Fire Emblem Heroes General Discussion and Links

[redlight]

15 minutes ago, Ice Dragon said:

At this point, the probability that they implement something like that is effectively zero. They would need to make a new refine effect for Deathly Dagger and a new base effect for Starfish since both would end up fully redundant.

That is true. But what'll they do to buff daggers? Semi-watersweep or Semi-windsweep? By semi I mean follow-ups are allowed. That could work. You either have to choose one, but not the other. That was starfish could still work

Anyone see this yet? https://sensortower.com/blog/fire-emblem-heroes-revenue-october-2018

It's rather interesting to read on reddit that Feh isn't contending with the top gacha games anymore and has fallen behind. Anyways, good night

Edited November 12, 2018 by silveraura25

[Silverly]

2 hours ago, Rhein said:

Oh yeah, never understood why healers had that handicap since launch. This remind me that colorless hell is still a thing, and that IS doesn't seem to have in mind doing something about it.

Contrary to what you’re saying, “Colorless Hell” is a vastly outdated and misapplied term currently used by people who get salty for having bad luck with pulling healers. It’d be like me saying there’s a Blue Hell if I only got Est, Oboro, Lukas, and Sully.

What made “Colorless Hell” a hell was the fact that before not only were potential pulls not named Klein ranged from okay to useless, but the possible pitybreakers were some of the most gut-wrenching out there. The former problem was fixed by adding very useful units like Kaze, Sothe, Legault, Nanna, and (possibly) Mikoto who some of the most useful fodder out there. The second issue was addressed when the worst pitybreakers are no longer 5*. Sure, one could point at, say, Mist and cry foul, but the potential 5*s are actually not that punishing especially compared to Red ones (Luke/Gray/Saber anyone?). You’ll also need the occasional healer for fodder too for things like Recover, Miracle, Pain, Gravity, and Fear/Slow. It’s a big pet peeve of mine when people complain about colorless because while it was arguably a poor investment last year, it’s much more safe to pull unlike red. 

[DehNutCase]

If you want to buff something to be 'viable' or 'on par' you first need to define:

a, what that something is supposed to do in the first place

b, what exactly 'viable' and 'on par' actually means

 

For b, anything as good as staves should be more or less 'on par.'

Staves have a lot of weaknesses, honestly, due to costing 4 skill-slots to run. Using a staff user costs you the Weapon Slot, the Special Slot, the Assist Slot, and the B-slot. As pure combat units I rate them above Reinhardt, but I still rate Reinhardt better overall due to the sheer flexibility having so many skill-slots free gives him.* The closest comparison to staves, for me, is actually Galeforce units---Galeforce costs a lot of skill-slots and mobility (melee only is a similar demerit to no mobility assist) to be consistent, but offers something strong enough to make up for it.

*It might seem odd, but Reinahrdt is significantly better out of combat than the typical staff. Even horse staves with Type Buff access don't have Rally or Link access.

 

For a, if daggers are meant to be a weapon then giving them either -blade or brave is more than enough. Killing something before counter is equivalent to a firesweep effect with the caveat of needing to pass a stat check. It'll make daggers stronger than buffing/debuffing staves in the situation where turn count matters but stat checks aren't as hard. The fact that daggers leave the Assist and B-slots free is an additional advantage. But it will still only be 'on par' rather than overpowered because in modes where turncount doesn't matter but stat checks are hard staves will still be better---for consistency, mostly.

 

If daggers are meant to just debuff then their support skills need to be obscene to compensate for the fact that they can't ORKO. Technically we already have dagger units that are viable enough under this condition---the dancing daggers. Normal daggers have Rally + Feint or Repo + Link, of course, but the main problem there is that Reinhardt also has those, so you need combat better than people on his level to justify being on the team. That said, a fairly easy fix would be to give daggers a little bit of start of turn debuffs---just slap everyone on the enemy team with, say, -2/-2 def/res if you have a dagger. Not needing to spend a unit-turn or a skill-slot to debuff means there's a actual reason to run a dagger over a bow or staff, sacrificing a bit of combat on your support unit (because daggers are bad at combat, but have just as good repositions as everyone else) for a bit better combat on everyone else is pretty useful, especially if we get enough colored daggers that they can run specialized sets like TA -breakers or effective damage to combat the specific threats your main sweepers have issues against.

[Vaximillian]

1 hour ago, SilvertheShadow said:

Contrary to what you’re saying, “Colorless Hell” is a vastly outdated and misapplied term currently used by people who get salty for having bad luck with pulling healers.

And yet, half of the grey pool is healers who don’t even get their single passive to rank 3 at 4★. As long as these guys and gals are still there, grey will be hell.

Not everyone wants or needs to build healers, and their inheritance potential is generally lower, mostly being useful only to other healers.

[Alkaid]

1 hour ago, SilvertheShadow said:

used by people who get salty for having bad luck with pulling healers.

Lissa and Virion are the only units in that goddamn pool.

[Ice Dragon]

1 hour ago, SilvertheShadow said:

Contrary to what you’re saying, “Colorless Hell” is a vastly outdated and misapplied term currently used by people who get salty for having bad luck with pulling healers.

"Healer" is also a vastly outdated term. They are more akin to mosquitoes, slowly sucking away your lifeblood without giving you a chance to fight back.

[Silverly]

1 hour ago, Vaximillian said:

And yet, half of the grey pool is healers who don’t even get their single passive to rank 3 at 4★. As long as these guys and gals are still there, grey will be hell.

Not everyone wants or needs to build healers, and their inheritance potential is generally lower, mostly being useful only to other healers.

I stand corrected. Excluding Nanna, 9 out of 28 is not half. That’s not hell, bud.  

Not wanting to use healers or what they give is fine. However, if you’re not getting the good stuff, don’t blame the colorless pool. Blame your own shitty luck. At worst you got easy feathers. It’s not like people pull in colorless exclusively for fodder anyways. They’re pulling for the focus unit.

1 hour ago, Ice Dragon said:

"Healer" is also a vastly outdated term. They are more akin to mosquitoes, slowly sucking away your lifeblood without giving you a chance to fight back.

That’s true. The healing effect is kind of an afterthought these days. 

Edited November 13, 2018 by SilvertheShadow

[daisy jane]

I don't mind colourless - because i mean. though it takes a while, you do get a great 5* unit...
(even if it means getting like 3 Jaffars. (sigh). but he's a stud for me so i'm makin' it work). 

Red.. can be like anything. 

[DLNarshen]

One thing I've learned from pulling almost exclusively colorless for 5 months is that there is an extreme lack of worthwhile B-skills in the pool. 

Here's the list of B-skills fully unlocked at 4*:

Pass 3 (Gaius)
Seal Atk 3 (Jeorge)
Daggerbreaker 3 (Kagero)
Poison Strike 3 (Saizo)
Bowbreaker 3 (Setsuna)
Seal Spd 3 (Virion)

Bowbreaker is nice to have on AA counters and Infernal/Abyssal clears, but otherwise we're looking at a very small, very niche collection of skills at best.  Klein gives QR2 at 4*, but I would guess most players would rather use him for Death Blow 3 instead. 

[XRay]

6 hours ago, silveraura25 said:

Y'all thought healer and dragon boosts were a thing. Wait until every dagger gets built-in firesweep on PP

Firesweep on both phases. Dagger units will never die!

6 hours ago, silveraura25 said:

Anyone see this yet? https://sensortower.com/blog/fire-emblem-heroes-revenue-october-2018

It's rather interesting to read on reddit that Feh isn't contending with the top gacha games anymore and has fallen behind. Anyways, good night

It is nice that Anna is still making a profit. I wonder how much sales has Dragalia Lost cannibalized from Fire Emblem Heroes, since I see some people on YouTube and Reddit switching games.

4 hours ago, SilvertheShadow said:

but the potential 5*s are actually not that punishing especially compared to Red ones (Luke/Gray/Saber anyone?)

I agree. Red is the worst color for me. The ratio of sword units is stupid, and I am not a fan of most melee units.

4 hours ago, DehNutCase said:

Using a staff user costs you the Weapon Slot

Pain, Gravity, and Flash are all pretty good Weapons though. Pain [Dazzling Staff]-Wrathful Staff is basically the same as Firesweep Bow-Poison Strike. Gravity renders the enemy team immobile and that somewhat addresses not having access to Reposition. Flash basically allows your entire team to be Firesweep nukes, opening up skill slots for the rest of your team.

47 minutes ago, DLNarshen said:

Klein gives QR2 at 4*, but I would guess most players would rather use him for Death Blow 3 instead. 

Since I got a bunch of Effies and Hawkeye, units who get Quick Riposte 2 usually gets Death Blow 3 as well.

[daisy jane]

1 hour ago, DLNarshen said:

One thing I've learned from pulling almost exclusively colorless for 5 months is that there is an extreme lack of worthwhile B-skills in the pool. 

Here's the list of B-skills fully unlocked at 4*:

Pass 3 (Gaius)
Seal Atk 3 (Jeorge)
Daggerbreaker 3 (Kagero)
Poison Strike 3 (Saizo)
Bowbreaker 3 (Setsuna)
Seal Spd 3 (Virion)

Bowbreaker is nice to have on AA counters and Infernal/Abyssal clears, but otherwise we're looking at a very small, very niche collection of skills at best.  Klein gives QR2 at 4*, but I would guess most players would rather use him for Death Blow 3 instead. 

you're missing life + death from Sothe. 
Jakob has renewal

(I use Klein for QR2. - what i'd love is a unit who had QR at 4*)

[Vaximillian]

2 minutes ago, daisy jane said:

you're missing life + death from Sothe. 
Jakob has renewal

L&D isn’t a B-skill.
Jakob doesn’t fully unlock Renewal at four-star rarity.

[XRay]

1 minute ago, daisy jane said:

you're missing life + death from Sothe. 

I think he is talking about just B skills.

2 minutes ago, daisy jane said:

Jakob has renewal

And I think he is talking about skills being fully unlocked at 4*. For Jakob, he unlocks Defense +3 at 4*; he only unlocks Renewal 2 at 4*.

[daisy jane]

1 minute ago, Vaximillian said:

L&D isn’t a B-skill.
Jakob doesn’t fully unlock Renewal at four-star rarity.

 

1 minute ago, XRay said:

I think he is talking about just B skills.

And I think he is talking about skills being fully unlocked at 4*. For Jakob, he unlocks Defense +3 at 4*; he only unlocks Renewal 2 at 4*.

i am tired LOL thanks for the correct.

[XRay]

1 minute ago, daisy jane said:

i am tired LOL thanks for the correct.

I slept the whole day. Once I get a new job, I cannot enjoy my beauty sleep like I do now.

[DehNutCase]

1 hour ago, XRay said:

Pain, Gravity, and Flash are all pretty good Weapons though. Pain [Dazzling Staff]-Wrathful Staff is basically the same as Firesweep Bow-Poison Strike. Gravity renders the enemy team immobile and that somewhat addresses not having access to Reposition. Flash basically allows your entire team to be Firesweep nukes, opening up skill slots for the rest of your team.

Those are not effects that belong in the weapon slot, they belong in the C or, rarely, the B slot. A weapon's job is to kill the guy you're attacking, ideally in one round (this is important for turn-limited modes).

 

And I think you value Firesweeps too much, a properly built team simply doesn't get walled, ever, but running a healer or a Firesweeper will always cost you unit-turns because they'll drop ORKOs better weapons can pick up. Mind, healers and firesweepers are definitely more forgiving---you can mess up how you spent your hp and still recover---but I feel like using them teaches bad habits for turn-count limited modes. You don't always get infinite turns.

 

Mind, I value unit-turns exceedingly highly, to the point where Cordelia is my most invested unit.

*shrug*

Edited November 13, 2018 by DehNutCase

[daisy jane]

1 hour ago, XRay said:

I slept the whole day. Once I get a new job, I cannot enjoy my beauty sleep like I do now.

i'm job hunting too. 
good luck, m'friend!

[Ice Dragon]

2 hours ago, DehNutCase said:

Those are not effects that belong in the weapon slot,

Unfortunately for you, they are in the weapon slot.

 

2 hours ago, DehNutCase said:

You don't always get infinite turns.

No, but on a 7-turn map, it doesn't matter if you finish it in 1 turn or in 7. Both of those are a win.

[DehNutCase]

39 minutes ago, Ice Dragon said:

Unfortunately for you, they are in the weapon slot.

What I meant was: They're not effects valuable enough to give up your weapon slot for, most of the time. Like, yeah, I could run a Pain staff healer, or I could just slap Savage Blow in Cordelia's C slot and call it a day.

 

Gravity is fairly unique, of course---and if my team is weak to the point where I need a firesweeper for consistency Wrath Dazzle Gravity is probably what I'd do. But until that point I'm just leaving unit-turns on the table, so to speak.

41 minutes ago, Ice Dragon said:

No, but on a 7-turn map, it doesn't matter if you finish it in 1 turn or in 7. Both of those are a win.

A team that can finish in 1 turn can afford to durdle around a lot more than a team that needs 2 or 3 turns to team wipe, though.

 

Turn count is a bit more lenient now than it will be because we don't have the resources to buy all the buildings yet---just gumming up the board with a bunch of buildings should be able to eat up turns. If we don't get any more traps or building types it should end up being okay, even if we end up being able to place all 3 thrones just to stall for turns, but I can see the buildings themselves costing 2 or 3 turns just to break through pretty easily.

[dethneer]

Do we know if thrones will take up space, or if they're like traps and you can move through them? It would be pretty wild if they can obstruct, then they have strategic value and are no longer purely decorative. But the Aether Keep map is not very big, with 3x thrones and all the buildings and possibly new buildings eventually we would barely have space to move.

[XRay]

27 minutes ago, dethneer said:

Do we know if thrones will take up space, or if they're like traps and you can move through them? It would be pretty wild if they can obstruct, then they have strategic value and are no longer purely decorative. But the Aether Keep map is not very big, with 3x thrones and all the buildings and possibly new buildings eventually we would barely have space to move.

If you go to Place/Remove menu, it shows the limit to the amount of stuff we can put down. According to the wiki, Thrones are classified as Ornaments, and since the Feh statue is an Ornament and assuming all Ornaments have the same properties, I do not think you can move on to them as it would be kind of weird to be able move on to a statue.

[mampfoid]

1 hour ago, XRay said:

I do not think you can move on to them as it would be kind of weird to be able move on to a statue.

Well, but you could ... sit on thrones? And get bonuses like in the main series. 

[Rinco]

How many opportunities of giving the Askr trio merges will IS let go?

When they made combat manuals, I thought it would be just a little time for them to find a way to give Askr manuals on quests/events. But still nothing.
Now we have those new grails to exchange for heroes and they could have put manuals for the Askr trio in the exchange lineup. But no.

[Vaximillian]

9 minutes ago, Rinco said:

How many opportunities of giving the Askr trio merges will IS let go?

There is a theory/hypothesis/guess/assumption/whatever that the Askran trio might never get merges at all as long as they are guaranteed a spot on the bonus line-up. After all, why spend and pull for the summonable bonus units if you can merge up the freebies?

[Icelerate]

14 hours ago, DLNarshen said:

Seal Atk 3 (Jeorge)

I had to inherit that on Brave Lyn to clear the infernal Narcian horse emblem quest. I know that skill is looked down upon but it can actually come into handy. 

20 hours ago, silveraura25 said:

That is true. But what'll they do to buff daggers? Semi-watersweep or Semi-windsweep? By semi I mean follow-ups are allowed. That could work. You either have to choose one, but not the other. That was starfish could still work

Anyone see this yet? https://sensortower.com/blog/fire-emblem-heroes-revenue-october-2018

It's rather interesting to read on reddit that Feh isn't contending with the top gacha games anymore and has fallen behind. Anyways, good night

Apparently the game did worse in the second year. That's when the over abundance of alts started. Do you think there's correlation between the number of alts and decrease in revenue. It makes sense because of the Law of Dimnishing Returns.