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Just now, Vaximillian said:

I’m not pulling on this banner.
I also don’t like replacing Prfs.

I mean when Shigure gets demoted.
Also, you're using Fensalir?!

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4 minutes ago, Vaximillian said:

For over a year already.

...
Did I mention I have a cat? That sure doesn't sound awkward at all. No siree!

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This whole alt debacle just grinds my gears. I ended up writing a wall of text below with my ramblings about this so just ignore it if you're not interested in hearing more about this.

Spoiler

 

About alts. I really can't fathom why people are super ok with seasonals ( @Vaximillian aside, he hates them all equally and I respect that and I also respect those who like them all equally) and not with permanent ones. For one, seasonals at their core are just limited units and I clearly remember a lot of complaints people had about IS putting unique classes behind a limited paywall. Those who like to collect them all had to avoid everything just to pull during seasonal banners because they're limited. Alts are a way to make special classes permanent, or people never wanted stuff like a flying mage, flying archer, etc, etc. to be permanent and it should be completely relegated to being limited? 

While alts can be said to slow the pace at which we get new characters the same can be said about seasonals. Last year we got 29 seasonal units (33 if you count the New years ones) which also translates to 29 normal units we didn't get because those seasonals took their place. If you'll tell me "every gacha has seasonals" then I can also tell you that a lot of gachas have normal and permanent alts. LLSIF repeats the same character in at least 3 rarities with just a change of clothes, F/GO has the Elizabeths, Saber faces (with a good chunk being just Artoria alter in different outfits), Tamamos, etc, etc.and I'm sure other games do the same so that's not an argument here. 

In terms of immersion and being lore friendly, aren't alts (Eirikalter aside but she's part of the bringing limited classes yes, Leo exists but he was the only red cavalry mage for a whole year so the role was still extremely rare) what people wanted instead of the silly seasonal outfits? Most of them are just either the character using another weapon they could always use or the character being in one of their promoted/reclassed options. Should characters that have more than 1 weapon/class to choose from stick only to 1 and never move foward? If that's the case then why are people ok with L!Ephraim and L!Ike when they don't even bring any new weapons to the table? Ike is even more egregious because he's just slightly better Ike with a slightly better Aether, he brings absolutely nothing new to the table and yet he gets a pass because he has an arbitrary title which only highlights some crappy mechanic IS introduced and are also in the worst banner possible if you wish to get them because they share color with 2 other characters so your odds of pulling them are minimal.

People should make up their minds once and for all because being all wishy-washy about some alts being good and other wrong when in practice they are all the same thing is just disingenious. Do you want nothing but new characters to fill the game with every single FE character or are you ok with the game having different interpretations of characters already in the game (and some that will be in the future like Charlotte)? If you say yes to the second then I ask, do you want those characters to be limited or do you want to have them permanently in the summon pool so you always have a chance to be spooked by them? 

Another thing is that I always hate when people say "X stole Y's place". Not they didn't. Just because a character shares some atributes with other doesn't mean that the first one not existing will magically make the character you want get into the game. At the end of the day IS will do whatever brings them more money and if your favorite is too obscure then the odds are that they aren't going to make it into the game anytime soon. If you bring "but Reinhardt shows that obscure characters can be popular" then I'll raise you that he got his status for being totally imbalanced. When he was released alongside Olwen he was pretty much an afterthought. It wasn't until IS releases SI and changed the arena score rules that Reinhardt skyrocketed to become one of the most infamous characters in the game. Also, if IS needs to make obscure characters ultra OP to give them fame then you'll have no rights to complain about powercreep because you wished for it so think about that for a second. 

Something I admit is that IS really overdid the whole alt stuff by releasing them back to back when it is a better move to release a few every now and then instead of one/two every single banner. Alts are supposed to be cool interpretations of characters, not just copy-paste chibis with slightly different art and a different color, that right there is just lazy and I'd prefer if IS would not do that. 

 

 

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So if Kaze really is the next TT unit, does that mean we'll probably get a GHB as the fourth unit for the May 10 banner? That'd be three GHBs in a row, which would be surprising but certainly welcome.

Of course, it could also just be a four-unit banner like the FE5 one or something. But all the three-character banners so far have had at least one additional associated unit, to bring the total up to four or more.

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17 minutes ago, Alexmender said:

This whole alt debacle just grinds my gears. I ended up writing a wall of text below with my ramblings about this so just ignore it if you're not interested in hearing more about this.

  Reveal hidden contents

 

About alts. I really can't fathom why people are super ok with seasonals ( @Vaximillian aside, he hates them all equally and I respect that and I also respect those who like them all equally) and not with permanent ones. For one, seasonals at their core are just limited units and I clearly remember a lot of complaints people had about IS putting unique classes behind a limited paywall. Those who like to collect them all had to avoid everything just to pull during seasonal banners because they're limited. Alts are a way to make special classes permanent, or people never wanted stuff like a flying mage, flying archer, etc, etc. to be permanent and it should be completely relegated to being limited? 

While alts can be said to slow the pace at which we get new characters the same can be said about seasonals. Last year we got 29 seasonal units (33 if you count the New years ones) which also translates to 29 normal units we didn't get because those seasonals took their place. If you'll tell me "every gacha has seasonals" then I can also tell you that a lot of gachas have normal and permanent alts. LLSIF repeats the same character in at least 3 rarities with just a change of clothes, F/GO has the Elizabeths, Saber faces (with a good chunk being just Artoria alter in different outfits), Tamamos, etc, etc.and I'm sure other games do the same so that's not an argument here. 

In terms of immersion and being lore friendly, aren't alts (Eirikalter aside but she's part of the bringing limited classes yes, Leo exists but he was the only red cavalry mage for a whole year so the role was still extremely rare) what people wanted instead of the silly seasonal outfits? Most of them are just either the character using another weapon they could always use or the character being in one of their promoted/reclassed options. Should characters that have more than 1 weapon/class to choose from stick only to 1 and never move foward? If that's the case then why are people ok with L!Ephraim and L!Ike when they don't even bring any new weapons to the table? Ike is even more egregious because he's just slightly better Ike with a slightly better Aether, he brings absolutely nothing new to the table and yet he gets a pass because he has an arbitrary title which only highlights some crappy mechanic IS introduced and are also in the worst banner possible if you wish to get them because they share color with 2 other characters so your odds of pulling them are minimal.

People should make up their minds once and for all because being all wishy-washy about some alts being good and other wrong when in practice they are all the same thing is just disingenious. Do you want nothing but new characters to fill the game with every single FE character or are you ok with the game having different interpretations of characters already in the game (and some that will be in the future like Charlotte)? If you say yes to the second then I ask, do you want those characters to be limited or do you want to have them permanently in the summon pool so you always have a chance to be spooked by them? 

Another thing is that I always hate when people say "X stole Y's place". Not they didn't. Just because a character shares some atributes with other doesn't mean that the first one not existing will magically make the character you want get into the game. At the end of the day IS will do whatever brings them more money and if your favorite is too obscure then the odds are that they aren't going to make it into the game anytime soon. If you bring "but Reinhardt shows that obscure characters can be popular" then I'll raise you that he got his status for being totally imbalanced. When he was released alongside Olwen he was pretty much an afterthought. It wasn't until IS releases SI and changed the arena score rules that Reinhardt skyrocketed to become one of the most infamous characters in the game. Also, if IS needs to make obscure characters ultra OP to give them fame then you'll have no rights to complain about powercreep because you wished for it so think about that for a second. 

Something I admit is that IS really overdid the whole alt stuff by releasing them back to back when it is a better move to release a few every now and then instead of one/two every single banner. Alts are supposed to be cool interpretations of characters, not just copy-paste chibis with slightly different art and a different color, that right there is just lazy and I'd prefer if IS would not do that. 

 

 

I gave up on hating alts once I figured out they are here to stay, but I don't like them when they are the 3rd or 4th version of a unit.  I will live with alts, but I still wish that IS would add more new characters.  I hope IS can find a balance between every banner having alts and adding new units and yes I feel like two alts on a banner is a bit much especially when they share a color with a new unit.  

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1 hour ago, Tybrosion said:

Huh, I didn't know being mediocre (original Leo) means that you don't even exist at all. That's good to know.

I know you don't like Eirikav, but a fast red tome cavalry didn't exist before her.  Unoccupied niches don't have to be new movement/weapon combos.

Just based on stats, Leo's still the best defensive tome cavalry, and Brynhildr's refinement helps that role.  His main issues are the fact that he's red, and that some of the best EP skills aren't available to cavalry tomes, neither of which have anything to do with Eirikav's existence.

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I just gave up being upset about alts and seasonal characters. They're going to keep happening, whether I like it or not, so even if I don't like the concept of it I'll pull for an alt or seasonal if it's a character I like a lot or if it's a unit type/combination I really need.

But I still draw the line at getting alts of characters who have a shitload of copies of themselves in the game already. Even if Exalt Chrom is more "canon" than tome Eirika, at least this is only Eirika's second alt. Chrom has what, four? I'd be far more annoyed about Camilla getting an alt than Hinoka because Hinoka really did need something. Camilla even took a spot on a banner that probably should've been Hoshidan themed.

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Personally, I'm fine with alts as long as they're sufficiently varied and in appropriate numbers for the character. Chrom is an especially bad example with his four alts split across just two weapon types, while I'm fine with Lyn having four alts because she's one of the most popular characters and they all have different weapon types.

That's not to say alts should never have the same weapon types, but they should have good enough justification to exist. Legendary Ephraim, for example, has a horse, a legendary elemental effect, and a personal passive skill. That adds up to a reasonable enough difference. Exalted Chrom, on the other hand, just has a horse. That's not really enough.

Which I guess really comes down to same-weapon alts being fine for legendaries but not for non-legendaries. Not the only constraint, but it's a big one I wish they'd follow.

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I feel kinda of bad for enjoying all of the salt that alts generate ?. Passionate people are interesting to observe as long as they aren't being rude or directing their anger towards me. How do people hold onto their anger and hate for so long? Especially since it's a game.

My stance towards alts and seasonals haven't change much despite IS questionable decisions. If it's a character I like then I'll pull otherwise I don't really care. Seasonals bug me just a little when certain class combinations and weapons are locked behind limited banners.

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8 minutes ago, ChickenBits said:

How do people hold onto their anger and hate for so long? Especially since it's a game.

Welcome to my world. Nothing but salt and bitterness over the decisions IS makes as if to spite me specifically.

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Alts are completely natural for a Fire Emblem based game. FE 8, 13, 14, and 15 have branching promotion paths and 11 and 12 have reclassing so I would actually be disappointed if there were no Alts of characters. Besides, we need Caeda with a Wing SPEAR eventually...

As long as the Alts are different enough from one another, I am all for them. Lucina/Masked Marth is the worst case scenario when it comes to Alts and the BK/Zelgius or Ike/L!ike cases are just way too similar to each other. I want my Alts to at the very least have different movement types (ie. Chrom and Ephraim) if not be a completely different weapon type altogether.

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46 minutes ago, Sunwoo said:

I just gave up being upset about alts and seasonal characters. They're going to keep happening, whether I like it or not, so even if I don't like the concept of it I'll pull for an alt or seasonal if it's a character I like a lot or if it's a unit type/combination I really need.

But I still draw the line at getting alts of characters who have a shitload of copies of themselves in the game already. Even if Exalt Chrom is more "canon" than tome Eirika, at least this is only Eirika's second alt. Chrom has what, four? I'd be far more annoyed about Camilla getting an alt than Hinoka because Hinoka really did need something. Camilla even took a spot on a banner that probably should've been Hoshidan themed.

Yeah pretty much my thoughts. It's going to keep happening just like 3 man banners will keep happening (exceptions to the thracia & CYL banners) so at this point i'm settling for "okay but at least have a weird niche and outfit".

Like I'd prefer if the 3rd unit on this banner was, like, some other fates kid or reina or w/e but at least Hinoka looks neat and has a special niche to fill. And while i can think of several units that could easily be made red horse mages, its like, fine, if you're going to give an Eirika alt then there's worse things than red horse mage. The only other one is leo, after all. We have a billion horse swords. Chrom didn't need a horse with sword. Reinhardt &/or Olwen were frustratingly inevitable (though like red tome horse eirika, we did need another permanent green horse mage) but they could have like....gotten some outfit changes? I know they're still master knights and all, but accessorize a little, pull out some colored cloth. Or significant changes in demeanor for their poses, like possessed celica and Grobins got. I'm lowering the bar pretty far here guys, just take a little step over it.

I'm generally fine with the male/female alts, at least. Like I get that easily, and its nice they don't really beat around the bush with it. Getting normal, permanent Shigure is also fine and I'll be equally fine when Charlotte & Inigo get added properly.

I'll also throw out that I'm okay with all the legendary alts because its clear that's the land of alts (...for now....just know they'll throw in a new non-oc, non-alt character in there sooner or later....) and maybe the occasional OC (i'm guessing once one of the fire twins die they'll be thrown in). It's its own thing, segregated from everyone else

 

 

 

 

As an aside, did a release date for those acrylic stands ever get an actual date than just "Late April" 

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It seems pretty established alts are gonna be part of the norm now I suppose. I'd like more new characters to come first too, but this is how they're going to stretch things out. I'm only bothered by them if they're like Zelgius or Legendary Ike and barely different from their original version. They couldn't even bother to give Zelgius his other armor so he's literally just  BK 1.1 that you can merge. Honestly I'm glad that seasonals or CYL aren't the only ways for a unit to get an alt anymore.

I think alts playing on the different job classes a unit could have in their game can be cool. As such I think Hinoka's an example of a good alt. She's just a causing a salt mine anyway since it feels like Reina got bumped.

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2 hours ago, Tybrosion said:

Huh, I didn't know being mediocre (original Leo) means that you don't even exist at all. That's good to know.

There's no niche overlap between the two though. Leo's a slow magic tank while Eirika's a fast but fragile nuke. That's what I meant.

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10 minutes ago, Korath88 said:

There's no niche overlap between the two though. Leo's a slow magic tank while Eirika's a fast but fragile nuke. That's what I meant.

Right, sorry. I guess I just got the wrong impression because the other unit in question (kinshi Hinoka) is the first unit of their type.

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The wall of text alt rant is something I agree with mostly.  However as frustrating as it is, this current banner a middle finger given to Reina, it is going to continue.  I guess the whales love tons of alts, and they finance the game.  Nothing we can do but live with it I guess.  

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To better clarify, I don't completely mind seasonals as long as it's not a meta defining unit or skill locked behind a limited timing. Otherwise they're novelty units that don't clutter the pool. What I don't like is IS' execution on them as they have been looking for excuses to have one of these every month, which was especially bad late last year. Was there really a need for 2 summer banners? And the winter banner was just unhealthy for the meta at the time.

As a concept, seasonals aren't inherently awful, but IS spammed them too early into the game's lifespan, to the point where we were alternating between new and seasonal banners before the first goddamn anniversary. That's just ridiculous. However, placing alts in new hero banners as a concept is simply inexcusable. There's really no reasonable explanation for that.

The legendary and blessing system was a mistake from the start and being alts is barely part of the problem. Unfortunately there's no going back on it, and there's only so many OCs that can be made, so alts are fairly inevitable there, and at least they don't take up new banner runtime. If marth does get an alt, I'd rather it be as a legendary rather than a "new" unit on the next shadow dragon banner.

The shift to 3 unit banners was a bad decision itself but now out of those 3 units at most only 2 will be new now. If we hit a point where one new unit per banner becomes the norm I wouldn't even be surprised, just disappointed.

Edited by Korath88
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I think for me, I wouldn't mind the alts so much if we didn't then get whole alt seasonal banners on top of them, too. It really slows down any new characters being added and it really stops me from having any hope that I'll see so many characters I really want to in the game, especially when you factor in that they've already reduced new unit non-seasonal banners to three (for the most part)... Which is the whole opposite of how I felt last year when we'd just had Reinhardt, Roderick and Luke all added - people most hadn't even heard of before their banners...

I'm worn down by it now, although I still feel bitter. If they bring the amount of seasonal banners down, then maybe I can accept them more. I feel like it should be an either/or situation, though. I mean, it's yet to be seen if we'll get the same amount of seasonals as last year, but if we don't, maybe I can be a tad less bitter...

Probably not, but who knows? 

If slightly less popular characters start making their way in again, then maybe I can lighten up a lot more. I love this game, and I've put a lot of time, money and effort into it. I just want to keep on loving it. I won't regret the time, money and effort I have spent... but I'm also still going to be sad when I see so many unique characters passed over for alts, especially when that unique movement/type likely would have drawn whales anyway -.- 

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2 hours ago, Coolmanio said:

Decided that I am going to put my faith into the fact that, undoubtedly, the next legendary hero will be Green Bow Mikoto.

I am not wrong.

Huh, that could actually make a lot of sense. I've already been guessing Sakura with Mikoto's Bow, now I'm not sure which is more likely.

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2 hours ago, Coolmanio said:

Decided that I am going to put my faith into the fact that, undoubtedly, the next legendary hero will be Green Bow Mikoto.

I am not wrong.

I'd actually really like a legendary Mikoto, especially if they give her the Grima treatment with some more backstory and character besides being Emmeryn 2.0.

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1 hour ago, Cute Chao said:

I think for me, I wouldn't mind the alts so much if we didn't then get whole alt seasonal banners on top of them, too. It really slows down any new characters being added and it really stops me from having any hope that I'll see so many characters I really want to in the game, especially when you factor in that they've already reduced new unit non-seasonal banners to three (for the most part)... Which is the whole opposite of how I felt last year when we'd just had Reinhardt, Roderick and Luke all added - people most hadn't even heard of before their banners...

I'm worn down by it now, although I still feel bitter. If they bring the amount of seasonal banners down, then maybe I can accept them more. I feel like it should be an either/or situation, though. I mean, it's yet to be seen if we'll get the same amount of seasonals as last year, but if we don't, maybe I can be a tad less bitter...

Probably not, but who knows? 

If slightly less popular characters start making their way in again, then maybe I can lighten up a lot more. I love this game, and I've put a lot of time, money and effort into it. I just want to keep on loving it. I won't regret the time, money and effort I have spent... but I'm also still going to be sad when I see so many unique characters passed over for alts, especially when that unique movement/type likely would have drawn whales anyway -.- 

Right there, the bolded text.  You know who the star of this banner is?  Hinoka.  First archer flier.  Brand new C skill that helps all other fliers movement, and an absolutely insane weapon.  Drive atk 3, Spd+3 and armor effectiveness, 14might PRF?  I mean seriously!?  Probably will have an incredibly stat spread to top it off.  So they could have made this Reina, instead of screwing her over, and I'm sure whales would go crazy and drop thousands or whatever to get her.  Plus we actually get a new face in the game.  Also we have Kana to draw people, and Shigure anyways.  

I mean if people want to say Thracia, no one knows and thus they had to put Reinhardt/Olwen to sell, blah blah.  Okay, what about Exalted Chrom.  Did he need to be put on the banner, would it not sell with just the Morgans?  Now with Kana and Shigure, they couldn't introduce Reina with those skills and unit type?  That wouldn't sell?  

I mean if alts are dominating even banners of the most recent and popular games in the franchise then that is very disturbing, most of the characters likely will never be added. 

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This is just me being a pessimist, but I fully expect Kaze to be Gaius, but better just like how summer Gaius was offensively stronger than Setsuna. Also, Kaze being the next legendary hero because who is the hero needed to defeat Surtr why not. It's not like legendary heroes who are Heroes originals are interesting in any way and it's not like Kaze can't kick Surtr's ass. :p

For real, though, I would love it if Virion ends up being the next legendary hero and the hero who is inexplicably summoned as part of the Rite of Frost. He was our first Hero we summoned and he'll always be our Hero.

Also, I have this stupid, weird feeling that M!Kana might be an armored dragon. For one, it would be pretty neat for a GHB with an armored dragon and it would allow him to stand out from his mom and Nowi. Probably not going to happen and M!Kana is just going to be F!Corrin with 5 more resistance.

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