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Alright thanks. I can casually go through the backlog of old units and eventually build up a bit of a supply.

As for refines, let me keep this brief.

Nino: Utter nonsense, it's just bonkers. Odin's refine made sense because he was terrible. On a unit like Nino... she's going to be a nightmare to deal with now. Even ATK Wave as the refine was just overkill. Now she can run an Odd Wave skill and essentially always carry a bonus to her tome while doubling as a support unit. Ridiculous.

Tharja: Just as ridiculous as Nino. A reverse Drive but with 2 stats and they're the most important ones? Again, nonsense.

Eliwood: Pretty bonkers, honestly. Death Blow + Swift Sparrow for a whopping +10 to ATK and +4 to SPD when initiating. He can run Darting Blow for +10/10 offense on initiation. Run Death Blow for a titanic +16 ATK or Swift Sparrow for a more moderate inbetween in +14/8. Either way whatever he's attacking is going to hurt. I'm not sure what to make of this guy now. Is +ATK the better nature for him or +SPD? Either way, he's definitely viable now. Rather than competing with his son, now he's more of a Seigbert alternative. Though I do kind of wish they'd done more with his RES.

Niles: Holy Crap this guy's refine... when I think about it it's actually dumb. Ok.. he gets 3 effects and they're all stupid good. He gets a Slaying Effect to start, so 2 turn Iceberg is still a thing... then he gets the Shining Bow effect for +7 true damage but then we're going to throw Flashing Blade on top of it? He's turned his noodle arm into a bullet. Sure he'll be relying on his special damage but with all of the cooldown reduction skills piled on hi he'll be proc'ing specials left and right. Nevermind the equalizer that is the true damage which will just bolster his damage even more. Then we factor in that Flashing Blade built into the weapon frees up his A and Seal Slots making for some pretty terrifying possibilities. 

Amelia: Eh... disappointing. The Slaying Effect stays and the refine assures that she pretty much always has +5 to SPD and to DEF but it's nothing special. DEF is fine but all the most powerful units are cracking away at your RES these days and as an armored unit SPD is utterly useless with all the fighter skills roaming around. Sure her speed opens up more freedom for Special Fighter use in the B slot, but... you have other fast armors like L!Tiki who can use the B skill just as well if not better. Or of course... use B!Ephraim... who is by all accounts a better unit and comes with the skill. All in all it's a loss for her. She remains a poor man's green armor and still deserves to demote.

Oboro: Pretty simple. Armor Effectiveness and Close DEF. She can fight armors and with the right Asset, dragons as well. Nothing too special but pretty nice for enthusiasts. She'll definitely benefit from merges quite a bit.

Hinata: Nothing too special. The base effect caters to him but... Fury 3 refine.... they wanted it to suit his character or... I guess his base kit but... it's dumb to me. He wants to tank things on EP but he's going to take 12 damage after every round of combat. This was fine for Bartre because he just wanted to run up and nuke Armors or run Brash/Desp after one round of combat. With Hinata though it becomes awkward. I don't know. He may be better off just running a DEF refine on his weapon for +8 DEF on EP.

Seth: They did him dirty. TA refine is always horrible. Only unit with any business using that is Lyon. The SPD Tactic which... is... ok I guess? It's a rare skill so that's cool. He can run double tactics and they were trying to make him like Titania pretty much which was a neat idea... it's just... at the cost of the unit. It's a sad day for Seth enthusiasts.

TL;DR: Nino, Tharja and Niles refines are ridiculous. Eliwood's refine is pretty great. Oboro's is decent. Hinata's is meh. Amelia's is underwhelming and Seth's is trash.

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Regular Hector (+HP, -Spd) showed up as my freebie summon from his and Matthew's BHB banner rerun. Maybe I should give Distant Counter to-- Hahahah. No. I still have yet to use my spare Takumi for Close Counter on someone and I still have two other Takumi around, one that I summoned and the freebie one they gave us when they killed Virion.

Anyway, part of me wants to build Tharja because I like her and her new tome is neat, but there's so many reds and I have so many of them either built up or they're fine as they are. Not sure on Oboro. Eventual Warding Stance 4 and Steady Stance 3 as a seal could be pretty awesome on her. Never summoned a +Spd Oboro, but I do have a +Res one that I wanted to build since resistance and speed are her superboons. +Res Oboro with her unique refined spear, Warding Stance 4, and Steady Stance 3 as a seal would have 47/42 defenses when attacked by melee ranged units and 41/36 when attacked by ranged units and she'd also slow special charges as well when attacked assuming Warding Stance 4 ends up having the same effect as Steady Stance 4. Stacking Close Def, giving her a Breath skill, or giving her Distant Counter and a Distant Def as a seal might be more practical, though. So many interesting skills and so many of them are so damn rare.

On the bright side, my +Spd, -Def Nino got promoted to 5* finally.

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26 minutes ago, Lemmy said:

From what I've seen, 5 star characters face 5 star level 35s, while 4 star characters face 4 star level 30, it also defaults to the first unit listed, if you have multiples, but you can swap it once you pick the partner.

It isn't based on the rarity, it's based on how much you'll earn. If the unit will earn 40, they'll face level 40s. If they earn 8, level 35s. 2, level 30s.

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Oh yeah, next month's update jumps up the SI limit from 3 to 4.

Hopefully the rest of you were indecisive with your extra L!Hectors like I was. Now I can inherit both DC and VF3 to 2 armors of my choice. Life is good.

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4 minutes ago, Zeo said:

Oh yeah, next month's update jumps up the SI limit from 3 to 4.

Hopefully the rest of you were indecisive with your extra L!Hectors like I was. Now I can inherit both DC and VF3 to 2 armors of my choice. Life is good.

Wow that’s a nice update.

This would’ve been great in so many previous foddering but better late than never.

Edited by NegativeExponents-

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56 minutes ago, Ice Dragon said:

I haven't tested yet, but my hunch is that once the flaw is nullified, the order of stat gains from merges will treat the stat as if neutral were its natural state.

Tested with my friend's +Spd -Atk Nino. Bases are 16/6/11/4/7, so merges were Hp/Spd, Res/Atk, Def/HP, Spd/Res etc. Deletion of flaw would change +4 to Spd/Atk (as the base Atk would be treated as 7).

And...

5c5bdf1696aaa_4Nino.thumb.jpg.e28d2701078344e5df18990ea8193c52.jpg

...no change. So it remembers the flaw for merges.

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16 minutes ago, Florete said:

It isn't based on the rarity, it's based on how much you'll earn. If the unit will earn 40, they'll face level 40s. If they earn 8, level 35s. 2, level 30s.

that could be a bit annoying, I might be forced to actually use shards to level up ...

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46 minutes ago, Zeo said:

Amelia: Eh... disappointing. The Slaying Effect stays and the refine assures that she pretty much always has +5 to SPD and to DEF but it's nothing special. DEF is fine but all the most powerful units are cracking away at your RES these days and as an armored unit SPD is utterly useless with all the fighter skills roaming around. Sure her speed opens up more freedom for Special Fighter use in the B slot, but... you have other fast armors like L!Tiki who can use the B skill just as well if not better. Or of course... use B!Ephraim... who is by all accounts a better unit and comes with the skill. All in all it's a loss for her. She remains a poor man's green armor and still deserves to demote.

Amelia with the refine outspeeds Tiki by 4 points. Considering meta Tiki more often runs +Atk than +Spd, a +Spd Amelia is almost guaranteed to double every melee armor in the game given the same buffs, meaning she is the better user of Special Fighter.

Furthermore, Grado Poleax is one of only three exclusive weapons held by armors that has the Slaying effect on it, and of those three, Amelia is the only one that can viably run Special Fighter, allowing her to land Aether in every round of combat. I don't know how that's at all insignificant.

"All the powerful units" are not targeting Res. Brave Hector and Effie are still extremely common in the Arena, as is Legendary Lucina during wind season. Legendary Azura is stupidly common, but hits like a wet noodle. For an armor, Res is really only necessary for Aether Raids at the moment, and even then, it's easy to stack during light season due to Eir's Mythic bonus.

 

On the other hand, you're seriously overhyping Niles's new weapon. In particular, the Shining Bow effect only applies to about 40% of characters in the game, and Niles still suffers from having absurdly low Atk and his 34 base Spd is no longer terribly exciting in this day and age.

Durandal is also not that terribly broken either, mostly owing to Eliwood's low offensive bases. It more or less allows him to compete on even terms with Siegbert. It's certainly something to write home about, but it's nothing particularly groundbreaking.

Seth may have drawn the short stick this time around, but Ruby Sword is really one of the weapons he's best suited with due to his very balanced stats.

Edited by Ice Dragon

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So gen 3 units get you more reward by using heroic ordeals or is there something I'm not understanding?

Why this choice of design?

(edit: ok I just realised it comes with quite a difference in difficulty)

Edited by Vince777

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7 minutes ago, Ice Dragon said:

On the other hand, you're seriously overhyping Niles's new weapon. In particular, the Shining Bow effect only applies to about 40% of characters in the game, and Niles still suffers from having absurdly low Atk and his 34 base Spd is no longer terribly exciting in this day and age.

I think the reason for the overhype is that, Light Brand effect aside, Niles’s new bow really is a good weapon... just not on Niles. I’m sure there’s other Bow users who could make great use of it but Niles isn’t getting much done with it and would’ve truly preferred just about anything else.

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Quote

Nino: Utter nonsense, it's just bonkers. Odin's refine made sense because he was terrible. On a unit like Nino... she's going to be a nightmare to deal with now. Even ATK Wave as the refine was just overkill. Now she can run an Odd Wave skill and essentially always carry a bonus to her tome while doubling as a support unit. Ridiculous.

@ZeoConsidering stuff like Surtr and high bulk Armorers its not nonsense. And Considering Aversas night in AR its definitly not nonsense. Bladetomes have started to die or died allready outside of PVE. And for Arena it doesnt matter, because you need to get kills with the bonus unit there sooo.

Quote

Tharja: Just as ridiculous as Nino. A reverse Drive but with 2 stats and they're the most important ones? Again, nonsense.

Refer to above same reason as nino

Quote

Eliwood: Pretty bonkers, honestly. Death Blow + Swift Sparrow for a whopping +10 to ATK and +4 to SPD when initiating. He can run Darting Blow for +10/10 offense on initiation. Run Death Blow for a titanic +16 ATK or Swift Sparrow for a more moderate inbetween in +14/8. Either way whatever he's attacking is going to hurt. I'm not sure what to make of this guy now. Is +ATK the better nature for him or +SPD? Either way, he's definitely viable now. Rather than competing with his son, now he's more of a Seigbert alternative. Though I do kind of wish they'd done more with his RES.

Well his refine pretty much turns him into a playerphase unit and with his stat spread it gives him a nice niche due to his Res (tackling dragons if needed, but thats where actually Exalted chrom gets in). So the refine is very nice in my eyes and brings him up on par with his son.

Quote

Niles: Holy Crap this guy's refine... when I think about it it's actually dumb. Ok.. he gets 3 effects and they're all stupid good. He gets a Slaying Effect to start, so 2 turn Iceberg is still a thing... then he gets the Shining Bow effect for +7 true damage but then we're going to throw Flashing Blade on top of it? He's turned his noodle arm into a bullet. Sure he'll be relying on his special damage but with all of the cooldown reduction skills piled on hi he'll be proc'ing specials left and right. Nevermind the equalizer that is the true damage which will just bolster his damage even more. Then we factor in that Flashing Blade built into the weapon frees up his A and Seal Slots making for some pretty terrifying possibilities. 

I dont think this refine is enough, sure it helps him, but he will still die to Armorers and he will still die to Dragons unless you fodder an Eir to him, which in return means giving up Desperation. He is just much better at what he was doing before: killing mages. nothing changed. Infact they should have given him a ways to tackle something else then Mages. He is terribly lost against high Def physical units that can counter attack, seriously 54 physical bulk is not enough when most units run like 60 atk or so. And you cant even run a AoE Special spiral built on him because his attack is like... underground garbage.

Quote

Amelia: Eh... disappointing. The Slaying Effect stays and the refine assures that she pretty much always has +5 to SPD and to DEF but it's nothing special. DEF is fine but all the most powerful units are cracking away at your RES these days and as an armored unit SPD is utterly useless with all the fighter skills roaming around. Sure her speed opens up more freedom for Special Fighter use in the B slot, but... you have other fast armors like L!Tiki who can use the B skill just as well if not better. Or of course... use B!Ephraim... who is by all accounts a better unit and comes with the skill. All in all it's a loss for her. She remains a poor man's green armor and still deserves to demote.

This one is actually fantastic. She can reach 49 SPD with this and her Windsweep built got that much better + She can run Special Spiral now even better, which gives her a garantied Aether per combat assuming she doubles, which is very likely with this buff.

Quote

Seth: They did him dirty. TA refine is always horrible. Only unit with any business using that is Lyon. The SPD Tactic which... is... ok I guess? It's a rare skill so that's cool. He can run double tactics and they were trying to make him like Titania pretty much which was a neat idea... it's just... at the cost of the unit. It's a sad day for Seth enthusiasts.

A TA refine is never bad, I really dont know where peopel get this Idea from. TA is one of the most bonker skills. You have now a Surtr/Green counter and a buffbot rallied all into one for a mixed Team. His refine is fantastic and he isnt that speedy that he will double and kill Green units in Arena in one shot

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8 minutes ago, NegativeExponents- said:

I think the reason for the overhype is that, Light Brand effect aside, Niles’s new bow really is a good weapon... just not on Niles. I’m sure there’s other Bow users who could make great use of it but Niles isn’t getting much done with it and would’ve truly preferred just about anything else.

"Just about anything else" would suck on Niles because Niles kind of sucks to begin with. Niles's problem is that he is 10 points of Atk behind what is now considered par (well, what has always been considered par) and his physical bulk is horrible, meaning he needs to have Desperation to deal with Distant Counter.

Niles's Bow is a good weapon, it's just undertuned given the context that only he can use it.

Edited by Ice Dragon

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1 minute ago, Ice Dragon said:

"Just about anything else" would suck on Niles because Niles kind of sucks to begin with. Niles's problem is that he is 10 points of Atk behind what is now considered par and his physical bulk is horrible, meaning he needs to have Desperation to deal with Distant Counter.

Niles's Bow is a good weapon, it's just undertuned given the context that only he can use it.

Which is exactly why he needed a way to overcome that attack disadvantage that his weapon just isn’t able to give and/or a way to avoid Distant Counter which his weapon didn’t provide. And there’s an abundant amount of existing skills to help with that, which is why I said “just about anything else”, but they weren’t taken advantage of. Therefore his weapon didn’t deliver.

Desperation isn’t helping him kill Distant Counter units anyway. Unless he kills them in the first special proc he’s just about dead. Flashing Blade is nice but without also providing a way to boost his spd he ain’t gonna see much use. A better skill would’ve have been a unique warding breath effect or something Resistance equivalent of Heavy/Flashing blade which he could reliably activate.

His weapon isn’t just undertuned, it’s flat out misplaced for Niles in the first place aside from providing Flashing Blade.

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2 minutes ago, NegativeExponents- said:

His weapon isn’t just undertuned, it’s flat out misplaced for Niles in the first place aside from providing Flashing Blade.

No, it's really just undertuned.

Everything on the weapon is there to cover for his most glaring weakness, which is his low Atk. The Slaying effect and Flashing Blade are there to help him spam Iceberg + Desperation. Flashing Blade is there because his Spd stat is passable for use. The Shining Bow effect is there to pad some more damage in.

Personally, I'd have swapped out the Shining Bow effect for Wo Dao, which behaves similarly, but is far more reliable. And then I'd just flat out upgrade Flashing Blade to Bold Fighter. And maybe that's still a bit undertuned.

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1 minute ago, Ice Dragon said:

No, it's really just undertuned.

Everything on the weapon is there to cover for his most glaring weakness, which is his low Atk. The Slaying effect and Flashing Blade are there to help him spam Iceberg + Desperation. Flashing Blade is there because his Spd stat is passable for use. The Shining Bow effect is there to pad some more damage in.

Personally, I'd have swapped out the Shining Bow effect for Wo Dao, which behaves similarly, but is far more reliable. And then I'd just flat out upgrade Flashing Blade to Bold Fighter. And maybe that's still a bit undertuned.

Oh I think I know what you mean now in which case yes. I completely agree with you.

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4 minutes ago, Ice Dragon said:

Personally, I'd have swapped out the Shining Bow effect for Wo Dao, which behaves similarly, but is far more reliable. And then I'd just flat out upgrade Flashing Blade to Bold Fighter. And maybe that's still a bit undertuned.

Given his spread if you're going to go a fighter skill Special Fighter is better. Lets him chip very safely with Sturdy Impact if someone loved using Niles for some reason. There are better ways to do a similar role---most notably just killing the guy with -blade---but it at least gives him a niche as a chipper.

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13 minutes ago, DehNutCase said:

Given his spread if you're going to go a fighter skill Special Fighter is better. Lets him chip very safely with Sturdy Impact if someone loved using Niles for some reason. There are better ways to do a similar role---most notably just killing the guy with -blade---but it at least gives him a niche as a chipper.

Just give him both to have the best of both worlds :P:

Actually, the beauty of Special Fighter is that you can potentially activate Iceberg twice in one round assuming the enemy counter attacks. Won’t be much useful on physical enemies (not without Sturdy impact like you said anyway) but if it came with Eir’s b skill either in the weapon or already on Niles it helps with dragons.

Edited by NegativeExponents-

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I am happy that Brazilian Portuguese is now one of the selectable languages... But I will keep playing in English, because I am already used to it and I keep practicing english at the same time.

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2 hours ago, Hilda said:

Bladetomes have started to die or died allready outside of PVE.

Blade tomes are still good in Aether Raids. I run NS!F!Corrin and Laevatein on seperate teams and they perform quite well. NS!F!Corrin is a traditional Blade mage that nukes things to high heavens. Laevatein with VS!Azura support can solo defense teams with Distant Counter-Vantage if they are not running Ophelia or if Laevatein hits Ophelia first.

2 hours ago, Vince777 said:

So gen 3 units get you more reward by using heroic ordeals or is there something I'm not understanding?

Why this choice of design?

Gen III units do not exist (at least not yet) and the amount of Dragonflowers is determined by the year the unit is released in, not their stat generation. Ayra, TOD!Henry, and TOD!Jakob are Gen II, but they are year 1 units, so they give 2 Dragonflowers each.

Edited by XRay

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Woops, Galeforce.

Edited by XRay

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1 hour ago, Diovani Bressan said:

I am happy that Brazilian Portuguese is now one of the selectable languages... But I will keep playing in English, because I am already used to it and I keep practicing english at the same time.

Me too

I kinda got used to it and I would probably get lost on some stuff if I changed it now

Edited by Rinco

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8 minutes ago, Rinco said:

I kinda got used to it and I would probably get lost on some stuff if I changed it now

Oh yes! The Assist Skills names were a mess for me! If I decide to play it in portuguese, I will need to learn  "Reposition", "Draw Back" and "Pivot" names, because different from the A-B-C skills that have a icon, Assists don't have it.

But it's nice to have this option, especially for new brazilian players (and maybe portuguese players) who have difficulties with the English language.

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@Zeo I had a lot to say originally (a lot of which was said better by others), but overall, it's worth considering that each of the units who got refines are 3* and 4* units who haven't been all that amazing for a while. Nino and Tharja of course are some of the best units, but they also have to compete with so many other units who are even better. Plus, not everyone can access the strongest units. Brave Ephraim, for instance, has been available for a far shorter period of time compared to Amelia.

Also, I personally think Tharja got the best refine out of everyone. I mean, she's already fast, and this makes her faster just by existing. She's not that bulky, but the refine lets her take hits slightly better. She's also liable to get large statboosts nowadays thanks to Legendary Azura and Tactics becoming more available as time went on. AND Anathema benefits allies as well. She'd have been just fine getting a Bladetome with no Special Cooldown Inhibitor, but instead she got a speed AND defensive AND supportive boost.

Man, they may as well give Olwen's Thunderhead a refine now, because it's no longer all that special...

Edited by Xenomata

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