Fire Emblem Heroes General Discussion and Links

[Othin]

14 minutes ago, Lewyn said:

One thing about Thracia.  Leif, Nanna, and Finn are all key important characters in FE4.  So the only true new Thracia original we were given was Saias, a GHB unit.  It would be like introducing Radiant Dawn finally to the game, and having a banner of Ike, Soren and Titania.  Yeah great, they are of course a part of Radiant Dawn.  However they would be know from anyone who played Path of Radiance as they are important characters there.

So playing it safe, yeah it was super safe.  The banner was Leif and Nanna, both feature characters in Genealogy, then an alt of Olwen and an alt of Reinhardt both who were already introduced a year earlier in heroes.  Not to mention how Reinhardt completely overshadowed Leif as a red.  What if on Micaiah's debut banner there was a Soren alt as the same color/weapon type but a much better weapon and being an armor or flier?  

I can't really defend this banner, and thing is it is unlikely Thracia gets another for a long time.  Maybe in 2 years or something.  So where are important Thracia originals like Mareeta and Othin?  Will they get in the game before it dies?  If there were Vegas odds on this, It would likely be strongly in favor of them never showing up in the game. 

 

That's not a fair comparison. Leif, Nanna, and Finn all had minor roles in FE4 but were the main characters of FE5. FE5 is obviously the right game to associate them with. That's like if Eliwood and Hector took a while to be added to the game and you complained that they didn't count as FE7 characters because of also being in FE6.

Also, to be honest? "Important Thracia originals" is kind of an oxymoron. Thracia originals are, by definition, characters who weren't relevant to the larger conflict in FE4. I love Osian and I love FE5, but let's be honest: Osian isn't important even within FE5. He's memorable, but a big part of the reason he stands out so much is that FE5 is rather short on memorable characters.

[Icelerate]

2 hours ago, Othin said:

That seems like a bit of a strange thing to expect. Especially when FE10 had only had one character before its banner, then got just four more total with Zelgius arguably being an alt. Although admittedly FE5 didn't also have a bunch of characters shared with other games already present.

Remember, FE5 is the least-played and least well-known FE game. It's important to be realistic. And complaining about what it does get just sends the message to IS that it's not worth their trouble to try to please FE5 fans, which personally is something I'd very much like to avoid.

I wasn't too impressed with the FE10 banner either. It introduced only three new characters, Micaiah, Sothe and Oliver. Oliver was a meme pick and not something that would please most Tellius fans. This new FE10 banner was much better as it introduced 5 new characters. I do think Thracia banner was better than this one. 

2017 and 2019 so far have been a lot better in terms of adding new heroes per banner. 

[Othin]

1 minute ago, Icelerate said:

I wasn't too impressed with the FE10 banner either. It introduced only three new characters, Micaiah, Sothe and Oliver. Oliver was a meme pick and not something that would please most Tellius fans. This new FE10 banner was much better as it introduced 5 new characters. I do think Thracia banner was better than this one. 

2017 and 2019 so far have been a lot better in terms of adding new heroes per banner. 

I agree, the Micaiah banner was not great. I'm just saying that seemed like a reason to have kept expectations low for the FE5 banner. Which, basing expectations on the Micaiah banner, I feel like it should have exceeded, honestly.

And yeah, the 2019 New Heroes banners are a lot better. I hope they continue like this.

[silverserpent]

2 hours ago, Icelerate said:

I can't see him. 

He's gonna be added in the next update is what i mean.

[Lewyn]

1 hour ago, Othin said:

That's not a fair comparison. Leif, Nanna, and Finn all had minor roles in FE4 but were the main characters of FE5. FE5 is obviously the right game to associate them with. That's like if Eliwood and Hector took a while to be added to the game and you complained that they didn't count as FE7 characters because of also being in FE6.

Also, to be honest? "Important Thracia originals" is kind of an oxymoron. Thracia originals are, by definition, characters who weren't relevant to the larger conflict in FE4. I love Osian and I love FE5, but let's be honest: Osian isn't important even within FE5. He's memorable, but a big part of the reason he stands out so much is that FE5 is rather short on memorable characters.

That's true it isn't the best of comparisons.  However they certainly did play it super safe and took no risks.  The Genealogy banners have done well, and Leif and Nanna would be known to everyone who has played that game.  Reinhardt and Olwen would be known by everyone who has played Heroes since their original versions had been in the game a long time . Let's not forget Reinhardt is just a mini boss and he gets an alt.  

I can't speak too much on FE5 memorable characters, I did play through that patch once but the translation is glitchy and poor, I think I got a sense of some of them though.

[Rezzy]

1 hour ago, Icelerate said:

I wasn't too impressed with the FE10 banner either. It introduced only three new characters, Micaiah, Sothe and Oliver. Oliver was a meme pick and not something that would please most Tellius fans. This new FE10 banner was much better as it introduced 5 new characters. I do think Thracia banner was better than this one. 

2017 and 2019 so far have been a lot better in terms of adding new heroes per banner. 

Seeing as the Dawn Brigade was Nolan's best chance to get into FEH, I was pretty let down by the FE10 banner, not to mention we had to wait a whole year before another Tellius banner.  And FE9 hasn't had a banner for over a year and a half now.  Zelgius was really out of place on that banner, and he didn't even have his Begnion armor, so he was basically BK-helmet.

I don't mind them adding Oliver, but I'd like to see games not have to go a year or more between banners.

[Othin]

1 minute ago, Lewyn said:

That's true it isn't the best of comparisons.  However they certainly did play it super safe and took no risks.  The Genealogy banners have done well, and Leif and Nanna would be known to everyone who has played that game.  Reinhardt and Olwen would be known by everyone who has played Heroes since their original versions had been in the game a long time . Let's not forget Reinhardt is just a mini boss and he gets an alt.  

I can't speak too much on FE5 memorable characters, I did play through that patch once but the translation is glitchy and poor, I think I got a sense of some of them though.

I can agree that they played it safe. I can't fault them for that, with FE5 being what it is. They managed to balance that out with getting plenty of new characters by making it what's still the only 6-character set since Book 1, so personally, I can't complain.

I don't mind Reinhardt getting special treatment, with how notorious he became for his performance in Heroes. He seems to have become the best-known character in FE5, which is weird, but it is what it is. Olwen seems more random to me. I'd be frustrated if I felt like they were at the expense of "character slots" that could plausibly have gone to new characters, but I just don't feel like that's the case.

The thing about FE5 is that in addition to the original characters being minor on the continent scale, they also got the FE1/2/3 treatment of having a very small number of lines. FE4 developed its characters at least somewhat better (by actually giving them some proper conversations after recruitment) and FE1/2/3 got remakes to expand on things, which leaves FE5 in a kind of weird spot. If it ever gets a remake (which I very much hope it will), it should change that, but it just doesn't have one yet.

[Jotari]

4 hours ago, Othin said:

Yeah, I'm still not completely happy with FE5's roster (obviously), but it's in a much better state than it used to be.

If we get Osian and Mareeta as random one-off free units (like Gharnef) and get another FE4 Gen 2 banner with Ced, I'm willing to accept that as the best feasible FE5 roster for the foreseeable future.

Maretta should be too good to be a free unit.

[Rezzy]

2 hours ago, Othin said:

I agree, the Micaiah banner was not great. I'm just saying that seemed like a reason to have kept expectations low for the FE5 banner. Which, basing expectations on the Micaiah banner, I feel like it should have exceeded, honestly.

And yeah, the 2019 New Heroes banners are a lot better. I hope they continue like this.

We've only had two new banners so far, so it's not a lot to go off of.  The Hostile Springs really took up a new banner slot when it shouldn't have.  After the staccato seasonals we had since last summer, it really hurt.

[Tybrosion]

15 minutes ago, Jotari said:

Maretta should be too good to be a free unit.

You would think so, but there's a good chance IS wouldn't agree with that since we did get Marisa as a TT unit when her level of popularity should've gotten her what was given to Karla instead. That, and also the sad case of Finn who should've at least gotten Swordhardt's weapon but as a lance.

[Baldrick]

1 hour ago, Othin said:

I can agree that they played it safe. I can't fault them for that, with FE5 being what it is. They managed to balance that out with getting plenty of new characters by making it what's still the only 6-character set since Book 1, so personally, I can't complain.

 

Reinhardt and Olwen were net negatives on the Thracia banner. They didn't increase representation, and killed any possibility of more Thracia banners.

Compare Genealogy. Without an English release and sparse characterisation, they have a fraction of the popularity of the English releases. Yet it got two altless banners where FE7, Sacred Stones and even Awakening didn't, because IS trusts the characters' design, personality and skills to win over players.

[Othin]

7 minutes ago, Baldrick said:

 

Reinhardt and Olwen were net negatives on the Thracia banner. They didn't increase representation, and killed any possibility of more Thracia banners.

Compare Genealogy. Without an English release and sparse characterisation, they have a fraction of the popularity of the English releases. Yet it got two altless banners where FE7, Sacred Stones and even Awakening didn't, because IS trusts the characters' design, personality and skills to win over players.

I see no evidence to suggest that Reinhardt and Olwen hurt the possibility of future Thracia banners. They're at worst a zero, not a negative.

I don't think we can read that much into "got altless banners". The era of "mix alts and normal new characters" was from January 2018 to July 2018. All alts released on otherwise normal banners (Zelgius, Eirika, Chrom, Reinhardt, Olwen, Hinoka, Nino, and Olivia) were during that time, at least one on each banner with the exception of the FE4 one. I don't think we can read that as meaning IS must trust FE4 more than Awakening and Fates. I'm not exactly sure why FE4 was an exception, but I think it's a combination of the existing FE4 Gen 2 characters (Seliph and Julia) not having the kind of popularity of characters like Chrom, Reinhardt, or Nino, and them wanting to experiment with different banner structures, that one being a return to the "old" structure. It seems to have been a successful experiment.

[Troykv]

21 minutes ago, Tybrosion said:

You would think so, but there's a good chance IS wouldn't agree with that since we did get Marisa as a TT unit when her level of popularity should've gotten her what was given to Karla instead. That, and also the sad case of Finn who should've at least gotten Swordhardt's weapon but as a lance.

I think the reason he said that it's because... Mareeta would be the perfect opportunity to implement a Level 3 Skill that isn't Galeforce/Aether into the mix; some kind of Star Moonlight thing.

[Rezzy]

Anyone think it's weird that we still haven't gotten the Red and Green versions of the Serpent Tome?  Maybe if they didn't feel the need to give every new unit and their dog a prf weapon we could get some more new inheritable weapons.  We also still need to Firesweep Axe, which has almost two years since the Firesweeps got introduced.

[Othin]

1 minute ago, Rezzy said:

Anyone think it's weird that we still haven't gotten the Red and Green versions of the Serpent Tome?  Maybe if they didn't feel the need to give every new unit and their dog a prf weapon we could get some more new inheritable weapons.  We also still need to Firesweep Axe, which has almost two years since the Firesweeps got introduced.

It's weird, yeah. Maybe they think people wouldn't be enthusiastic about them. Doesn't explain why they didn't give Canas Raudhrserpent, though.

If Lugh is on the FE6 banner, maybe he'll get Gronnserpent?

[Rezzy]

2 minutes ago, Othin said:

It's weird, yeah. Maybe they think people wouldn't be enthusiastic about them. Doesn't explain why they didn't give Canas Raudhrserpent, though.

If Lugh is on the FE6 banner, maybe he'll get Gronnserpent?

Maybe, but it seems they think every new unit needs a weapon with a PhD level thesis paper for a skill description.

[Tybrosion]

9 minutes ago, Troykv said:

I think the reason he said that it's because... Mareeta would be the perfect opportunity to implement a Level 3 Skill that isn't Galeforce/Aether into the mix; some kind of Star Moonlight thing.

They could, but they could also just give her Regnal Astra and call it a day instead.

[Othin]

2 minutes ago, Tybrosion said:

They could, but they could also just give her Regnal Astra and call it a day instead.

Ayra with gen 3 infantry BST? Dear god.

[Lord-Zero]

12 hours ago, Othin said:

Why do people keep bringing up Thracia? We still got four fully new characters there (Leif, Nanna, Finn, and Saias), which is tied for the most of any banners from that time period. 

I was talking about the Thracia banner itself which featured 2 alts. 

[Tybrosion]

5 minutes ago, Othin said:

Ayra with gen 3 infantry BST? Dear god.

I mean, that's almost certainly going to happen in the form of Ayra's actual kid (Larcei) first anyways so why not?

[Icelerate]

2 hours ago, Rezzy said:

Seeing as the Dawn Brigade was Nolan's best chance to get into FEH, I was pretty let down by the FE10 banner, not to mention we had to wait a whole year before another Tellius banner.  And FE9 hasn't had a banner for over a year and a half now.  Zelgius was really out of place on that banner, and he didn't even have his Begnion armor, so he was basically BK-helmet.

I don't mind them adding Oliver, but I'd like to see games not have to go a year or more between banners.

I would have liked to see a four person summoning focus instead of three person and instead of Zelgius, add Nolan and Edward. Micaiah is really popular and would have carried the banner by herself so it was the perfect opportunity to add less popular characters instead of another popular alt unless IS was stupid to think Micaiah wouldn't sell. 

A lot of people are saying that they don't want any more Tellius banners any time soon or else it'll get over represented but I agree with you that PoR could use a banner. We still don't have Ashnard in the game as PoR does not have a single GHB associated with it. 

3 hours ago, Othin said:

I agree, the Micaiah banner was not great. I'm just saying that seemed like a reason to have kept expectations low for the FE5 banner. Which, basing expectations on the Micaiah banner, I feel like it should have exceeded, honestly.

And yeah, the 2019 New Heroes banners are a lot better. I hope they continue like this.

I made a thread on Reddit about the banner and pointed out that there wasn't a huge negative reaction on YouTube like the other banners. I do think both banners are a net positive. People were upset Finn and Leif were not strong units like Reinhardt. 

2 hours ago, silverserpent said:

He's gonna be added in the next update is what i mean.

I realized that's what you meant after posting the question on Reddit. I got concerned that Naesala had already been released but my version was bugged or not updated properly or something. I too have enough resources to +6 him. He's such a good unit. 

[Baldrick]

13 minutes ago, Othin said:

I see no evidence to suggest that Reinhardt and Olwen hurt the possibility of future Thracia banners. They're at worst a zero, not a negative.

Apart from the obvious lack of banners, the lord and his popular friends not being trusted to sell a banner despite the fact that they were announced a month in advance, an unprecedented move at the time.

13 minutes ago, Othin said:

I'm not exactly sure why FE4 was an exception, but I think it's a combination of the existing FE4 Gen 2 characters (Seliph and Julia) not having the kind of popularity of characters like Chrom, Reinhardt, or Nino,

What about Sigurd?

13 minutes ago, Othin said:

and them wanting to experiment with different banner structures, that one being a return to the "old" structure. It seems to have been a successful experiment.

Which is why they spent several months afterwards on OCs (creating two man banners to draw it out even further), added another seasonal banner and played their beast cards.

[Othin]

5 minutes ago, Lord-Zero said:

I was talking about the Thracia banner itself which featured 2 alts. 

I think it's always most accurate to count free units.

In any case: Thracia main banner had 2 alts and 2 new characters. Lots of other banners from around that time had 1 alt and 2 new characters. Does adding another alt while keeping the number of new characters the same really hurt anything?

4 minutes ago, Tybrosion said:

I mean, that's almost certainly going to happen in the form of Ayra's actual kid (Larcei) first anyways so why not?

Maybe? She doesn't have to get Regnal Astra. And I think it'd just start feeling redundant and overdone on three units, so I hope they don't go that far.

2 minutes ago, Icelerate said:

I made a thread on Reddit about the banner and pointed out that there wasn't a huge negative reaction on YouTube like the other banners. I do think both banners are a net positive. People were upset Finn and Leif were not strong units like Reinhardt. 

Good catch, I was curious about the likes/dislikes but hadn't checked.

[Tybrosion]

2 minutes ago, Othin said:

Maybe? She doesn't have to get Regnal Astra. And I think it'd just start feeling redundant and overdone on three units, so I hope they don't go that far.

Regnal Astra Mareeta was just a suggestion on my part, not an assumption. At the very least, it's probably going to show up again on Larcei and/or Shannan.

[Lord-Zero]

1 minute ago, Othin said:

I think it's always most accurate to count free units.

You didn’t get it; the welfares have no business in my argument. I was talking about the banner itself. The banner by itself. The ones that you can roll in the gacha. 

As unlikely as it is, we could be in for a Binding Blade banner with more than one alt.