Fire Emblem Echoes (Direct Information)

[Harvey]

So according to this vid, supports are coming back....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gwrR8weO5po

 

So I guess there cannot be a single FE game besides Heroes that can't be without supports then? Don't get me wrong, I love support conversations and all but originally, this game never had any of that and yet they decide to do it.

Oh and does anyone here know who 8-4 are? Because they are apparently doing the localization of this game.

I'll admit that I haven't paid too much attention to this game but that's only because there's very little of information of it and even with that, it sounds like it can work.

 

[Tamanoir]

4 hours ago, Harvey said:

So according to this vid, supports are coming back....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gwrR8weO5po

 

So I guess there cannot be a single FE game besides Heroes that can't be without supports then? Don't get me wrong, I love support conversations and all but originally, this game never had any of that and yet they decide to do it.

Oh and does anyone here know who 8-4 are? Because they are apparently doing the localization of this game.

I'll admit that I haven't paid too much attention to this game but that's only because there's very little of information of it and even with that, it sounds like it can work.

 

They made Awakening, among others (Though I mainly remember them for DQVI personally.)

[Extrasolar]

9 hours ago, Harvey said:

So I guess there cannot be a single FE game besides Heroes that can't be without supports then? Don't get me wrong, I love support conversations and all but originally, this game never had any of that and yet they decide to do it.

You're forgetting about Shadow Dragon, which was basically a straight-up 1:1 with a facelift of Shadow Dragon and the Blade of Light with a couple of new mechanics (like reclassing...) added in. (Not counting the earlier ones because supports weren't even a thing pre-Binding Blade).

Considering one of FE's strengths has always been its characters, giving them often much-needed development serves to attach you to them so that you don't want to see them die. It's FE's characters that was the originator of the "reset if one of your units dies" self-imposed rule, after all. That's why adding support conversations (barring RD's extremely generic, stripped-down conversations) is only ever a good thing imo. Hopefully they're the writing quality of the non "everyone can support with everyone" supports, but since Gaiden had many canon pairings in the first place, I don't see them going that route.

Edited March 27, 2017 by Extrasolar

[VincentASM]

7 minutes ago, Extrasolar said:

Considering one of FE's strengths has always been its characters, giving them often much-needed development serves to attach you to them so that you don't want to see them die. It's FE's characters that was the originator of the "reset if one of your units dies" self-imposed rule, after all. That's why adding support conversations (barring RD's extremely generic, stripped-down conversations) is only ever a good thing imo. Hopefully they're the writing quality of the non "everyone can support with everyone" supports, but since Gaiden had many canon pairings in the first place, I don't see them going that route.

I got to agree with this. Even before Binding Blade, the games were progressing in such a way that character development was increasing and increasing. Support conversations were simply the natural development and I'm not surprised it's a series staple now.

Plus historically, people have loved shipping characters. Even as far back as Mystery of the Emblem. Maybe earlier. Having an actual gameplay mechanic to compliment that sentiment is a massive boon.

Now support conversations aren't 100% necessary, but if they need to be removed, something substantial needs to take its place. Otherwise there's nothing to differentiate the characters between games, since they're mostly common archetypes/tropes on the surface.

[Thunderstar]

9 hours ago, Harvey said:

Oh and does anyone here know who 8-4 are? Because they are apparently doing the localization of this game.

I'll admit that I haven't paid too much attention to this game but that's only because there's very little of information of it and even with that, it sounds like it can work.

 

8-4 is a japanese localization firm. They also localized both Shadow Dragon and Awakening.

[Harvey]

1 hour ago, VincentASM said:

I got to agree with this. Even before Binding Blade, the games were progressing in such a way that character development was increasing and increasing. Support conversations were simply the natural development and I'm not surprised it's a series staple now.

Plus historically, people have loved shipping characters. Even as far back as Mystery of the Emblem. Maybe earlier. Having an actual gameplay mechanic to compliment that sentiment is a massive boon.

Now support conversations aren't 100% necessary, but if they need to be removed, something substantial needs to take its place. Otherwise there's nothing to differentiate the characters between games, since they're mostly common archetypes/tropes on the surface.

Again, don't get me wrong here because I agree with you that characters is what makes FE games so damn great. Heck if it wasn't for great characterization, FE wouldn't be to what it is now because having generic boring characters like those of Valkyria chronicles would just bore us all to the point that there's no reason to ask for stories in FE.

My argument here is that since this is gaiden which is a very old game that wasn't even well received at its time and seeing as how Nintendo wants to make it as authentic as possible like the original, they shouldn't feel scared about not adding supports and people need to understand that devs have freedom of creation. What if Nintendo someday wants to port FE6 then? How else can they do that marriage thing if people want them to do that...though honestly, if you ask me, besides FE4, kids are pretty much pointless.

I mean look at Zelda. People have wanted Zelda to be open ended like the first game and until Botw showed up(as well as A link between worlds) nearly every other Zelda game turned out linear and yet people respected those games for what they were.

Heck, I'd say that if we're talking about characters here, we might as well accept the fact that fanservice is another important aspect for these characters even though some of us here wish that this game doesn't cover lots of fanservice(even though it already has at this point).

[VincentASM]

10 minutes ago, Harvey said:

My argument here is that since this is gaiden which is a very old game that wasn't even well received at its time and seeing as how Nintendo wants to make it as authentic as possible like the original, they shouldn't feel scared about not adding supports and people need to understand that devs have freedom of creation. What if Nintendo someday wants to port FE6 then? How else can they do that marriage thing if people want them to do that...though honestly, if you ask me, besides FE4, kids are pretty much pointless.

I respect creative freedom, but these games need to sell as well : P

Don't forget, Nintendo are a business and they're catering to fans/consumers. If Nintendo (or any other company) releases a game that nobody wants, it won't sell and they lose money.

On the less extreme side, if they skip features that people want, the game will sell less and/or receive negative feedback. That's what happened with Shadow Dragon IMO.

Zelda is a bit more fortunate since it was super popular early on and established a solid fan base over the years. Whereas FE was exclusive to Japan for over a decade and pretty niche in general until Awakening happened.

Anyway, before I lose track, I believe the creators have plenty of creative freedom still. It's not like we the community are forcing them to make everything as we want. However the creators know that we have certain expectations and will try to accommodate these around their own plans.

I mean if they were really scared, they would've added marriage and the whole shebang--oh, and an Avatar, but those things seem to be missing. Support conversations on the other hand, are far less pandering in comparison ^^

[Extrasolar]

45 minutes ago, Harvey said:

My argument here is that since this is gaiden which is a very old game that wasn't even well received at its time and seeing as how Nintendo wants to make it as authentic as possible like the original, they shouldn't feel scared about not adding supports and people need to understand that devs have freedom of creation. What if Nintendo someday wants to port FE6 then? How else can they do that marriage thing if people want them to do that...though honestly, if you ask me, besides FE4, kids are pretty much pointless.

But support conversations are overwhelming popular and well-received by the general FE audience in games that include them (barring FE10, but the reasons for that are obvious, in that they were made painfully generic and failed to expand on character), to the point that support conversations have become one of the defining traits of Fire Emblem (it is funny, because the series didn't originally start with them). When people familiar with FE think FE, they think "well-developed, interesting (at least in comparison to many other strategy RPGs), unique characters" and support conversations help with that when the main story script just doesn't have enough room to do so. I mean, even in games that didn't have supports way back in the day (SD and the Blade of Light, Gaiden, etc.), the fact that every single one of your units had its own portrait and its own name, even if it had no other traits, was fresh and interesting. That's simply not enough in our modern era, where we have huge RPGs with greatly fleshed-out casts and moments of development, so adding support conversations and lover conversations was the next big step in keeping that interest and defined characters.

For your question, I think it's a comparison of apples and oranges. Putting auto marriage S supports and children in Binding Blade, for example, is very much fundamentally changing the nature of the original game, which had paired endings and no second generation children. Not to mention, that would include a mechanical change to make room for all these new characters they'd be writing in. Adding support conversations in games originally without them isn't the same; the support conversations simply give you extra character details, character development, and fleshes out the previously rather one-note and interchangeable cast into living, breathing people with their own desires, goals and traits.

Edited March 27, 2017 by Extrasolar

[Tamanoir]

Well, at least one part of the supports must come from creative freedom. They went a huge way to expand on the original story. Developping the charatcers goes on the same sense. They were clearly limited with what they could do (I mean this mainly story wise) when Gaiden was made, due to the system. Gaiden isn't an untouchable masterpiece that was exactly what the  Creators wished, it was  a NES Game, with all the limitations and choices those two words implies.

It may not be exactly the story they wished to do back then, but Supports are a logical choice.

[Harvey]

12 hours ago, VincentASM said:

I respect creative freedom, but these games need to sell as well : P

Don't forget, Nintendo are a business and they're catering to fans/consumers. If Nintendo (or any other company) releases a game that nobody wants, it won't sell and they lose money.

On the less extreme side, if they skip features that people want, the game will sell less and/or receive negative feedback. That's what happened with Shadow Dragon IMO.

Zelda is a bit more fortunate since it was super popular early on and established a solid fan base over the years. Whereas FE was exclusive to Japan for over a decade and pretty niche in general until Awakening happened.

Anyway, before I lose track, I believe the creators have plenty of creative freedom still. It's not like we the community are forcing them to make everything as we want. However the creators know that we have certain expectations and will try to accommodate these around their own plans.

I mean if they were really scared, they would've added marriage and the whole shebang--oh, and an Avatar, but those things seem to be missing. Support conversations on the other hand, are far less pandering in comparison ^^

You're also forgetting the fact that compared to other devs, Nintendo takes a lot more risk(even though its arguable) and they made profit by taking risks. 

While I didn't play Shadow Dragon, I did read some info and saw some footage of it.. The game didn't suffer because of lack of supports. It suffered because it made a lot of questionable changes that wasn't even part of the original game...not to mention that its graphics were...ugh...and this is coming from someone who doesn't care about the look of the game.

You can argue that compared to the latest FE games, this one didn't do anything new but before SD, people have complained that FE didn't do anything new as it kept doing the same things over again and many weren't aware that FE was Japan exclusive.

But even so...the real problem is how well are those supports going to stand out? There's no way that they will be on the same level as PoR so how will it turn out? 

Cause I can certainly tell that since the original didn't have them and this remake is suppose to have them, there's bound to be some character debates here and there

As for us forcing them to do stuff...well almost everyone here is bashing how FE is more into fanservice and doesn't tone down at this point. Heck even Echoes has some of it here and there.(Poor Camilla...you'll probably be the main victim for that argument)

[bufkus]

On 3/27/2017 at 10:57 AM, Thunderstar said:

8-4 is a japanese localization firm. They also localized both Shadow Dragon and Awakening.

8-4 is John Ricciardi's firm, isn't it? I know Rich Amtower has helped them out in the past, and he's also been involved in every Fire Emblem localization to date. 8-4 is pretty solid.

 

[Limstella]

 

[Konnor97]

So Atlas is the tanned/brown guy with gray hair at 4:32 that we saw as a cavalier in some image. Jesse is the guy with curly blond hair at 5:07. Deen and Sonia seem to both have purple hair. Luthier seems to still have red hair, along with Delthea having brown hair. Tatiana seems to have green hair. In 5:32 we see Kliff as a Sage. Catria's portrait is at 3:18. Judah's new look is at 5:50. Some new guy is at 5:55. Nuibaba with his sex change is at 5:59.

As someone who doesn't know any Japanese outside of looking up a katakana chart for names, that's all I got.

[Harvey]

3 hours ago, Limstella said:

 

 

Darn, I was going to post that...oh well.

Honestly, this game looks really good and this is definitely day one buy for me but that is expected since this is FE we're talking about here.

 

[Tryhard]

The Japanese website (https://www.nintendo.co.jp/3ds/ajjj/index.html) did update, but it mostly just seems to link this new video and a section about Alm in one of the dungeons which isn't anything we've not seen before, no new character art unfortunately.

Edited March 29, 2017 by Tryhard

[AlexArtsHere]

Looking at the artwork for the LE box, I'm really hoping Hidari will show us how they break down the layers in Alm and Celica's armour, similar to what the artist for Gravity Rush did with its protagonist. I figure Celica's wearing at least three layers, with her breast plate over her white dress and what seems to be some kind of under-dress underneath. With Alm, I'm really confused how he even puts his armour on, since I can't tell whether or not his paldrons are bolted to his chest piece or what.

[Extrasolar]

On 3/28/2017 at 1:13 AM, Harvey said:

While I didn't play Shadow Dragon, I did read some info and saw some footage of it.. The game didn't suffer because of lack of supports. It suffered because it made a lot of questionable changes that wasn't even part of the original game...not to mention that its graphics were...ugh...and this is coming from someone who doesn't care about the look of the game.

I disagree here. Many, many people (myself included) who played Shadow Dragon were disappointed with the lack of changes to the base game. Shadow Dragon and the Blade of Light was a fine game when it first came out...but that's just it. It's a 20-year-old game. We've moved past that in taste and expectation as far as gaming is concerned, and getting a straight port with a facelift to the DS (including a couple new mechanics, but not enough) was highly disappointing in a lot of ways. And as for suffering due to the lack of supports, I would say that in a lot of ways it did; in a game with such a huge and varied cast, the point is kind of rendered moot with most of them being completely flat with no traits at all. We were used to more. We wanted more. I would even say we needed more.

I said that FE's strength lies in its characters, and Shadow Dragon was that strange exception that stuck out like a sore thumb. Trust me, I get it. The original game itself didn't have much character development or supports, but at least speaking for us western fans, we'd come to expect and love FE for its excellent characterization and development. Barring Marth's character development, few to no characters in the game got the same luxury (no, seriously, what's the point of Bord and Cord?), and as a result, one had a hard time getting attached to them and caring about their fate. Hell, Radd didn't even get any lines outside of his death quote!

That soured the game in a lot of peoples' eyes, and "no supports or character development" is one of the first cons I see about Shadow Dragon listed, especially by players of the western games exclusively.

On 3/28/2017 at 1:13 AM, Harvey said:

You can argue that compared to the latest FE games, this one didn't do anything new but before SD, people have complained that FE didn't do anything new as it kept doing the same things over again and many weren't aware that FE was Japan exclusive.

I've never heard anyone saying that FE "didn't do anything new," prior to SD, considering Radiant Dawn and Path of Radiance were very much different from the GBA games, and the GBA games were very much different from the Kaga games. Where exactly did you hear this?

On 3/28/2017 at 1:13 AM, Harvey said:

Cause I can certainly tell that since the original didn't have them and this remake is suppose to have them, there's bound to be some character debates here and there

Well Street Fighter II wasn't "supposed" to have combos able to be done, but they were, and it was such a well-received and loved part of the game that it transformed the fighting game scene and the rest of the series as a whole. Even if the original game wasn't "supposed" to/didn't originally have supports, it doesn't change the fact that supports are hugely well-received and popular by the FE community as a whole, and thus is one of the things that affects sales positively.

Character debates. You see this as a problem? I see it as a good thing! If supports make the characters interesting enough that people are discussing and debating aspects of them, then they've succeeded in making them developed and interesting.
 

On 3/28/2017 at 1:13 AM, Harvey said:

But even so...the real problem is how well are those supports going to stand out? There's no way that they will be on the same level as PoR so how will it turn out? 

They stand out by being well-written and interesting, just like how all of the good supports in the series stand out, And I wouldn't be so quick to say that they won't measure up to POR. We absolutely don't know how well-written and fleshed out these will be. They mist just be able to rival POR's or the GBA game supports.

[ChibiToastExplosion]

1 hour ago, Extrasolar said:

I disagree here. Many, many people (myself included) who played Shadow Dragon were disappointed with the lack of changes to the base game.

You and many others, but not all, and not me.

They definitely added too much - reclassing and forging that turns the game on its head, worthless gaiden and extra characters that wouldnt be missed but everyone cries about their requirements anyway, changing the 20 Stat caps and adding a weapon triangle which further detracted from the prior two experiences.

SD is one of my favorites in spite of these things, not because of them. I've played ALL (even the sacred cows of tellius)  fire emblem games, and the majority of my favorite characters come from SD and its iterations. Why? Because when there is less set in stone, the imagination can fill in the gaps, which is a design philosophy of a lot of early NES games. It's from a different Era and it's not an inherent flaw of SD that the fan base just isn't that creative. There is more of ME in each character, and I love that.

I understand why people don't like SD. With that being said, there ARE arguments as to why adding supports could be seen as a negative. Already Boey and Mae are great with their banter, but they are already drastically different than the bare bones Boey and Mae I was able to build up in Gaiden. As characters now establish personalities with supports and the like, less of what I made is valid and goes away, if that makes sense.

[Extrasolar]

As a whole, I don't tend to understand why people don't like changes in remakes (barring a few very questionable ones, like the gaiden requirements of Shadow Dragon, and the reclassing system I don't like either, etc.), because these are remakes, meant to be making a game that already existed over again, with modern conventions and sensibilities. It's not a port or re-release of the original game, which would logically be a 1:1 experience, perhaps with upscaled graphics. And of course, one can always go back and play the original game if one wants to experience it in all of its glory without any of the added features.

21 minutes ago, ChibiToastExplosion said:

I understand why people don't like SD. With that being said, there ARE arguments as to why adding supports could be seen as a negative. Already Boey and Mae are great with their banter, but they are already drastically different than the bare bones Boey and Mae I was able to build up in Gaiden. As characters now establish personalities with supports and the like, less of what I made is valid and goes away, if that makes sense.

For this point, I wouldn't be too concerned about what's "valid" or not. A ton of fan theories, headcanons and fanfictions aren't "valid" in the 100% canon sense, and even those that aren't completely disconfirmed don't tend to get canon confirmation. There's nothing stopping you from enjoying them regardless, imo. If you want to headcanon Mae and Boey as different than you see in Echoes, by all means. But that's just my opinion, as that sort of thing doesn't bother me

21 minutes ago, ChibiToastExplosion said:

SD is one of my favorites in spite of these things, not because of them. I've played ALL (even the sacred cows of tellius)  fire emblem games, and the majority of my favorite characters come from SD and its iterations. Why? Because when there is less set in stone, the imagination can fill in the gaps, which is a design philosophy of a lot of early NES games. It's from a different Era and it's not an inherent flaw of SD that the fan base just isn't that creative. There is more of ME in each character, and I love that.

I can definitely respect your point of view on why you see it as a bad thing, but this perspective is a bit odd to me, because I have the opposite perspective. What's the point of giving me a bunch of featureless, traitless virtual dolls with different names when none of them stand out from each other?

 I can understand your attachment to characters that let you fill in the blanks, but I can't stand it when I don't get anything at all to go off of. Why not just give me a generic template with a generic name, seeing as it would be the equivalent? I'd go as far as to say that Radd, Bord and Cord and everyone else who got no development aren't even characters, because to be a character, you have to have...well, character, or personality, or just anything that makes you interesting.

With me, when I'm playing a video game or reading a book or a graphic novel or watching a show, I'm not the one writing it. I don't want to have to write a fan fiction about every game I play simply to make the characters interesting. Isn't that the developers' job, in the first place? They're the ones trying to get me invested in and care about these characters and story. Why should I care if Radd gets eaten by a dragon, or if Sedgar falls off a cliff? As far as I'm concerned, nothing of value is lost. They don't have any personality, any hopes, any dreams.

They fail to be living, breathing characters in a fantasy world. They're nothing but pixels holding different weapons, with slightly different colored and styled hair. I just...I can't get attached to something that has nothing to get attached to.

Not that your point is wrong, of course. I just don't like having to be told "you write the game/characters" when I'm playing what's meant to be an already-created fantasy story...and one that's not from 20 years ago, but from 8.

Edited March 29, 2017 by Extrasolar

[ChibiToastExplosion]

8 minutes ago, Extrasolar said:

Not that your point is wrong, of course.

Neither is yours!

LIke I said, I get it, I just wanted to offer a different point of view (and from my point of view, the jedi are evil!).

[Harvey]

8 hours ago, Extrasolar said:

I disagree here. Many, many people (myself included) who played Shadow Dragon were disappointed with the lack of changes to the base game.

If you have played the original, surely someone like yourself could have noticed a lot of the changes that the remake did. Its the first game to introduce reclassing units for one thing and it was also the first game in the series to have online gameplay. I won't go too much into this but again, majority of its problems lies in its graphics and the gaiden chapters.

8 hours ago, Extrasolar said:

've never heard anyone saying that FE "didn't do anything new," prior to SD, considering Radiant Dawn and Path of Radiance were very much different from the GBA games, and the GBA games were very much different from the Kaga games. Where exactly did you hear this?

Western reviewers complained that Sacred Stones didn't do anything new compared to the previous game and the same complaints were that of PoR as well.

7 hours ago, Extrasolar said:

They fail to be living, breathing characters in a fantasy world. They're nothing but pixels holding different weapons, with slightly different colored and styled hair. I just...I can't get attached to something that has nothing to get attached

Raven's personality is bland but I love that character to death and it only took the character design and his stats to compensate for his lack of character. If SD's visuals weren't that ugly and had amazing art as that of New Mystery of the Emblem instead, I seriously doubt that adding a support system to SD would have made SD a better game.

The same goes for Geese as well. Character wise, he's just bland but his design on the other hand is just that good.

What about Camilla? As poor of a character she is, her character design is likable. So art comes to part of the character design as well.

9 hours ago, Extrasolar said:

Well Street Fighter II wasn't "supposed" to have combos able to be done, but they were, and it was such a well-received and loved part of the game that it transformed the fighting game scene and the rest of the series as a whole. Even if the original game wasn't "supposed" to/didn't originally have supports, it doesn't change the fact that supports are hugely well-received and popular by the FE community as a whole, and thus is one of the things that affects sales positively.

The reason why those combos happened is because of them being bugs and someone thought that it was fun. If combos weren't added, the game would've still been fun just like the previous game and who knows really? Personally after the horrible bombing of SFV and seeing how Capcom is milking MH more than any other IP out there, I doubt that they will treat SF as their important IP.

SD still doesn't need supports. All it needed was adding better visuals like how I mentioned and adding more backstory to each unit and that alone doesn't require having supports as you think it should. But instead, those gaiden chapters and the generic units that came along are what ruined the remake to some extent and again I haven't played the game but just observing some of the game's footage and the reviews alone is making me want to try out the original game instead of its remake if you ask me because unlike a lot of people, I respect creativity. I'm not someone who's played Super Metroid and bash down Fusion or Zero Mission because I respect the devs decision to make those games linear unlike Super Metroid so long as they can make it feel like a Metroid game.

Also, RD added supports but bombed harder than SD so what's your excuse to the former game? Lack of marketing? Yeah maybe...but I can tell that its more than just that.

 

 

[Pikappa93]

3 hours ago, Harvey said:

What about Camilla? As poor of a character she is, her character design is likable. So art comes to part of the character design as well.

I wouldn't say Camilla was a poor character, rather she is a victim of Fates bad writing which gave more focus on her Corrin obsession and fanservice in general.

3 hours ago, Harvey said:

Also, RD added supports but bombed harder than SD so what's your excuse to the former game? Lack of marketing? Yeah maybe...but I can tell that its more than just that.

Radiant Dawn supports were criticized for how they were extremely generic and did not add any character development. Moreover, RD was a sequel to a title which did have supports the way we know now, so it's only natural it was seen as a stepdown.

Anyway, back in topic, despite all arumentations I really can't see how adding supports in Echoes would be a bad thing. It's not they're removing anything, they're just adding things to give a proper development to characters that in the original Gaiden had one line of dialogue at most.

[Harvey]

5 minutes ago, Pikappa93 said:

I wouldn't say Camilla was a poor character, rather she is a victim of Fates bad writing which gave more focus on her Corrin obsession and fanservice in general.

I know that...honestly, if people carefully look at her supports, she isn't always blabbering about Corrin. The point that I was trying to make is that poor personalities

 

 doesn't necessarily make a character bad.

15 minutes ago, Pikappa93 said:

I wouldn't say Camilla was a poor character, rather she is a victim of Fates bad writing which gave more focus on her Corrin obsession and fanservice in general.

Radiant Dawn supports were criticized for how they were extremely generic and did not add any character development. Moreover, RD was a sequel to a title which did have supports the way we know now, so it's only natural it was seen as a stepdown.

Anyway, back in topic, despite all arumentations I really can't see how adding supports in Echoes would be a bad thing. It's not they're removing anything, they're just adding things to give a proper development to characters that in the original Gaiden had one line of dialogue at most.

Like I said, its probably more than that that caused the game to bomb so hard.

The argument here is that Echoes doesn't really need supports for it to be a good game and devs shouldn't shoehorn a feature that they made in later games and put it on a game that wasn't suppose to have it. It only means that the devs fear that the support options are needed for the fanbase to enjoy the game better and really if you ask me, I'd be fine if they didn't have supports.

And even so, as I asked earlier, how are they going to do supports here?

 

 

[Pikappa93]

23 minutes ago, Harvey said:

And even so, as I asked earlier, how are they going to do supports here?

We know from Dutch Comic Con that support conversations occur during battles as some people who played the demo saw Kliff/Tobin C-support. It appears to be something similar to GBA supports, but we really don't know what kind of boost they give during combat.

[Tamanoir]

4 hours ago, Harvey said:

I know that...honestly, if people carefully look at her supports, she isn't always blabbering about Corrin. The point that I was trying to make is that poor personalities

 

 doesn't necessarily make a character bad.

Like I said, its probably more than that that caused the game to bomb so hard.

The argument here is that Echoes doesn't really need supports for it to be a good game and devs shouldn't shoehorn a feature that they made in later games and put it on a game that wasn't suppose to have it. It only means that the devs fear that the support options are needed for the fanbase to enjoy the game better and really if you ask me, I'd be fine if they didn't have supports.

And even so, as I asked earlier, how are they going to do supports here?

 

 

Having a bland personnality isn't the same as having no personality. It's not necessarily better or worse, but it's two different things.

You don't know if they're shoehorned actually. You treat this as if it's obviously a moneygrab, and pure fanservice, but you have no proof of this. As well as I have no proof of the contrary. They add a lot to the story, including all new characters (whether this is a good or bad thing, it's too early to tell.), and they are generally expanding on the story. It's not going too far to think they may have added support to expand even more this story. At least a part of those.

Thinking that all supports are due purely to the creative minds' own desires is as ridiculous as seeing them all as forced.

My issue with what you're saying is that you seems to consider the sole presesence of supports as inherently as bad thing.