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1 hour ago, Ice Dragon said:

Nephenee is far too popular to be a 3-to-4-star unit.

I totally get your logic, but this raises a problem. If very popular generally equals 5 star, and banners generally feature popular characters, then we're going to need an unpopular banner (an oxymoron) to get the 4 pool significantly expanded.

As someone else pointed out, the 5 pool needs only 8 more chars to equal (or was it surpass?) the 4 pool in size. That's a little ridiculous when you consider there is only a 3% chance of getting any 5 Star on any roll. It should have a more than marginally smaller pool than the 4 Stars due to the incredibly low chance of getting one.

 

I guess it was easy to wow players in the early days of Heroes since it was brand new, but now they need to increasingly add more pizazz to keep the players entertained. Which includes doing things like the CYL freebie and Elincia and Nephenee having such naturally good kits.

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8 minutes ago, Interdimensional Observer said:

I totally get your logic, but this raises a problem. If very popular generally equals 5 star, and banners generally feature popular characters, then we're going to need an unpopular banner (an oxymoron) to get the 4 pool significantly expanded.

You say this as if this problem were brand new and not 7 months old. Not to mention this is entirely irrelevant to the original point.

The original post I was responding to was "if Nephenee were a launch character, she would have been a 3-to-4 star character". The growth of the 5-star pool has nothing to do with this.

Edited by Ice Dragon
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10 minutes ago, JSND Alter Dragon Boner said:

Make me wonder if they will give a good treatment to Finn

 

I mean most newer fans did not give a shit to him, but he DOES manage to get Top 10 in a popularity poll before

Do newer fans even care about any FE that was released before Binding Blade? I don't know if anyone would give a crap about Valentia if it weren't remade.

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5 minutes ago, Xenomata said:

Do newer fans even care about any FE that was released before Binding Blade? I don't know if anyone would give a crap about Valentia if it weren't remade.

Thats exactly my point

Finn is interesting because he had a weird combination of being popular for what he is(Top 10 on a popularity poll and even manages to outdo FE8 lord is no joke), while at the same time everything about FEH would screw him over(He WILL have Brave Lance and he had decent chance to have Miracle as his special for starter)

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2 minutes ago, Xenomata said:

Do newer fans even care about any FE that was released before Binding Blade? I don't know if anyone would give a crap about Valentia if it weren't remade.

To be fair, many of the pre-support era side characters had zero personality or character development.

18 minutes ago, Ice Dragon said:

The original post I was responding to was "if Nephenee were a launch character, she would have been a 3-to-4 star character". The growth of the 5-star pool has nothing to do with this.

She wouldn't have been a lock for the 3-4* slot, but she could have been.  There are several characters at her level of popularity that were 3-4*, then you have characters like Linde who was 187th (and 316th) place in the poll that is a 5* exclusive, so popularity wasn't the only measure that determined star availability.

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13 minutes ago, Rezzy said:

To be fair, many of the pre-support era side characters had zero personality or character development.

How very dare you? I'll have you know Thracia's development of Kein, Alva and Robert was just superb. It still brings tears to my eyes even today... 

 

...Couldn't resist, sorry xD I think that's why it'd be great to see more Jugdral characters in the game... but because of lack of character development, we'll only see the more popular ones who did actually get some, it feels... so a bit of a Catch 22 -.- 

Still praying for a remake to actually give a lot of these characters personality. Every other game has some, now, so just FE4 and 5 to go ^.^

Edited by Cute Chao
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11 minutes ago, Rezzy said:

To be fair, many of the pre-support era side characters had zero personality or character development.

Heck lets not use too far of an example

 

FE1 Marth literally have no personality.

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How the heck did Layla get 223rd (out of 791) place in the CYL poll?  She's above Catria, but Marthland characters get royally screwed by getting their votes split in half (just like Tellius).

Edited by Rezzy
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7 minutes ago, Xenomata said:

Do newer fans even care about any FE that was released before Binding Blade? I don't know if anyone would give a crap about Valentia if it weren't remade.

Not even Japan would care about Valentia if it hadn't been remade.

 

4 minutes ago, JSND Alter Dragon Boner said:

Finn is interesting because he had a weird combination of being popular for what he is(Top 10 on a popularity poll and even manages to outdo FE8 lord is no joke), while at the same time everything about FEH would screw him over(He WILL have Brave Lance and he had decent chance to have Miracle as his special for starter)

I wonder if to play up Finn they'd consider amping up his Brave Lance to an exclusive upgrade. The Brave Lance Mk III S 008L R4 Powered Altered Type 0 DGG4 Raven Reise Rein Boxer Gunner M Custom! Or just call it "Finn's (or Thracian) Brave".

Being more serious, DeNA likes handing out personal weapons. T776 (the game Finn would probably represent) makes the Brave Lance exclusive to him, so under those grounds they could augment it.

T776 does have a number of sweet personal weapons, but I'm expecting Lewyn and Ced to be spaced out and for Lewyn to come first. Grafcalibur is eh though Green, Light Brand (or Bragi Sword) is guaranteed, Runesword is locked to a staffbot and staff skills are incompatible with non staffs. Pugi is Green and cool, but is Orsin going to be appealing enough to warrant appearance/his personal? Holy Sword has the issue of being on Olwen who already is in with Dire Thunder. Thief Staff is on a nobody loli whose thing is misleading the player into thinking she was raped and just can't work in Heroes. Beo Sword is yet another Red legendary on nobody characters, but the Wrath + Vantage combo provides some ideas for what DeNA might want to do with its special effects.

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4 minutes ago, Interdimensional Observer said:

Not even Japan would care about Valentia if it hadn't been remade.

 

I wonder if to play up Finn they'd consider amping up his Brave Lance to an exclusive upgrade. The Brave Lance Mk III S 008L R4 Powered Altered Type 0 DGG4 Raven Reise Rein Boxer Gunner M Custom! Or just call it "Finn's (or Thracian) Brave".

Being more serious, DeNA likes handing out personal weapons. T776 (the game Finn would probably represent) makes the Brave Lance exclusive to him, so under those grounds they could augment it.

T776 does have a number of sweet personal weapons, but I'm expecting Lewyn and Ced to be spaced out and for Lewyn to come first. Grafcalibur is eh though Green, Light Brand (or Bragi Sword) is guaranteed, Runesword is locked to a staffbot and staff skills are incompatible with non staffs. Pugi is Green and cool, but is Orsin going to be appealing enough to warrant appearance/his personal? Holy Sword has the issue of being on Olwen who already is in with Dire Thunder. Thief Staff is on a nobody loli whose thing is misleading the player into thinking she was raped and just can't work in Heroes. Beo Sword is yet another Red legendary on nobody characters, but the Wrath + Vantage combo provides some ideas for what DeNA might want to do with its special effects.

And then they will stole the Tronium engine from the Brave Lance and Finn will upgrade into Brave Lance Type X Altered Banpreios EXA Nova Breaker

Yeah Beo Sword was either on Delmudd or the guy you met on prison on FE5. Its a surprisingly simmilar case to Minerva Michalis

Also i find it funny about Tina, that they need to go out of their way to censor it but Lara and Misha is just as fucked up. And then recently i heard Kaga puts his fucked up mind a notch when he created TRS lol

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7 minutes ago, Interdimensional Observer said:

Not even Japan would care about Valentia if it hadn't been remade.

 

I wonder if to play up Finn they'd consider amping up his Brave Lance to an exclusive upgrade. The Brave Lance Mk III S 008L R4 Powered Altered Type 0 DGG4 Raven Reise Rein Boxer Gunner M Custom! Or just call it "Finn's (or Thracian) Brave".

Being more serious, DeNA likes handing out personal weapons. T776 (the game Finn would probably represent) makes the Brave Lance exclusive to him, so under those grounds they could augment it.

T776 does have a number of sweet personal weapons, but I'm expecting Lewyn and Ced to be spaced out and for Lewyn to come first. Grafcalibur is eh though Green, Light Brand (or Bragi Sword) is guaranteed, Runesword is locked to a staffbot and staff skills are incompatible with non staffs. Pugi is Green and cool, but is Orsin going to be appealing enough to warrant appearance/his personal? Holy Sword has the issue of being on Olwen who already is in with Dire Thunder. Thief Staff is on a nobody loli whose thing is misleading the player into thinking she was raped and just can't work in Heroes. Beo Sword is yet another Red legendary on nobody characters, but the Wrath + Vantage combo provides some ideas for what DeNA might want to do with its special effects.

Pugi has reached meme lord status.  Maybe he'll get in in a banner alongside Dorcas.

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6 minutes ago, Interdimensional Observer said:

Not even Japan would care about Valentia if it hadn't been remade.

 

I wonder if to play up Finn they'd consider amping up his Brave Lance to an exclusive upgrade. The Brave Lance Mk III S 008L R4 Powered Altered Type 0 DGG4 Raven Reise Rein Boxer Gunner M Custom! Or just call it "Finn's (or Thracian) Brave".

Being more serious, DeNA likes handing out personal weapons. T776 (the game Finn would probably represent) makes the Brave Lance exclusive to him, so under those grounds they could augment it.

Then what would Geoffrey's brave lance would do? He is closely associated to that weapon, maybe it could be called Crimea lance exclusive too him. Having Fire Boost 2 build in, with a brave effect?

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4 minutes ago, JSND Alter Dragon Boner said:

How?

40 ATK Infantry Axe? That isn't really that broken though

I don't see your point. You're making seem as if axes are bad, when it's actually starting to make a case for them with the supposed amount of Blues set to counter Reds.

This game is all counters. As long as there's something to counter, you'll find your place.

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13 minutes ago, JSND Alter Dragon Boner said:

How?

 

40 ATK Infantry Axe? That isn't really that broken though

Hero's March: If unit is below 75% health, is granted 1 additional movement space. (Infantry Melee only)

That being said, Ross is a better choice for an infantry axe to spice things up. Built in Distant Counter Hatchet, Heavy Blade, Quick Riposte, Draconic Aura and a good STR stat and he's destroying anything that doesn't kill him.

Edited by Zeo
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7 minutes ago, JSND Alter Dragon Boner said:

Also i find it funny about Tina, that they need to go out of their way to censor it but Lara and Misha is just as fucked up. And then recently i heard Kaga puts his fucked up mind a notch when he created TRS lol

Lifis was trying to put his "dagger" in Safy via smooth talk before you fight him if you read their conversation. So realistic for a petty bandit, but oh so wrong!

About TRS, I heard you the player actually have to get a sweet Cleric girl kidnapped for her to become your Dancer! It's one thing a girl can dance because they were enslaved before you rescued them, but in TRS you the player, even if unknowingly if you go in blind, are responsible for her being violated in sooooo many ways. Now thats a moral choice for gaming!

And the thing is, when you go and rescue Plum, even if you have her adopted brother do it, he lets the slaver off the hook. I think you could also cue another scene or two involving said slaver- and justice is never served. And then for Vestaria Saga- I think there is at least one event the player can do that involves someone getting kidnapped.

 

3 minutes ago, Jingle Jangle said:

Then what would Geoffrey's brave lance would do? He is closely associated to that weapon, maybe it could be called Crimea lance exclusive too him. Having Fire Boost 2 build in, with a brave effect?

They could if they are running of out exclusive weapon ideas (which they will eventually). Berkut did get his own lance outta nowhere (it's no Kriemhild), and CYLucina too. Finn's case is a little different though since literally nobody else can use the Brave Lance in T776 (they all have to settle with the Master Lance), on top of it giving him +10 Luck.

(Fun fact, if I have things right that is- a capped Luck Finn + the Brave Lance gives 30 Luck, and given how Miracle works in T776, thats a 90% chance of dodging any fatal hit, and because it's a dodge in T776, Miracle can activate over and over with no healing in between hits necessary.)

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17 minutes ago, Soul~! said:

I don't see your point. You're making seem as if axes are bad, when it's actually starting to make a case for them with the supposed amount of Blues set to counter Reds.

This game is all counters. As long as there's something to counter, you'll find your place.

Its not so much Axes are bad or countering. Its just that i find it funny how ridiculous you can go with a make up spread and still have it seems fine due to the context behind it. 40 ATK Dorcas would be essentially Cherche without the wings and those are not really that opressive since at the end of the day its easier to counter low mobility

 

10 minutes ago, Interdimensional Observer said:

Lifis was trying to put his "dagger" in Safy via smooth talk before you fight him if you read their conversation. So realistic for a petty bandit, but oh so wrong!

About TRS, I heard you the player actually have to get a sweet Cleric girl kidnapped for her to become your Dancer! It's one thing a girl can dance because they were enslaved before you rescued them, but in TRS you the player, even if unknowingly if you go in blind, are responsible for her being violated in sooooo many ways. Now thats a moral choice for gaming!

And the thing is, when you go and rescue Plum, even if you have her adopted brother do it, he lets the slaver off the hook. I think you could also cue another scene or two involving said slaver- and justice is never served. And then for Vestaria Saga- I think there is at least one event the player can do that involves someone getting kidnapped.

 

They could if they are running of out exclusive weapon ideas (which they will eventually). Berkut did get his own lance outta nowhere (it's no Kriemhild), and CYLucina too. Finn's case is a little different though since literally nobody else can use the Brave Lance in T776 (they all have to settle with the Master Lance), on top of it giving him +10 Luck.

(Fun fact, if I have things right that is- a capped Luck Finn + the Brave Lance gives 30 Luck, and given how Miracle works in T776, thats a 90% chance of dodging any fatal hit, and because it's a dodge in T776, Miracle can activate over and over with no healing in between hits necessary.)

I mean Misha recruitment in itself is also fucked up and Leif is supposed to be the protagonist

 

And yeah Finn does work like that. He also have support from Nanna and Leif, so he could stack like +20+40 evasion on top of that which is kinda hilarious since it basically gave him permanent 94-98% dodge rate. on average. Theres a reason Finn is joked to have Plot Armor as his personal skill

 

The only time he'd face real danger is when you are fighting Saias

Edited by JSND Alter Dragon Boner
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5 minutes ago, JSND Alter Dragon Boner said:

I mean Misha recruitment in itself is also fucked up and Leif is supposed to be the protagonist

 

The terrible thing with Misha is she is forced to live and fight against her former employer, despite begging for death right? I feel that in the moment, that'd be more impactful than it is just reading the script. I think IS later did it again, or at least something like it, with sparing Jaffar. Although the atmospheres of 5 and 7 are very different overall.

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3 minutes ago, Interdimensional Observer said:

The terrible thing with Misha is she is forced to live and fight against her former employer, despite begging for death right? I feel that in the moment, that'd be more impactful than it is just reading the script. I think IS later did it again, or at least something like it, with sparing Jaffar. Although the atmospheres of 5 and 7 are very different overall.

Leif basically kidnapped her, killed off her friends, then forced her to fight for him like.... in an actual "forced" sense

Its one of few recruitment where the subject in question did not fully agree to fight with you

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Just now, JSND Alter Dragon Boner said:

Leif basically kidnapped her, killed off her friends, then forced her to fight for him like.... in an actual "forced" sense

Its one of few recruitment where the subject in question did not fully agree to fight with you

Very true, I hadn't quite factored in the butchering of her allies since I never played the actual game and visualized them.

But that is how a prisoner of war sometimes work, and Thracia likes being a bit more realistic about things. Of course if they wanted to be really realistic, she'd betray or just desert you, which impressed forces, when they aren't fighting at less than full potential due to low morale, are oft to do.

I actually wouldn't mind seeing this happen again. Or just for a player friendly and modernized T776 remake.

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58 minutes ago, Rezzy said:

She wouldn't have been a lock for the 3-4* slot, but she could have been.  There are several characters at her level of popularity that were 3-4*, then you have characters like Linde who was 187th (and 316th) place in the poll that is a 5* exclusive, so popularity wasn't the only measure that determined star availability.

Among female characters from Akaneia, Linde placed 6th (11th overall in Akaneia), and every female character above her is also a 5-star exclusive or a 4-to-5-star pull. Of the male characters that placed above her, only Wrys is a 3-to-4-star pull, but he clearly doesn't count due to his memelord status.

In fact, the only other characters that out-performed a 5-star exclusive launch character character that cannot be pulled as 5-star units are Corrin (F), Felicia, and Niles. Of them, Felicia and Niles notably placed worse than the 5-star-exclusive Fates characters in the Famitsu poll from 2 years ago (though Oboro is the stand-out in that poll relative to Heroes rarity).

As I mentioned before, Corrin and Robin are the only oddballs in terms of rarity when compared to popularity. Why is up to speculation (maybe they wanted to have the avatar characters more accessible), but there's really no good argument as to why Nephenee would have had more than just a sliver of a chance of being a 3-to-4-star pull if she were implemented at launch.

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Discussion of what I assume was datamined information:

Spoiler

 

Wait, Black Knight actually has Wings of Mercy?

I was JOKING about his warp powder, I didn't think they'd do it. Geez, why not give him Embla Ward as well for his other plot contrivance - the impenetrable armor.

Anyway, if these stats and skills are accurate this is an extremely powerful free unit. I was hoping his stat spread would be more like a Red Sheena with a bit more speed as opposed to Red Amelia. Black Knight in his games actually did have a very high Res stat. Though from what I remember, no magic attacks could ever hurt him anyway, it was an odd detail they left in.

 

Did the datamine confirm the bonus units for the next TT? I'm quite curious.

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