Fire Emblem Heroes General Discussion and Links

[Ice Dragon]

4 minutes ago, Sunwoo said:

Also, real-person shipping people you don't know is not "normal". We're talking about real people, not people who are fictional to you.

It really sounds like you need to hang out with a more diverse crowd.

 

5 minutes ago, Sunwoo said:

If you like Soleil and Nina or don't see problem, I really don't give a shit. But the moment you start saying these things that affect real life people isn't "a big deal" because "they might not have bad intent" or "women aren't scary", you've just proved that you're not worth arguing with.

Except I said none of those words. You're either thinking I'm saying them because you blew off my argument and didn't bother to read it or you're twisting my argument into something that lets you retort with a "not worth arguing against" to not have to deal with me anymore.

[Sunwoo]

2 minutes ago, Ice Dragon said:

It really sounds like you need to hang out with a more diverse crowd.

I think you have no business making comments about "what kind of people" I "need" to hang out with. You have absolutely no idea who I hang out with or used to hang out with. I've had experience and interactions with lots of people. Some of them I've purposely stopped hanging out with because they drained everything good out of me and left me with nothing but negativity. I think you best keep such opinions to yourself.

2 minutes ago, Ice Dragon said:

Except I said none of those words. You're either thinking I'm saying them because you blew off my argument and didn't bother to read it or you're twisting my argument into something that lets you retort with a "not worth arguing against" to not have to deal with me anymore.

You don't have to say those words exactly to get an implication from them. I'm not speaking about "just" this argument either. A lot of the arguments that I've seen you take part in here seems to suggest two things to me: that you know Heroes very well, a lot better than most people, but you seem to have an awful time just understanding people in general. You give off the impression of someone who thinks they know better than others about everything. You have a convenient excuse to dismiss other people's concerns and have the audacity to act offended that people get upset at things you say. Honestly, I just don't want to argue with you because you've constantly shown that you "just don't get it", and I'm not sure you will.

[Hawk King]

The problem with basically every single Awakening and Fates character is that they all have a personality trait that is so strong and character defining that it makes them completely one-dimensional. Cherche is deeply devoted to her sweet Minerva, Lon'qu is afraid of women, Olivia is shy, Felicia is clumsy. None of these are explicitly negative, just annoying at best.

Tharja, Ophelia, Nina, and Soleil's one defining characteristic all just so happen to be something controversial, that makes how they are viewed range from annoying to terrible.

It is one of the worst parts of the 3DS era. Previous games fleshed out characters much better through their supports. They had defining characteristics but they were also much deeper when you got to the later support convos. 3DS supports just focus on that one trait.

[Othin]

9 minutes ago, Ice Dragon said:

It really sounds like you need to hang out with a more diverse crowd.

 

Except I said none of those words. You're either thinking I'm saying them because you blew off my argument and didn't bother to read it or you're twisting my argument into something that lets you retort with a "not worth arguing against" to not have to deal with me anymore.

You're being awfully demanding over an argument you jumped into without being familiar with the characters in question, to the point where you had to immediately ask for an explanation of the stuff that was being objected to.

[kirauza343]

Soleil's character frustrates me for a couple of reasons. She has so much potential between her positive attitude even in the most dire of circumstances, her lack of rhythm despite coming from a very gifted family (doubly so if Azura is her mother), and her canonical attraction to women, but instead we get a character with no sense of boundaries (gotta love the reinforcing of the "predatory lesbian" stereotype ?) who can't even S Support another girl (F!Corrin is especially egregious since she can support with Rhajat...). There's a few of her supports that aren't bad (her and Mitama's is good) but overal she's pretty disappointing. At least the problematic part of her character isn't really focused on in Heroes.

Nina though...I love her design but shipping real people and fetishizing gay men is really gross and awful. And again there's some potential there when you look at supports that don't focus on that (her support with Caeldori is great if memory serves), but it's really annoying that Heroes is focusing on the worst part of her personality.

Edited September 19, 2018 by kirauza343

[thanny]

45 minutes ago, Hawk King said:

It is one of the worst parts of the 3DS era. Previous games fleshed out characters much better through their supports. They had defining characteristics but they were also much deeper when you got to the later support convos. 3DS supports just focus on that one trait.

..except all the characters that you mentioned were fleshed out in their supports too, you literally just defined their key characteristics and ignored the development they go through in their supports. Navarre is a stereotypical swordsman. Hector loves to fight. Dierdre and Ninian are just damsels in distress. Marth, Ephraim, Eirika, Lyn, Ike, Roy, Eliwood and Alm are all just bland goody-two-shoe protagonists that fight for the greater good. It's not hard to boil down characters into their one defining trait and call them one-dimensional.

Are we really to the point in society where we're all so frail and sensitive that we can't even take Tharja, Nina and Soleil's characteristics as a joke anymore?

[Ice Dragon]

1 hour ago, Sunwoo said:

I think you have no business making comments about "what kind of people" I "need" to hang out with. You have absolutely no idea who I hang out with or used to hang out with. I've had experience and interactions with lots of people. Some of them I've purposely stopped hanging out with because they drained everything good out of me and left me with nothing but negativity. I think you best keep such opinions to yourself.

And I happen to know real people that wouldn't mind shipping real people in real life, which is the point I'm getting at. They won't go around actually trying to get real people together, but that's because they have actual social skills (as most people in real life that don't hide under a rock all the time do), unlike a fictional character that can be written to be socially inept. (Though I probably wouldn't mind it at parties I normally see them at when half of us are drunk. It could be fun. I've never in my almost 30 years been drunk before, though.)

 

This is also not unheard of with celebrity actors, partly because they are real people that don't really feel like real people (because they play the role of not-real people). (For example, shipping Johnny Depp and Orlando Bloom as opposed to shipping Jack Sparrow with Will Turner.) That's pretty much one step away from shipping people that are real people that feel like real people.

 

1 hour ago, Sunwoo said:

You give off the impression of someone who thinks they know better than others about everything.

I do, in fact, have confidence in my ability to present and defend an argument. Maybe I'm just expecting too much of other people in that regard.

 

1 hour ago, Sunwoo said:

You have a convenient excuse to dismiss other people's concerns

If I dismiss an argument outright, it's because I did not feel it was relevant to the discussion at hand. If you can show me that it is actually relevant, I will do my best to address it.

 

1 hour ago, Sunwoo said:

and have the audacity to act offended that people get upset at things you say.

I am offended if people I am arguing against don't actually try to make an argument.

You're probably correlating me being offended to other people being upset because people who are upset at what I say tend to continue to argue after they have run out of arguments to present.

 

1 hour ago, Sunwoo said:

Honestly, I just don't want to argue with you because you've constantly shown that you "just don't get it", and I'm not sure you will.

If you don't want to argue with me, then stop trying to argue with me, tell me straight up that you don't want to argue the point any further, and I will drop the subject.

 

1 hour ago, Othin said:

You're being awfully demanding over an argument you jumped into without being familiar with the characters in question, to the point where you had to immediately ask for an explanation of the stuff that was being objected to.

I don't think it's unreasonable to expect someone to be able to defend their argument with evidence.

I have already admitted that I am not familiar with the exact circumstances of this case, but that I did not find anything objectionable about what I already knew. If people were that objected to the characters, there must be something I'm not aware of, and I'd like to know.

Edited September 20, 2018 by Ice Dragon

[Kaden]

5 hours ago, Ice Dragon said:

Bartre might have an argument for Divine Tyrfing due to the presence of Reinhardt. Ogma probably doesn't care. The thing is that they already have enough magic bulk to usually be able to survive at advantage and even sometimes in neutral match-ups, whereas Sigurd does have to deal with the occasional cavalry-effective weapon and doesn't have as much bulk.

Parthia isn't a particularly good Arena offense weapon due to its narrow focus, and you would definitely want to prioritize higher Atk over pretty much any other factor for its use.

Larchel, on the other hand, due to the fact that mages are very much expected to initiate combat against melee units that can counterattack and the fact that ranged cavalry have poor stat totals and Larchel has abysmal physical bulk, would make great use of an effect that reduces the damage from the first hit from a melee-ranged weapon.

I was wondering about it as a whole, so PvE and PvP, but yeah, Bartre would have a stronger argument for Divine Tyrfing since he'd be a different color than Seliph and Sigurd, and one where he has weapon triangle advantage to the color Seliph and Sigurd have weapon triangle disadvantage, even if he'd have a similar stat spread to Seliph unlike Ogma. Unfortunately for a crazy idea like this, it's probably never going to happen. Bartre's more likely to get a personal Brave Axe to reference him having Brave Axe in his inventory in Binding Blade, a variant of Wing Sword/Rhomphaia or Dauntless Lance, or anything else than an axe Divine Tyrfing. If it somehow does happen, it'd be crazy and amazing. I also can't think of any other preexisting axe that could work as an axe Divine Tyrfing, but Genealogy's Helswath, I guess, since it gives +20 defense and +10 resistance. Cherche had a chance for actually getting Helswath, but that would have pissed off a lot of people, so she ended up with not-Helswath, but still Awakening's Helswath in appearance.

As for L'Arachel, I forgot about this, but with the introduction of Flora's Hoarfrost Knife, there's two options they could go for her and anyone else. The percentage reduction might be better for her if she can take a hit on either phase and one-shot them which would be easier since she targets resistance or follow-up or avoid a follow-up.

[Alkaid]

11 minutes ago, thanny said:

Are we really to the point in society where we're all so frail and sensitive that we can't even take Tharja, Nina and Soleil's characteristics as a joke anymore?

People from the west seem to be having a hard time with some of the more Japanese-style humor being used. While sexual harassment is still not OK in real life, nor stalking, etc., these things are used comedically in Japanese media with ever-increasing commonality. Times have changed since the earlier FE titles, so it makes sense for the latest games to reflect this to some degree to cater to a wider current audience. The insertion of more pronounced character gimmicks and exaggerated behavior seem to fit right into this. You could similarly chalk up controversial features like the petting minigame in Fates to it too.

I'm not saying it's wrong to dislike these things, same with the higher amount of fanservice used these days. But, some people may not realize they're just not the core audience for the product anymore.

[Kaden]

20,000 more feathers and I'll hit how far I can merge Clair at the moment: to +6. Four more Clairs and 80,000 more feathers after that and I'll be able to have a +10 Clair. I'm not sure who I really want as my next merge project.

[Baldrick]

34 minutes ago, Alkaid said:

But, some people may not realize they're just not the core audience for the product anymore.

That's right, a sexual harassment simulator is simply not my cup of tea. Still, there's always the old games (and Vestaria Saga).

[Interdimensional Observer]

...And this is why I've become apathetic to characters in FE. Soleil is certainly on my "will not like" list, this Ophelia groping thing recalls the Anna Hot Springs Awakening DLC and it's ending. RIPain that Anna, and while you do, I'll seize all your many financial assets and use it to pay for as many Valkyrie Staff repairs as it can, and use it with each repair to revive and then kill you again. I just hate that stuff, just like I hated having to watch The Graduate in high school.

 

This said, there was never a golden age of characters or Supports in FE, ever.

FEs 1-5 lacked Supports, and had many dull and hollow characters. Not always of course, certainly there are plenty of good characters, but as a percentage, far fewer characters in this era were "fleshed out" than in later ones.

FE6 invents Supports, but being the first try, they're still a work in process, a good step, if not a perfected one. FE7 and 8 have quality supports in good numbers, but even here I can find plenty o' duds. I'd know since I've read them all.

FE9 has quality Supports, but the total per character overall has been slashed compared to the GBA games, which isn't good. RD for various reasons sadly dropped real Supports, this was to the detriment particularly of the new PCs, but it would've been nice to see how the vast majority of PCs have changed since PoR.

This said, Tellius proved you don't absolutely need Supports to be a well-written character, even after the invention of Supports. Haar's two PoR Supports are weak, all of his good characterization comes from other sources, and Haar isn't even a main character.

Shadow Dragon had no real Supports, either as a result of a halfhearted game that didn't get all it deserved. Or an attempt to go back to the age where you had to use your imagination- AKA the developers gave you mostly blank slates and wanted you to fanfic like crazy. (This was the age of FEs 1-3, maybe 1-5.)

New Mystery tried to fix the Support absence of SD, but sadly it could only do so much. Kris supports with everyone, and a bunch more between two non-Kris character. But there are only so many in the latter category, and Minerva and the Whitewings take up like a third of them, with some glaring omissions like Cain and Abel- the original R&G Knights have never had conversation together.

 

I don't nor won't address FEs 13-15, most people here should be familiar with the ups and downs of this era in the characters and Supports.

 

I wish I knew what the TRS, BS, VS characters were like.

[Landmaster]

3 hours ago, Lewyn said:

I'll comment on this.

- Tharja's obsession with Robin (Us, the MC) much like the Corrinsexuals and how everyone wants to get with him is because that is what most people playing the game wish was real life for them.  Wow all the hot girls, and/or guys depending on preference want to get with me I can choose any one!  Yay!  It just plays into the MC being a god cassanova, pure fantasy.

Now why do cute girls get away with offensive, creepy behavior?  Well yes it is cause they are girls.  Cause with guys sexual harrassment can lead to sexual assault/rape.  Stalking can lead to rape/assault.  If a girl is harrassed by another girl or stalked, it would be annoying, perhaps creepy, maybe gross.  However if they are harassed by a guy, there is another element fear/danger.  The vast majority of rapists/molesters are males.  

Nina is stalking guys.  There is no element of danger.  Ask any guy if he would be scared or worried if a woman were stalking them.  Doubt many say yes.  Could be annoying, could get old fast, however that's it.  There is nothing to fear from a girl stalker 99% of the time.  

Now ask girls how many of them would be scared/worried of a guy was stalking them.  Probably most would say yes and with good reason.  

 

I wouldn't say female stalkers are harmless or dismiss the probability of a female being sexually assaulted by another female. Uncommon, of course, but nothing to just write off as "doesn't happen 99% of the time". There can be an element of danger of a stalker of either gender. As a K-POP fan, females who stalk males can be VERY dangerous and I would certainly take being stalked by a female just as seriously as by  a male.

 

That saaiiiiidddd, I don't particularly judge Nina's behavior in the same vein as I would a real life person, because it's obviously meant to be comical. Females get away with literally anything in games like this, especially in Japan where you have Tsunderes smacking the living sh*t out of whoever they want with no repercussions. Because it's funny or cute or whatever the case. I don't blame anyone who dislikes her because even if you don't take her seriously, even I, who likes her, can see that her gimmick can get old pretty fast.

[Ice Dragon]

12 minutes ago, Landmaster said:

Females get away with literally anything in games like this, especially in Japan where you have Tsunderes smacking the living sh*t out of whoever they want with no repercussions.

In a world where getting the living shit beat out of you can be healed in two cuts by a pair of crisscrossed bandages with no lasting effects, there really isn't a need for repercussions.

[Landmaster]

34 minutes ago, Ice Dragon said:

In a world where getting the living shit beat out of you can be healed in two cuts by a pair of crisscrossed bandages with no lasting effects, there really isn't a need for repercussions.

It's the principle that matters!

[Othin]

Muspell trailer is up!

No sign of even a Paralogue. I guess it'd be pretty hard to write. Perhaps that's part of why they wanted it to share a month with two more conventional banners.

[Mackc2]

2 minutes ago, Othin said:

Muspell trailer is up!

No sign of even a Paralogue. I guess it'd be pretty hard to write. Perhaps that's part of why they wanted it to share a month with two more conventional banners.

No free orbs? *Yawn*

[Ice Dragon]

I'm going to punch someone if this means October will be two seasonal banners in a row.

[Humanoid]

That double blow of no paralogue orbs and no compensation orbs. :( I mean, I can sorta understand why, we've gotten our two lots of story chapter orbs this month, but still, pretty much guarantees I won't go beyond the free round on the banner.

(At least it still has login orbs, if they took those away from the banner too...)

[Othin]

1 minute ago, Ice Dragon said:

I'm going to punch someone if this means October will be two seasonal banners in a row.

Is it any different from the same number of seasonal banners spaced out more?

If we get two Halloween banners followed by a Christmas banner and a Valentine's one, for a total of 9 for the second "seasonal year", that's the same number as before.

[mcsilas]

Geh. 4 orbs and not even a Paralogue or Xenelogue?

well at least they’re not limited.

[MonkeyCheez3K]

Without any Story/Paralogue orbs, I'll definitely skip. I may like the units aesthetically, but I should definitely save up now for whatever future units I need. Also the Duel skills make me angry whenever I look at them, screw Arena nonsense.

Now waiting for the quests for Book II to see on how they will work with or without the OCs.

[Vaximillian]

Boo, hiss. @Xenomata, there go our hopes for at least some characterisation for the trio.

And furthermore I propose that the seasonals must be destroyed.

On 14.09.2018 at 3:02 PM, Ice Dragon said:

I mean, you can definitely "I told you so" if they do appear on the next banner, but I would hesitate to say it's a sure bet at this time.

I told you so.

Edited September 20, 2018 by Vaximillian

[Reiska]

On 9/14/2018 at 1:02 AM, Ice Dragon said:

@Vaximillian @Alkaid

I don't see why they'd have the Arena bonus characters include two separate main banners' worth of characters.

It's already pushing out slots that are normally used for existing characters, and putting two banners' worth of characters in one Arena bonus set is a literal middle finger to players who aren't pulling from the two banners.

I also don't see them doing a "pick one for free" thing for anything other than CYL characters.

 

I mean, you can definitely "I told you so" if they do appear on the next banner, but I would hesitate to say it's a sure bet at this time.

I told you so? :P

[MonkeyCheez3K]

Galeforce.... it's been a while

Edited September 20, 2018 by MonkeyCheez3K