Fire Emblem Heroes General Discussion and Links

[mampfoid]

1 hour ago, JSND Alter Dragon Boner said:

Return of Relay Defense, whalelectric boogaloo

Didn't find Relay Defense (with improvements) that uninteresting. If it occupied a big part of the channel ... that would be hilarious, but the sad way. 

[Cute Chao]

I liked the concept of Relay Defence. I just found it annoying that there were maybe three maps that felt reasonable and then way more that were just overly bloated and not fun. 

Also, it took over from Rival Domains, which I also don't like, but I can at least get the orb and usually the dew from Rival Domains. With Relay Defence, I was losing out >.<

If they changed both those things, maybe I'd be okay with it being back. Until then - good riddance!

[daisy jane]

azama. why you suck.

[DehNutCase]

Azama has kind of a very defined role as staff Henry, but unlike Henry he doesn't have offensive special access, meaning his entire job is just to be a big ass wall who chips at people with Pain---which pretty much means he's only useful as a staffer when you're leveling units manually (and you want -Atk for that).

Mind that he's fairly simple to get kills with if you're willing to run another staff to heal him while he takes 4 unit-turns to kill a single unit.

 

His stat spread is honestly min-maxed to hell and back, it's just that he doesn't have the right skills to use it properly.

[Lewyn]

14 hours ago, JSND Alter Dragon Boner said:

 

LynHardt wasnt the only broken Ranged Cavalry at the time. Leo, Cecilia, Ursula all of them are bullshitly strong. Its just so happen no one used Leo and Cecilia's non threatening build hard counters Lynhardt

 

Infantry didnt really come close to stacks up to Ranged Cavalry until BIke

Broken is an overstatement, and fully built up Sheena or Hector were just as strong if not more so.  Leo, Cecilia, Ursula have all largely disappeared.   Infantry certainly has been the weakest by some margin, yet they seem much more concerned in making armors stronger and stronger well cause they are whale bait.

14 hours ago, Ice Dragon said:

You still haven't addressed at all why the in-betweens got in-between boosts as opposed to identical boosts across the board.

Not only that, but "the easiest way to get people to pull for units is higher BST" contradicts the fact that they didn't just boost everything to have the same stat total. Infantry would be significantly more marketable by closing the gap between them and armors instead of leaving the stat difference the exact same before and after.

 

Correct me if I'm wrong, but what I'm seeing you do is assuming a motive and trying to fit actions into supporting that assumed motive (and ignoring anything that contradicts it) rather than looking at actions and trying to deduce a motive.

I am simply reacting to the what the balance between unit types has been since the beginning of the game as well what the BST boosts have been.  You seem to be at one extreme that everything is honest and all boosts/buffs were for balance alone.  That financial gain never played even the tiniest part.  Perhaps my view is too much the opposite.  The good thing is that the game will likely be around for at least a few more years.  Surtr, Tiki, Myrrh are some of the strongest units in the game, well and armors are in general.  So surely we won't need to see them ever go above 180BST, if balance is all they are concerned about.

 

[Ice Dragon]

1 hour ago, Lewyn said:

You seem to be at one extreme that everything is honest and all boosts/buffs were for balance alone.

Not at all.

The marketing half comes in not as the existence of higher stats, but the release schedule of higher stats. Marketing is why they saved the trainee armors Tiki, Myrrh, and Surtr for later, after the non-trainee armors have settled down and become established. Marketing is the reason why the Adrift Corrins are inexplicably trainees.

Balance is the reason why the Adrift Corrins and Surtr are trainees and not units with a brand new stat modifier.

[daisy jane]

Three Hero orbs done. (I guess the bright side is, at least my Corrin is now almost trained, as well as Azama). 
I only have 6 open ones left. so that's not too bad. 
(3 training grounds, and the story ones)

[XRay]

On 12/6/2018 at 12:21 PM, daisy jane said:

why can't they use them?

For Flashing Blade, that skill is better than Heavy Blade for units that rely on Spd to double. Unlike Heavy Blade, Flashing Blade will pretty much always activate if you can double the enemy. However, in practice, it outperforms Heavy Blade by like maybe a few kills on Blade mages from what I remember, so it is not that much better. The restriction just does not make sense in my opinion.

I am not sure why they refuse to give staff units access to Steady Stance 4. It is not like staff walls are oppressing the meta.

On 12/6/2018 at 12:39 PM, Ice Dragon said:

Restricting Flashing Blade to infantry and armor has no bearing on whether Atk/Spd Solo should be restricted to non-staff units.

The existence of exceptions don't suddenly mean everything must now deviate from the norm.

My point is that some of the restrictions are pointless and honestly just down right dumb. They half ass balance the game. What did Azama and Wrys do to get that nerf?

Flashing Blade gives like maybe a few extra kills over Heavy Blade on a flier and pony? I see no point in restricting Flashing Blade when Heavy Blade is already out. That just comes off as being a petty party pooper.

By the same pointlessness, they restrict staff units from utilizing Steady Stance 4. Staff tanks/walls do not need to be nerfed. If they want to nerf staff units, they should have nerfed staff nukes instead.

On 12/6/2018 at 12:39 PM, Ice Dragon said:

Skills for non-armor units to wall are pretty much on every skill slot except the B slot. Renewal and Live to Serve are the only skills in that slot that really improve sustain.

The only particularly relevant support skills in the B slot are Chill skills, and those can be run by any member of the party with identical effect.

Freeing up slots makes staff tanks/walls better. Nerfing them achieves nothing.

Being able to run more skills that improve sustainability is what staff units need. Chills can be run by anyone, but it is better to have a support unit run that than a combat unit. A free slot is a free slot, and I do not see a reason to not give staff tanks/walls that free slot.

On 12/6/2018 at 12:48 PM, Lewyn said:

I don't think you need some to keep people summoning.  Different stat lines, different new skills, new unit types, interesting weapons, etc.  There are many ways to make people want to summon for a unit besides power creep which is just such a lazy way to do it.  IS should be better than that.

A lot of those are power creep.

BB!Cordelia powercreeped all previous archers despite having the same BST.

New skills? Contrast Sorcery Blade to Atk/Spd Solo or even Steady Stance 4 in the same Focus. Most player pulling for Ylgr fodder are not sacrificing her for her shiny new A skill. You cannot sell new skills if the cost to obtain them does not justify the benefit.

New unit types? WOF!Hinoka is definitely power creep, and ASS!Takumi creeped his own sister out soon after. They are both Firesweep nukes who can Reposition almost anywhere. If you are an armor aficionado, FH!M!Robin is power creep too. He got a Distant Counter Weapon and you cannot use a Breaker against him unless you are HK!Marth.

Weapons are the same as skills.

14 hours ago, Ae†her said:

Kind of late, but I would call the Fighter Skills for armored units as power creep as it gave them an unmatched advantage versus other movement types. I would say that's powercreep, but because you talked about this performance ceiling. Can you define to me what this power ceiling is?

Also Reinhardt has always been weak defensively, especially if you went for an offensive build with Dire Thunder. He's relentless when attacking, I agree, but he didn't have a few weaknesses. Many things could either outspeed and double or outright one shot Reinhardt when he's not attacking. Like most units there's always a sufficient amount of weaknesses for everyone because they generally sacrifice some quality of their defense or offense for the opposite trait. 

Power ceiling just means that something is the best in the game. Reinhardt for a long time was the best in the game. There was little reason to not use Reinhardt if you are facing difficult content. It took Trenches, Weapon Refinement, gen II BST, and higher difficulty modes to unseat Reinhardt from the top. Trenches severely nerfed all cavalry units when it came out by maiming their biggest strength: mobility. Weapon Refinement gave Enemy Phase units a much needed boost to their bulk to better fight against Player Phase units. Gen II BST further increased every new unit's performance against ranged cavalry. Enemies in higher difficulty modes are more resistant to Brave nukes with higher Def/Res, whereas traditional two hit nukes like Blade mages are less impacted with their higher Atk.

Weaknesses that are easily addressed (or simply do not matter) are not relevant weaknesses. In my opinion, there is no need for dual phase performance if you can kill most things on Player Phase and then Dance/Sing-Reposition out of enemy range. Reinhardt's Enemy Phase performance does not matter when running Dire Thunder since no sane player would use him as an Enemy Phase unit.

For Bold Fighter, under mainstream tactics, then yes, Bold Fighter is definitely power creep. It gives armor units unrivaled dual phase performance, and it makes their low mobility weakness not very relevant since being flanked is not a big deal if flankers has little to no influence on your battle plan. I personally do not think Bold Fighter is that big of a deal since it is stuck on a super slow movement class, but I am an outlier on some of my views and opinions.

Edited December 7, 2018 by XRay

[Lewyn]

2 hours ago, XRay said:

 

A lot of those are power creep.

BB!Cordelia powercreeped all previous archers despite having the same BST.

New skills? Contrast Sorcery Blade to Atk/Spd Solo or even Steady Stance 4 in the same Focus. Most player pulling for Ylgr fodder are not sacrificing her for her shiny new A skill. You cannot sell new skills if the cost to obtain them does not justify the benefit.

New unit types? WOF!Hinoka is definitely power creep, and ASS!Takumi creeped his own sister out soon after. They are both Firesweep nukes who can Reposition almost anywhere. If you are an armor aficionado, FH!M!Robin is power creep too. He got a Distant Counter Weapon and you cannot use a Breaker against him unless you are HK!Marth.

Weapons are the same as skills.

 

That's true but at least with different stat lines sometimes that super high HP, or high res or whatever stat can allow different builds.  Like Innes is awesome and can do something Bridelia can't even if she is considered better.  Different stat spreads at least allows that in the future certain skills could make less desirable ones have some great use even if it doesn't presently.  Just adding more stats is adding more stats a big advantage not only in scoring.  WOF! Hinoka has that armor killer PRF Bow, that is a role Takumi can't take.  M! Robin isn't power creep, he has double weakness dragon and armor.  Hector can already do omni breaker as well.  

Weapons they can correct power creep with what they are doing, giving old PRF weapons refines to bring them up to speed.  

[Raven]

Look who I found while looking around the ranks in Gunnthra's army @NSSKG151

 

[DehNutCase]

3 hours ago, XRay said:

For Flashing Blade, that skill is better than Heavy Blade for units that rely on Spd to double. Unlike Heavy Blade, Flashing Blade will pretty much always activate if you can double the enemy. However, in practice, it outperforms Heavy Blade by like maybe a few kills on Blade mages from what I remember, so it is not that much better. The restriction just does not make sense in my opinion.

Flashing Blade is hilariously more consistent than Heavy Blade for Galeforce purposes, and makes the stat spread requirement of Galeforce units a lot more lenient. Heavy Blade Galeforcers need enough Atk to pass the Atk check, enough speed to double, enough bulk to not die to the counter, and they can't have so much Atk that they OHKO. Flashing lets you dump a lot more stats into speed and still be functional---you can get away with flashing blade on Prfs since you can't run Slaying to bring Galeforce down to 4 cd.

 

Cordelia is the only unit I use that's completely selfish---not a single one of her skill slots benefits anyone else, even her C-slot is Savage Blow, which only Cordelia really cares about. And it's because she has to pass the hardest positioning and stat checks to be functional, so she can't afford to spend skill-slots helping anyone else. (The stat checks for her to function consistently is actually so hard to pass consistently that I never run her without flying Azura, so she technically takes up 2 unit slots rather than 1 just to be on a team.)

Yet, despite all that, Galeforce is worth it. Galeforce isn't just an extra turn, it's an extra turn that starts where you ended your last turn. It utterly destroys the enemy team's positioning advantage---there's a reason a 2 move melee unit is my best unit against 2-range horse teams.

[NSSKG151]

3 hours ago, Raven said:

Look who I found while looking around the ranks in Gunnthra's army @NSSKG151

Yep, that's me. Didn't know you were on Gunnthra's team as well. Though that is probably how high my score will go this round. I honestly haven't been paying much to the VG or Heroes in general since Smash Ultimate came out today.

[redlight]

Revenue not looking so good. Two months left. Will we reach 200 million for year 2? https://nintendoeverything.com/fire-emblem-heroes-revenue-dips-to-13-8-million-in-november-at-465-million-for-worldwide-total/

Lack of secondary banners are one reason, but the top grossing rankings aren't the best for new heroes banners of November. Adrift for both regions being on par with Genealogy's September banner revenue for the west, which is "decent", and Surtr's banner appearing in a really bad time and not invoking that much interest.

Edited December 8, 2018 by silveraura25

[XRay]

6 minutes ago, DehNutCase said:

Flashing Blade is hilariously more consistent than Heavy Blade for Galeforce purposes, and makes the stat spread requirement of Galeforce units a lot more lenient. Heavy Blade Galeforcers need enough Atk to pass the Atk check, enough speed to double, enough bulk to not die to the counter, and they can't have so much Atk that they OHKO. Flashing lets you dump a lot more stats into speed and still be functional---you can get away with flashing blade on Prfs since you can't run Slaying to bring Galeforce down to 4 cd.

 

Cordelia is the only unit I use that's completely selfish---not a single one of her skill slots benefits anyone else, even her C-slot is Savage Blow, which only Cordelia really cares about. And it's because she has to pass the hardest positioning and stat checks to be functional, so she can't afford to spend skill-slots helping anyone else. (The stat checks for her to function consistently is actually so hard to pass consistently that I never run her without flying Azura, so she technically takes up 2 unit slots rather than 1 just to be on a team.)

Yet, despite all that, Galeforce is worth it. Galeforce isn't just an extra turn, it's an extra turn that starts where you ended your last turn. It utterly destroys the enemy team's positioning advantage---there's a reason a 2 move melee unit is my best unit against 2-range horse teams.

It is more consistent, but I do not see a huge improvement in performance in the calculator. The improvement is minimal enough that I do not think it justifies barring Flashing Blade from being accessible fliers and cavalry.

I am using Nephenee to simulate Cordelia since the calculator does not let me put Flashing Blade on fliers. I gave Nephenee 6/6/-6/0 buffs/debuffs with another 4/0/0/0 of Spur buffs on top. I have also set up Cordelia with 6/6/6/0 as a control to make sure Nepehenee with Heavy Blade is actually close to Cordelia in terms of performance. If they are both close in terms of performance, then it is reasonable to assume that the gain from allowing Cordelia to use Flashing Blade would also be minimal. I left "Initiate again if Galeforce triggers" checked. Nephenee got an improvement of like 5 kills at best.

Nephenee Heavy Blade
Player Phase [Full List] 250:30:36
Player Phase [Hard List] 162:77:9
Player Phase [Hard List +10] 121:99:28

Nephenee Flashing Blade
Player Phase [Full List] 253:31:32
Player Phase [Hard List] 162:78:8
Player Phase [Hard List +10] 126:102:20

Cordelia 6/6/6/0
Player Phase [Full List] 252:26:38
Player Phase [Hard List] 164:75:9
Player Phase [Hard List +10] 122:97:29

Here are the results with "Initiate again if Galeforce triggers" unchecked

Nephenee Heavy Blade
Player Phase [Full List] 209:19:88
Player Phase [Hard List] 146:74:28
Player Phase [Hard List +10] 106:94:48

Nephenee Flashing Blade
Player Phase [Full List] 209:19:88
Player Phase [Hard List] 146:74:28
Player Phase [Hard List +10] 106:94:48

Cordelia 6/6/6/0
Player Phase [Full List] 210:14:92
Player Phase [Hard List] 146:72:30
Player Phase [Hard List +10] 107:92:49

Here is arcticsilverfox's calculator.

Challengers:

Spoiler

CHALLENGER LIST  
Nephenee (5* +spd -res)  
Weapon: Slaying Lance+  
Special: Galeforce  
A: Fury 3  
B: Desperation 3  
S: Heavy Blade 3  
Upgrade Path: 2  
 
Nephenee (5* +spd -res)  
Weapon: Slaying Lance+  
Special: Galeforce  
A: Fury 3  
B: Desperation 3  
S: Flashing Blade 3  
Upgrade Path: 2  
 
Cordelia (5* +spd -res)  
Weapon: Slaying Lance+  
Special: Galeforce  
A: Fury 3  
B: Desperation 3  
S: Heavy Blade 3  
Upgrade Path: 2 

Full List:

Spoiler

ENEMIES - FILTERED FULL LIST  
Include: melee, ranged, red, blue, green, gray, physical, magical, infantry, cavalry, flying, armored, staff, nonstaff  
Rarity: 5*  
Merge: +5  
Boon: +spd  
Special: Moonbow  
Replace Special: true  
A: Fury 3  
Replace A: true 

 

[Tolvir]

36 minutes ago, silveraura25 said:

Revenue not looking so good. Two months left. Will we reach 200 million for year 2? https://nintendoeverything.com/fire-emblem-heroes-revenue-dips-to-13-8-million-in-november-at-465-million-for-worldwide-total/

Lack of secondary banners are one reason, but the top grossing rankings aren't the best for new heroes banners of November. Adrift for both regions being on par with Genealogy's September banner revenue for the west, which is "decent", and Surtr's banner appearing in a really bad time and not invoking that much interest.

I think the issue is less the banners and more a lack of content. I made this comment over on reddit as well, but FEH is really lacking in content right now. Especially if you start to compare it to any of its peers in the mobile gacha game market. And content directly effects what you use in terms of teams. Ill use FGO as the example since I am familiar with it the most in terms of these gacha games besides FEH.

With FGO, I have several teams of characters for various pieces of content. Ive got dedicated characters for boss fights, trash mobs, farming, etc. Then you add in the class advantage system, and characters being relatively unique and it gives you a lot of incentive to level up and try to roll for new characters. Mostly due to content being pretty extensive.

FEH in comparison, you maybe have 8-12 characters at most you use. Most of the time I only alternate between the same core set of characters for various content. So when a new banner comes up, why am I going to roll unless its someone I really want due to bias? Even with them putting out these broken af characters like Surtr. Why am I going to go for Surtr when most of this content can be completed just fine? Sure hes broken but I dont exactly get challenged by content besides the ridiculousness of the GHB/LHB fights at times. But looking at FGO as a comparison again, Merlin is broken as all hell and he gives a lot of incentive to go for him because of it, because a broken character can truly carry you through content.

Now I am not advocating for broken characters here or anything, I am just pointing out that in terms of content, FEH is truly lacking. And when content is lacking, you have less of a reason to go for any new characters.

The banners havent been good either, thats for sure, but I think the larger issue is its content. And they will continue seeing a nothing but sporadic spikes in money with anticipated banners and then huge drops afterwards until the lack of truly meaningful content is addressed. If it ever does.

[DehNutCase]

28 minutes ago, XRay said:

It is more consistent, but I do not see a huge improvement in performance in the calculator. The improvement is minimal enough that I do not think it justifies barring Flashing Blade from being accessible fliers and cavalry.

I am using Nephenee to simulate Cordelia since the calculator does not let me put Flashing Blade on fliers. I gave Nephenee 6/6/-6/0 buffs/debuffs with another 4/0/0/0 of Spur buffs on top. I have also set up Cordelia with 6/6/6/0 as a control to make sure Nepehenee with Heavy Blade is actually close to Cordelia in terms of performance. If they are both close in terms of performance, then it is reasonable to assume that the gain from allowing Cordelia to use Flashing Blade would also be minimal. I left "Initiate again if Galeforce triggers" checked. Nephenee got an improvement of like 5 kills at best.

Cordelia is one of the best Galeforce users for a reason. It's the second raters that benefit more from Flashing Blade, the ones that aren't as min-maxed for the role. Edit: Heavy Blade requires High Atk, High Spd, High Mixed Bulk to function, Swift Blade lets Medium Atk, High Spd, High Mixed Bulk into the party.

 

She's not the one who wants Heavy Blade the most, it's the second stringers like Horse Cordelia, Mia, Sumia, etc.

(Why did you assume I used a bad unit for Heavy Blade to use as my Heavy Blade Galeforcer?)

 

Also, you're thinking in terms of kills---if Cordelia takes 2 unit-turns to kill someone, I fucked up. Her job is to kill 2 people with 1 turn, not spend both her turns killing the same person. Like, why in the world would I repo Cordelia to hit a horse twice, which would cost two unit turns, if I could just smack them to death with Reinhardt?

Edit: If you use Galeforce for combat performance you are using it wrong.

Edited December 8, 2018 by DehNutCase

[daisy jane]

well i did a thing :)
I completed everything in Tactics from basic to grandmaster
now the only thing i have to do is clear several chapters in Hard mode (that i somehow skipped, but i am using those orbs as a "omg i need to get so and so" bank. 
and start doing chain challenges 

 

1 hour ago, silveraura25 said:

Revenue not looking so good. Two months left. Will we reach 200 million for year 2? https://nintendoeverything.com/fire-emblem-heroes-revenue-dips-to-13-8-million-in-november-at-465-million-for-worldwide-total/

Lack of secondary banners are one reason, but the top grossing rankings aren't the best for new heroes banners of November. Adrift for both regions being on par with Genealogy's September banner revenue for the west, which is "decent", and Surtr's banner appearing in a really bad time and not invoking that much interest.

couldn't it just be the time of year? I mean i know for me i just couldn't spend anything extra right now not with Christmas around the corner. 

[XRay]

13 minutes ago, DehNutCase said:

Cordelia is one of the best Galeforce users for a reason. It's the second raters that benefit more from Flashing Blade, the ones that aren't as min-maxed for the role.

I checked Nephenee's own stat line with a regular 6/6/0/0 buff and Flashing Blade does indeed give noticeable improvement with about 10-15 extra kills. I guess it is noticeably better, but it is not better to the point that it would be considered broken to warrant a flier and pony restriction.

7 minutes ago, DehNutCase said:

She's not the one who wants Heavy Blade the most, it's the second stringers like Horse Cordelia, Mia, Sumia, etc.

(Why did you assume I used a bad unit for Heavy Blade to use as my Heavy Blade Galeforcer?)

I saw you use Cordelia a lot in Aether Raids, so I figured I would use Cordelia as an example.

7 minutes ago, DehNutCase said:

Also, you're thinking in terms of kills---if Cordelia takes 2 unit-turns to kill someone, I fucked up. Her job is to kill 2 people with 1 turn, not spend both her turns killing the same person. Like, why in the world would I repo Cordelia to hit a horse twice, which would cost two unit turns, if I could just smack them to death with Reinhardt?

If the unit kills more, then it is reasonable to assume Galeforce also triggered more often.

[Xenomata]

I learned many things since becoming the perfectly ripe age of 21 a whole 2 days ago...

One, yeah I definitely don't like alcohol. I think the place I ate at mixed some cheap beer can crap in with barbecue sauce...

Two, I much prefer gambling for FEH than I do gambling in a casino. At least in FEH the chances to get something good are always present, even if it's just more Reposition fodder, as opposed to... having a chance to win back the credit you just used?

[DehNutCase]

Just now, XRay said:

If the unit kills more, then it is reasonable to assume Galeforce also triggered more often.

If you get too high Atk you OHKO, which doesn't trigger Galeforce. (And you also don't take a counter to trigger Wings of Mercy.) The problem isn't that you OHKO, exactly---you can usually plan for that by just having the dancer nearby---the problem is that it's not consistent.

 

Consistently always OHKOing and consistently always 2HKOing is a lot better than sometimes OHKOing and sometimes OHKOing. Of course, 100% consistency isn't practical (I'm not even sure it's possible), but you still want it to be as consistent as possible. And, if you can choose either way, below half hp, Galeforce triggered is the ideal outcome after a Galeforce unit initiates, which happens a lot more often with Flashing Blade units than Heavy Blade units. The difference between WoM triggering or not is usually worth a entire unit turn.

 

Also mind that I'm pretty sure they wouldn't have allowed Flashing Blade to be printed as an S-seal if fliers and ponies were allowed to use them. For a similar reason to them not printing multiple copies of armored boots, quickened pulse, etc. Certain types of S-seals being limited to 1 only creates huge constraints in building teams, which makes unit and team building a lot simpler---I know, for example, I'll never have to deal with more than 1 Vantage & QR user unless they spend a Prf on it.

[XRay]

6 minutes ago, DehNutCase said:

If you get too high Atk you OHKO, which doesn't trigger Galeforce. (And you also don't take a counter to trigger Wings of Mercy.) The problem isn't that you OHKO, exactly---you can usually plan for that by just having the dancer nearby---the problem is that it's not consistent.

 

Consistently always OHKOing and consistently always 2HKOing is a lot better than sometimes OHKOing and sometimes OHKOing. Of course, 100% consistency isn't practical (I'm not even sure it's possible), but you still want it to be as consistent as possible. And, if you can choose either way, below half hp, Galeforce triggered is the ideal outcome after a Galeforce unit initiates, which happens a lot more often with Flashing Blade units than Heavy Blade units. The difference between WoM triggering or not is usually worth a entire unit turn.

But we are comparing Heavy Blade and Flashing Blade, and when you uncheck "Initiate again if Galeforce triggers," they have the same performance so there is no way for me to show which one is better other than kill count.

7 minutes ago, DehNutCase said:

Also mind that I'm pretty sure they wouldn't have allowed Flashing Blade to be printed as an S-seal if fliers and ponies were allowed to use them. For a similar reason to them not printing multiple copies of armored boots, quickened pulse, etc. Certain types of S-seals being limited to 1 only creates huge constraints in building teams, which makes unit and team building a lot simpler---I know, for example, I'll never have to deal with more than 1 Vantage & QR user unless they spend a Prf on it.

I do not think multi pony/flier Galeforce-Desperation units are bad enough to warrant a nerf. If they allow a player to run a team full of dual phase armors, restricting flier/pony teams from running multi Galeforcers is just being petty.

[DehNutCase]

10 minutes ago, XRay said:

But we are comparing Heavy Blade and Flashing Blade, and when you uncheck "Initiate again if Galeforce triggers," they have the same performance so there is no way for me to show which one is better other than kill count.

Well, yeah, the calculator won't show the difference unless you go through the trouble of looking through the matchups, and seeing which ones trigger Galeforce. (I didn't do this, mind, I knew from the start how Flashing Blade vs. Heavy Blade would play out with different spreads, because 2HKOs are a lot easier than OHKOs and more speed = more doubles---not just because you have 5 speed on the enemy more often, but also because you miss the OHKO more often from moving points from Atk to Spd.)

 

The fact that the calculator doesn't show the difference unless you go through a lot of trouble doesn't mean the difference isn't there, though. That's why play testing is important.

How do I put this... there's basically no way to show why Bow Lucina is one of the most broken units in the game, even without a Link Skill, because Future Visions is actually busted, but busted in a way calculators don't measure.* Hell, take dancers---by any calculator related standard dancers are actual garbage due to having the lowest BST in the game, but I personally think they're the best unit type in the game.

*Mind that it's hilariously hard to use properly, and it's mostly hyper-offensive teams like mine---which seem to be rare as hell---that care the most about it.

 

If all you rate units on is how well they perform on a calculator then we can just stop here, though, because I rate units based on things calculators don't measure. A unit's combat really only matters if they need it to do their job, and that depends both on the unit itself (what its main role is), and the team around that unit (what units the team has problems with).

In my Azura/Azura/Cordelia/Rein/Lyn team, for example, the only Azura whose combat mattered was the flying one---because it's her job to kill green dragons that the rest of the team has problems with, which is rare enough that she didn't really need much of it. The tome Azura could've been level 1 and made 0 difference---she was there to improve the team's mobility, toss around some occasional defense buffs, and that's it.

20 minutes ago, XRay said:

I do not think multi pony/flier Galeforce-Desperation units are bad enough to warrant a nerf. If they allow a player to run a team full of dual phase armors, restricting flier/pony teams from running multi Galeforcers is just being petty.

Flashing Blade, Quickened Pulse, and Heavy Blade are not Desperation Galeforce. Their problem is that they enable Desperation Galeforce, or Missiletainn Blazing Wind, or any special that might become dangerous. They restrict 'safe' design space a lot just by existing, particularly if you allow teams multiple copies of the effect.

 

This is fundamentally because it's easier to 'check' units than to 'counter' units. A 'check' spends more of its resources to deal with the unit it 'checks' than a 'counter.' A staff spends all of jack diddly to kill a Vantage QR dragon, my Flying Azura would have like 10 hp after killing a Vantage QR Grima. This means a staff can kill the second Vantage QR just as easily, but Azura would just die to the second one.

Therefore:

If Vantage QR is limited to one a team, Flying Azura is a good enough option to deal with QR Vantage Grima.

If Vantage QR is not, then you're going to need to run a counter or multiple checks (as many checks are Vantage QRs are allowed), which is a lot more limiting from a team-building perspective.

 

Flashing Blade etc. aren't at the point where any single set is a big problem yet, but the problem is that the moment such a set exists, you have 3 copies of it if needed, which is a nightmare from a skill design standpoint if you want to have a game balanced around checks rather than a game balanced around hard counters. Making Flashing Blade limited makes it so that Fliers and Horses can have stronger specials than 'safe' if it wasn't limited.

[XRay]

1 hour ago, DehNutCase said:

unless you go through the trouble

That is why I use kill count; it is not perfect but it gets the point across. Flashing Blade is better, but it is not so much better to the point of warranting a nerf.

1 hour ago, DehNutCase said:

Flashing Blade, Quickened Pulse, and Heavy Blade are not Desperation Galeforce. Their problem is that they enable Desperation Galeforce, or Missiletainn Blazing Wind, or any special that might become dangerous. They restrict 'safe' design space a lot just by existing, particularly if you allow teams multiple copies of the effect.

And dual phase armors are not as dangerous? Dual phase armors are also intuitively simple to use. Based on how players describe them on this forum, you just have them simply march forward to your objective; at worst, maybe you will do a Swap or something to avoid triangle disadvantage.

1 hour ago, DehNutCase said:

This is fundamentally because it's easier to 'check' units than to 'counter' units. A 'check' spends more of its resources to deal with the unit it 'checks' than a 'counter.' A staff spends all of jack diddly to kill a Vantage QR dragon, my Flying Azura would have like 10 hp after killing a Vantage QR Grima. This means a staff can kill the second Vantage QR just as easily, but Azura would just die to the second one.

Therefore:

If Vantage QR is limited to one a team, Flying Azura is a good enough option to deal with QR Vantage Grima.

If Vantage QR is not, then you're going to need to run a counter or multiple checks (as many checks are Vantage QRs are allowed), which is a lot more limiting from a team-building perspective.

 

Flashing Blade etc. aren't at the point where any single set is a big problem yet, but the problem is that the moment such a set exists, you have 3 copies of it if needed, which is a nightmare from a skill design standpoint if you want to have a game balanced around checks rather than a game balanced around hard counters. Making Flashing Blade limited makes it so that Fliers and Horses can have stronger specials than 'safe' if it wasn't limited.

If we are talking about the AI, there is nothing the AI can do that can seriously pose a threat to competent players with sufficient access to resources. If the player is having trouble with Vantage-Quick Riposte units or any type of Enemy Phase unit, a Firesweep nuke shuts all of that down. Arena is stupid easy once you achieve a score past pony teams. For Arena Assault, you can pick counters; if you are a whale, you can just build performance teams and not bother with counters. For Aether Raids, you have 5 team slots, which means you have a 4 member core team like in Arena Assault. With a 4 member core team, a player with sufficient resources should have no excuse for not being able cover 100% of enemy builds.

Edited December 8, 2018 by XRay

[redlight]

6 hours ago, daisy jane said:

well i did a thing :)
I completed everything in Tactics from basic to grandmaster
now the only thing i have to do is clear several chapters in Hard mode (that i somehow skipped, but i am using those orbs as a "omg i need to get so and so" bank. 
and start doing chain challenges 

 

couldn't it just be the time of year? I mean i know for me i just couldn't spend anything extra right now not with Christmas around the corner. 

Nah. That's just Surtr's banner being the worst performing new heroes banner in the game and a lack of interest in the game. Whales spend money regardless of what month it is

[TheWill]

1 hour ago, silveraura25 said:

Nah. That's just Surtr's banner being the worst performing new heroes banner in the game and a lack of interest in the game. Whales spend money regardless of what month it is

It's no real surprise. The two new banners this month both the most hated banners in this games existence. Hopefully this means a break from 2-person banners, OCs, alts and Awakening/Fates, but Radiant Dawn isn't till January... So what's the New Heroes banner this month? I do hope it is Archanea, but I'm doubtful.