Fire Emblem Heroes General Discussion and Links

[Lewyn]

I think with his great stats and kit, Roy will make a good impact.  He has really good physical/magical bulk, speed so high he will double everyone, works well with bonus doubler (really only infantry units with natural DC units are good with that, and there are pretty few), and gets pretty much a better version of emblem hones with giving the +6atk/+6spd to himself and working with any human rather than being limited to movement type.  Gen3 BST does wonders.  

Yes and Reinhardt was the banner seller, look at this a more powerful brave sword that hits on enemy phase as well!  Or you can have the lord of Thracia a infantry sword with decent stats, and a unique skill only useful in Tempest trials.  So there was no trust in the actual relevant important characters of Thracia to sell the banner, even the lord himself.  They could have made Light brand amazing but they didn't. 

Also when talking about representation one has to take into account launch units.  Having zero launch units means those games deserve to have much more banners than ones with a bunch of them (like Fates and Awakening).  So FE4 is underrepresented still, Tellius as a whole is underrepresented, Thracia is by far the least represented game.

 

[Jotari]

4 minutes ago, Lewyn said:

I think with his great stats and kit, Roy will make a good impact.  He has really good physical/magical bulk, speed so high he will double everyone, works well with bonus doubler (really only infantry units with natural DC units are good with that, and there are pretty few), and gets pretty much a better version of emblem hones with giving the +6atk/+6spd to himself and working with any human rather than being limited to movement type.  Gen3 BST does wonders.  

Yes and Reinhardt was the banner seller, look at this a more powerful brave sword that hits on enemy phase as well!  Or you can have the lord of Thracia a infantry sword with decent stats, and a unique skill only useful in Tempest trials.  So there was no trust in the actual relevant important characters of Thracia to sell the banner, even the lord himself.  They could have made Light brand amazing but they didn't. 

Also when talking about representation one has to take into account launch units.  Having zero launch units means those games deserve to have much more banners than ones with a bunch of them (like Fates and Awakening).  So FE4 is underrepresented still, Tellius as a whole is underrepresented, Thracia is by far the least represented game.

 

They could have made Leif a seller by himself by just giving him Distant Counter as an A skill. Would have been an increase in pulls for him if only as inheritance fodder (I would have said give Light Brand innate Distant Counter but IS continues to consider that impossible for some reason).

[Rezzy]

5 minutes ago, Jotari said:

They could have made Leif a seller by himself by just giving him Distant Counter as an A skill. Would have been an increase in pulls for him if only as inheritance fodder (I would have said give Light Brand innate Distant Counter but IS continues to consider that impossible for some reason).

Unless you're a dragon, in which case DC and adaptive damage are perfectly fine together for some reason.

[Tybrosion]

21 minutes ago, Jotari said:

Maretta is far more capable as a unit in terms of gameplay than any of them (though I agree that Finn should have had a Master Lance). She's one of those units that can basically destroy anything she engages combat with. Making her a tempest trials or grand hero battle would be pretty underwhelming (though I suppose the Black Knight keeps his relative power as a free unit, so I guess it's not impossible).

I don't doubt that, but they've also turned characters who could carry their entire party in their respective game (Robin, Seth, Titania to name a few) into afterthoughts in Heroes, at least by comparison. Mareeta may well end up as someone who surpasses even Ayra and Karla...or just as Marisa but with the Gen 3 boost. IS is rather predictable in certain areas, but this isn't one of them (in my opinion at least).

[bottlegnomes]

14 minutes ago, Jotari said:

That secondary effect is Dragon Effectiveness though, so I'm not sure we can really count it as a proper secondary effect. Falchions and other weapons (such as the original Binding Blade when refined) already treat it like a free effect. Granted it's more than any other Distant Counter weapon has had so far (other than maybe the Sabre's Golden Knife, and I suppose if we just count pure effects, Lightning Breath has Distant Counter + Effective Damage) so it's a step in the right direction. Or more like a half step/hop in the right direction.

I think that's probably why they took this opportunity to do it. One, the effect makes sense, and two, as you said, it's not really treated as a full effect in proper so it's not even really violating the convention, just testing the waters. IS seems to have gotten a lot more cautious with their introducing a lot of new effects over time, like Leif. Saber was already testing the waters, and Roy seems to be the next logical step. At this rate, I'm sure we'll see a DC weapon with a full-fledged, if not particularly powerful, secondary effect in the somewhat near future.

Saber was what I had in mind when I said pure DC weapons, probably could've worded better. Since he has conditional DC, he wouldn't be considered full-fledged DC, kinda like Julia with her CC.

Dragons have always been kind of a weird case, but I guess they thought it would be even weirder to have one dragon weapon that didn't have adaptive damage, and figured the CD reduction and low might would work to mitigate it some.

[Flying Shogi]

Not sure how many people would want this but I personally would like them to allow us to delete skills that we have inherited onto a unit. Whenever I look at a unit that doesn't have the level 3 version of the skill in their skills list, my OCD kicks in and get tempted to waste fodder to patch it up. 

Edited March 6, 2019 by Flying Shogi

[bottlegnomes]

@Lewyn You mean a unit with Ayra-level stats, a conditional 23 might weapon with a brand new effect, and Quickened Pulse+. It's incredibly easy to make anyone look bad if you cherrypick attributes. I'll repeat my question: What about Reinhardt's kit says we put thought into this?

[Rezzy]

6 minutes ago, Flying Shogi said:

Not sure how many people would want this but I personally would like them to allow us to delete skills that we have inherited onto a unit. Whenever I look at a unit that doesn't have the level 3 version of the skill in their skills list, my OCD kicks in and want to waste fodder to patch it up. 

I would be scared of accidentally deleting skills, if that was an option.  (Or having my kids do so)

Speaking of OCD, I wish there was something that would allow us to use non-5-divisible amounts of feathers.  Seeing my feathers not end in 5 or 0 really bothered me back circa a year ago.

[Icelerate]

1 hour ago, bottlegnomes said:

Finn is a different story, but I still stand wholeheartedly by that IS did not in any way intend Reinhardt to be better than Leif. Rein got "Eh, screw it, EP brave." Leif got a brand new effect on his weapon and a personal skill on top of a very solid statline. They were underwhelming, but I think that has more to do with IS not always being the best judge of things rather than any intentional favoritism.

 

We got shining bow not that far after Leif. Banners seem to take over six months to make so there's no way IS would have seen it's effect on the meta and deem it unworthy of prf status and then add it on the September Fates banner. 

2 hours ago, Rezzy said:

Overrepresented how?  We've had new 4 banners in two years, and there were no units at launch.  Tellius only has a fraction of its playable cast in FEH right now.

While I exaggerated, there were some people who thought a Tellius seasonal just one month after a Tellius banner was too much in too little time. 

[Rezzy]

1 minute ago, Icelerate said:

While I exaggerated, there were some people who thought a Tellius seasonal just one month after a Tellius banner was too much in too little time. 

Fair enough, but to be fair it was PoR vs RD.  Not to mention that would qualify for pretty much every Awakening or Fates banner.

[Baldrick]

5 hours ago, Othin said:

Dire Thunder Reinhardt increased the total amount of attention being paid to FE5,

He increased the amount of attention paid to Reinhardt. His effect on the meta overshadowed his bit role in the plot.

Quote

They announced Finn rather than Reinhardt or Olwen because they knew Finn was the one that would really get the attention of FE5 fans. Leif, Nanna, and Finn were the big three FE5 fans were looking for.

Despite their popularity, they weren't considered capable of selling a banner.

Quote

The Lewyn banner, unlike the Ishtar one, was not in the era of alts. It marked the beginning of the "post-alts" era of normal banners, but it was joined by the Conquest banner just a week later. That doesn't suggest something about FE4 specifically so much as a general change in how they were making banners.

If IS don't specifically trust FE4, but still give it multiple banners without alts, why don't they do the same for Thracia?

Quote

I'm not sure what you're saying it's telling of.

Releasing beasts at this rate suggests they're not confident in non-beast NH banners. The Binding Blade banner will give a better indication of what they're thinking.

Edited March 4, 2019 by Baldrick

[JSND Alter Dragon Boner]

1 hour ago, Rezzy said:

Unless you're a dragon, in which case DC and adaptive damage are perfectly fine together for some reason.

In fairness, IF, and i would admit this is a big if, IF DC is consdiered a fair skill in consideration, Dragon was actually not that strong.

 

Back in the oldie days, Wo Dao DC had a stronger overall power level on the top end, while post refine the CD up is still a decisive limitation in a world where most weapon adds 9 bulk or 3 Speed while having broken killer effect. Its why Adaptive damage is as batshit as it is to make up for everything else

 

Of course reality isn't like that and DC is a rare skill

 

[Rezzy]

2 minutes ago, JSND Alter Dragon Boner said:

In fairness, IF, and i would admit this is a big if, IF DC is consdiered a fair skill in consideration, Dragon was actually not that strong.

 

Back in the oldie days, Wo Dao DC had a stronger overall power level on the top end, while post refine the CD up is still a decisive limitation in a world where most weapon adds 9 bulk or 3 Speed while having broken killer effect. Its why Adaptive damage is as batshit as it is to make up for everything else

 

Of course reality isn't like that and DC is a rare skill

 

I wonder why they didn't just make Light Brand adaptive damage, rather than the weird effect it has now, same for Shining Bow.

[JSND Alter Dragon Boner]

4 minutes ago, Rezzy said:

I wonder why they didn't just make Light Brand adaptive damage, rather than the weird effect it has now, same for Shining Bow.

They want to introduce that new effect

 

Which frankly, by all means its RIDICULOUSLY good. LIke actually. 7 unmitigated damage is powerful as all hell

 

The problem is unlike future editions of it, Leif is binary

If foe's Def ≥ foe's Res+5, deals +7 damage.

boosts damage dealt by 70% of difference between stats. (Maximum bonus of +7 damage. Combos with Phantom Spd.)

Karla's weapon would have been easy to control even if she doesn't have the speed she have. Phantom Speed seals literally adds 10 to the whole thing, and its scaled out

Leif weapon is fine, but i feel they really should have made it a range

 

of course Leif is much less annoying to proc on Abyssal or something

[Lewyn]

1 hour ago, bottlegnomes said:

@Lewyn You mean a unit with Ayra-level stats, a conditional 23 might weapon with a brand new effect, and Quickened Pulse+. It's incredibly easy to make anyone look bad if you cherrypick attributes. I'll repeat my question: What about Reinhardt's kit says we put thought into this?

How does all that stack up against Reinhardt?  What unit is more interesting, stronger, stands out more?  In this case it isn't close.  Red cavalier is much less bloated than red infantry sword.  An 11 MT brave weapon that works on both phases was mind blowing (still is) at the time, it allows him to do DC, vantage and the opponent has to eat 2 attacks regardless of what phase.   Swordhardt might still be the best red cav in the game, while Leif has been long forgotten.  

When the banner dropped many talked about how scared they were to be pity broken by Leif.  The lord of FE5 was a footnote to the first dedicated Thracia banner.  It wasn't cause Reinhardt was some character with complicated mechanics and much later people found out wow he is one of the best.  It was obvious with the dual phase higher MT PRF brave weapon and great stats from the beginning.  So yes while Leif is indeed a very good unit, I pulled one off focus recently, he never was the seller or star of the banner despite being the most important character in FE5.  

[Jotari]

2 hours ago, bottlegnomes said:

I think that's probably why they took this opportunity to do it. One, the effect makes sense, and two, as you said, it's not really treated as a full effect in proper so it's not even really violating the convention, just testing the waters. IS seems to have gotten a lot more cautious with their introducing a lot of new effects over time, like Leif. Saber was already testing the waters, and Roy seems to be the next logical step. At this rate, I'm sure we'll see a DC weapon with a full-fledged, if not particularly powerful, secondary effect in the somewhat near future.

Saber was what I had in mind when I said pure DC weapons, probably could've worded better. Since he has conditional DC, he wouldn't be considered full-fledged DC, kinda like Julia with her CC.

Dragons have always been kind of a weird case, but I guess they thought it would be even weirder to have one dragon weapon that didn't have adaptive damage, and figured the CD reduction and low might would work to mitigate it some.

I'd more say adaptive damage is a free effect. Like how it'd be weird to have a Bow with innate Close Counter that doesn't deal effective flying damage, or a close counter knife that doesn't lower stats of some kind.

[Ice Dragon]

4 hours ago, Tybrosion said:

Regnal Astra Mareeta was just a suggestion on my part, not an assumption. At the very least, it's probably going to show up again on Larcei and/or Shannan.

Shannan is 100% guaranteed to not get Regnal Astra if he is implemented. Regnal Astra's Japanese name is 剣姫の流星 (kenki no ryuusei), "Sword Princess's Astra", which ties in with Ayra's Japanese title of 流星の剣姫 (ryuusei no kenki), "Astra's Sword Princess". Lakche is the only other character in the series that could make sense to receive Regnal Astra.

 

2 hours ago, bottlegnomes said:

What? Master weapons are on the whole weaker, less accurate, heavier, and less durable than hero/brave weapons. The one exception is the Master Axe which weirdly has 1-2 range and 1 more might than the brave axe, though it is still heavier, less accurate, and less durable.

EDIT: Upon double checking, Master Lance has 1-2 range too, so they're of similar overall power, trading stats for range.

Master Sword is only weaker than Brave Sword by 1 Mt. It is less accurate, heavier, and less durable, but has a higher Crit stat.

Master Lance and Master Axe are both stronger than their Brave counterparts and have ranged attack, with the trade off of being less accurate, heavier, and less durable.

Master Bow sucks compared to Brave Bow.

All Master weapons require a higher weapon level than their Brave counterparts.

 

2 hours ago, Rezzy said:

Unless you're a dragon, in which case DC and adaptive damage are perfectly fine together for some reason.

Adaptive damage is a free effect on breath weapons, just like how flier effectiveness is a free effect on bows, Def and Res debuffs are free effects on daggers, and transformation effects are free effects on beast weapons.

[Tybrosion]

9 minutes ago, Ice Dragon said:

Shannan is 100% guaranteed to not get Regnal Astra if he is implemented. Regnal Astra's Japanese name is 剣姫の流星 (kenki no ryuusei), "Sword Princess's Astra", which ties in with Ayra's Japanese title of 流星の剣姫 (ryuusei no kenki), "Astra's Sword Princess". Lakche is the only other character in the series that could make sense to receive Regnal Astra.

Yeah, it should be said that I as a pleb who only plays in English didn't know that until now. Thank you for that clarifying information.

[Ice Dragon]

17 minutes ago, Tybrosion said:

Yeah, it should be said that I as a pleb who only plays in English didn't know that until now. Thank you for that clarifying information.

Just doing my best to cover the things that are lost in translation.

[DraceEmpressa]

On 02/03/2019 at 1:03 PM, Flying Shogi said:

Does anyone have a unit type(movement type/weapon/refresher/healer etc) that they usually pull for? Outside of favorites, I pull for Valor skills if my orb stash allows for it. Recently I've been debating if I should pull for all of the healers. Of all of the healers, I'm only missing LB!Mia from the seasonal pool and the rest I can pull whenever they comeback so it's not that much of a stretch if I want to commit to it.

Ranged, player phase cavalry and fliers. If they are enemy phase I wouldn't pull, if they are melee I wouldn't pull too, and I also wouldn't pull for armors/infantries. I made other exception like Valor skills (although I i did not pull for Lance Valor last year because I hate infantries, and Lance Valor is the only valor skills I don't have yet), or bow flier (due to personal reasons, i will only ever  use Summer Takumi), and armored dragons with both DEF and RES high. 

[Jotari]

4 hours ago, Ice Dragon said:

Shannan is 100% guaranteed to not get Regnal Astra if he is implemented. Regnal Astra's Japanese name is 剣姫の流星 (kenki no ryuusei), "Sword Princess's Astra", which ties in with Ayra's Japanese title of 流星の剣姫 (ryuusei no kenki), "Astra's Sword Princess". Lakche is the only other character in the series that could make sense to receive Regnal Astra.

 

Master Sword is only weaker than Brave Sword by 1 Mt. It is less accurate, heavier, and less durable, but has a higher Crit stat.

Master Lance and Master Axe are both stronger than their Brave counterparts and have ranged attack, with the trade off of being less accurate, heavier, and less durable.

Master Bow sucks compared to Brave Bow.

All Master weapons require a higher weapon level than their Brave counterparts.

 

Adaptive damage is a free effect on breath weapons, just like how flier effectiveness is a free effect on bows, Def and Res debuffs are free effects on daggers, and transformation effects are free effects on beast weapons.

With hair that fabulous, Shannan could be a princess if he wanted.

[bottlegnomes]

@Icelerate Banners take six months, not every individual aspect. I'd imagine assigning a weapon effect is a minimal amount of effort and could probably be done in the course of a week or so, especially when they're existing effects given how skills seemed to be tagged based on what little attention I've paid to that. Nina came out just over 5 months after Leif (4/11 and 9/14). That's plenty of time to see that Light Brand didn't get the reception they expected and slap it on another, already in the works unit.

@Ice Dragon So what you're saying is Rein should've had a killer brave?

Edited March 4, 2019 by bottlegnomes

[Interdimensional Observer]

10 hours ago, Rezzy said:

Unless you're a dragon, in which case DC and adaptive damage are perfectly fine together for some reason.

Blame FE3 for this. Since Dragons there always ignore Def and Res, like it or not, you will take 16-20 damage a hit. Barring a dodge, which is a 50-50 thing in a pre-2 RN game. The only units who don't suffer this are other Dragons. It is a neat idea to reference, I admit, even if one criticizes it's execution in FEH.

 

10 hours ago, Lewyn said:

Also when talking about representation one has to take into account launch units.  Having zero launch units means those games deserve to have much more banners than ones with a bunch of them (like Fates and Awakening).  So FE4 is underrepresented still, Tellius as a whole is underrepresented, Thracia is by far the least represented game.

As a reminder, Binding Blade with the next banner, barring an Adrift-level altfest, will tie or more likely surpass Tellius in non-Seasonal PC representation both in absolute numbers and as a percentage of their total roster. It presently has 12 PCs, Tellius, discounting the BK as a playable, has 16 PCs. Why already, Binding Blade is still a few tenths above RD in PC rep- 22.22% vs. 21.92% (T766 has with five characters 9.61%).

A game with no units at launch and has had many banners vs. one that has had only characters from launch and now one banner. I think this supports your argument with hard evidence.

 

10 hours ago, Tybrosion said:

I don't doubt that, but they've also turned characters who could carry their entire party in their respective game (Robin, Seth, Titania to name a few) into afterthoughts in Heroes, at least by comparison. Mareeta may well end up as someone who surpasses even Ayra and Karla...or just as Marisa but with the Gen 3 boost. IS is rather predictable in certain areas, but this isn't one of them (in my opinion at least).

It would be funny to see someone go from playing FEH to a base game and then overreacting when they discover X FEH god/dess is weak in their base game, and that Y FEH peon is really strong. Although subjective tastes and a willing to do things from from efficient means this could easily not happen.

And at least for Mareeta, she from what I am aware is an incredible Esty character in her game. Although from what I'm aware, breaking baddies isn't hard in Thracia, and regardless, said unit will still be broken by status staffs. Be one Mareeta or Marty, Sleep is cheap and will make them reaped (and of course it's an elegant way to neutralize Reinhardt- sometimes I wish FEH units had unremovable nega-skills as a check on them).

 

7 hours ago, Ice Dragon said:

Shannan is 100% guaranteed to not get Regnal Astra if he is implemented. Regnal Astra's Japanese name is 剣姫の流星 (kenki no ryuusei), "Sword Princess's Astra", which ties in with Ayra's Japanese title of 流星の剣姫 (ryuusei no kenki), "Astra's Sword Princess". Lakche is the only other character in the series that could make sense to receive Regnal Astra.

So it's less (if still something) of reference to Odr-blooded Jugdralis having Astra access than I thought it was, and more just a fancy personal for Ayra. Well that isn't so nice.

[Othin]

9 hours ago, Baldrick said:

He increased the amount of attention paid to Reinhardt. His effect on the meta overshadowed his bit role in the plot.

Despite their popularity, they weren't considered capable of selling a banner.

If IS don't specifically trust FE4, but still give it multiple banners without alts, why don't they do the same for Thracia?

Releasing beasts at this rate suggests they're not confident in non-beast NH banners. The Binding Blade banner will give a better indication of what they're thinking.

I agree that Reinhardt's contribution to the attention paid to the rest of FE5 is minor, but it's there. He's popular enough that there are guaranteed to be some people who get more interested in the rest of FE5 due to it being "that game Reinhardt is from". And again, he didn't take away any attention that would have otherwise been paid to the rest of FE5.

Indeed, they weren't, because FE5's fans are not that numerous. There's no contradiction here.

IS didn't specifically trust or distrust FE4. They did specifically distrust FE5, and they were right to do so, because it's the least-played FE game and is unusually short on attention-grabbing characters. I already explained all of this yesterday, please reread my posts here rather than asking me to repeat myself.

Releasing beasts at this rate suggests they want to quickly flesh out the beast lineup. That's something people asked for even before we saw how many incentives there would be to use beasts alongside other beasts.

[Troykv]

20 minutes ago, Othin said:

I agree that Reinhardt's contribution to the attention paid to the rest of FE5 is minor, but it's there. He's popular enough that there are guaranteed to be some people who get more interested in the rest of FE5 due to it being "that game Reinhardt is from". And again, he didn't take away any attention that would have otherwise been paid to the rest of FE5.

Indeed, they weren't, because FE5's fans are not that numerous. There's no contradiction here.

IS didn't specifically trust or distrust FE4. They did specifically distrust FE5, and they were right to do so, because it's the least-played FE game and is unusually short on attention-grabbing characters. I already explained all of this yesterday, please reread my posts here rather than asking me to repeat myself.

Releasing beasts at this rate suggests they want to quickly flesh out the beast lineup. That's something people asked for even before we saw how many incentives there would be to use beasts alongside other beasts.

Yeah; probably their most eye catching characters are the FE4 Ones, Olwen and Mareeta.

And maybe Karin and Sara.

Edited March 4, 2019 by Troykv