Fire Emblem Heroes General Discussion and Links

[DLNarshen]

35 minutes ago, Johann said:

I'm not so sure that healers are defining the meta of Aether Raids. Frankly, the easiest way to deal with them is to have any unit get into the high 40's with Res. For this season, that just means slap Distant Def seal on Fjorm, and maybe Summoner C Support her for good measure. All that gives her 50 Res (54 if the opponent doesn't have a Bolt Tower), making it impossible for most healers to finish her off (after getting through all her HP with Pain) unless she's debuffed enough.

They can be dealt with, as anything in this game can, but I would argue it requires more effort to do so than with any other unit type.  No other unit type in the game can initiate with impunity the way healers can.  Every other sweep-like skill/combo has drawbacks, or is limited by enemy type.  With how suicidal the AI is, I'm hard-pressed to think of a more reliable addition to a successful defense squad.  Especially once players get enough lift to the point where defense wins/losses actually matter, I expect we'll be seeing a lot more of them.

Conveniently enough Veronica is there to provide all the buffs and debuffs they need, and everyone got the opportunity to get her for free.

  

[silverserpent]

i finally got stupid Saber after a year and a half of trying. Stupid fucker is the best/worst red I've ever gone after. And I say this be ause it took 500 orbs and 9 5* before he finally showed up. Silvia×2, Luke, Lene, Y!Tiki, Dark Celica, Florina, Elincia, and Laevataen...all of which I already had copies of, Elincia and Y!Tiki being +5 and +7 respectively. And Silvia/Luke showed up together off the bat, then another simultaneous pair was Lene and Y!Tiki. Saber was my 10th 5* out of that ordeal...

[Johann]

1 minute ago, DLNarshen said:

They can be dealt with, as anything in this game can, but I would argue it requires more effort to do so than with any other unit type.  No other unit type in the game can initiate with impunity the way healers can.  Every other sweep-like skill/combo has drawbacks, or is limited by enemy type.  With how suicidal the AI is, I'm hard-pressed to think of a more reliable addition to a successful defense squad.  Especially once players get enough lift to the point where defense wins/losses actually matter, I expect we'll be seeing a lot more of them.

Conveniently enough Veronica is there to provide all the buffs and debuffs they need, and everyone got the opportunity to get her for free.

Oh, I agree that it's a powerful combo, but I don't think they're as threatening as people make them out to be. Veronica appearing on many teams has worked entirely in my favor since I can kill everybody but her, and then she's harmlessly doing 0 damage as I clean up the map. Any team built entirely of the same unit type is a joke if you've prepared at least one strong defense against it. I think the common strategies may shift in surprising ways once people start being able to set 5 or 6 units on defense too.

From an offense standpoint, I'm more concerned by teams that are hyper aggressive and force me to counter early on, since it means I run the risk of killing them all (or potentially losing a unit) before I can reach the pots. 

[Ice Dragon]

Looking at the upgrades for various structures, the Bolt Trap now has me legitimately terrified. It can be upgraded to a maximum of level 5, dealing 50 damage to everything in range.

I'm hoping I'll have hit tier 11 before people have the rocks to actually get that many upgrades so that I can get the fifth unit slot to put in a staffie since my current strategy is to check traps by stepping on the one of each pair that is in the easier to recover from position.

[Xenovia]

Totally off-topic, but whenever I see Selena I immediately think of Naruse Mio from the Testament of Sister New-Devil.

[Lewyn]

17 hours ago, Alkaid said:

.The other part of it may be they also don't have confidence in not continuously using the popular characters and their alts to drive banners. Even if they have a large pool to draw from, I guess they want to spread them out between "safer" options. In theory it makes sense, but in practice they've ended up annoying a good chunk of people.

Indeed, this is the kind of new mode I've been wanting. They get to avoid "fixing" arena of it's BST and whale issues while still giving us an arena that's more like what we actually wanted.  I'd worried that survey had been forgotten or they dismissed that town builder idea, but I'm glad it ended up happening. I know the update didn't touch a lot of the community issues, which hopefully 3.0 addresses a few more of, but I'm pretty delighted with what we got. Now just let us get grails a BIT faster please..

Yeah I think they have been very conservative for the most part in how they are using their characters.  We do get surprises but they seem to love to reuse the same small handful of characters again and again.  It isn't just the amount of alts overall but that is just a few characters that get a ton of them.  

Ah yes this is a bit of the town building idea.  We get to put buildings down and create maps, gives another element of strategy.  Some people have put a lot of thought into spacing their units, traps and buildings.  I'll still play arena for the orb rewards, but so nice to have a PvP mode where one can actually use and build whatever team they want.  I think if the grail cost didn't increase for each copy the amount we get now would be fine, but yeah I think we will get 50-100 per week depending on how well one scores.  That will take long time to +10 a unit, but I think we might get other quests that award grails...hopefully.  Also please add Dorcas and Aversa!!!  +10 Aversa is easily top priority as far as grails go, but she isn't even available yet!  I know people are saying she and Dorcas may be added next month, but is there any confirmation of this?  Why couldn't they add them right away?

Healers are great at initiating but most of them are also the frailest little things out there, if initiated on many of them get destroyed particularly by physical damage.  Veronica is on every aether team but I haven't lost to one yet.  Also yeah if you have a high res unit you can tank that healer and then the enemy AI starts its movement towards you making them easy to pick apart.  I've gotten 7 or so defense wins already and my team is LA Hector, L! Tiki, W! Tharja and Genny.  I've lost a unit 2 times thus far in Aether raids and none of that was due to healers, it was due to dancer shenanigans.  

I did not like Legendary Marth destroy all dragons, the null follow up skill is great though.  If there is an anti healer skill it should be very carefully done so they don't fall to obscurity once again.  

Edited November 14, 2018 by Lewyn

[Johann]

26 minutes ago, Ice Dragon said:

Looking at the upgrades for various structures, the Bolt Trap now has me legitimately terrified. It can be upgraded to a maximum of level 5, dealing 50 damage to everything in range.

I'm hoping I'll have hit tier 11 before people have the rocks to actually get that many upgrades so that I can get the fifth unit slot to put in a staffie since my current strategy is to check traps by stepping on the one of each pair that is in the easier to recover from position.

You'll definitely hit Tier 11 first, and unless they give out a crazy amount of stones suddenly, I wouldn't worry about it. I'd be surprised if people spent all their stones on Bolt Trap over the bonus structures, extra units, etc. Upgrade costs for it are 100 > 300 > probably 500 > probably 1000, so most players won't be able to upgrade it for a long time.

Using the 5th Offense slot for a healer is probably the best choice no matter your strategy since there's unrivaled utility there (such as using Gravity to get to the pots more easily). The other 4 units should already be able to cover whatever actual combat roles are necessary.

[Ice Dragon]

28 minutes ago, Johann said:

Upgrade costs for it are 100 > 300 > probably 500 > probably 1000, so most players won't be able to upgrade it for a long time.

Gamepedia lists 100, 300, 500, and 700. Either way, even with just level 3 (400 rocks), it's hitting for 30 damage.

This thing is still terrifying.

[Johann]

32 minutes ago, Ice Dragon said:

Gamepedia lists 100, 300, 500, and 700. Either way, even with just level 3 (400 rocks), it's hitting for 30 damage.

This thing is still terrifying.

Yeah, I put in the 100 stones for the first upgrade and it's been essential for all of my Defense wins (especially against Aversa). Of course, if I had also put 100 stones into a Bolt Tower instead of that dumb Healing Tower, I'd have way more wins, so I'm never gonna make the mistake of not building the bonus structure again.

[XRay]

1 hour ago, Ice Dragon said:

This thing is still terrifying.

I guess it depends on what you units are using. I love Bolt Traps since I use them to get my nukes into Desperation range. I place my own a little more towards the back to make it a little harder for Players to abuse my Bolt Traps to get into Desperation range.

Edited November 14, 2018 by XRay

[Chrom-ulent]

4 hours ago, silverserpent said:

i finally got stupid Saber after a year and a half of trying. Stupid fucker is the best/worst red I've ever gone after. And I say this be ause it took 500 orbs and 9 5* before he finally showed up. Silvia×2, Luke, Lene, Y!Tiki, Dark Celica, Florina, Elincia, and Laevataen...all of which I already had copies of, Elincia and Y!Tiki being +5 and +7 respectively. And Silvia/Luke showed up together off the bat, then another simultaneous pair was Lene and Y!Tiki. Saber was my 10th 5* out of that ordeal...

And I thought I had it rough, 300+ orbs and only an SM!Eirika to show for it before Saber.

No matter: I'm done with spending in FEH. I finished the game. 100% Orb Hoarder from here on out, and taking it easy when it comes to new content.

In addition to Summer Cordelia +10 as my main's target, I am now hoarding orbs for a better Winter Lissa on the alt, having successfully fixed my -Atk Halloween Henry today.

[Maaka]

1 hour ago, Chrom-ulent said:

And I thought I had it rough, 300+ orbs and only an SM!Eirika to show for it before Saber.

No matter: I'm done with spending in FEH. I finished the game. 100% Orb Hoarder from here on out, and taking it easy when it comes to new content.

In addition to Summer Cordelia +10 as my main's target, I am now hoarding orbs for a better Winter Lissa on the alt, having successfully fixed my -Atk Halloween Henry today.

Ooo congrats!! So many neat units! I especially love your Nanna lol. She has been making my grand conquest battles so much better.

[garrisoncade_3576]

I saw that Reddit Post earlier. 

I see some people selling their FEH accounts on eBay for a high amount of money as well. Some of them passing over $1k. 

FEH is indeed a horny casino. 

[DehNutCase]

7 hours ago, Ice Dragon said:

1. The point is that it negates all effects that prevent you from counterattacking, meaning Dazzling Staff, Windsweep, Watersweep, and Firesweep. Most Firesweep users would simply crumple against opponents that ignore that effect.
2. Nothing kills a staffie on enemy phase.
3. Everyone already knows your definition of "good" is narrow as fuck.

1, Printing a skill that costs a slot to negate dazzle makes the game more 'check' based, which is probably better than the hard-counter situation we have now.

Sweeps are checked by anti-dazzle, anti-dazzle armor/dragons are checked by normal units (since armors and dragons kind of need all their skill-slots to be a real threat), regular armor/dragons check normal units, then finally we finish the circle with sweeps checking regular armors.

 

2, That's honestly a similar problem to 'nothing kills a weaponless dancer on enemy phase.' Staff users gave up a lot to have dazzling staff, to the point where they basically never ORKO.  They can't run Vantage and Wrathful, don't have repo assists---meaning staff teams just come up in a nice line to get destroyed---are few enough that we don't see any really optimized spreads, etc. (Selena type spreads would probably be the most annoying on a staffer---fast enough you can't double them, bulky enough that it takes more than one round to ORKO KO, and a Selena type healer would go ahead and run Vantage over Wrath since she wasn't hitting for more than single digits regardless.)

 

3, My definition of 'good' is narrow because this is a game with honestly broken units, meaning anything not broken can't really be called good.

Reinhardt's worst match-up is the mirror match, and that's just disgusting. (AI ranged horses have additional weaknesses like strong defensive units and Galeforcers, but player ranged horses are basically only afraid of other ranged horses.)

Staves are also broken, of course, but at least their 50/50 matchups include more than just the mirror match. (Dancers and Bow Lucina and Ranged Horses if they aren't caught in the plus shape of Gravity+)

 

A lot of people probably think Zelgius is as good as Reinhardt, but how many of them go "Aw man, this map is hard, I need to resort to Zelgius" rather than "Aw man, this map is hard, I need to resort to Reinhardt"?

Okay, that was probably unfair. 

 

Mind, I do kind of see your point. The problem with Staves is that they're broken in AI hands as well as player hands, whereas Reinhardt is basically only broken in player hands. He's still strong in AI hands, but almost every team archetype can handle him, whereas some team archetypes are just hard countered by staves.

(I guess I just don't sympathize too much because my definition of a good unit always included being mobile and being good outside of combat, which are the traits that punish staves.)

Edited November 15, 2018 by DehNutCase

[Chrom-ulent]

1 hour ago, Maaka said:

Ooo congrats!! So many neat units! I especially love your Nanna lol. She has been making my grand conquest battles so much better.

I'm happy to hear my Nanna has served you well. In addition to Nanna, I've lent out my +10 Micaiah to somebody who wanted to try her out.

Side note: I switched her to Wings of Mercy from Wrathful Staff on B a little while back. Which skill served you better?

57 minutes ago, Smog said:

I saw that Reddit Post earlier. 

I see some people selling their FEH accounts on eBay for a high amount of money as well. Some of them passing over $1k. 

FEH is indeed a horny casino. 

Rest assured, I won't be selling my FEH account any time soon. The quest to save for Summer Cordelia begins now. I'm going to give the Legendary Banner that will likely feature her the middle finger this time, knowing how badly Legendary Marth and Eirika treated me. Not even a Legendary Sigurd will get me to touch one of these putrid banners.

Side note: It bugs me that Legendary Tiki was assigned to Earth season. Earth dragons were the enemies of divine dragons, weren't they?

[JSND Alter Dragon Boner]

3 hours ago, DehNutCase said:

A lot of people probably think Zelgius is as good as Reinhardt, but how many of them go "Aw man, this map is hard, I need to resort to Zelgius" rather than "Aw man, this map is hard, I need to resort to Reinhardt"?

Okay, that was probably unfair. 

 

Mind, I do kind of see your point. The problem with Staves is that they're broken in AI hands as well as player hands, whereas Reinhardt is basically only broken in player hands. He's still strong in AI hands, but almost every team archetype can handle him, whereas some team archetypes are just hard countered by staves.

(I guess I just don't sympathize too much because my definition of a good unit always included being mobile and being good outside of combat, which are the traits that punish staves.)

I mean isnt part of this because Zelgius is less alvailable to build AND pull?

 

I used Hardin a lot and theres def some situations where hes my go to answer to cheese stuff, but granted my first fallback option to hard content is Innes

[Vaximillian]

I think I found the perfect wearer for Azura’s headpiece (not called Azura):

Edited November 15, 2018 by Vaximillian

[dethneer]

I like how all the dragons in this game always look so excited that they have a dragonstone. They're always like "Look what I've got...LOOK AT IT" 

[dethneer]

@Chrom-ulent Oh shit I read that post on Reddit, that was you? Mad respect for being able to recognize that you had an addiction and doing something about it. Although can I friend you? I want to see what it's like to borrow heroes from a $20,000 account lol

[DehNutCase]

52 minutes ago, JSND Alter Dragon Boner said:

I mean isnt part of this because Zelgius is less alvailable to build AND pull?

 

I used Hardin a lot and theres def some situations where hes my go to answer to cheese stuff, but granted my first fallback option to hard content is Innes

Zelgius is near identical to BK, barring Warp Powder. And Warp Powder is just a really, really bad horse.

 

Zelgius having pricey sets that are 'good' isn't an argument for him being better than Reinhardt, considering Rein has both cheap and pricey sets that are good. On a budget Rein's better, with 5* exclusives Rein's still better. (He's one of the best CC users in the game, and he even lacks the typical EP unit counter in healers because he just kills them on player phase.)

 

That said, if people do just flat out assume multiple 5* exclusive skills for armors but not horses, it would explain a lot. (Edit: It wouldn't explain everything, because I'm pretty sure Reinhardt on a budget is better than fully invested Zelgius, but it would explain a lot.)

Edited November 15, 2018 by DehNutCase

[JSND Alter Dragon Boner]

9 minutes ago, DehNutCase said:

Zelgius is near identical to BK, barring Warp Powder. And Warp Powder is just a really, really bad horse.

 

Zelgius having pricey sets that are 'good' isn't an argument for him being better than Reinhardt, considering Rein has both cheap and pricey sets that are good. On a budget Rein's better, with 5* exclusives Rein's still better. (He's one of the best CC users in the game, and he even lacks the typical EP unit counter in healers because he just kills them on player phase.)

 

That said, if people do just flat out assume multiple 5* exclusive skills for armors but not horses, it would explain a lot.

 

In fairness, Horses.... literally didn't have 5* skills that i remember. Besides CC and DC(who used these? like Rein, Ares/Eldigan, MAYBE Eliwood? Mages besides Leo and Rein are squishy and OHKO build isnt quite as hot), were looking at Solo which one can argue isnt much better than LnD. Bond is probs the closest subs they have for Breath

Theres DB4 but DB4 is such a revolutionary concept of adding 4 more damage that is ahead of this time

 

Aether, Sigurd is probably the only real effective user of it

Theres Chill, but discussing Chill skills is almost as hard as justifying Def Ploy Est so meh

 

Its kinda weird discussing Armors vs Horses in power level(supports included) since Armor's Merge scaling actually is pretty absurd, whereas Horse scales rather linearly from merges 

[Hilda]

12 hours ago, Johann said:

I'm not so sure that healers are defining the meta of Aether Raids. Frankly, the easiest way to deal with them is to have any unit get into the high 40's with Res. For this season, that just means slap Distant Def seal on Fjorm, and maybe Summoner C Support her for good measure. All that gives her 50 Res (54 if the opponent doesn't have a Bolt Tower), making it impossible for most healers to finish her off (after getting through all her HP with Pain) unless she's debuffed enough.

My Veronica can hit 64 Atk and thats without a offensiv Slot. But then again this needs Atk/Spd solo and +6 buffs. I will pull out my 60 res berkuts lance double distant def Clair, but if the Team overlaps with Brave Lyn then  Clair falls short as an option. I dont think that putting your defense up one sided will get you much, but if you overlap the magical threat of Cavalry Healers with someone like Brave Lyn using a Firesweep bow and Cancel affinity your options to bait them fall flat. Unless you have a Raventome user that can reach the high end of the spectrum on both def and res and still maintains the killing power without Triangle Adept.

[DehNutCase]

18 minutes ago, JSND Alter Dragon Boner said:

In fairness, Horses.... literally didn't have 5* skills that i remember. Besides CC and DC(who used these? like Rein, Ares/Eldigan, MAYBE Eliwood? Mages besides Leo and Rein are squishy and OHKO build isnt quite as hot), were looking at Solo which one can argue isnt much better than LnD. Bond is probs the closest subs they have for Breath

Theres DB4 but DB4 is such a revolutionary concept of adding 4 more damage that is ahead of this time

 

Aether, Sigurd is probably the only real effective user of it

Theres Chill, but discussing Chill skills is almost as hard as justifying Def Ploy Est so meh

 

Its kinda weird discussing Armors vs Horses in power level(supports included) since Armor's Merge scaling actually is pretty absurd, whereas Horse scales rather linearly from merges 

Mind, my ratings are usually based on 'how good is this unit at fulfilling the clear conditions?*' rather than 'how good is this unit at killing people?'**

*Which is almost always 'nobody dies' and usually 'rout all enemies.'

**Edit: Usually people ignore the often very difficult problem of 'how does this unit get to the thing it's killing?' for some reason. I'm assuming they ignore this problem because otherwise people are saying Zelgius is better at getting to healers than Reinhardt.

 

Typical tier lists tend to answer the second question but I've always focused on the first one---it's the first question that things like reposition and 3 move are great at. If everyone needs to stay alive then being able to help other people run away and being able to run away yourself is kind of amazingly good. To the point that weaponless horses and level 1 dancers are high value inclusions because, sure, they won't kill anything, but they never get in the way, and are usually actively helpful in making sure everyone else doesn't get in the way.

 

Regarding merges, I've always felt like horses get more out of it. Horses are the unit type with the least stats, so they're usually the ones right 'on the edge' of being able to live through a hit, which is what +4 all stats is really good at. And you need to live through a hit to double people---unless you're Horse Lyn with Sacae access. I'm discounting sweeps here because they cost unit-turns. (Reinhardt is actually a bit of an exception in this department, he's min-maxed enough that he fairly reliably survives the first hit even at +0---pretty much no one else is that min-maxed, though.)

That said, I usually don't take merges into account because it doesn't matter most of the time. If you're in a corner case situation where single stat points start mattering just doing something like using Ally Spur instead of Ally Drive tends to be enough.

Edited November 15, 2018 by DehNutCase

[Vaximillian]

…Can someone please explain to me why the slots in tap battle are arranged from bottom to top instead of the obvious and perfectly logical from top to bottom? 

[Maaka]

8 hours ago, Chrom-ulent said:

I'm happy to hear my Nanna has served you well. In addition to Nanna, I've lent out my +10 Micaiah to somebody who wanted to try her out.

Side note: I switched her to Wings of Mercy from Wrathful Staff on B a little while back. Which skill served you better?

I would say wrathful staff is more useful, since my units either take 0 damage or get completely destroyed, but I never update my friend units, so she still has wrathful staff on for me.