Fire Emblem Heroes General Discussion and Links

[Sunwoo]

2 hours ago, Tybrosion said:

So far, they've all been maps that feature the characters in the current Voting Gauntlet (and in sequential order by game too I think). Though given that there's ten maps, I don't know which maps they picked for numbers 9 and 10.

Ah. I wouldn't have ever noticed that.

[Garlyle]

55 minutes ago, Landmaster said:

Lucina would be nice, but I'm waiting on Elise who hasn't had a Banner since last July IIRC

Well, she was close. Celica: Imprisoned Soul was last seen on a banner starting on 07/06/2018, and Elise had her last focus on 07/22/2018. They were just barely out of the top 5.

[Sunwoo]

Luke in particular is egregious because his last focus banner was his debut focus banner, in which he shared the color with two other units.

I still don't have him, so I wouldn't mind getting him for completionist's sake. But I also hate his stupid shark face grin and attitude, and he's not that great of a unit, especially since I already have a sword Reinhardt and several other sword cavaliers built up. If I get him as anything other than a free summon, I'd probably not be super happy to get him. But at the same time, I still would like to get him because he's a unit I don't have but he's not really good enough to justify getting excited over and to break your pity rate.

They should've just demoted him to begin with! Panic Ploy isn't even THAT good, especially on player units.

[Landmaster]

55 minutes ago, Garlyle said:

Well, she was close. Celica: Imprisoned Soul was last seen on a banner starting on 07/06/2018, and Elise had her last focus on 07/22/2018. They were just barely out of the top 5.

Duma Celica was another one that escaped me, got 3 Mias trying to get her from that Luna Banner, so I'd be happy to see her get a Banner again.

[JSND Alter Dragon Boner]

2 hours ago, Sunwoo said:

Luke in particular is egregious because his last focus banner was his debut focus banner, in which he shared the color with two other units.

I still don't have him, so I wouldn't mind getting him for completionist's sake. But I also hate his stupid shark face grin and attitude, and he's not that great of a unit, especially since I already have a sword Reinhardt and several other sword cavaliers built up. If I get him as anything other than a free summon, I'd probably not be super happy to get him. But at the same time, I still would like to get him because he's a unit I don't have but he's not really good enough to justify getting excited over and to break your pity rate.

They should've just demoted him to begin with! Panic Ploy isn't even THAT good, especially on player units.

Panic Ploy actually WAS THAT good, easilly one of the most powerful skill in its peak. Lets not forget its released during the peak of Horse Emblem - Panic Ploy during its release quite literally reduced your opponent's stats by -12 relative to what you usually face - reducing damage from Reinhardt by 24. This is on top of the threat list of original FEH arena which was EXTREMELY Ranged dominant, neutralizing Nino, which was one of the stupidest unit in Arena, even now.

It was so strong, that Virion can make a case for being one of(Top 3/right below Takumi and Innes) the best Archer(in fairness hes Top 5 at worst), since he can Panic Ploy on top of being Brave Archer. And again, before Refinements, Brave Bow Archer is borderline game breaking 

 

I DONT think Luke should be a 5* exclusive, at least not beyond the first demotion round, but Panic Ploy itself was an extremely powerful skill in Arena context. Its much weaker now that you can start tanking those shits without issues, so its "less needed" and we had enough C slot variety that Hone ATK wasn't the clear winner for 90% of cases

Edited May 3, 2019 by JSND Alter Dragon Boner

[Sunwoo]

28 minutes ago, JSND Alter Dragon Boner said:

Panic Ploy actually WAS THAT good, easilly one of the most powerful skill in its peak. Lets not forget its released during the peak of Horse Emblem - Panic Ploy during its release quite literally reduced your opponent's stats by -12 relative to what you usually face - reducing damage from Reinhardt by 24. This is on top of the threat list of original FEH arena which was EXTREMELY Ranged dominant, neutralizing Nino, which was one of the stupidest unit in Arena, even now.

It was so strong, that Virion can make a case for being one of(Top 3/right below Takumi and Innes) the best Archer(in fairness hes Top 5 at worst), since he can Panic Ploy on top of being Brave Archer. And again, before Refinements, Brave Bow Archer is borderline game breaking 

 

I DONT think Luke should be a 5* exclusive, at least not beyond the first demotion round, but Panic Ploy itself was an extremely powerful skill in Arena context. Its much weaker now that you can start tanking those shits without issues, so its "less needed" and we had enough C slot variety that Hone ATK wasn't the clear winner for 90% of cases

Was it really? I don't think I pulled a panic ploy unit until Zelgius, whose HP wasn't high enough for it to be reliable for most of the content I was facing, so I'm very meh on the skill personally. Even still, I don't know if it justified Luke being 5-star locked. Was he remarkable anywhere else? I don't even think his own base HP was high enough to justify his own base kit.

[Ice Dragon]

5 hours ago, Sunwoo said:

Was it really? I don't think I pulled a panic ploy unit until Zelgius, whose HP wasn't high enough for it to be reliable for most of the content I was facing, so I'm very meh on the skill personally. Even still, I don't know if it justified Luke being 5-star locked. Was he remarkable anywhere else? I don't even think his own base HP was high enough to justify his own base kit.

Skill Inheritance is a thing. Whether or not a skill is good on the unit that comes with it is completely irrelevant.

And by the time Zelgius was released, Panic Ploy was already a Sacred Seal, which severely reduced the value of the standard version of the skill since it isn't generally necessary to have more than one copy of the skill on your team.

[Jotari]

1 hour ago, Ice Dragon said:

Skill Inheritance is a thing. Whether or not a skill is good on the unit that comes with it is completely irrelevant.

And by the time Zelgius was released, Panic Ploy was already a Sacred Seal, which severely reduced the value of the standard version of the skill since it isn't generally necessary to have more than one copy of the skill on your team.

It's kind of relevant if you want to otherwise use the unit and they're in short supply. One could fodder Zelguis for panic ploy fodder, but if they genuinely want to use a great unit, well then panic ploy isn't all that worth it (course now a days we have free Panic Ploy with Garon, but my point is it does matter when getting units is difficult).

[Ice Dragon]

2 minutes ago, Jotari said:

It's kind of relevant if you want to otherwise use the unit and they're in short supply. One could fodder Zelguis for panic ploy fodder, but if they genuinely want to use a great unit, well then panic ploy isn't all that worth it (course now a days we have free Panic Ploy with Garon, but my point is it does matter when getting units is difficult).

That doesn't change how good the skill is, though.

And Zelgius's existence is also irrelevant because Luke was the only source of Panic Ploy prior to the introduction of the Sacred Seal. And Luke being extremely mediocre doesn't somehow make Panic Ploy bad, which was the point of the post you quoted.

[Jotari]

19 minutes ago, Ice Dragon said:

That doesn't change how good the skill is, though.

And Zelgius's existence is also irrelevant because Luke was the only source of Panic Ploy prior to the introduction of the Sacred Seal. And Luke being extremely mediocre doesn't somehow make Panic Ploy bad, which was the point of the post you quoted.

I'm not saying it's bad. I'm saying its quality is linked to it's availability. A skill coming with a unit who isn't able to fully utilize it makes it of lesser quality as it reduces potential access to that skill should you want to use that unit. IE, units being able to use the skills they come with does sort of matter, assuming you don't have infinite access to every unit.

Edited May 3, 2019 by Jotari

[Othin]

27 minutes ago, Ice Dragon said:

That doesn't change how good the skill is, though.

And Zelgius's existence is also irrelevant because Luke was the only source of Panic Ploy prior to the introduction of the Sacred Seal. And Luke being extremely mediocre doesn't somehow make Panic Ploy bad, which was the point of the post you quoted.

Wait, was the seal before Valter showed up? Unless you don't count him.

[Ice Dragon]

19 minutes ago, Jotari said:

I'm not saying it's bad. I'm saying its quality is linked to it's availability. A skill coming with a unit who isn't able to fully utilize it makes it of lesser quality as it reduces potential access to that skill should you want to use that unit. IE, units being able to use the skills they come with does sort of matter, assuming you don't have infinite access to every unit.

The skill's quality has nothing to do with its availability.

Skill Inheritance has always been a balancing act between using the unit as a unit or using the unit as skill fodder. Every skill that is restricted to 5-star-exclusive units is in this situation, and it's simply the player's decision as to which is more valuable to them.

 

6 minutes ago, Othin said:

Wait, was the seal before Valter showed up? Unless you don't count him.

Valter existed for all of 1 month before the Panic Ploy Sacred Seal was released, so Luke was the only source for the vast majority of the skill's lifetime as an inherited skill.

The Panic Ploy Sacred Seal was released on September 23. Valter was released on August 21. Luke was released on June 14.

[Othin]

3 hours ago, Ice Dragon said:

The skill's quality has nothing to do with its availability.

Skill Inheritance has always been a balancing act between using the unit as a unit or using the unit as skill fodder. Every skill that is restricted to 5-star-exclusive units is in this situation, and it's simply the player's decision as to which is more valuable to them.

 

Valter existed for all of 1 month before the Panic Ploy Sacred Seal was released, so Luke was the only source for the vast majority of the skill's lifetime as an inherited skill.

The Panic Ploy Sacred Seal was released on September 23. Valter was released on August 21. Luke was released on June 14.

2 out of 3 months is a majority, but I wouldn't call it a vast majority.

[Anacybele]

Yeah, so, why did the Gallia banner get a demote and the Kitsune/Wolfskin one didn't? I think both of them should've gotten one. In the case of the latter, I'd have gone with Velouria since she's not blue or green like Reyson and Mordecai. That way, the only color beast we'd be lacking a freebie in is red.

[Ice Dragon]

5 minutes ago, Anacybele said:

Yeah, so, why did the Gallia banner get a demote and the Kitsune/Wolfskin one didn't? I think both of them should've gotten one. In the case of the latter, I'd have gone with Velouria since she's not blue or green like Reyson and Mordecai. That way, the only color beast we'd be lacking a freebie in is red.

The Fates beasts banner was handled basically as a mid-term Farfetched Heroes banner. All four characters on the banner scored relatively well in recent CYLs, and Panne was added as the Grand Hero Battle unit despite not being a Fates character, but she fit the beast theme and also consistently placed well in CYL.

Furthermore, all of the units on the Farfetched Heroes banner had a notably strong weapon and/or premium skills. (In hindsight, while Kaden's skill set is rather unimpressive, his weapon is just absurdly good for a support role.)

Comparatively, the Tellius beast banners consisted of a mix of characters in terms of popularity (since there is a larger number of them and the games are older and less played), so it made it more reasonable to design some of them to be demotable while leaving the Fates beasts all exclusive.

[Tybrosion]

8 minutes ago, Ice Dragon said:

The Fates beasts banner was handled basically as a mid-term Farfetched Heroes banner. All four characters on the banner scored relatively well in recent CYLs, and Panne was added as the Grand Hero Battle unit despite not being a Fates character, but she fit the beast theme and also consistently placed well in CYL.

Furthermore, all of the units on the Farfetched Heroes banner had a notably strong weapon and/or premium skills. (In hindsight, while Kaden's skill set is rather unimpressive, his weapon is just absurdly good for a support role.)

Comparatively, the Tellius beast banners consisted of a mix of characters in terms of popularity (since there is a larger number of them and the games are older and less played), so it made it more reasonable to design some of them to be demotable while leaving the Fates beasts all exclusive.

So in other words, the answer to her question is just "because Fates bias".

[Anacybele]

1 minute ago, Tybrosion said:

So in other words, the answer to her question is just "because Fates bias".

Yep, sounds like this. :/

[Ice Dragon]

1 minute ago, Tybrosion said:

So in other words, the answer to her question is just "because Fates bias".

Jugdral beasts when?

[Interdimensional Observer]

2 minutes ago, Tybrosion said:

So in other words, the answer to her question is just "because Fates bias".

Wouldn't this be anti-bias though? It means you can't get them as easily.

 

1 minute ago, Ice Dragon said:

Jugdral beasts when?

Never. Instead, Larcei is stealing some of the 3H fisticuff stuff so she can stand out from her mother. Pugilists are going to be the next hot thing in FEH, Beasts will be yesterday's kitty litter.

 

Been liking the quintupled SP, finally got around to training most of my desirable units. Which I've otherwise found boring.

[Tybrosion]

8 minutes ago, Interdimensional Observer said:

Wouldn't this be anti-bias though? It means you can't get them as easily.

Perhaps it is in some senses, but I'd say it can be viewed as bias if you view a character being five star exclusive as an honor.

[Troykv]

11 minutes ago, Tybrosion said:

Perhaps it is in some senses, but I'd say it can be viewed as bias if you view a character being five star exclusive as an honor.

Well yeah; being a 5 Star Character has some special value for people because of their exclusiveness, and usual good qualities.

(Unless they're very bad and makes you do use honorifics ironically like kisama when you see them)

[Othin]

Got Brave Lucina from my free summon this morning, and finished training her up while doing today's TT quests. 5x Exp sure goes fast.

Brave Lucina doesn't add much to my team, especially since she's my fourth Lucina, but new units are always nice, and she rounds out the long-standing hole in my CYL1 units. And with Ephraim being one of my earlier ticket summons, I'm now just missing Celica from CYL2.

1 hour ago, Ice Dragon said:

The Fates beasts banner was handled basically as a mid-term Farfetched Heroes banner. All four characters on the banner scored relatively well in recent CYLs, and Panne was added as the Grand Hero Battle unit despite not being a Fates character, but she fit the beast theme and also consistently placed well in CYL.

Furthermore, all of the units on the Farfetched Heroes banner had a notably strong weapon and/or premium skills. (In hindsight, while Kaden's skill set is rather unimpressive, his weapon is just absurdly good for a support role.)

Comparatively, the Tellius beast banners consisted of a mix of characters in terms of popularity (since there is a larger number of them and the games are older and less played), so it made it more reasonable to design some of them to be demotable while leaving the Fates beasts all exclusive.

To be more exact - of the units that weren't yet in Heroes at the time, they were flat-out the five highest-scoring on CYL2. Everyone else ahead of any of them had already been added on other banners.

41 minutes ago, Tybrosion said:

Perhaps it is in some senses, but I'd say it can be viewed as bias if you view a character being five star exclusive as an honor.

Also an assessment that the character is more desirable and therefore one worth making rare, to push people who want them to pull for them.

Plus, to be honest, with the symmetry between the Fates beasts, picking one to demote would have seemed a bit weird.

[silverserpent]

I should probably use these 60k feathers for merges on Laslow or Xander...but I can't be bothered right now.

[LunaSaint]

I'm holding out on feather projects myself until I know what unit/stat bonus our Astra mythic will be.

Also whoa hi it's been like, nearly half a decade since I was last here.

[Othin]

Personally, since catching up on my "get everyone to 5*" project in February, I've been shoveling all my feathers into BK and Cecilia. (Aside from upgrading new GHB units, and new demotes next time I get one.) Got BK to +6 and Cecilia to +7 by now, should be able to finish one of them by the end of the month.

2 hours ago, LunaSaint said:

I'm holding out on feather projects myself until I know what unit/stat bonus our Astra mythic will be.

Also whoa hi it's been like, nearly half a decade since I was last here.

Unit is unclear (although speculated to be blue), while stat bonus is almost certainly +Def since it's the only one currently missing.

There's been speculation here. Personally, I was previously guessing either Ashera or Mila, but now that Gotoh has been brought up, I'm leaning towards him.