Fire Emblem Heroes General Discussion and Links

[Johann]

23 minutes ago, XRay said:

I wish the developers would just call out on their bullshit and sexualize males anyways. I doubt it will impact sales.

For Heroes, those whining players do not have to summon those units anyways, so fuck them for making the game less profitable than it could have. Heroes can get more female players and more revenue this way, so I am all for hunks in speedos.

100% agree. It's in their interest to broaden the appeal of the game by making it more inclusive.

[HK Motendra]

2 hours ago, Johann said:

There are certain things like that which can be observed if you go through the art. For instance, how many female characters, in their damaged art, look like they have to pee, or are sticking their ass out (sometimes in the direction of their enemy)? If you then go through the art of male characters, it's hard to find those same poses, almost all of them look like they're ready to keep fighting.

I don't disagree with your point. However, this last bit (at least in regards to looking like they're going to piss themselves. No argument on the other), I always felt was more due to difference in general mannerisms than anything else. You know, how [most] guys tend to leave their legs spread (the classic need for "leg room", for example) while [most] girls tend to do the opposite (one probable reason being, the last thing you'd want to do is give an accidental flash peek to anyone. But I won't claim to know).

Before even getting into the damaged portrait (a side point being more in your favor), you'll notice that there're nearly always either one leg forward, or their knee(s) is bent in some way so that they aren't standing completely straight. And even before that, there's also the choice in attire to consider as well when it comes to poses that, by themselves, wouldn't be an issue if the person had less skin exposed. For example, take a look at, say, Joshua and Marisa. Then imaging their poses were swapped. Alternatively you have both male and female Robin, who wear the exact same attire, yet have different poses, even though switching them wouldn't change anything about its perception.

Then again, I don't really look too deeply into these things (as much lately as I prolly should) so apologies if I may have oversimplified, not explained enough of anything

Edited September 17, 2018 by Motendra

[Interdimensional Observer]

58 minutes ago, Vaximillian said:

Holy fuck, we’re back to discussing sexualisation for the three thousand eight hundred fifty-second time, aren’t we?

This time though there is no character bashing, it is a less negative, maybe more constructive, discussion. And blame me and an earnest desire for speedos. EVERYBODY LOVES SPEEDO!

(And aren't they more commonplace and ordinary in Europe?)

 

53 minutes ago, Johann said:

I agree with everything you're saying. I ain't got numbers or anything, but I recall there was a male FF character who's outfit resulted in what was apparently a loud enough response that his design was changed:

  Reveal hidden contents

Not only was that side slit removed, but they got rid of the necklace, which is very telling. Clearly the whiners thought the design was too gay or too feminine. I mean you can see the guy's underwear straps here, that is sadly all too uncommon with males, or too common with females.

 

53 minutes ago, Johann said:

Subverting or averting the old cliches is awesome, and I'm surprised that so many developers seem to cling using to them as if there's no alternative.

I haven't played anything avant garde, and at best, I can think of only a few "mainstream-ish" games where there was a coincidental inversion of roles, not so much an intentional attack

Tales of Xillia definitely casts Milla as the stronger figure between her and Jude, and the two don't despite a liking for each other end up as a couple. Jude becomes a researcher, Milla resumes her existence as Lord of Spirits, they go their separate ways for their duties/goals- I loved this daring move. Milla is sexualized in form and Jude is not, but otherwise she isn't alluringly mysterious, and her powers are fully under her control and explained from the start.

Sands of Destruction, a very meh JRPG for DS, has Kirie with the uncontrollable powers and kinda pathetic, while Morte is the strong girl who rescues him from prison and fights in an anarchist organization. Sure she later insists on resurrecting him b/c love and he becomes the stronger one-ish, but there was a small attempt at inversion here.

And then we have Baten Kaitos: Origins, which has Sagi as the main character, but Milliarde and the genderless (considered "male" but a robot with male and female voices) Guillo are of nearly equal strength and importance. It's gender balanced overall I feel in the intra-PC interactions in the plot and with others too, although Milly could use a little more pronounced special powers I think.

[Ice Dragon]

2 hours ago, Ice Dragon said:

I'm actually interested in this one. Maybe I'll catalog this while I wait for my code to build.

@Johann

Here's my preliminary count, consisting of Heroes through Thracia in character order. Feel free to argue my tiering choices; the separation between tiers isn't terribly well defined.

S Tier: Character is (1) in the middle of attacking anyways with minimal wincing or (2) has a "Go fuck yourself" face without wincing.

Spoiler

Marth
Abel
Luke
Hardin (Dark)
Alm
Arvis
Lewyn
Eldigan
Julius
Leif

Sharena
Maria
Catria
Celica (Dark)
Deirdre
Julia

Male: 10
Female: 6

Magic users qualify for this only if they aren't making it deathly obvious that they're in pain since it's easy to just point a shiny finger at the opponent.

Deirdre and Julia are on this list because I had no idea where to put them. They look confused more than anything else.

 

A Tier: (1) Character's weapon is still at the ready, but not actively attacking, or (2) character is attacking with magic, but is definitely in pain.

Spoiler

Alfonse
Marth (Legend)
Cain
Ogma
Jeorge
Merric
Navarre
Lukas
Gray
Tobin
Berkut
Sigurd
Seliph
Ares

Anna
Veronica (Brave)
Caeda
Linde
Linde (Summer)
Mae
Tailtiu

Male: 14
Female: 7

Archers fall in this category if their arrow is already out of their quiver and ready to be nocked.

 

B Tier: Character's weapon is not at the ready (parrying an attack counts as "not ready"), but there's definitely fight left in them.

Spoiler

Marth (Groom)
Jagen
Dohga
Gordin
Roderick
Barst
Michalis
Camus
Legion
Clive
Boey
Saber
Arden
Cuan
Jamke
Finn
Reinhardt
Reinhardt (2)

Minerva
Catria (Spring)
Sheena
Clarisse
Athena
Effie
Clair
Celica (Brave)
Mathilda
Delthea
Sonya
Ethlyn
Ayra
Lachesis
Olwen (2)

Male: 18
Female: 15

This is mostly determined by their eyebrows.

Archers fall in this category if their arrow is still in their quiver.

 

C Tier: Nope nope nope.

Spoiler

Alfonse (Spring)
Wrys
Leon
Saias

Sharena (Spring)
Fjorm
Gunnthra
Caeda (Bride)
Palla
Est
Tiki
Tiki (Summer)
Katarina
Celica
Genny
Silvia
Lene
Ishtar
Nanna
Olwen

Male: 4
Female: 16

This is also mostly determined by their eyebrows.

 

Totals:

Male: 46
Female: 44

 

I'm very surprised that Maria is S Tier.

[Sunwoo]

This is an interesting discussion, lol.

Speaking as myself, and only for myself, I vastly prefer for both men and women to be non-sexualized, especially when they're supposed to be fighting. I just don't understand the fascination with sexiness.

[XRay]

12 minutes ago, Sunwoo said:

This is an interesting discussion, lol.

Speaking as myself, and only for myself, I vastly prefer for both men and women to be non-sexualized, especially when they're supposed to be fighting. I just don't understand the fascination with sexiness.

People are into attractive things, and sexiness is one type of attractiveness.

[Sunwoo]

3 minutes ago, XRay said:

People are into attractive things, and sexiness is one type of attractiveness.

Yeah, which is why I was only speaking for myself in that regard. I realize that I'm really weird when it comes to matters dealing with sexiness and attraction; I can't actually like a character unless I find something about their personality that I can actually respect. That said, I realize that the majority of people want sexy characters in their games. Which is why they should really do everyone a favor and sexualize both if they have to sexualize anyone.

EDIT: Ana, you squee over Frederick's sexy abs and Ike's muscles. I wouldn't say you don't understand the fascination with sexiness, because you clearly appreciate it on characters you like.

Edited September 17, 2018 by Sunwoo

[Anacybele]

22 minutes ago, Sunwoo said:

Speaking as myself, and only for myself, I vastly prefer for both men and women to be non-sexualized, especially when they're supposed to be fighting. I just don't understand the fascination with sexiness.

Pretty much my view too. Though that doesn't stop me from describing modest designs I find awesome as "sexy" or something. lol

Edited September 17, 2018 by Anacybele

[Johann]

23 minutes ago, Motendra said:

I don't disagree with your point. However, this last bit (at least in regards to looking like they're going to piss themselves. No argument on the other), I always felt was more due to difference in general mannerisms than anything else. You know, how [most] guys tend to leave their legs spread (the classic need for "leg room", for example) while [most] girls tend to do the opposite (one probable reason being, the last thing you'd want to do is give an accidental flash peek to anyone. But I won't claim to know).

Before even getting into the damaged portrait (a side point being more in your favor), you'll notice that there're nearly always either one leg forward, or their knee(s) is bent in some way so that they aren't standing completely straight. And even before that, there's also the choice in attire to consider as well when it comes to poses that, by themselves, wouldn't be an issue if the person had less skin exposed. For example, take a look at, say, Joshua and Marisa. Then imaging their poses were swapped. Alternatively you have both male and female Robin, who wear the exact same attire, yet have different poses, even though switching them wouldn't change anything about its perception.

Then again, I don't really look too deeply into these things (as much lately as I prolly should) so apologies if I may have oversimplified, not explained enough of anything

What makes it standout is how ridiculous the "trying not to pee" pose is. Like, try standing that way, see how it affects your balance. Even assuming that it's to cover up, it's still a design choice by the artist, as opposed to anything practical. If they wanted to provide cover, they'd provide as much in the clothing/armor (note that while many characters have highly impractical armor, female characters are often exposing much more skin, even if they're a front line unit). Bringing their legs together like that makes them look more vulnerable than they would compared to a more active combat pose.

42 minutes ago, Interdimensional Observer said:

I haven't played anything avant garde, and at best, I can think of only a few "mainstream-ish" games where there was a coincidental inversion of roles, not so much an intentional attack

Can always use more of those kinds of shaken up character roles in games. I think the future of gaming will head that way (possibly depending on it) or else we'll see a sort of creative stagnancy, which could heavily damage the market.

16 minutes ago, Ice Dragon said:

Here's my preliminary count, consisting of Heroes through Thracia in character order. Feel free to argue my tiering choices; the separation between tiers isn't terribly well defined.

I think you get the point well enough that there's no need for me to critique or go too much deeper into it, but try acting out some of the poses to get an idea how awkward they are (and you and I don't even have boob weight to factor in). Also consider that a character's weapon would want to be ready/actively swinging or blocking, whereas in some cases, they are effectively using their body (notably their butt) to protect their own weapon. It's also odd to me that they'd made assertive characters like Cherche and Titania look like they might cry.

I'm not sure I'd put Maria in your S tier, but I suppose it hardly matters since she's a child healer (and not sexualized at all), so it'd be fine if they made her look helpless in her damaged art.

[Alkaid]

They can sexualize as much or as little as they want, as far as I'm concerned. And that goes for both genders. I have no problem getting a slew of bikini or speedo alts, even if the latter I wouldn't pull for myself. I also like "proper" armor designs such as Titania's perfectly fine, so I can enjoy a range of things. This isn't some strictly historical-based game that I take seriously enough to care if we get people fighting in impractical attire, so I don't mind some of the funky stuff or seasonal alts we get. That kind of wackiness is pretty par for the course with gacha either way. I think we get a pretty good mix of things catering to varying tastes in this game, so I don't see much to complain about. And a skew towards female fanservice only makes sense given the average target audience of a gacha game, and money is the main goal after all.

[Sunwoo]

14 minutes ago, Alkaid said:

I think we get a pretty good mix of things catering to varying tastes in this game, so I don't see much to complain about. And a skew towards female fanservice only makes sense given the average target audience of a gacha game, and money is the main goal after all.

I mean ... I don't think it would lose them any money either if they made about equal amounts of male and female fanservice, unless men specifically stop purchasing orbs out of protest because they don't want "disgusting sexy males" in their game or something.

[Alkaid]

6 minutes ago, Sunwoo said:

I mean ... I don't think it would lose them any money either if they made about equal amounts of male and female fanservice, unless men specifically stop purchasing orbs out of protest because they don't want "disgusting sexy males" in their game or something.

Well, if you consider they do 4 characters max on a banner, perhaps they don't always think a 2/2 even split is the best profit-wise. I doubt they're making it uneven just to spite part of the playerbase. I don't think it's about wanting less male fanservice, but rather having even more female fanservice for the male majority to chase with their wallets.

[Sunwoo]

4 minutes ago, Alkaid said:

Well, if you consider they do 4 characters max on a banner, perhaps they don't always think a 2/2 even split is the best profit-wise. I doubt they're making it uneven just to spite part of the playerbase. I don't think it's about wanting less male fanservice, but rather having even more female fanservice for the male majority to chase with their wallets.

I'm not even talking about a 3-1 banner split in itself, though. I don't like it, but I can accept it. My issue is more so the fact that the last two times we had a 3-1 banner, the only men on the banner were such obvious demotes it wasn't even funny.

Olivia is a flying dancer with the sword equivalent of PA!Azura's axe, and as an alt she was not going to be dropped. Maribelle introduced dazzling staff into the general pool, as well as the new staff valor and trilemma+ (even if people don't like it as much, it's the first new actual staff we got since Bride Lyn's Candlelight). Even Sumia, whose stats were not as impressive, introduced a new skill -- atk/def link. What did Libra get? A dual spur, renewal 3, and wo gun. A new axe is nice, even if most people don't want it, but they purposely made him less impressive than the women. Same deal with Silas on this current banner. Flora is the first colored dagger in the general pool, with five skills (including one new skill) and a ridiculous knife with a ridiculous effect. Ophelia and Nina get either a personal tome or a new weapon, and Nina even comes with spd/res link to justify keeping her in the 5-star pool. Silas doesn't even get a new weapon, unlike Libra. Steady stance and even defense wave are good for his stat spread, yes, but again they purposefully made him less impressive than the women.

Like, if they want to split the banner 3-1 or 2-1 in favor of women, fine. I stopped caring. But at the very least, stop making the only guy in a 3 women banner the "obvious demote".

[Ice Dragon]

14 minutes ago, Johann said:

(and you and I don't even have boob weight to factor in)

Males are far more top-heavy than females are. For the typical physique, males have more of their mass in their upper torso and arms (between the neck and waist), whereas females have more of their mass in their lower torso and thighs (between the waist and knees).

Also, as food for thought, Camilla's bust measurement (which is probably around 90-100 cm) is about the same as the chest measurement of a male of the same height (95-100 cm).

 

41 minutes ago, Johann said:

they are effectively using their body (notably their butt) to protect their own weapon.

That's literally what it looks like when you get hit hard enough off-center to turn you around.

Since it's pretty clear you're talking about Amelia, it looks to me that she's planting the spike of her axe into the ground (or just about to do so) to stabilize herself after being hit, not trying to initiate an attack.

Not all damaged art shows the character actually attacking. Many of them are depicting the character receiving an attack and simply reeling back from the impact (Camus's is a great example).

 

50 minutes ago, Johann said:

I'm not sure I'd put Maria in your S tier,

She looks ready to beat someone over the head with her staff and isn't at all fazed by the damage she's taken.

It's actually almost the same pose Hardin has, though Hardin's right foot has already completed its step forward (which helps make him look a bit more imposing if the giant armor, black lightning, and ominous aura weren't enough for you) and Maria's hasn't.

[Lewyn]

Like I think all gacha games, 95% or so revenue comes from whales.  90% or maybe more are straight males.  So much of Fire Emblem Hereos is to satisfy this all important group.  Straight males love sexy scantily clad women with all sorts of ridiculous poses that get their wild fantasies going.  Lesbians are hot, gays are not.  Don't want overly sexualized males.  Good looking guys are fine, in general people want good looking characters in their games.  However if we had them jutting their butts out in 'do me now" poses like some of the girls, or their crotch exploding and being near exposed like F Corrin yeah would be really disgusting to many straight males.  

Things should be fair.  However how much is Fates represented compared to Thracia?  Yeah for financial success you play to and satisfy the audience's desires.  Notably though, Summer Tiki was censored due to complaint, originally you could see her crack I believe.  Also another interesting general thing.  If you flipped it and put the women in some of the male summer outfits, it would actually be worse.  Cause males can show their nipples, chests and there is nothing sexual about it, but women can't.  They have to be covered somewhat.  

[Alkaid]

24 minutes ago, Sunwoo said:

Like, if they want to split the banner 3-1 or 2-1 in favor of women, fine. I stopped caring. But at the very least, stop making the only guy in a 3 women banner the "obvious demote".

I don't disagree, though I think it's worth noting the exact opposite of the usual happened just last banner with Lewyn being amazing and Silvia probably being the demote. Though you're right, it's definitely a trend. The way they've been doing banners seems pretty sensible from their end, though. Pick somebody who's female + popular + throw a good kit on them and there's a good banner headliner, then throw in a token guy among the waifus. I agree some of the guys like Libra and Silas have been done kind of dirty, but at the same time they're not that popular either (relative to who they're added with), so I'm not too surprised. It seems like there's more female side characters that have the popularity to be crafted into a 5* exclusives, especially from the 3DS games.

[Johann]

30 minutes ago, Ice Dragon said:

Males are far more top-heavy than females are. For the typical physique, males have more of their mass in their upper torso and arms (between the neck and waist), whereas females have more of their mass in their lower torso and thighs (between the waist and knees).

Also, as food for thought, Camilla's bust measurement (which is probably around 90-100 cm) is about the same as the chest measurement of a male of the same height (95-100 cm).

Being top heavy due to extra muscle mass is in no way comparable to having boobs, especially large ones. I can't even imagine how many female readers here are no doubt shaking their head after reading your post.

37 minutes ago, Ice Dragon said:

That's literally what it looks like when you get hit hard enough off-center to turn you around.

Since it's pretty clear you're talking about Amelia, it looks to me that she's planting the spike of her axe into the ground (or just about to do so) to stabilize herself after being hit, not trying to initiate an attack.

Not all damaged art shows the character actually attacking. Many of them are depicting the character receiving an attack and simply reeling back from the impact (Camus's is a great example).

Wasn't thinking about Amelia since I don't have her and I'm too lazy to look up every character's damaged art (was only using my Catalogue). You're kinda missing the point here; it's not about specific examples, it's about the overall trend. Many female characters make similar ridiculous poses for no purpose other than to make them seem more vulnerable, often to a sexualized degree.

41 minutes ago, Ice Dragon said:

She looks ready to beat someone over the head with her staff and isn't at all fazed by the damage she's taken.

It's actually almost the same pose Hardin has, though Hardin's right foot has already completed its step forward (which helps make him look a bit more imposing if the giant armor, black lightning, and ominous aura weren't enough for you) and Maria's hasn't.

I don't give a shit about your tier system, the takeaway was in the rest of that sentence; she's an example of a character that actually makes sense to display as helpless when injured.

[Sunwoo]

23 minutes ago, Lewyn said:

Like I think all gacha games, 95% or so revenue comes from whales.  90% or maybe more are straight males.  So much of Fire Emblem Hereos is to satisfy this all important group.  Straight males love sexy scantily clad women with all sorts of ridiculous poses that get their wild fantasies going.  Lesbians are hot, gays are not.  Don't want overly sexualized males.  Good looking guys are fine, in general people want good looking characters in their games.  However if we had them jutting their butts out in 'do me now" poses like some of the girls, or their crotch exploding and being near exposed like F Corrin yeah would be really disgusting to many straight males.  

I, uh, don't agree with the generalization that "straight males love sexy scantily clad women" in ridiculous poses. The majority of my straight male friends were put off by the type of fanservice, including one friend who looked at summer Robin and said, "You know, I thought about playing this game, but you keep reminding me why I shouldn't".

Now, if you're talking exclusively about straight males who spend loads and loads and loads on a phone game and obsess over fictional female characters to the point of having issues with reality, well ... yeah. That's kind of a given. But that's definitely not most straight males, either.

4 minutes ago, Alkaid said:

I don't disagree, though I think it's worth noting the exact opposite of the usual happened just last banner with Lewyn being amazing and Silvia probably being the demote. Though you're right, it's definitely a trend. The way they've been doing banners seems pretty sensible from their end, though. Pick somebody who's female + popular + throw a good kit on them and there's a good banner headliner, then throw in a token guy among the waifus. I agree some of the guys like Libra and Silas have been done kind of dirty, but at the same time they're not that popular either (relative to who they're added with), so I'm not too surprised. It seems like there's more female side characters that have the popularity to be crafted into a 5* exclusives, especially from the 3DS games.

Lewyn is just apparently way too popular, and if I recall correctly a lot of Genealogy players don't like Silvia to the point of killing her off for her substitute characters. But the previous Genealogy banner demoted Ares over Lene, and Ares probably had more going for him than Lene. Not to mention how mediocre Oscar was when compared to both Elincia and Nephenee.

Basically, IS seems to have issue with letting players get their hands on cool new skills and weapons, so they lock all the cool 5-star exclusive on popular characters, who tend to be the female characters on the banner, while making their obvious demotes (usually men) much more mediocre with much less impressive skill sets. I wouldn't even mind male characters being demoted over female characters in itself if the demoted characters weren't often mediocre with less impressive skills. Lewyn is definitely an exception, but trends seem to show that female characters get a lot more cool things.

This is even a thing in seasonal banners, where I'm pretty sure the only male character who's ever had an exclusive weapon only to them is Valentine's Hector and his Armads. Meanwhile, we've had Halloween Nowi with Grimoire, summer Tana with Fruit of Idunn and Summer Tiki with her breath, Micaiah with her Dawn Suzu, two of this year's brides having their personal bouquets, and two of the girls in this year's spring banner having their personal eggs. So ... like, if they want to make male characters the demote, that's fine. Just give us some cool skills and stop making them so much less impressive than their female banner mates.

[Alkaid]

3 minutes ago, Sunwoo said:

So ... like, if they want to make male characters the demote, that's fine. Just give us some cool skills and stop making them so much less impressive than their female banner mates.

I guess that just ties into the same gacha trappings as the rest of it. They want to give us an obligatory demote, but they want to keep the real good stuff locked behind 5* people will hopefully spend money for. And since they have so many popular girls to push, many of the guys tend to get tossed in as that lesser demote unit and have a shittier kit as a result. Sometimes we get a nice demote unit, like Soleil or Ares, but usually they want people to pay up for the best of the banner.

I'd be totally down for that suggestion of making the guys suck less on average, but since this is a gacha I just come to expect this behavior from them. They're relatively generous compared to most gachas, but they still control that slow drip of letting good stuff become more easily accessible

42 minutes ago, Lewyn said:

Cause males can show their nipples, chests and there is nothing sexual about it, but women can't.  They have to be covered somewhat.  

Actually, I think all the guys in Heroes have their nipples removed, which I've always found odd. Is it a Japanese thing?

[Sunwoo]

The weird thing is, I heard that Lene wasn't even all that popular. I think Ares was more popular than she was in CYL polling (could be wrong, don't feel like checking poll right now).

[Lewyn]

15 minutes ago, Sunwoo said:

I, uh, don't agree with the generalization that "straight males love sexy scantily clad women" in ridiculous poses. The majority of my straight male friends were put off by the type of fanservice, including one friend who looked at summer Robin and said, "You know, I thought about playing this game, but you keep reminding me why I shouldn't".

Now, if you're talking exclusively about straight males who spend loads and loads and loads on a phone game and obsess over fictional female characters to the point of having issues with reality, well ... yeah. That's kind of a given. But that's definitely not most straight males, either.

 

Well yeah I'm talking more about the straight male whales rather than in general.  Waifu obsessions and all that.  Heroes is I think much better than many other gacha games that have few males or even no males, and women just to satisfy every crazy fetish out there and in all these outfits for otaku to go crazy for.  However looking at gacha games at a whole, it seems the only logical conclusion is that a variety of scantily clad women in various poses to satisfy many fetishes/preferences is what get whales to spend.  

Another thing about damaged poses.  Many times it seems the guys are like 'Nice, I don't have to hold back'.  Or determined look 'You won't defeat me!" While in many women it is like "Save me, won't someone save me?"

11 minutes ago, Alkaid said:

 

Actually, I think all the guys in Heroes have their nipples removed, which I've always found odd. Is it a Japanese thing?

I think this is a general thing in anime too, guys don't have nipples.  I am confused as well, maybe they think it looks weird on an animated character?  Finer details like body hair are often left out, so maybe that is the case too.

5 minutes ago, Sunwoo said:

The weird thing is, I heard that Lene wasn't even all that popular. I think Ares was more popular than she was in CYL polling (could be wrong, don't feel like checking poll right now).

Ares is more popular, substantially so I believe.  However they made Lene into waifu whale bait.  Great art showing off that super toned body, and very flirtatious lines.  

[Ice Dragon]

46 minutes ago, Alkaid said:

I don't disagree, though I think it's worth noting the exact opposite of the usual happened just last banner with Lewyn being amazing and Silvia probably being the demote. Though you're right, it's definitely a trend. The way they've been doing banners seems pretty sensible from their end, though. Pick somebody who's female + popular + throw a good kit on them and there's a good banner headliner, then throw in a token guy among the waifus. I agree some of the guys like Libra and Silas have been done kind of dirty, but at the same time they're not that popular either (relative to who they're added with), so I'm not too surprised. It seems like there's more female side characters that have the popularity to be crafted into a 5* exclusives, especially from the 3DS games.

On the other hand, we have Ares, who has a powerful weapon and Brazen Atk/Def, and Sothe, who has Life and Death 3 as a 4-star unit, both of whom are male demotes with spectacular kits, Nanna and Tailtiu as female demotes with unspectacular kits, and Soleil as a female demote with Firesweep Sword.

 

42 minutes ago, Johann said:

Being top heavy due to extra muscle mass is in no way comparable to having boobs, especially large ones. I can't even imagine how many female readers here are no doubt shaking their head after reading your post.

Women, even with large breasts, still have a lower center of balance than men do. What breasts do is not make poses impractical due to their weight but due to the volume that they occupy.

Their weight is insignificant compared the extra bone and muscle mass that men have in their upper bodies due to having a broader chest and shoulders and narrower hips.

 

42 minutes ago, Johann said:

Wasn't thinking about Amelia since I don't have her and I'm too lazy to look up every character's damaged art (was only using my Catalogue). You're kinda missing the point here; it's not about specific examples, it's about the overall trend. Many female characters make similar ridiculous poses for no purpose other than to make them seem more vulnerable, often to a sexualized degree.

If you're not talking about Amelia, then please elaborate on who you were talking about as an example. You talk about an "overall trend" without even supporting the fact that a trend even exists. This might not be about specific examples, but you have to actually support your argument with specific examples to have an argument in the first place.

I'm here actually going through all of the art in the game and you use your laziness as an excuse to fudge your argument without backing it up?

That's insulting, to say the least.

 

EDIT: One more thing because I'm plainly annoyed right now.

42 minutes ago, Johann said:

Being top heavy due to extra muscle mass is in no way comparable to having boobs, especially large ones. I can't even imagine how many female readers here are no doubt shaking their head after reading your post.

Can you actually back up this argument with something other than "I don't know how many people are facepalming at you, but I think it's a lot"? Because, you know, that not actually an argument?

EDIT2: Actually, that argument really just boils down to "You're wrong because I say so and you're an idiot."

Edited September 18, 2018 by Ice Dragon

[Sunwoo]

7 minutes ago, Ice Dragon said:

On the other hand, we have Ares, who has a powerful weapon and Brazen Atk/Def, and Sothe, who has Life and Death 3 as a 4-star unit, both of whom are male demotes with spectacular kits, Nanna and Tailtiu as female demotes with unspectacular kits, and Soleil as a female demote with Firesweep Sword.

Ares got demoted from a banner with two girls, even though one of those girls is apparently less popular than he was. Sothe was on a banner with one girl (one of the main lords from RD with an impressive horse-and-armor-killing tome) and a male alt. No alt has been dropped yet. Nanna was unfortunate enough to be on a banner, as a healer, with two alts and the main lord of her game. Tailtiu came on a banner with the main lord of her game/generation, and that lord's wife.

I'm not saying that female demotes don't happen, but in general the male characters they get demoted in favor of have more going for them than the girl, like being an alt or being the lord. Meanwhile, guys get demoted from banners in which they should be more equal to the girl. In that one Awakening banner with Chrom and the two Morgans, was there really a reason for female Morgan to be flying? (Please don't cite Future Past, she was wielding an axe and riding a wyvern there, so it's not really a good reason since in Heroes she wields a tome and is on a pegasus.) For the Wings of Fate banner with Hinoka, female Kana, and Shigure, was there a reason for male Kana being the GHB instead of female Kana?

Nope, not really. Other than they just wanted the girl to be premium.

Edited September 18, 2018 by Sunwoo

[Alkaid]

14 minutes ago, Sunwoo said:

was there a reason for male Kana being the GHB instead of female Kana?

Probably again that the female version is much more popular, thus more people would spend orbs to get her than male Kana. Their only agenda is making money, so I really think that's all that needs to be said to explain most of these instances.

[Landmaster]

4 hours ago, Kaden said:

I heard new cars have ABS. You should try one. :p

Anyway, my eyes are burning, so I might make a list comparing injured poses just so I have something else to look at other than words, numbers, and other text and something to do before I study.

 

If you do, I'll anticipate your finds~ ☆ ～('▽^人)