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On 7/21/2018 at 1:14 PM, Vaximillian said:

I wish I would appreciate Ike.

Here watch this video and see if that changes your mind. 

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1 hour ago, Tybrosion said:

They've already stated that that won't be available until the 26th (per the notes for the 2.8 update), so don't expect them next week either.

To expand on this, the reason is that we're still in the middle of the Terraces, with the last one (Terrace of Fire) scheduled for the 19th.

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47 minutes ago, Icelerate said:

Here watch this video and see if that changes your mind. 

That video only made me yawn, unfortunately. The actual explanation started like five minutes into the twelve-minutes-long video and can be boiled down to “Ike is so different and Tellius is so great. Oh, and Smash, too”.

The video conveniently forgets about Hector who did the sincere, blunt, and outspoken lord much before and much better because he didn’t pretend to be what he was not.

As for Ike’s lack of nobility that’s so often waved around like a banner: it matters to complete nothing. Ike’s still a son to one of the greatest war heroes of the realm and inherits rulership from him.

(oh, and the Jugdrali lords don’t fight dragons either, and Ashera is still a god, which dragons are in other games)

I would’ve loved to see the actual failures he’d had to sustain, and no, pissing off Sanaki doesn’t count because she conveniently was toying with him for her amusement. Greil dying? Entirely out of Ike’s control. Who are these friends and relatives mentioned in the video that Ike has to bear with losing?

Tellius might have a nice story, but Ike is not a bright spot in it. So what’s left for him, gameplay accomplishments? Okay, he’s a good unit. Whoa. Amazing.

So, as a summary, no, this video didn’t manage to open my eyes on Ike. I still don’t find him relatable or likable.

Edited by Vaximillian

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I don't really see the point in trying to convince one another to like or dislike a certain character. Rational or not, we've all made up our minds and I think we're mature enough to decide for ourselves whether we actually like or dislike a character more than we thought we do. I've actually changed my opinion on Tharja slightly, not because of anyone who kept on yelling at me that she's a "good, misunderstood character" but because I reread some of her supports.

What we probably do need to stop doing is saying things like unprovoked "ew, [character]" because for the most part I think we know which characters the rest of us don't like. Not calling out anyone in particular, and I think it's fine to explain why we don't like a character or to be annoyed they're showing up too much, but there's really no reason to say "ew" or "I hate [character]" every time someone brings them up.

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I like Ike because he's a pretty good unit (less so in PoR, mostly because he only comes in 1 map before Titania, and she's bloody Titania vs. a level 1 trainee).

 

Beyond that, though, I always liked how his character is perfectly integrated story wise and gameplay wise.

 

PoR, he's a trainee---great potential, but starts off more than a little below average. Yeah, he's comparable to Boyd, and maybe only a little worse than Oscar because of how many axes the early game throws at you, but the actual 'veterans' like Titania, Shinon, and even Gatrie blow him out of the water. Then his dad dies, and he goes 'oh shit, I need to carry this team.' Not only is he probably fairly strong at this point, 2 of the former main players leave (Gatrie + Shinon), which makes him relatively better. Yeah, we get a bunch of new folks like Mia, Marcia, and whatever, but none of them blow Ike out of the water like Titania & co, meaning he went from below average to above average the moment Greil died.

Skip a couple chapters of character development, and we have Day Breaks. (The maps are pretty annoying to play, especially if you aren't forewarned, but I like them a lot storywise.) This is the chapter where Ike grows his goddamn beard, when the chips are down, the stakes are high, and he finds himself equal to all the shit that's thrown at him and will be thrown at him. The sheer length of the map is meant to challenge the player, gameplay wise, but, story wise, it's a challenge to Ike. This is the hardest fight Ike has faced so far---and, one can argue, that he will ever face---nobody is a match for him individually on the maps, but the constant fighting takes a toll on the team's resources and, for the last map, he saddled by the designated princess of Tellius, Leanee.

(Yeah, technically Elincia's the princess, but it's Leanee who gets kidnapped all the time.)

But, once he makes it through all that, he's finally gotten enough experience under his belt that, even though he's nowhere close to his full potential, he's now very definitely a star player in his own right. His lord promotion turned him into 'trainee with a brilliant future' into 'designated carry.' His bases are no longer shit, his growths had 19 levels to pay off, and his caps skyrocketed to frankly unfair levels considering how low enemy stats are in Tellius. Yes, he gets Ragnell in the future, but Day Breaks is the point where PoR turned from a coming of age story to enjoying the god damn protagonist wiping the floor with everybody.

And god damn does he wipe the floor with everybody. The only reason Titania is still better at this point is because of her horse and axe access---the latter of which gets fixed once Ike grabs Ragnell.

 

RD:

It's not Ike's coming of age story anymore, it's Ike still in the 'wipe the god damn floor with everyone' mode. And god damn, those bases, those growths everywhere except speed (which starts basically capped anyway), and ranged swords actually being good for once. This is especially enjoyable because you get to look at what a crappy trainee looks like in Micaiah (not only does she start meh, she never turns good because her promotions are always like 10 chapters too late).

 

Aside. I have a feeling the story guy really like Micaiah, but the gameplay guys didn't. Where Ike is perfectly integrated gameplay and story wise, Micaiah is a mess. The story plays her up as amazing, but unless she's freakishly blessed, she's basically a glorified staff bot because of how often enemies ORKO her. The story plays Ike up, but he's worth being played up, being one of the best characters in a game filled with some of the best characters in the series.

 

tl;dr:

Ike is basically the definition of a trainee unit done 'right.' Amazing growths, as brief a 'deadweight' stage as possible, perfect availability and doesn't slow down as a unit once he gets going (if we ignore the brief stall in levels & combat ability in Day Breaks---Ike's probably 20/0 for a while at that point, and the last map saddles him with Leanne). RD he's almost Titania tier, and that should say more or less everything.

And, not only is his gameplay enjoyable, the story is perfectly integrated. Game one he's a trainee for the first half, growing and getting experience, and kicking all kinds of major ass in the second half. Game two is basically Game 1, Part 2, Part B.

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Seems like everybody's searching for the most unique opinion to have about Ike...

Well here's MINE. I don't have strong opinions either way. Because if it's one thing I can count on Lords for, it's not leaving a strong impression.

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46 minutes ago, DehNutCase said:

This is the chapter where Ike grows his goddamn beard, when the chips are down, the stakes are high, and he finds himself equal to all the shit that's thrown at him and will be thrown at him. The sheer length of the map is meant to challenge the player, gameplay wise, but, story wise, it's a challenge to Ike.

I feel like you're dramatizing things a little too much, desperation really never fills Day Breaks for me. Yes it is four back to back battles, but I don't believe Ike and co. went into the heart of the forest first and foremost for Oliver's arrest, they wanted that, but it was alongside the need to find Reyson. There is less of an emphasis on dire straits, and more on the oddity of the Great Boggly Woods, and the Herons here. I never get the feeling Oliver had them cornered, outside maybe in the third battle. Oliver was a lone Senator in disobedience not focused on causing an actual rebellion, all he actually wanted was Reyson to be his.

 

46 minutes ago, DehNutCase said:

-the latter of which gets fixed once Ike grabs Ragnell.

-Which Ike gets for less time than Roy the Binding Blade. And Ike is in a game where swordlock hurts a heckuva lot more. PoR Ike is certainly not top/high tier in lords performance in their respective games. Never incompetently weak, he isn't a gamebreaker either for most of it.

 

29 minutes ago, Glennstavos said:

Well here's MINE. I don't have strong opinions either way. Because if it's one thing I can count on Lords for, it's not leaving a strong impression.

A sentiment I share in ways, a lot of lords are fairly mild, and in being mild they are neither particularly offensive, nor endearing.

Ike at times is this, sometimes he feels like Eliwood to me, others like Hector, but generally falls somewhere between the two. Roughhewn like Hector, but without as much of the brutish lout. I've never thought of it in the metaphor before, but it works to a degree.

 

10 hours ago, mcsilas said:

Huh. We get a sneaky little music update in the last Special map- we get Eternal Dawn from Radiant Dawn.

Eternal Dawn? I don't see a composition by that name in the RD soundtrack. Do you mean Eternal Bond? The map theme that for some reason has become Ike's theme?

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1 hour ago, Interdimensional Observer said:

I feel like you're dramatizing things a little too much, desperation really never fills Day Breaks for me. Yes it is four back to back battles, but I don't believe Ike and co. went into the heart of the forest first and foremost for Oliver's arrest, they wanted that, but it was alongside the need to find Reyson. There is less of an emphasis on dire straits, and more on the oddity of the Great Boggly Woods, and the Herons here. I never get the feeling Oliver had them cornered, outside maybe in the third battle. Oliver was a lone Senator in disobedience not focused on causing an actual rebellion, all he actually wanted was Reyson to be his.

If you knew what's coming up, Day Breaks isn't hard. But that's one small problem with gameplay and story integration---some plot points are weaker if you see them coming.

If you didn't, it's a slugfest of rout maps in a game where your main Lord doesn't get his unbreakable Prf until pretty much the endgame. (Fortunately you had Laguz, though, and the first time through lethe and mordecai have more than enough stats to solo carry, meaning you won't be locked out either way.)

Gameplay wise, Oliver wasn't a challenge* in the way BK is a challenge. BK is you either kill him, run away, or he kills you---and it all happens pretty damn quickly. Oliver is a threat in the way that he can just toss bodies at you until you run out of swords---because, for the first time basically ever, you don't get to resupply and buy\forge weapons between maps---this is a slow, grindy type of challenge. 

*Except on manic, where he's a harder fight for Ike than BK.

 

Story wise, yes, Oliver was expected to be a walk in the park. Until it turned out that he wasn't---turns out a Senator can have a pretty big army---and there's a bunch of spanners tossed into the works like Reyson trying to commit sudoku and a princess falling out of the sky.

1 hour ago, Interdimensional Observer said:

-Which Ike gets for less time than Roy the Binding Blade. And Ike is in a game where swordlock hurts a heckuva lot more. PoR Ike is certainly not top/high tier in lords performance in their respective games. Never incompetently weak, he isn't a gamebreaker either for most of it.

From what I've heard (I haven't played BB myself), Roy was deadweight after a certain part in the game because of his ultralate promotion, until he picks up BB to carry him through the endgame. Ike, past the start of the game, never actually has issues because even in Day Breaks his stats are more than enough to keep up---this is including the Leanne map. Ragnell is a bonus he picks up rather than something he needs to be a unit.

The thing about Ike is that, past a certain point (which comes pretty quickly, and usually before his promotion), ranged units never damage him and melees are all ORKOd. 50/55 Atk/Spd growths and 75/40/40 Hp/Def/Res growths is kind of busted in a game where 20 in a stat is endgame level.

Outside of bosses, I usually use Ike like this: He gets boots, he walks forward, he ORKOs all the melees and the ranged dogpile to do maybe 10 damage combined to him, next turn, someone kills a ranged to free up a way forward, Ike walks forward again, maybe chugging a vulnery, rest of the team clean up the ranged. Titania can do this better, earlier, and cheaper, but that's because being a trainee is kind of hard to fix---Ike is as good as it gets for a trainee, and even then he has issues in PoR.

 

Regarding bosses: Oliver on Manic usually doubles Ike, carrying Leanne. Every other difficulty Oliver has problems doubling level 1 Ike carrying Leanne. On non-manic this is for a single Nos hit for... 9 damage. (9 mag + 7 MT damage vs. 19 * .4 = 7 [7.6] res.)

Oliver is actually one of the hardest bosses, since he gets extra stats on Manic (a hilarious amount, actually, he gets 3 Str---basically 3 speed, 10 Mag, 6 speed), and can thus double and ORKO an average Ike who's not using Pure Water and never got a stat booster in his life. The boss before him, Kimaarsi, has 15 Str, 12 MT on spear, and 11 spd---not fast enough to double level 1 Ike, nor OHKO level 1 Ike. [Edit: He does OHKO level 1 Ike, actually, 27 > 24, you need to give Ike the first seraph robe to survive the level 1 OHKO. I always do, so I mis-remembered Ike's hp + def] Level 20 Ike, on average, has 33 hp, 12 def. That is, a slightly unlucky Ike (33.25 & 12.6 are Ike's actual averages) who's never given stat boosters will take three rounds to die to Kimaarsi.

 

Manic Oliver is secretly the hardest boss in PoR, because he's the only one who will ALWAYS double Ike and usually ORKO Ike. (Not really since you just send Titania at the problem, but I'm talking about vs. Ike.)

Edited by DehNutCase

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I could probably start a war with my opinion of Tellius, if the past page is any indication.

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3 minutes ago, eclipse said:

I could probably start a war with my opinion of Tellius, if the past page is any indication.

You have some strong, negative opinions you want to confess? I'm ears.

Edited by Jingle Jangle

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1 minute ago, Jingle Jangle said:

You have some strong, negative opinions you want to confess? I'm ears.

My opinion of Tellius is also an opinion of the fanbase in recent years.  Hence why it would start a war.

IMO the worst thing about Ike is that Greil handed him the leadership, instead of someone more experienced.  In terms of characters, that's a fairly mild flaw.

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3 minutes ago, eclipse said:

My opinion of Tellius is also an opinion of the fanbase in recent years.  Hence why it would start a war.

IMO the worst thing about Ike is that Greil handed him the leadership, instead of someone more experienced.  In terms of characters, that's a fairly mild flaw.

Honestly I think that was the best thing for him.

 

He wasn't ready at the time he was handed the leadership, but it got him ready faster than basically any other method short of Titania mentoring him full-time. (And she couldn't have, because she was the natural commander candidate, meaning she'd have other duties than mentoring Ike.)

 

Edit: Basically the 'toss the lion cub down a cliff' method of teaching. Very Greil.

Edited by DehNutCase

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1 minute ago, DehNutCase said:

Honestly I think that was the best thing for him.

 

He wasn't ready at the time he was handed the leadership, but it got him ready faster than basically any other method short of Titania mentoring him full-time. (And she couldn't have, because she was the natural commander candidate, meaning she'd have other duties than mentoring Ike.)

It throws the whole "commoner" thing out the window.  Ike didn't earn his leadership, just as royalty doesn't earn their rule over their subjects.  IIRC, he was confined to quarters a bit earlier for disobeying orders.  Mixed messages, IMO.

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1 minute ago, eclipse said:

It throws the whole "commoner" thing out the window.  Ike didn't earn his leadership, just as royalty doesn't earn their rule over their subjects.  IIRC, he was confined to quarters a bit earlier for disobeying orders.  Mixed messages, IMO.

Ah.

I never minded that, tbh. The whole point of being in charge is to have the power to make 'unfair' decisions like making sure your son with plenty of potential got as much experience as possible in leadership in as short a time as possible. (That is, yeah, 'Ike' didn't earn it. But 'Greil' did. Just like how it wasn't the prince who earned the right to rule a country, but the king before him.)

 

Besides, Ike was Daein Nobility, being the son of Greil, one of the four riders. Daein was pretty much the most meritocratic country in Tellius, but IRRC Greil was one of the riders before Ashnard took the throne, meaning he was probably a regular blue-blooded noble.

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Debates like make me want to try play the games again, I still have the games but no memory cards

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37 minutes ago, DehNutCase said:

Oliver is actually one of the hardest bosses, since he gets extra stats on Manic (a hilarious amount, actually, he gets 3 Str---basically 3 speed, 10 Mag, 6 speed), and can thus double and ORKO an average Ike who's not using Pure Water and never got a stat booster in his life. The boss before him, Kimaarsi, has 15 Str, 12 MT on spear, and 11 spd---not fast enough to double level 1 Ike, nor OHKO level 1 Ike. [Edit: He does OHKO level 1 Ike, actually, 27 > 24, you need to give Ike the first seraph robe to survive the level 1 OHKO. I always do, so I mis-remembered Ike's hp + def] Level 20 Ike, on average, has 33 hp, 12 def. That is, a slightly unlucky Ike (33.25 & 12.6 are Ike's actual averages) who's never given stat boosters will take three rounds to die to Kimaarsi.

 

Why does Ike have to fight Oliver? Tibarn is an NPC here, Tibarn slurps Oliver's brains like ramen noodles. Sure you miss on Nosferatu, but that is no loss, it sells for a mere 750, and its only user is Rhys, the guy who averages at 20/20 3 Str when Nos weighs 12 Wt, and he has only 21 Spd, 11 Def, and 38 HP, not good enough. EXP? Fine, feed him to Marcia or somebody else who isn't Ike.

And why must Ike fight any non-BK/Ashnard boss? 

 

50 minutes ago, DehNutCase said:

The thing about Ike is that, past a certain point (which comes pretty quickly, and usually before his promotion), ranged units never damage him and melees are all ORKOd. 50/55 Atk/Spd growths and 75/40/40 Hp/Def/Res growths is kind of busted in a game where 20 in a stat is endgame level.

Outside of bosses, I usually use Ike like this: He gets boots, he walks forward, he ORKOs all the melees and the ranged dogpile to do maybe 10 damage combined to him, next turn, someone kills a ranged to free up a way forward, Ike walks forward again, maybe chugging a vulnery, rest of the team clean up the ranged. Titania can do this better, earlier, and cheaper, but that's because being a trainee is kind of hard to fix---Ike is as good as it gets for a trainee, and even then he has issues in PoR.

Problem- so does the Fairy Queen, the Sesame Street Garbage Can Monster, Crackers!, Guy With Axe In Head, Minerva ~3.0, The Girl Who Had to Share A Bow, Broyd. And on promotion, Stellaaaaaaa! and Make a Love. And all of these can also grab a Hand Axe or Javelin to take down those pesky 2 rangers without needing others to clean up, which Ike cannot do.

 

26 minutes ago, eclipse said:

IMO the worst thing about Ike is that Greil handed him the leadership, instead of someone more experienced.  In terms of characters, that's a fairly mild flaw.

Admittedly, there weren't many other choices though. Titania is probably the only person who would've sufficed, Shinon is too acerbic, Soren is too acerbic, Gatrie is hopeless, Oscar isn't experienced enough, nor is Boyd, Rhys is too faint of heart. Should they have gone with Titania? Well I can see that, would have kept Shinon and Gatrie in at least. Having her take the leadership and then groom Ike as her successor, eventually handing things over say at Chapter 18 or something, might have been a better move.

Having Titania as the leader originally was planned, but said version had Greil long dead at beta Sephiran's supposed hand, so there was no succession crisis, since the GMs weren't founded until after Greil was gone.

 

31 minutes ago, DehNutCase said:

Besides, Ike was Daein Nobility, being the son of Greil, one of the four riders. Daein was pretty much the most meritocratic country in Tellius, but IRRC Greil was one of the riders before Ashnard took the throne, meaning he was probably a regular blue-blooded noble.

The official timeline says Gawain suddenly vanished in 626, the same year as the Blood Pact "plague". Ashnard ascended to the throne the next year, 627. 

If Gawain had the same background as Tauroneo, well in the Rolf support he offers a few lines about his family:

Tauroneo: For generations, we made a reputation for ourselves in Daein as a famed warrior family. Both my father and I had the honor of serving the royal family as field generals. We were a proud family…

Tauroneo: I raised him to serve the Daein army, as my father raised me. He tried to live up to my high expectations. He became a decorated knight at a young age and was assigned to the palace guard. However…

Tauroneo: He took to the field as Ashnard’s personal aide. And he came home on a litter, grievously wounded. He escaped death, but he didn’t escape his wounds. He’ll never walk again.

Our family house was built on generations of proud military command. Our ancient name as a warrior family would not allow me to simply abandon my sworn duty. I tried to salvage our honor by training my younger son. He was just a boy, really. I wanted him to become a Daein general.

So working hard might have been part of the Daein system, even if genealogies played another significant role. This is how nobilities sometimes work out in practice, it isn't always enough to have the blood, though you do need that, you also need to put in the effort if you want to rule. The Fujiwaras of Heian Japan didn't get control of the Imperial Court through blood alone, their success in marrying their daughters off to the Emperors was very essential to their control, but they had to use political finesse to get that done in the first place.

 

53 minutes ago, eclipse said:

My opinion of Tellius is also an opinion of the fanbase in recent years.  Hence why it would start a war.

That sharp? Nonetheless, I'm always open to hearing reasoned criticism. I might be a Tellius fan, but I try to empathize criticism to be open-minded. If you don't want to post it, you could PM it.

 

 

But why are we having these debates on the FEH general discussion board? Then again, I recall worse happening here.

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Apparently, Tellius remains one of the most controversial FEs, even now.

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1 minute ago, Sunwoo said:

Apparently, Tellius remains one of the most controversial FEs, even now.

I thought that was Genealogy? Or is it Awakening? Or Fates? There are several contenders. Within Tellius, I'd say, for understandable reasons, RD is more the sea of fan chaos, by virtue of its grand ambitions.

Which isn't? Well I think we can consider SS not to be. Original FEs 1-3 aren't, and probably not 6. Blazing... I'm not sure. Thracia, well it has its mechanical cheapness for both the player and the enemy, but I'm not sure how controversial it is. Shadow Dragon has its defenders despite general criticism, but calling it controversial is difficult due to the defenders not being rabidly vocal. SoV I guess it is not.

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It's just that Tellius is kind of ... "special" when it comes to weird controversies, such as how good its story is, Ike's sexuality, Mary Sueness of lords, and a lot of other little things like that. It even had the worst "rate the unit" run ever.

Edited by Sunwoo

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4 hours ago, Sunwoo said:

I don't really see the point in trying to convince one another to like or dislike a certain character. Rational or not, we've all made up our minds and I think we're mature enough to decide for ourselves whether we actually like or dislike a character more than we thought we do. I've actually changed my opinion on Tharja slightly, not because of anyone who kept on yelling at me that she's a "good, misunderstood character" but because I reread some of her supports.

What we probably do need to stop doing is saying things like unprovoked "ew, [character]" because for the most part I think we know which characters the rest of us don't like. Not calling out anyone in particular, and I think it's fine to explain why we don't like a character or to be annoyed they're showing up too much, but there's really no reason to say "ew" or "I hate [character]" every time someone brings them up.

Don't you do the same thing with Corrin? If anything, Vaximillian's criticism of Ike is a lot more relaxed compared to your criticism of Corrin. 

6 hours ago, Vaximillian said:

That video only made me yawn, unfortunately. The actual explanation started like five minutes into the twelve-minutes-long video and can be boiled down to “Ike is so different and Tellius is so great. Oh, and Smash, too”.

The video conveniently forgets about Hector who did the sincere, blunt, and outspoken lord much before and much better because he didn’t pretend to be what he was not.

As for Ike’s lack of nobility that’s so often waved around like a banner: it matters to complete nothing. Ike’s still a son to one of the greatest war heroes of the realm and inherits rulership from him.

(oh, and the Jugdrali lords don’t fight dragons either, and Ashera is still a god, which dragons are in other games)

I would’ve loved to see the actual failures he’d had to sustain, and no, pissing off Sanaki doesn’t count because she conveniently was toying with him for her amusement. Greil dying? Entirely out of Ike’s control. Who are these friends and relatives mentioned in the video that Ike has to bear with losing?

Tellius might have a nice story, but Ike is not a bright spot in it. So what’s left for him, gameplay accomplishments? Okay, he’s a good unit. Whoa. Amazing.

So, as a summary, no, this video didn’t manage to open my eyes on Ike. I still don’t find him relatable or likable.

The video does try to downplay the effect Smash had on Ike's popularity. There's no way Ike would be a lot more popular than someone like Hector or Roy being a lot more popular than Eliwood, if that were the case. 

He does talk about Hector being similar to Ike in his bluntness and non noble attitude. 

True,  I think Micaiah is the only lord who was put into authority without her heritage being the reason so I find it frustrating when people say Ike's the only lord who wasn't chosen due to his status because it ignores Micaiah and downplays Ike's specialness. Not that i have a problem with Ike inheriting the Greil Mercenaries from his father but let's not try overlooking it completely either.  

Doesn't Seliph fight Lopytr? Just because certain dragons are gods doesn't make Ashera a dragon but this point in the video was pointless to raise as it doesn't say anything of Ike's character. 

Ike failed to save Mist and Rolf which was done by Shinon and Gatrie. He failed to save his father from the Black Knight and right after had to deal with Shinon and Gatrie leaving the company. If it wasn't for Lethe and Mordecai, Ike would have gotten overwhelmed by Daein's army. He also barely makes it out of Port Toha and couldn't do anything about Ranulf getting beat up and later attacked by the Black Knight. While Ike managed to defend the ship from the ravens, he still ended up temporarily getting stranded in hostile territory. 

I could go on. 

I fail to see how Ike gets challenged less by the narrative than lords like Marth and Roy. 

Well Fire Emblem is a game first and foremost and most of the time you're playing, you're using the units, not reading story/character dialogue so Ike being a better unit than many other lords is a reason why people generally like him more. 

I don't like Ike much and have some problems with him myself but he isn't really that bad. 

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47 minutes ago, Interdimensional Observer said:

And why must Ike fight any non-BK/Ashnard boss? 

Ike doesn't have to fight anyone besides Ashnard MK. 1. He can just run away from BK (he can use the escape tiles just like Mist) and let the Royals take care of Ashnard MK. II. (In normal and below he doesn't even have to fight at all, and just let the Royal take care of Ashnard MK 1.)

 

But that's not why I said Ike's story and gameplay are integrated. Storywise, Ike steadily faces increasingly strong challenges while he himself grows increasingly strong. Gameplay wise, the hardest Enemy Strength/Ike Strength ratio happens at Oliver, and everything else is smooth sailing. Story wise, Oliver is where Ike promotes into Lord and starts being the protagonist of a classic shounen anime (or something) rather than the protagonist of a coming of age story.

Storywise I'm assuming the writers think the Enemy Strength/Ike Strength ratio actually keeps increasing---not by much, because Ike grows a damn lot, but increasing nonetheless. But Oliver is still one of the 'tipping points,' and the story acknowledges that with a new outfit.

47 minutes ago, Interdimensional Observer said:

Problem- so does the Fairy Queen, the Sesame Street Garbage Can Monster, Crackers!, Guy With Axe In Head, Minerva ~3.0, The Girl Who Had to Share A Bow, Broyd. And on promotion, Stellaaaaaaa! and Make a Love. And all of these can also grab a Hand Axe or Javelin to take down those pesky 2 rangers without needing others to clean up, which Ike cannot do.

I rate units based on how good they are absolutely (or rather, how good they are vs. enemy units), rather than how good they are relatively (or rather, how good they are vs. other player units). This means I think of Ike as a good unit in a game of good units, for both his games.

Also, Ike's trainee phase is better than any other trainee's because of his perfect availability---usually his trainee phase is finished by the time new trainees show up. So he'd be closer to a 'regular' FE unit that's unfortunately sword locked in terms of performance than a trainee.

 

Titania* is pretty much the only unit who's better or equal to Ike in all respects---availability, mobility, combat, resource requirement. Everyone else suffers in one department or another. Availability is obvious---you can't be good if you don't exist, or if you're a trainee who isn't good yet (Ike also suffers through this, but he suffers through it the earliest), mobility is something Ike simply can't fix, unfortunately, but combat is where he tends to excel, since his stats are kind of obscene, and in terms of resource requirement he's fairly lenient**, his high growths and early availability means that he has a high stat/exp ratio and joins right when the exp/gold ratio is highest (exp to level divided by the amount of gold you spend paying for vulneries, weapons, and healing), the very early game.

*Oscar is also a contender for flat out better than Ike, but his early game is hampered by axe spam. And IRRC his availability is a bit worse than Titania's. I'd still rate him better than Ike, though.

**He starts with an inventory full of swords for whatever reason, and sword drops rain out of the sky. IRRC Mia is the next sword user you get, 7 chapters in.

 

Everyone who joins before chapter 8, where you can start using BEXP, is either Titania, Oscar, or suffers in some way compared to Ike. Everyone who joins after has the problem where, if you saved resources for them---stat boosters, BEXP, weapons not immediately needed, forges not immediately used---you're investing resources during the hardest parts of a game, the early game, for the easier, later parts of the game.

 

Mind, Marcia, Stefan, Kieran, and Jill are probably better as units, depending on how much you value availability, and Astrid's ups might make up for her downs (I'd rate her and Ike around the same, she peaks higher but her trainee phase is also miles worse---she starts a dozen chapters later and is bow locked before promotion. You either save resources early game for her---resources that could've went to Oscar, Titania, Ike, to make the early game easier---or you suffer through a chapter 13 trainee's trainee phase), but everyone else should be comparable to Ike at best.

 

Ignoring, that is, the laguz. I have no idea how to rate them. Their stats are unfair but they have a gauge.

Edited by DehNutCase

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11 minutes ago, Icelerate said:

Don't you do the same thing with Corrin? If anything, Vaximillian's criticism of Ike is a lot more relaxed compared to your criticism of Corrin. 

I don't try to convince anyone to dislike Corrin, and I don't bring up my dislike for Corrin unless it relates to the topic in some way.

You're the one who bumped up a comment from half a month ago to ask a guy to watch a video and see if it changes his mind on Ike.

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I mean I don't think you need to convince anyone to dislike corrin, it does the job itself better than anyone else could 

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7 minutes ago, Sunwoo said:

You're the one who bumped up a comment from half a month ago to ask a guy to watch a video and see if it changes his mind on Ike.

Your point? How does that relate to anything? I'm not trying to convince Vaximillian to like Ike. Ike's my second least favourite lord. 

Edited by Icelerate

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