Fire Emblem Heroes General Discussion and Links

[Anacybele]

5 minutes ago, shadowofchaos said:

Ana has this unfortunate mindset that "If it doesn't work for me, they suck".

lol are you wrong here. If a unit DID work well, why would I say they suck? It makes more sense to say that the ones that aren't working suck, but them not working for me is not the actual reason that they suck. Their stats are merely not satisfactory as far as I can see and thus I think they probably wouldn't work for other people either.

4 minutes ago, Kiran said:

I think we're getting on Ana's case a bit here. Clearly Sophia isn't anybody's top choice. In fact, I would bet that even with SI she's still sub optimal. But Ana isn't going to be doing SI and for her purposes, Sophia isn't a great unit.

And this. Thank you, good sir.

Edited April 12, 2017 by Anacybele

[Ice Dragon]

5 minutes ago, Thor Odinson said:

That still requires the f2p to have a spare Roy they're willing to part with lying around, though. At 4*-5* he's not the easiest roll, either. 

You can use Triangle Adept 2 from Selena and get a similar effect. She'll basically deal 2 less damage and take 4 more damage, which isn't a big deal.

[GaleforceAbuse]

1 minute ago, MaskedAmpharos said:

Btw, moving off of Sophia, @Anacybele I seem to remember you used to say you had trouble with mages because your units all had low resistance?

In that case, I think Niles would be perfect for you because his specialty is precisely tanking and killing mages (while his low def won't be as much of an issue because your other, high def units, like Frederick, can tank those physical hits for him.

I tried using Niles a while back, but his base attack is just too low. He can't one-round any mage without a skill proc or some attack buffs. As sad as it is, the best anti-mage unit is probably one of the high-RES mages (Julia, Sanaki, Lilina, or even Sophia.) Or either a powerful ranged unit with Vantage or someone who just takes a mage out on the Player Phase.

[GinRei]

2 minutes ago, Thor Odinson said:

But I was not addressing your comment. I was specifically addressing the bit about Ice Dragon's builds because using him is not a great example of what normal people can achieve.

If we're talking about sacrificing 100k worth of feathers for 5-star units to get the best skills, sure.  But this was literally a single 4-star unit, or a single 5-star version of other units.  Can be made better with a 5-star Henry.  While that's not "guaranteed", nothing is as far as SI goes.  And it's not like he was suggesting to put Close Counter or Distant Counter on her or anything.  Can't pretend that SI doesn't exist just because some people may not have what they need.

[Anacybele]

4 minutes ago, MaskedAmpharos said:

Btw, moving off of Sophia, @Anacybele I seem to remember you used to say you had trouble with mages because your units all had low resistance?

In that case, I think Niles would be perfect for you because his specialty is precisely tanking and killing mages (while his low def won't be as much of an issue because your other, high def units, like Frederick, can tank those physical hits for him.

Yeah, you have a point there. But the guy just creeps me the hell out (his art in this game doesn't help either. Those bony lumpy fingers ugh gross) and I don't even see anybody use him in the arena or anything. I'm sure with skill inheritance, he can work, since certain people here are arguing such for characters, but I don't have the resources.

[Thor Odinson]

3 minutes ago, GinRei said:

If we're talking about sacrificing 100k worth of feathers for 5-star units to get the best skills, sure.  But this was literally a single 4-star unit, or a single 5-star version of other units.  Can be made better with a 5-star Henry.  While that's not "guaranteed", nothing is as far as SI goes.  And it's not like he was suggesting to put Close Counter or Distant Counter on her or anything.  Can't pretend that SI doesn't exist just because some people may not have what they need.

Of course not, but if you're giving advice to a specific person of how to use a unit, then you need to tailor it to what the other person actually has and what they're willing to part with. SI advice works better with people who actually show up with "this is what I have, what should I do?"

I mean, that is what the SI thread is for. Or at least asking what the other person has available to them.

Edited April 12, 2017 by Thor Odinson

[shadowofchaos]

7 minutes ago, Othin said:

I know that's the sort of thing some people do, but personally, I don't expect to ever have enough feathers that I'd be happy spending 20k on inheriting a weapon rather than on getting a new permanent character to 5*. I'm also not really looking for -raven users, anyway. Hector takes care of colorless and blues just fine.

Regardless of details regarding Sophia's actual value... the fact that someone else is willing to debate said value effectively means that her value is not zero like Ana implied.

*ESPECIALLY* when someone's roster is limited (due to her sending heroes home or not even bothering to do daily hero events) and Sophia is like "Hi, I'm a red mage. You need a red mage/bonus character for the arena."

And especially when she complains in another thread that heh that the arena is "bugged" with matchups.

Edited April 12, 2017 by shadowofchaos

[GinRei]

Just now, Thor Odinson said:

Of course not, but if you're giving advice to a specific person of how to use a unit, then you need to tailor it to what the other person actually has and what they're willing to part with. SI advice works better with people who actually show up with "this is what I have, what should I do"?

This wasn't advice, though.  It was refuting a claim that a character sucks.  Period; not sucks without SI, just sucks.

[MaskedAmpharos]

2 minutes ago, GaleforceAbuse said:

I tried using Niles a while back, but his base attack is just too low. He can't one-round any mage without a skill proc or some attack buffs. As sad as it is, the best anti-mage unit is probably one of the high-RES mages (Julia, Sanaki, Lilina, or even Sophia.) Or either a powerful ranged unit with Vantage or someone who just takes a mage out on the Player Phase.

1) His main source of damage admittedly is his Iceberg skill proc, but he has a Killer Bow and high speed to help him get there (in fact, with Killer Bow and enough speed to double, he can proc Iceberg in one round of combat).

2) I also agree that units like Julia are better anti-mages, but those are 5* units that many people wouldn't have. Niles, on the other hand, is a unit available to literally everyone at 3* with the S quests.

Just now, Anacybele said:

Yeah, you have a point there. But the guy just creeps me the hell out (his art in this game doesn't help either. Those bony lumpy fingers ugh gross) and I don't even see anybody use him in the arena or anything. I'm sure with skill inheritance, he can work, since certain people here are arguing such for characters, but I don't have the resources.

Not seeing him in the Arena doesn't necessarily mean all that much. You said you didn't see Reinhardt until recently, but he's an extremely dangerous unit. Same with many other units.

Frederick is a unit I never, ever see in Arena, but you wouldn't say he sucks, right?

In any case, if you don't like Niles as a character and don't want to use him for that reason, then of course you don't have to. But if your issue is with how he is as a unit, I would at least give him a fair chance first. 

[Anacybele]

1 minute ago, MaskedAmpharos said:

Not seeing him in the Arena doesn't necessarily mean all that much. You said you didn't see Reinhardt until recently, but he's an extremely dangerous unit. Same with many other units.

Frederick is a unit I never, ever see in Arena, but you wouldn't say he sucks, right?

In any case, if you don't like Niles as a character and don't want to use him for that reason, then of course you don't have to. But if your issue is with how he is as a unit, I would at least give him a fair chance first. 

Touche. I definitely wouldn't say Freddy sucks. Without skill inheritance, he's probably rather average, but not bad. With SI is another story, of course.

Well, I have to use him if I want to get Cecilia and those 5 quest orbs, so he will get a chance.

[Kiran]

4 minutes ago, GinRei said:

This wasn't advice, though.  It was refuting a claim that a character sucks.  Period; not sucks without SI, just sucks.

See the problem I have with this statement is that ANY character is okay with SI. When comparing all the units with their optimal SI, Sophia still ranks near the bottom. 

[MaskedAmpharos]

Just now, Kiran said:

See the problem I have with this statement is that ANY character is okay with SI. When comparing all the units with their optimal SI, Sophia still ranks near the bottom. 

I don't think it's always productive to be comparing units with other similar units though unless you have a reasonable chance of getting all of them.

Sure, Sophia's arguably not nearly as universally useful as Sanaki or Lilina assuming all of them have optimized inherited skills, but not everyone can get Sanaki or Lilina.

If Sophia's the best red mage you have, then I think it's important to think about how you can make her good rather than just saying "I won't bother because there are better red mages out there". 

[RipTide]

1 hour ago, r_n said:

Man it is going to take ages to get Celica & Subaki up to the caliber to tackle level 35 enemies. Thankfully it's only 5 each. Guess I'll get them to the 35 range and then put buffers to good use.

Its pretty easy to lvl a character to lvl 30ish you can start tackling lvl 35 enemies from 30+. Took me less than 1 hour of gameplay to lvl lvl 1 3* subaki to lvl 32 and finished the quest easily. Dancer+ lvl healer plus lvl 40 mage tank (m robin) lets me kill enemis easily. 

[GinRei]

1 minute ago, Kiran said:

See the problem I have with this statement is that ANY character is okay with SI. When comparing all the units with their optimal SI, Sophia still ranks near the bottom. 

Except, as SoC and IceDragon have shown, she isn't that low.  She's arguably the current optimal Red Raven tome user.

[RipTide]

2 hours ago, L9999 said:

For all I care IS planned padding colorless with horrid healers so we couldn't pull Takumi or Kagero.

Yea they totally did that on purpose! Im afraid to pull colorless cause of the horrible staff users, and my favorite characters are all the archers ;(

[Elieson]

34 minutes ago, shadowofchaos said:

Deathless run would have been donefor without her.

I don't have any other red mages.

Not to mention I don't have focus units that aren't level 1.

Each unit has value. Sophia is less than optimal because of her AVAILABILITY as a free unit and less than stellar rarity.

She's bad because she's not SS/S/A/B tier.

In this game, basically everybody is good/salvagable, so 

Just now, GinRei said:

Except, as SoC and IceDragon have shown, she isn't that low.  She's arguably the current optimal Red Raven tome user.

Bottom line though is that she's a low demand unit. Red tome users aren't in high demand in the arena, since so many teams run 2 blues (Effies, Sharenas, Nowis, Ephraims) vs 1 Green (Hector, Julia) and 1 Red (Swordlord). She counters Green relatively well, but since virtually any Swordie can do it, and with days less of investment and effort, plus go even with relatively every other Swordlord, her demand as a second Red is super low.

[immatx]

None of the units in the upcoming banner are green are they? If not I might try to pull for Hector by hunting greens.....

RIP orb stash

[Kiran]

1 minute ago, MaskedAmpharos said:

I don't think it's always productive to be comparing units with other similar units though unless you have a reasonable chance of getting all of them.

Sure, Sophia's arguably not nearly as universally useful as Sanaki or Lilina assuming all of them have optimized inherited skills, but not everyone can get Sanaki or Lilina.

If Sophia's the best red mage you have, then I think it's important to think about how you can make her good rather than just saying "I won't bother because there are better red mages out there". 

Whether you have a unit or not is not a factor of a unit's usability. Sure, I get that you have to make do with what you have. But saying "Sophia is the best red mage I have" is different from "Sophia doesn't suck".  

 

3 minutes ago, GinRei said:

Except, as SoC and IceDragon have shown, she isn't that low.  She's arguably the current optimal Red Raven tome user.

So? That's an incredibly small niche. You want a better raven user? Use a M/F Robin. They can at least tank a hit from an opponent due to not getting doubled by everyone. Plus they have higher def and higher atk. But I would submit that Raigh might be better. Why? Lower def but higher speed, meaning he's not getting doubled. 

[Zero1k]

Finally got all the seals. Now I'll just train Cecilia and I'll train Subaki later.

I know it may be very unlikely, but I just thought about the possibility of Close/Distant Counter seals.

[MaskedAmpharos]

1 minute ago, Zero1000 said:

I know it may be very unlikely, but I just thought about the possibility of Close/Distant Counter seals.

Please no.

[JSND Alter Dragon Boner]

Internet. garbage. Post. Doubled.

Edited April 12, 2017 by JSND
double posting

[Kiran]

1 minute ago, Zero1000 said:

I know it may be very unlikely, but I just thought about the possibility of Close/Distant Counter seals.

This is how IS will break the game. Having easy access for distant counter....

[JSND Alter Dragon Boner]

24 minutes ago, MaskedAmpharos said:

1) His main source of damage admittedly is his Iceberg skill proc, but he has a Killer Bow and high speed to help him get there (in fact, with Killer Bow and enough speed to double, he can proc Iceberg in one round of combat).

2) I also agree that units like Julia are better anti-mages, but those are 5* units that many people wouldn't have. Niles, on the other hand, is a unit available to literally everyone at 3* with the S quests.

Not seeing him in the Arena doesn't necessarily mean all that much. You said you didn't see Reinhardt until recently, but he's an extremely dangerous unit. Same with many other units.

Frederick is a unit I never, ever see in Arena, but you wouldn't say he sucks, right?

 

Isnt Frederick essentially a "why the fuck won't you made him into Gunter" right now?

Like seriously his weapon(Hammer), base skill, class, and afinity all points towards making him the ideal Gunter.

[GinRei]

1 minute ago, Kiran said:

So? That's an incredibly small niche. You want a better raven user? Use a M/F Robin. They can at least tank a hit from an opponent due to not getting doubled by everyone. Plus they have higher def and higher atk. But I would submit that Raigh might be better. Why? Lower def but higher speed, meaning he's not getting doubled. 

The Robins aren't red.  That'd be like saying "Why use Tharja when you can use Nino?"  Colors matter for team composition.

Also, the Robins only have 1 higher defense, and actually have 4 less attack (not to mention 7 less resistance).  Raigh has 6 less defense than Sophia, and defense is what makes these units the better Raven users.  Not sure why speed is suddenly important, when people are more than happy to use a -SPD Robin.  You aren't using these units to tank everything, just the things Triangle Adept gets a bonus from.

And as far as Raigh goes, the only thing he has going for him other Tharja is higher resistance.  Otherwise, she'd be his equal or better in every other regard.

[MaskedAmpharos]

1 minute ago, JSND said:

Isnt Frederick essentially a "why the fuck won't you made him into Gunter" right now?

Like seriously his weapon(Hammer), base skill, class, and afinity all points towards making him the ideal Gunter.

I mean that's basically what I did with him.

He's more or less just my Hone Cavalry mule on my cavalry team (Eldigan, Reinhardt, Gronnblade Cecilia).