noble" as it is now. That certain character's death scene in CQ was fine. You see what happens but not entirely, with shots on his face rather than on the blade.

 

Edited January 18, 2017 by Brand_Of_The_Exalt

[Thane]

There is a widespread belief in the industry that making something more mature makes it better, which is a rather naïve way of thinking, as the most important part will always be the execution. 

That being said, the core of the Fire Emblem series is about armies or at least large groups of people killing both monsters and other humans for one reason or another. Limiting that to get a certain age rating could cripple the vision of the developers, which is something I oppose in general. People die in war, and there are assholes who take advantage of the chaos to do whatever they want, and the developers should be free to explore such themes should they wish. 

 

[AlexArtsHere]

Personally, I think Fire Emblem should be between PEGI 12 and PEGI 16. While I think the amount of violence is spot on in Fates (with plenty of discretion shots while refusing to neuter the reality of what's happening), I would rather sexual content change its manifestation. I'm all for fanservice when it's in moderation, but I think that it should be optional, even if that means locking it behind a paywall. I would much rather have to pay for, say, a swimsuit pack or a Summer Scramble type pack than have that fanservice in the base game in a way that can't be turned off or ignored (such as Camilla and Charlotte). As for language, I think the less refined characters could stand to be a little more...colourful with it, but nothing very graphic or explicit.

One thing I kind of miss is how the GBA games had ambiguity which allowed situations to be interpreted in a manner that may be much more adult than was originally intended, such as how bandits would never say what they would sell the female units they capture into. It was a good way of setting the tone of the world beyond its pretty exterior and reminds players why people actually fear bandits.

[Magical Glace]

Decently moderated violence and language is fine (no excessive gore or F bombs or anything super strong, but some is fine so as to not undersell the seriousness of the usual situations), but the sexualization could really use some dialing back, it's gotten to the point of just looking ridiculous and out of place (see: Camilla).  

[Azure Sen]

Pretty much what Thane said; it's all in the execution. As long as "mature" topics are handled sensitively and executed well, I don't mind if IntSys tackles them. That being said, I think IntSys will probably stick to T and topics that would be appropriate for that rating, since it is by far the rating that allows them to target most demographics in one game.

Edited January 18, 2017 by AzureSen

[CappnRob]

T is that sweet spot imo. As for more mature content, Fire Emblem has honestly run the gamut of themes: war, murder, patricide, genocide, human sacrifices, incest, sex, abandonment, infidelity, political machinations, treason, revenge, justice, the list goes on and on. NoA censors the profanity, and while I wouldn't mind seeing a damn/hell/bastard slip through now and then, I'm ok with it being changed to blast/blazes/cripes/etc. They don't kiddy-ify the writing, if that makes any sense: these themes are generally still present and accounted for and deeply rooted in the storylines of the games, they're just not outright overtly graphically depicted, and that's fine. Something doesn't have to be grotesque and unsettling to be mature or dark, and Fire Emblem walks that fine line very well I think. 

[Eleanore]

I don't want it to get more mature, I think it's fine as it is. Did vote for T rating though because I'd like it if adult characters can actually mention they went to a bar (unlike Tellius side stepping in several base/supports) and I think some blood in cutscenes would be fine. Like Hector's sprite back in FE6.

Something I absolutely do not want is swearing. Not because I mind swearing, but I love how creative the series has gotten at times when it comes to finding substitutes and things just wouldn't be the same without 'dastard'.

[The_antithesis]

I pretty much agree with what everyone else is saying here. The language coming close to swearing while not actually swearing can make some scenes more memorable. I wouldn't mind if they slipped in a F-bomb, but it would have to have meaning. Maybe a main character would swear once they saw some major carnage done by the villain?

As for sexual content, I'd rather see less of it than more, but I don't mind it existing. However, I do think that fanservice characters should have a reason for being fanservice (like Charlotte trying to seduce people into giving her money, or the various dancers being in their dancing outfits) instead of it just being there for the sake of being there (ie Camilla).

Finally, the amount of violence here is about right. Too much more, and we'll be seeing the series become edgy, which doesn't work for a series based on tactics and 'the bigger picture'. That being said, removing the violence may reduce the weight of the plot.

[Interdimensional Observer]

Let's stick with a T rating. M rated sex and blood aren't necessary for FE. You can do mature and mature, or you can do teenage immoral "EXPLETIVE BLOOD EXPLETIVE BLOOD BLOOD EXPLETIVE EXPLETIVE EXPLETIVE, and SEX!" The former is preferred, but the latter is easier to do. Not to mention Conquest flopped around harder than Camilla in an earthquake in its attempt to do the serious darker stuff. Though I'd be okay with a bit of the Kaga stuff- child sacrifices and women kidnapped and turned into exotic dancers- if it was done tastefully that is (which is a tall order).

And you can get away with serious topics with a T rating, just not with the most vivid/atrocious of details.

[Jedi]

IS might still be wary of trying grimdark considering when they tried it for Advanced Wars it tanked in comparison to the other games. (I liked Days of Ruin but it wasn't big among people who liked the more happy go lucky stuff).

[Zapp Branniglenn]

T, but I answer yes to more mature content. See, Call of Duty is an M rated game, but nothing about it is mature. A mature call of duty would entail stories about a soldier's PTSD or the acknowledgement of friendly fire whenever the player makes that mistake. Much like with film (especially with Film) we in the west have an ever changing notion of what's considered mature content. And games can't do the PG 13 cutaway whenever somebody is murdered, since the player usually has control of the camera - not a team of editors.

I think Fire Emblem has a very natural way of being written more maturely, and that's acknowledging the death toll. I've harped on this in the past when it comes to how this can enrich and expand gameplay possibilities, but I also believe the next step for better story telling is having characters stop and take a look at what they've done. Ramifications for all the people they've killed - good and evil. The Fatigue mechanic, if it's here to stay, can refer to your unit's mental fatigue as much as physical. Standing over an opponent as they plead for life - unaware of how severe their injuries are. Killing isn't easy, and it won't get easier so long as our heroes are surrounded by the love and support of those they need to protect. 

Sex isn't something fire emblem needs to explore. Especially if it means these are the mature characters we'll get. And don't get me started on the concept of Stork Dimensions to explain children. Assuming Fire Emblem is a universe without contraceptives, it would be much safer and more mature for your units to wait until the fighting is over before sex. 

[shadowofchaos]

1 hour ago, Gustavos said:

Sex isn't something fire emblem needs to explore. Especially if it means these are the mature characters we'll get. And don't get me started on the concept of Stork Dimensions to explain children. Assuming Fire Emblem is a universe without contraceptives, it would be much safer and more mature for your units to wait until the fighting is over before sex
 

The comment section in that video makes me want to puke.

Other people have already said my take on the death and themes of war in the game.

But in regards to the language, I'm fine with it the way it is.

While it does make me chuckle a little when I see Hector say "Blast!" every time he says what is usually translater as "damn" in Japanese in modern titles... the whole "you dastards" type localization thing for language curses in Fire Emblem isn't off putting to most people.

[Refa]

I voted T but also that FE should (I hate how this was phrased, because it's more like "I want too" over "it needs too happen") have more mature content in future games.  This is because I'd appreciate if a future FE game was mainly compromised of adults and the conflicts that come with that.  Does this automatically mean the game will be M rated?  Of course not, but it'd give them more leeway when crafting believable adult characters.

[Ae†her]

It's definitely for T+ people, there's some swearing in there and some talk about adult like things such as death, cutting off of heads..etc. Although I don't think nowadays that that kind of stuff really affects children that much, just because they're so dirty! Anyways Fire Emblem should have more mature content because its much more interesting to have a world where they don't hide any of the gruesomeness of war and conflict. Maybe not anything directly representing things like bondage, or anything like that! Instead, they should talk about things like the cruelty of slavery, the horrible massacres and abuse of powers by a few...etc. Things that are more realistic about war, oh and mild blood content, because I'm a vampire and I enjoy seeing things like that.

[Sentacotus]

At most I think FE will only ever be T rated and to me thats just fine.  Where it is content wise is more suited to it.  Sure its war and medieval and all that but a overly gorey style I don't think would suit it.  A bit of blood in cutscenes for obvious wounds and all is fine.

[Flee Fleet!]

Just a question, but would FE4 be considered "mature"?

It has all the incest thing going around as well as child hunts, so....

[Irysa]

I would like FE games to be less juvenile but that doesn't neccessarily mean more tits and gore. If anything the series has gotten less mature as time went on despite the stylistic changes seemingly becoming more "mature".

5 hours ago, Flee Fleet! said:

Just a question, but would FE4 be considered "mature"?

There are some mature aspects of FE4 but those parts of the game aren't really it. Those are really just part of the atmosphere and mood of the game, to add grittiness to all the hyperidealised fantasy going on.

As a whole I wouldn't really describe it as a mature game, since a lot of the way things are handled is in a juvenile manner. Sure, its more mature than the modern games, but that's a low standard to set. FE4 lacks the kind of proper character scrutiny neccessary for a truly mature work; Travant and Levin are the closest you get with Arvis and Ishtar trailing very far behind. If it had developed more on things like Shannan's lingering guilt over how he was indirectly responsible for so many of the things that happened to Sigurd's family, and didn't jumble it's own messages about trying to understand how even your worst enemies are people via making 80% of antagonists to be just be ugly assholes, then maybe it'd be more than basically a highly ambitious fantasy rpg with gritty undertones.

I think I've said this elsewhere but a FE4 where Gen 2 is heavily modified to have Shannan and Oifey as the protagonists with Seliph basically just being a claimant figurehead they use to rally their rebellion would have had a lot more potential I think. Levin kind of does that anyway but it's in a very ephemeral way because of how Forseti is basically a god. Seliph could have come into his own at some point through awareness of his role. I guess all that stuff is basically done in Thracia though so yay for FE5 (but I was totallly thinking about it when I first played FE4 too).

Edited April 14, 2017 by Irysa

[Finian]

If by "mature content" you mean deeper plots with more politics and nuanced characters than 100% yes.

If you mean more tits and ass and other stuff that middle school boys consider "mature" than 100% no.

[Pixelman]

It's stuck somewhere in between; not fully mature, not entirely family-friendly

y'know, like a teenager

Edited April 18, 2017 by Pixelman

[Slumber]

I feel like a hard T is where FE should be. These are games about wars, and mostly involve some base level politics, with a bunch of border conflicts, and there's usually some genocide tossed in. These should get more focus than they do, so I feel like FE taking itself a bit more seriously is where the games can go. I don't want "And Robin was saved thanks to Pikachu's tears friendship." again. Ever.

These don't need to be Game of Thrones, though. These games benefit from a hefty dose of levity and dour attitudes don't suit them super well. Genealogy and Thracia were probably the best balance between anime tropes and actual stories with real consequences, and that's about where I think the FE games should be.

[Extrasolar]

I'd agree with the hard T rating as far as maturity in FE. FE's themes are already somewhat mature, especially in comparison to other Nintendo games - that is, in FE we explore themes like war, death, social stratification, political intrigue, destiny and loss, as well as things like abuse and love. I mean, we get racism and slavery in the Tellius series.

Granted, a lot of that stuff is glossed over and/or toned down in comparison to other works, but it's still there. Agreed with wanting a little more focus on those things.

As an aside, I don't mind more lighthearted or feel-good moments in FE, so long as they're not used to rob conflicts of consequences. I mean, a lot of the series runs on The Power of Friendship (TM), hope, light and camaraderie solving everything. That's the reason we get so much evil darkness vs. good light. That's why subversions of this are so interesting.

One of the things that was so fresh and unexpected about Genealogy's Gen 1 ending was that it was essentially playing the Marth thing straight - battle across continent with raised army, gaining control of entire countries...but all of this had huge consequences that came back to bite Sigurd and company. Sure, Seliph was a return to form with those same actions working out, but still.

Censorship, thankfully, has gotten much less severe than it was in the past, though there are still some oddities that are inexplicable. I'll always remember when I realized that Path of Radiance, a game with a (granted, offscreen) genocide of a helpless group of people got a T rating, but references to things like alcoholism were removed.

Genealogy and Thracia took things a little further in the maturity department than the other games in the series, and those stories are definitely the most adult, the incest notwithstanding.  And though the tone has gotten a little lighthearted and sillier in more recent years, a lot of those darker themes are still there.

I definitely don't think we should get into the realm of M-rated stuff, like gratuitous swearing, nudity, or over the top violence and gore.

Edited August 21, 2017 by Extrasolar

[Yula]

I want to see a more mature take on fire emblem, myself. No, not the average teenager's idea of mature where it's all blood and guts and sex and swearing every five words.

 

I would like to see a game with reasonable armor designs(Thank you Shadows of Valentia for bringing that back for the generics, I mean I still have issues, but eh, those are easily fixed) that actually tries to be a serious take on the genre. No, not down and depressing for the sake of depressing, but have the characters actually question the morals of what they are doing. Deal with the morale of the troops in the army, stuff like that. War isn't happy go lucky. War is terrible and does terrible things to people. 

 

The big problem with fire emblem is that you are always the good guys and no matter what, you are coming in there to stop an evil king and the civilians are always like, "Yay! Look at the great hero that saved us from the tyrant." and then it always tries to pull the, "But look, this was the real bad guy all along." It does that almost every game. This isn't a compelling story, this is the way a novice would try to extend their story. 

 

To explain what I'm asking for from Fire Emblem is more Gray on Grey morality stuff. Instead of playing as absolutely shining heroes trying to defeat an irredeemably evil foe. Show that both sides have their hands dirtied, show that neither side is beyond the idea of redemption, and that they're fighting, not because they have to stop the big bad or the big good, but because their nation's strife forced them into war with the neighboring nation. Show that the characters aren't perfect, show that the protagonists you are playing as aren't squeaky clean. You can show all of this and what war is really like without going grimdark or becoming edgy.

 

And for the love of all that is fucking holy, stop using the "This is the real bad guy!" card. It stopped being amusing a decade ago!

[tumut]

As far as violence goes I think that there should be a little blood but nothing gory, it kind of bothers me that they just yell and have sparks fly out of them whenever they're in combat. Especially with unarmored units.

Fan service doesn't bother me. Like a Summer Scramble here and there is fine. But I definitely don't want them talking about sex in supports oh nonononono. Innuendos are always funny though.

Edited April 21, 2017 by tumut