Fire Emblem Heroes General Discussion and Links

[Thor Odinson]

Just now, Ice Dragon said:

There's no rule saying that the idle art needs to be a neutral pose. She could very well just be in the middle of turning around from someone pointing a camera at her and telling her to look hither.

And she'll fall over right after. You really can't pull it off without a firm foundation of feet apart. There's really no excuse to use that specific pose--it pretty much exists for titillation and not much else. Better to just own up to it than trying to excuse why she's in it, really.

[Kaden]

Catria's idle artwork makes me think she's looking back or perhaps turning to look back at you as she walks away. I don't know what she's like since I never played any of the games she's been in other than Heroes, but it works for a someone who seems quite quiet and pretty awkward at times. Then again, she shares the same voice actress as Felicia and Setsuna and they're all dorks.

But yeah, I can see why the art is there for fanservice. Then again, who doesn't have fanservice art? You've got your muscular, ripped males like Barst and Hawkeye, badass old men with unique special art, comic book Arthur, cute as hell Ninian, and shoujo and other genre artists for characters like Rebecca and Niles was done by a yaoi artist, right? It's all fanservice, so drool to your heart's content. :P

Edited April 19, 2017 by Kaden

[Ice Dragon]

1 minute ago, Thor Odinson said:

And she'll fall over right after. You really can't pull it off without a firm foundation of feet apart. There's really no excuse to use that specific pose--it pretty much exists for titillation and not much else. Better to just own up to it than trying to excuse why she's in it, really.

From what I can tell, her shoulders and hips are a bit under 90 degrees rotated from each other. I believe that much is entirely doable without losing your balance. She's using the momentum of turning her upper body to stabilize herself while lifting up her right leg to step toward the viewer.

Whether or not the pose was used for fanservice isn't relevant to the argument of whether the pose is physically possible or situationally plausible, and I argue that it is both physically possible and situationally plausible. The fanservice argument only applies to why the artist chose this pose in the first place, and that has nothing to do with my argument.

[GinRei]

It's not that hard to stand on one foot while turning around.

Also, why is it that Catria gets obsessed over for an "unrealistic" pose, while:

• Linde (crossing legs while walking... pretty sure that's not normal in the slightest)
• F!Corrin (basically Catria's exact pose)
• Serra (don't think you can stand or walk at the angle she's standing)

Are all given a pass?  Don't try to use a "pose isn't realistic" argument when you just don't like that her butt is prominent in her image.

[Arcanite]

5 minutes ago, GinRei said:

It's not that hard to stand on one foot while turning around.

*Can confirm! Just tested it myself!

[Thor Odinson]

17 minutes ago, GinRei said:

It's not that hard to stand on one foot while turning around.

Also, why is it that Catria gets obsessed over for an "unrealistic" pose, while:

• Linde (crossing legs while walking... pretty sure that's not normal in the slightest)
• F!Corrin (basically Catria's exact pose)
• Serra (don't think you can stand or walk at the angle she's standing)

Are all given a pass?  Don't try to use a "pose isn't realistic" argument when you just don't like that her butt is prominent in her image.

I have mentioned FCorn a bunch of times for the same exact pose in the Least favorite redesign thread, actually. Linde I admittedly haven't actually looked at much in detail (due to not having her) . Serra's art I'm also not fond of overall, whether pose or stylistically. Just because I'm not talking about them right now doesn't mean I'm giving them a pass. 

Edited April 19, 2017 by Thor Odinson

[Ice Dragon]

13 minutes ago, GinRei said:

Linde (crossing legs while walking... pretty sure that's not normal in the slightest)

I'm more concerned about her ballet step. Neither foot is planted on the ground and at no point while one is walking are both of your feet off the ground at the same time. This means her left foot must be on the ground, and all of her weight is currently on the tip of her left shoe.

Or she's floating.

 

18 minutes ago, GinRei said:

Serra (don't think you can stand or walk at the angle she's standing)

Serra is actually in the middle of falling over. She just doesn't realize it yet. Her left foot just landed off the edge of whatever precipice (or staircase, I suppose) she's standing at the edge of.

[immatx]

1 hour ago, shadowofchaos said:

Speaking of Joker/Jakob's art... that crap looks straight out of Jojo.

SHOW ME THE POWER OF YOUR STAND.

Fits his usage of "Temee" and his rude language in general.

BRUH IS THAT A JOJO'S REFERENCE?!?!?!

sorry I had too.....

Edit: @Ice Dragon Serra not yet knowing she's falling over makes perfect sense with her character too. 

Edited April 19, 2017 by immatx

[shadowofchaos]

17 minutes ago, immatx said:

BRUH IS THAT A JOJO'S REFERENCE?!?!?!

sorry I had too.....

Edit: @Ice Dragon Serra not yet knowing she's falling over makes perfect sense with her character too. 

Joker

J o k e r

J o   e   r

J o e      r

J o e s t a r

Joestar

[Othin]

39 minutes ago, GinRei said:

It's not that hard to stand on one foot while turning around.

Also, why is it that Catria gets obsessed over for an "unrealistic" pose, while:

• Linde (crossing legs while walking... pretty sure that's not normal in the slightest)
• F!Corrin (basically Catria's exact pose)
• Serra (don't think you can stand or walk at the angle she's standing)

Are all given a pass?  Don't try to use a "pose isn't realistic" argument when you just don't like that her butt is prominent in her image.

Catria's pose tends to be more attention-grabbing, causing people to notice the issues faster. It doesn't mean anyone is giving the others a pass.

"What about this other thing" arguments never have any merit and are only a distraction.

[GinRei]

4 minutes ago, Othin said:

Catria's pose tends to be more attention-grabbing, causing people to notice the issues faster. It doesn't mean anyone is giving the others a pass.

"What about this other thing" arguments never have any merit and are only a distraction.

When the argument is that it isn't a realistic pose, despite being one, it very much has merit.  Because Catria has one aspect that the others don't, which is that her outfit exemplifies her butt, which as you said is more attention grabbing.  But it's not the pose that does this (since, as said, F!Corrin has the same pose), it's her outfit hugging her butt.  It's about arguing the actual thing you're against rather than trying to blame something else.

Now, I don't visit the redesign thread, so if Thor Odinson has already mentioned them and disliked them as well then so be it.  But anyone who ignores those others and focuses on Catria clearly doesn't care about the pose itself.

[r_n]

I was looking through the tomes available, and I hadn't notice that every mage seems to have their own tome. Either a prf tome or the only one to have a normal tome. The only exceptoins I can find are the FE5 thunder twins, who both get Dire Thunder.

It's just silly is all i'm sayin'

[Othin]

3 minutes ago, GinRei said:

When the argument is that it isn't a realistic pose, despite being one, it very much has merit.  Because Catria has one aspect that the others don't, which is that her outfit exemplifies her butt, which as you said is more attention grabbing.  But it's not the pose that does this (since, as said, F!Corrin has the same pose), it's her outfit hugging her butt.  It's about arguing the actual thing you're against rather than trying to blame something else.

Now, I don't visit the redesign thread, so if Thor Odinson has already mentioned them and disliked them as well then so be it.  But anyone who ignores those others and focuses on Catria clearly doesn't care about the pose itself.

You keep jumping to ridiculous conclusions. Thinking Catria's image is worse than others with similar poses does not mean someone "clearly doesn't care about the post itself". It just means they aren't treating it as the only factor.

[wizzard of soz]

to put my two cents in, i just tried to do Catria's pose in the mirror for fun and only got about 4/5ths there and my spine did not like it. at the best, it's not a natural nor comfortable pose. but generally in art, especially anime or other stylistic art, the anatomy doesn't conform to reality 100% because reality doesn't look as cool or sexu. this isn't just true of fanservice-y poses but action poses too. action poses are like..totally unrealistic but they look cool -shrug-

Stahl has bothered me as well, that does not look comfortable at all bud

[Anacybele]

I was more concerned about how skinny Stahl's ankles must be. :/ They don't look like they can hold him up at all! His feet look pretty flat too.

Edited April 19, 2017 by Anacybele

[r_n]

3 minutes ago, wizzard of soz said:

to put my two cents in, i just tried to do Catria's pose in the mirror for fun and only got about 4/5ths there and my spine did not like it. at the best, it's not a natural nor comfortable pose. but generally in art, especially anime or other stylistic art, the anatomy doesn't conform to reality 100% because reality doesn't look as cool or sexu. this isn't just true of fanservice-y poses but action poses too. action poses are like..totally unrealistic but they look cool -shrug-

Stahl has bothered me as well, that does not look comfortable at all bud

I remember first seeing Stahl's attack pose and just laughing and laughing. The boob n butt pose has always been laughable, but seeing it on a guy in mostly fully armor just accents how absurd it is to me. Also with his face just going <:T

[Thor Odinson]

Just got home, did the pose just to make sure. I'm not sure those of you who are actually claiming to be able to do the pose as actually faithfully replicating the full pose (3/4 front ass to 3/4 front torso) or are secretly super gymnasts or something because that is clearly a lot more than a 90 degree bend. As a martial arts enthusiast I can only do about 4/5 way with legs wide and planted, and 1/2 boob to maybe 3/5 ass at most if planted. Attempted the step, and had to take a much wider step in addition to bend backwards to pull it off. Can't do it straight up. And now I have back pain. 

Never noticed Stahl's pose but wow 

I mean Mayo's a good artist overall but sometimes her poses are pretty iffy so I guess I shouldn't be surprised but yeah that doesn't look fun

5 minutes ago, r_n said:

I was looking through the tomes available, and I hadn't notice that every mage seems to have their own tome. Either a prf tome or the only one to have a normal tome. The only exceptoins I can find are the FE5 thunder twins, who both get Dire Thunder.

It's just silly is all i'm sayin'

I think that's more of a testament to how little mages we have right now compared to physical units

there will probably be repeats once more non-prf-holding mages are added

[Ice Dragon]

1 minute ago, r_n said:

I was looking through the tomes available, and I hadn't notice that every mage seems to have their own tome. Either a prf tome or the only one to have a normal tome. The only exceptoins I can find are the FE5 thunder twins, who both get Dire Thunder.

It's just silly is all i'm sayin'

There aren't enough mages currently implemented in the game to give out duplicate (non-unique) final weapons while also having all weapons represented.

 

Just now, wizzard of soz said:

to put my two cents in, i just tried to do Catria's pose in the mirror for fun and only got about 4/5ths there and my spine did not like it. at the best, it's not a natural nor comfortable pose. but generally in art, especially anime or other stylistic art, the anatomy doesn't conform to reality 100% because reality doesn't look as cool or sexu. this isn't just true of fanservice-y poses but action poses too. action poses are like..totally unrealistic but they look cool -shrug-

Artistic license is often employed to improve the composition of the art as art. Most notably in portrayals of action, exaggeration allows you to better portray movement or "exertion of force" even when the exact pose is not physically possible.

There's also the case that that certain angles are more pleasing because they have less foreshortening. Breasts, for example, have a bit more oomph to them when not turned between 60 to 80 degrees away from the viewer because at those angles, the one in front doesn't completely cover the one behind it, leaving an awkward sliver shape (a.k.a. I hate drawing this angle because it never looks "right" even if it's accurate to life). At a lower angle, the closer one doesn't overlap enough to matter and at a higher angle, the farther one is no longer visible.

 

Just now, Thor Odinson said:

because that is clearly a lot more than a 90 degree bend.

The shoulders face to the right more than they face towards the viewer. The hips face more or less 45 degrees away from the viewer. That's less than 90 degrees.

It can be easy to mistake the shoulders as facing more towards the viewer than they actually because of her pauldrons making her shoulders look wider, thus giving the illusion of facing more towards the viewer.

[Ice Dragon]

EDIT: Woo lag.

Edited April 19, 2017 by Ice Dragon

[Thor Odinson]

1 minute ago, Ice Dragon said:

The shoulders face to the right more than they face towards the viewer. The hips face more or less 45 degrees away from the viewer. That's less than 90 degrees.

It can be easy to mistake the shoulders as facing more towards the viewer than they actually because of her pauldrons making her shoulders look wider, thus giving the illusion of facing more towards the viewer.

I was looking more at the torso/chest area and aligning that with my own as I did the bend. If the shoulders and hips don't align as the chest area do, then that's even a bigger marker of incorrect anatomy. A < 45 bend in the chest area would not result in that much of the breastplate being visible, unless she's a lot wider than we thought.

[Kiran]

30 minutes ago, r_n said:

I was looking through the tomes available, and I hadn't notice that every mage seems to have their own tome. Either a prf tome or the only one to have a normal tome. The only exceptoins I can find are the FE5 thunder twins, who both get Dire Thunder.

It's just silly is all i'm sayin'

Lilina's and Sophia's tome have no difference yet they have different names :/

Edited April 19, 2017 by Kiran

[shadowofchaos]

4 minutes ago, Kiran said:

Lilina's and Sophia's tome have no difference yet they have different names :/

The animations?

Nosferatu (Fenrir in English) and Bolganone are pretty different.

[wizzard of soz]

18 minutes ago, Anacybele said:

I was more concerned about how skinny Stahl's ankles must be. :/ They don't look like they can hold him up at all! His feet look pretty flat too.

haha, everyone's art in the game seems to have skinny lil ankles to me, so i didn't notice. the feet are definitely..strange..

16 minutes ago, r_n said:

I remember first seeing Stahl's attack pose and just laughing and laughing. The boob n butt pose has always been laughable, but seeing it on a guy in mostly fully armor just accents how absurd it is to me. Also with his face just going <:T

pff same. i'm all the for that gender equality, if the girls have to be subjected to boob n' butt then it's only fair. it's still ridiculous on both though :P

 

7 minutes ago, Ice Dragon said:

Artistic license is often employed to improve the composition of the art as art. Most notably in portrayals of action, exaggeration allows you to better portray movement or "exertion of force" even when the exact pose is not physically possible.

There's also the case that that certain angles are more pleasing because they have less foreshortening. Breasts, for example, have a bit more oomph to them when not turned between 60 to 80 degrees away from the viewer because at those angles, the one in front doesn't completely cover the one behind it, leaving an awkward sliver shape (a.k.a. I hate drawing this angle because it never looks "right" even if it's accurate to life). At a lower angle, the closer one doesn't overlap enough to matter and at a higher angle, the farther one is no longer visible.

i know, exactly what i'm saying. as an artist myself, i am totally unexcempt from doing these things and empathize with people that do. i totally understand the stuff about how the angle never looks "right" even though it's accurate to life. i rarely use references to draw, but when i do, i'm like "what the?? what is this, it doesn't look right at all, time to just do my own thing." unless you're doing realistic art, reality is more of a guideline than anything. even in semi-realistic art, which i consider mine to be, it just doesn't mesh that well.

[Ice Dragon]

3 minutes ago, Thor Odinson said:

I was looking more at the torso/chest area and aligning that with my own as I did the bend. If the shoulders and hips don't align as the chest area do, then that's even a bigger marker of incorrect anatomy. A < 45 bend in the chest area would not result in that much of the breastplate being visible, unless she's a lot wider than we thought.

The breastplate seems to be fine to me. The angle on her damaged art appears to be pretty close to 45 degrees, and this one is turned a bit more away from the viewer. The breastplate also appears to be attached to the paudrons (judging by how in her damaged art, her pauldrons align with her chest and not with her arms, albeit weirdly), meaning that turning her shoulders farther than her chest would result in the breastplate being pulled in that direction.

And that just means that her chest is facing even farther away from the viewer than her shoulders, which makes the pose less difficult to perform.

 

11 minutes ago, Kiran said:

Lilina's and Sophia's tome have no difference yet they have different names :/

Functionally, no, but Bolganone and Fenrir are different from a flavor perspective (one being a fire tome and the other being a dark tome) and have different animations. It wouldn't make sense to default Bolganone to Sophia or Fenrir to Lilina.

You can technically argue that Iron Sword, Iron Lance, and Iron Axe also have no difference (outside of having different limitations to inheritance) because weapon type in this game is linked to the character and not to the weapon (as evidenced by the fact that a weapon-less unit is still affected by the weapon triangle and the fact that dragons keep their weapon type even when their weapon is changed).

[r_n]

1 minute ago, Ice Dragon said:

Functionally, no, but Bolganone and Fenrir are different from a flavor perspective (one being a fire tome and the other being a dark tome) and have different animations. It wouldn't make sense to default Bolganone to Sophia or Fenrir to Lilina.

You can technically argue that Iron Sword, Iron Lance, and Iron Axe also have no difference (outside of having different limitations to inheritance) because weapon type in this game is linked to the character and not to the weapon (as evidenced by the fact that a weapon-less unit is still affected by the weapon triangle and the fact that dragons keep their weapon type even when their weapon is changed).

I feel like that's not an equal argument considering Lilliana & Sophia are both red mages

 

I'm actually surprised they didn't give Lilly Forblaze. If they're going to differentiate the mages like this, and don't want anima & dark magic to mix, may as well give the heroine of FE6 the special fire tome eh?