Fire Emblem Heroes General Discussion and Links

[Landmaster]

9 minutes ago, daisy jane said:

Soren Power!!!

 

There's some days I regret promoting my Boey and then days like today where he helps me clear the Earth maps I hadn't done yet (though H!Myrrh did much of the tanking) so I expect Soren to put in some work~

[daisy jane]

4 minutes ago, Landmaster said:

There's some days I regret promoting my Boey and then days like today where he helps me clear the Earth maps I hadn't done yet (though H!Myrrh did much of the tanking) so I expect Soren to put in some work~

Nino (and i really have to stop being lazy and Promote her). is gonna be that for me. i have her tricked out so badly, she just needs Gold Power. (I am just contemplating if i want to give up my Robin to give Nino Robin's Tomb to make her Lethal). that Lewyn needs some support

[Landmaster]

36 minutes ago, daisy jane said:

Nino (and i really have to stop being lazy and Promote her). is gonna be that for me. i have her tricked out so badly, she just needs Gold Power. (I am just contemplating if i want to give up my Robin to give Nino Robin's Tomb to make her Lethal). that Lewyn needs some support

That would be a good tome to give her, Nino's good with pretty much anything~

[RexBolt]

44 minutes ago, daisy jane said:

Nino (and i really have to stop being lazy and Promote her). is gonna be that for me. i have her tricked out so badly, she just needs Gold Power. (I am just contemplating if i want to give up my Robin to give Nino Robin's Tomb to make her Lethal). that Lewyn needs some support

Robin's Tomb?

[Poimagic]

30 minutes ago, RexBolt said:

Robin's Tomb?

I’d assume they meant Gronnwolf, from Female Robin

 

[mampfoid]

Today I wasn't relaxed enough to try new team combinations, so I cheesed Chain Challenge with my Flier Emblem (Bladetome girls Corrin & Nowi, TA/Raven Camilla, NY!Azura).

This reminded me of how reliable they are and I'm thinking of building a second ranged Flier team around LB!Mia (+DEF/-RES, Gravity+) @Poimagic . My F!Morgan (+SPD/-HP) and Aversa would have comparable offensive stats like Corrin (+1, +RES/-ATK) and Nowi (+RES/-DEF) and I could give them Bladetomes. Morgan with her vanilla skills doesn't get much action currently and I like both of them enough. 

There would be three problems: 

• I don't have a second flying green mage, Tak-Tak could fill the spot temporarily

• I don't have the fodder (Shannas, Sothes, Hinokas, Caedas (merge project)). I do have BH!Lyns, Tharjas and Odins though. 

• Blessing distribution: Morgan, Tak-Tak and Mia already have Fire blessings like my first Flier Emblem, but Earth and Water are in need of good Bladetome mages. 

Solution could be a mixed team with Aversa (Blade), Inigo (TA/Raven), Oliver (Blade) and Elise. Apart from Aversa (obviously) they are already build and have Water blessings.

They would need some Tactic skills: I could spare two Legaults, but don't have fodder for the other skills. Oliver already got Hone SPD, Inigo Hone ATK. Tactic seals would go to Elise and Inigo. 

Thoughts?

[Icelerate]

On 22/10/2018 at 4:52 PM, Tybrosion said:

@Icelerate @Landmaster
Is this the one you two are talking about? 

  Reveal hidden contents

If so, I just stumbled upon it myself and my first thought was "what the hell am I looking at". I did manage to get 20 KOs and capture everything (was only playing on Lunatic), but this map is still hot garbage with how RD is set up (namely, its 10-turn time limit).

Yeah that was the worst map here but there were a few other bad ones with too many breakable walls. 

[daisy jane]

1 hour ago, RexBolt said:

Robin's Tomb?

yes, gamepress suggested it and the only character that has it is F!Robin. 

53 minutes ago, Poimagic said:

I’d assume they meant Gronnwolf, from Female Robin

 

 

that would be it. 

[Ice Dragon]

1 hour ago, Poimagic said:

I’d assume they meant Gronnwolf, from Female Robin

Likely a comment on the word "tomb", a place you bury a dead person, as opposed to the correct word "tome", a big book.

[Kaden]

On 10/23/2018 at 12:50 PM, Hilda said:

Wo which units do benefit from Owains new Special? Its meant for Enemy phase units or playerphase units that have less then 40(50) DEF or RES to rely on specials like bonfire/iceberg, or have high movement in the form of Flyer Formation and dont want to use Aether as the 500 SP Scoring skill etc.? Basicly anyone that wants to optimize for Arena but doesnt want healing involved in their specials (Depseration users) and want more attack.

Anna is definitly a contestant for that skill due to her Noatun
Odin himself can run this special and it would help him

Late reply as others already gave their thoughts on Blue Flame, but I'd like to highlight units with Bond, -owl, or similar skills on their weapons. So, Camilla, Chrom, Eirika, Hinoka, Innes, Katarina, Linde, Lloyd, Lucina, LotW Lyn, Hero-King Marth, masked Marth, Merric, boths Sanakis, Sharena, Soren, Tana, bride Tharja, regular adult Tiki, and regular kid Tiki. Keep in mind I'm just mentioning their weapon's skill and most of them would probably be better off with a different special.

I've talked about in the banner's thread, but Merric's special in that his refined Excalibur has special cooldown count-1, so Blue Flame would be a 2 cooldown special for him unlike all the other units listed above, and his unique refinement is a 2 spaces Atk/Spd Bond that only works with mages and healers. If you meet its requirements, then Merric would basically have a 50 defense Bonfire special. Merric can probably hit 50 defense, but the neat thing about Blue Flame is that he can also get Bonfire from inheriting Blue Flame as it's part of the skill line, so if Merric hasn't inherited Bonfire yet, then he gets two specials out of Owain where Bonfire would be more consistent while Blue Flame would be stronger. The only problems are of course, positioning requirements and if you're using unique refined Excalibur, team restrictions.

The only other ranged units with a personal Killer weapon are Flora and Ishtar. Flora is only 12 points off from having 50 resistance of which her default Atk/Res Solo would make up half of it and conflict with Blue Flame, so she is going to need to inherit a Bond skill instead. Ishtar I could see being able to dish out a ton of damage if you can keep her glued to someone. That said, Glimmer/Moonbow or Luna/DA would probably be more consistent and easier to use.

4 hours ago, Ice Dragon said:

I can see them reducing cooldowns for improved versions, but not increasing numbers. It's easier to balance reduced cooldowns than to balance huge numbers.

If anything, I think we're more likely to get a 500-SP 2-cooldown skill with 30% damage reduction against both melee and range.

Yeah, outside of them giving a character a unique version of those skills that are stronger like Black Luna is to Luna, a cooldown reduction or all range damage reduction would be more likely. It's just that these damage reduction specials aren't that worthwhile compared to specials that do damage, so making them stronger might make it more worthwhile. That said, it will bite us when they start throwing charged 80% damage reduction specials for the enemies on abyssal maps.

Edited October 24, 2018 by Kaden

[daisy jane]

56 minutes ago, Ice Dragon said:

Likely a comment on the word "tomb", a place you bury a dead person, as opposed to the correct word "tome", a big book.

I would blame the phone, but i can't even claim that.
I also feel major shame that I didn't even catch that when answering. LOL

[Arcanite]

On 10/23/2018 at 11:45 AM, Anacybele said:

Lookin' awesome now. :D Good IVs I finally got! He's +Atk, -Spd now. <3

Just gotta pull nine more of him at some point... lol

@mcsilas @Rezzy @Arcanite

Holy crap LOL

That's probably the best nature for him... I wish I had your Nature luck ~

[Anacybele]

19 minutes ago, Arcanite said:

Holy crap LOL

That's probably the best nature for him... I wish I had your Nature luck ~

Honestly, until that second Silas, I hadn't had much luck with natures recently. xP But yeah, either this or +Def, -Spd is the best. -Res isn't a bad bane either.

[Landmaster]

Finished all the Fire Gardens and Grounds~ Sad I had to kill off one of my F!Robins to give Elise Blue Tomebreaker to do it, though~

[LordFrigid]

There’s someone on my GC Team who is also running a +10 Tana lead, and was the only scorer in one of the areas, so I copied his/her score in that area because I thought it’d be funny.

He/she proceeded to switch his/her name to “LordFrigid”, equip Tana with the Restoration Helmet, and copy my total score.

Spoiler

(I’ve mostly copied the other Tana’s build, except for the blessing and Aether).

 

Probably the most fun I’ve ever had in a GC round.

[daisy jane]

50 minutes ago, Anacybele said:

Honestly, until that second Silas, I hadn't had much luck with natures recently. xP But yeah, either this or +Def, -Spd is the best. -Res isn't a bad bane either.

ooh i have a Silas. He's -atk though. (so i figured I'd ignore him until i got another one. I didn't even check what his boon would be).
 

 

39 minutes ago, Landmaster said:

Finished all the Fire Gardens and Grounds~ Sad I had to kill off one of my F!Robins to give Elise Blue Tomebreaker to do it, though~

rest in peace Robin. 

[DehNutCase]

7 hours ago, Ice Dragon said:

You don't have to. Having Luna all the time is superior to not being able to consistently satisfy Blue Flame's positioning requirement.

My problem with, say, Luna Olwen or even Draconic Aura Horse Lyn is that you don't just lose the 25 damage from a possible Blue Flame if you send them out alone, you also lose a Ally Spur if your team is freakishly mobile to the point where Ally Spurs are consistent. And that's 8 damage (or 4 if you lose Ally Spur but keep Ally Drive) during a brave x4. I'm assuming brave weapon usage here since Normal weapons tend to have enough stats that you can usually get ~25 damage specials some other way.

 

Not being able to position properly hurts damage a ton regardless of whether you run Blue Flame or not---Blue Flame just equalizes the difference between people with good combat and people with bad combat a little since it doesn't depend on stat spread.

7 hours ago, Ice Dragon said:

The units that use Blue Flame the best are not the ones that need the damage output, but the ones that can consistently satisfy the positioning requirement.

The units that use Blue Flame the best must need the damage output, otherwise you just use the other, less restricting special instead.

The reason I don't like Blue Flame on enemy-phase units (which satisfy the positioning requirement most easily) is because enemy-phase units have pretty strict stat requirements (you need enough bulk to consistently survive and enough damage to ORKO if you don't want to face enemy B-slot shenanigans)---even -blade Rein wins EP fights because of all the Atk he gets from the -blade tome and his natural bulk, nevermind the more traditional EP units like dragons and armors. And good stat spreads tends to mean you have naturally good special damage with more traditional specials like Glimmer/Draconic Aura/Bonfire etc. EP units suffer the least from the positioning requirement but also benefit the least from the 25 damage, since their current options are probably comparable.

 

Selena type units might like it, but then you run into the mess of a mixed-phase unit that needs setup to kill people on both phases, who also has the requirement of being melee or Kliff---who's basically ranged Selena---due to the high BST requirement* of a spread like Selena's. Off-topic: Bow-Knight Selena isn't looking too impossible in light of Kliff, although she'd had to be a Gen 4 monstrosity or have even more stats on her Prf since bow-knights have horses.

*Too low and you're made of paper and kill nothing. And you can't have too high BST, either, since the moment 25 damage bonfires are possible is the moment Blue Flame is pointless.

 

I'm ignoring teleport effects since, honestly, they feel more restricting than Blue Flame's positioning requirement. They even cost a skill slot on top of the hp or ally within 2 spaces requirement.

 

7 hours ago, Ice Dragon said:

No, it isn't. Good mobility means that you can position yourself relative to the enemy more easily, but does not significantly improve how well you can position yourself relative to your allies in the middle of your player phase. If you want to satisfy the positioning requirement without sacrificing allies' actions, you need the ability to predict where the opponent will move, not more mobility for your own units.

Good mobility affects both your positioning at the end of the last player phase and your positioning during the current player phase. A 3 move unit can be 1 square further back than a 2 move unit and still reach every square that 2 move unit could. (And a few squares that unit couldn't.) This means a unit with 3 move can afford to start the turn positioned differently, relative to their allies, than a 2 move unit, it also means they have more possible squares to take any given action.

 

In theory, all melee units can attack from the 4 squares next to their target. And all ranged can attack from the 8 squares 2 range from their target.

In practice, you only get the squares out of that 4 or 8 that you can reach and stand in, that's where mobility comes in. It's possible for a melee horse to reach all 4 squares naturally, but a 2 move melee would need mobility support to reach some of the squares.

 

For melees:

Blue is our unit, red is the enemy, Green are the squares a 2 move could attack from, and Yellow & Green are the squares a 3 move could attack from. Other than the original blue and red squares, which start occupied, the green squares can be spur supported from 4 total squares, and the yellow & green squares can be spur supported from 7 squares.

 

For Ranged:

In this position, it doesn't matter whether you're 2 move or 3 move, the # of squares you can attack from is the same---5 for the 4 greens & initial blue. The total number of squares you can be supported from, ignoring the squares threatened by red, is 8. A 2 move ranged is better than a 3 move melee at being spurred.

This picture is why Flying Mages are so good, incidentally---horses sometimes don't get to stand in these green squares because they're forests/trenches, but if a flier doesn't get to stand in a green square, then no one does. And in this position a horse can't translate their mobility advantage into a positioning advantage.

 

This position is safe even versus ranged enemies, and you get 2 squares for a 2 move ranged and 4 squares for a 3 move ranged. Ignoring the squares threatened by red and taken by blue you have 3 squares to support a 2 move ranged and 6 squares to support a 3 move ranged. (Although some of those squares are freakishly far out---and need good AI prediction on top of a high mobility team to take advantage of.)

And this picture is why ranged horses are good---they're fairly reliable to spur even versus opposing ranged units, since they get 6 squares to get spurred from, which is tied with a melee horse vs. a melee enemy. (Melees straight up don't get to get spurred vs. ranged units, at least for the first combat, since every square they can get spurred from is threatened.)

[DehNutCase]

@Ice Dragon, I just realized my pictures are kind of bloody terrible at showing why horse spurs are good. The more important bit is that the yellow squares and the greater number of ranged green squares vs. melee green squares let your unit stand in more places to provide spurs for combats after the first.

First combat spurs usually have the blue spot taken by the spur provider, while the person taking the combat is further back in the formation---being a horse lets you mess up the formation a little and still be able to reach the proper squares. And 'mess up' in this case also includes predicting the AI improperly, since everyone still has a good shot of getting to their needed squares if they had some leeway in the start of turn positioning.

 

Bloody stupid forum not letting me edit. (Sorry eclipse, gonna double post).

[Garlyle]

Grand Conquest Round 2 is going to end soon. I honestly saw little differen e between me and the top 3, so I ran in with my horse emblem. In head I saw Rank 1, then this happened.

http://imgur.com/a/JMcNHMi

Wow, that's a lot of point all the sudden. I think we both deserve top 3, which seems to be 6200 feathers. Nice. Could try to get more points, but I am happy with this.

[Ice Dragon]

3 hours ago, DehNutCase said:

the green squares can be spur supported from 4 total squares, and the yellow & green squares can be spur supported from 7 squares.

This was the argument I was assuming you were going to use.

The problem with it is that although there are more locations where you can be supported from, the probability that you can actually utilize those additional locations is not significantly higher. Being slightly off on your positioning with more mobility still hurts because you're still wasting an action to move someone into a square to support from.

And that's the heart of my argument. Regardless of your team composition, you can typically get your units to a square that they can support from, but regardless of your team composition, the probability that your units are already on the squares they can support from before they take their action is also the same. Or it might be even less with higher-mobility teams because you have more room for error.

 

3 hours ago, DehNutCase said:

EP units suffer the least from the positioning requirement but also benefit the least from the 25 damage, since their current options are probably comparable.

They aren't. Comparable damage is Ignis and Glacies, but they have a longer cooldown that may not be compatible with the build. Comparable cooldown is Bonfire and Iceberg, which doesn't have comparable damage output because enemy-phase units typically only barely hit 40 Def or Res (and Close Def and Distant Def, which are the most common means of boosting defensive stats, don't apply to the other enemy initiation range).

[DehNutCase]

8 minutes ago, Ice Dragon said:

This was the argument I was assuming you were going to use.

The problem with it is that although there are more locations where you can be supported from, the probability that you can actually utilize those additional locations is not significantly higher. Being slightly off on your positioning with more mobility still hurts because you're still wasting an action to move someone into a square to support from.

You use those extra squares when you divide the team into two halves for AI manipulation. Since the team is 2 lines rather than 1 big square it gives you more surface area to start off the turn with.

Mind, this extra surface area is completely useless for Ally Support Spurs---since only your Ally Support Partner, who you started the turn next to, has that bonus---but for things like Blue Flame or Bond it works alright.

 

But even with the Ally Support Spurs themselves I feel like it's pretty easy to use them---you just have, say, Rein as close to the danger line as possible and then Horse Lyn behind him. Either the enemy moves 2 squares from Rein, in which case he can start the turn smacking the enemy with the Spur Bonus, or they're 3 squares from Rein, in which case Bow Lyn can move next to Rein and smack the enemy to death with the Spur Bonus. This method really only works if both halves of the pair are ranged, though. (For melees only the guy in the back gets to attack with Spur---which is why I almost never get to Spur with Cordelia, I'd much rather lose +1 all stats than not be able to attack with her at all, so she's always in front.)

 

I'm assuming here, of course, that the map is weird enough that you can't just leverage superior mobility for infinite turns. (This is honestly a mobile team's most forgiving trait---you'll straight up lose someone if you mess up badly enough during a turn, but if you mess up positioning at the end of last turn, but didn't lose anyone, you can run away, reset, and try again.)

23 minutes ago, Ice Dragon said:

They aren't. Comparable damage is Ignis and Glacies, but they have a longer cooldown that may not be compatible with the build. Comparable cooldown is Bonfire and Iceberg, which doesn't have comparable damage output because enemy-phase units typically only barely hit 40 Def or Res (and Close Def and Distant Def, which are the most common means of boosting defensive stats, don't apply to the other enemy initiation range).

If you're going to stand next to people then you'll have wards/spurs on top of normal buffs, won't you? Even Selena's 32 Def reaches 40 with just +6 Def buff and +2 Ally Support Spur. And that still leaves the Weapon, A, and S slot free. Even assuming we use up the A-slot for DC there's still 4 Def from a Def weapon refine and then 4 Def from someone else's Spur Def, which is 48 def at Neutral +0. (I'm ignoring her own S-slot since she got a S-slot buff from someone else.)

[Vaximillian]

She is complete:

    

@LordFrigid @mcsilas @mampfoid @SatsumaFSoysoy @Cute Chao @Rafiel's Aria

Edited October 25, 2018 by Vaximillian

[Ice Dragon]

7 minutes ago, DehNutCase said:

But even with the Ally Support Spurs themselves I feel like it's pretty easy to use them---you just have, say, Rein as close to the danger line as possible and then Horse Lyn behind him. Either the enemy moves 2 squares from Rein, in which case he can start the turn smacking the enemy with the Spur Bonus, or they're 3 squares from Rein, in which case Bow Lyn can move next to Rein and smack the enemy to death with the Spur Bonus. This method really only works if both halves of the pair are ranged, though.

This is not a benefit of running cavalry or even mobility. Any pair of units with the same movement range can do this, but it also requires the fact that the unit that ends up attacking can actually kill the opponent, which is not always possible, especially when the opposing team has Rallies to screw up their advance. (It's always nice when the AI backpedals their entire front line to Rally someone in the back to advance, isn't it?)

Also note that this mode of play pretty much negates much of the benefit of using units with more reach.

 

10 minutes ago, DehNutCase said:

If you're going to stand next to people then you'll have wards/spurs on top of normal buffs, won't you? Even Selena's 32 Def reaches 40 with just +6 Def buff and +2 Ally Support Spur. And that still leaves the Weapon, A, and S slot free. Even assuming we use up the A-slot for DC there's still 4 Def from a Def weapon refine and then 4 Def from someone else's Spur Def, which is 48 def at Neutral +0. (I'm ignoring her own S-slot since she got a S-slot buff from someone else.)

So where are your Res and Atk (and maybe Spd) buffs, then? Surely your team is not running buffs for only one stat, especially with the steady increase in the number of dragons.

[redlight]

@Vaximillian Hopefully I'm not too far behind. I'd be able to make +4 at the end of GC

[mampfoid]

@Vaximillian Very cool, congrats! (No idea why I can't see Discord images on my work PC ...)

I'm stuck at 9 copies since months. Next legendary will be sniping red though.