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Artist/Character Designer for FE Switch


nyainou
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I'll put in another vote for Kozaki. I really love most of his character designs, and his art style is really appealing to me. It's a nice mix of anime aesthetic with some often-exaggerated elements like big eyes toned down a bit. I find it well-balanced and just really nice and clean. His range of designs is a lot of fun, and I think the only thing that sticks out that I haven't cared for is the armor designs on the great knights for Awakening. (and then he switched to something a lot better for Fates cavs) I don't see the issue with looking "modern anime."  Same goes for the more fanservice-y designs. I can enjoy both more practical designs and other fun designs, and I enjoy having a mix in a game like this.

Hidari's work is nice and has a cool, somewhat-painted look to his art. I like the stylistic quality of the work, but the designs often leave something to be desired. The monochrome color theme so many of them have going on just really makes some designs just blend together. Someone like Alm's even a bit hard to look at with how he's just.. blue on blue on blue. So many of the Echoes characters look like they got dipped in a vat of colored paint for the base of their design. That said, some characters like Celica looked gorgeous, even if she's also revolving around a color theme of white and red. His art was an interesting tangent from the 3DS games, but I'd prefer to go back to Kozaki's work for the "main" games.

I assume Kozaki will make a return regardless, since he was a key part in the success of Awakening and Fates, so pushing FE onto a new platform I'd think they'll want him again. Like was said in the OP post, his art style is basically the recognized face of FE now anyway, so it'd make sense. I don't think they'll cater to older tastes over the safer option.

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17 minutes ago, Alkaid said:

I'll put in another vote for Kozaki. I really love most of his character designs, and his art style is really appealing to me. It's a nice mix of anime aesthetic with some often-exaggerated elements like big eyes toned down a bit. I find it well-balanced and just really nice and clean. His range of designs is a lot of fun, and I think the only thing that sticks out that I haven't cared for is the armor designs on the great knights for Awakening. (and then he switched to something a lot better for Fates cavs) I don't see the issue with looking "modern anime."  Same goes for the more fanservice-y designs. I can enjoy both more practical designs and other fun designs, and I enjoy having a mix in a game like this.

Hidari's work is nice and has a cool, somewhat-painted look to his art. I like the stylistic quality of the work, but the designs often leave something to be desired. The monochrome color theme so many of them have going on just really makes some designs just blend together. Someone like Alm's even a bit hard to look at with how he's just.. blue on blue on blue. So many of the Echoes characters look like they got dipped in a vat of colored paint for the base of their design. That said, some characters like Celica looked gorgeous, even if she's also revolving around a color theme of white and red. His art was an interesting tangent from the 3DS games, but I'd prefer to go back to Kozaki's work for the "main" games.

I assume Kozaki will make a return regardless, since he was a key part in the success of Awakening and Fates, so pushing FE onto a new platform I'd think they'll want him again. Like was said in the OP post, his art style is basically the recognized face of FE now anyway, so it'd make sense. I don't think they'll cater to older tastes over the safer option.

As far as i remember the person who draws the characters doesnt draw the armors...

Also i am pretty sure the monochromatic pallet of echoes was to give a vintage look because the game was a remake...

The only reason i dont want kozaki is by a fear that drawing 80 characters so far might have dry him ... otherwise i am good if he remains

Edited by Pegasus Knight
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38 minutes ago, Pegasus Knight said:

As far as i remember the person who draws the characters doesnt draw the armors...

Also i am pretty sure the monochromatic pallet of echoes was to give a vintage look because the game was a remake...

I wouldn't know, but if he didn't make those GK armors that's just another + to him for me then. Some of the Awakening armor was the most notable complaint I had with his designs.

Look at Kliff or Gray compared to the old Gaiden versions. Same with Boey and some others between Gaiden and Echoes. Some got improved and reworked designs with the new art, so it's not like he stuck to emulating the vintage designs faithfully for everything. He could have stood to spruce up Alm and some others more as well. Regardless, I still don't find what he did with the more color-coded ones that appealing.

(Removed mentioning Leon being changed since I was thinking of a different one for some reason)

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That’s completely fine if you don’t see it from my perspective, I respect that. But I would like to see some examples of work in the industry you know that makes Kozaki another generic anime artist.

I’m not sure what you mean by Studio Ghibli being ‘not conventionally pretty’, the only main protagonists that remotely fit that description are Porco Rosso and... Ponyo..? As for One Piece, I personally like it, but I know a lot of people that don’t like the style due to the stick thin limbs, exaggerated features (hey look most of the chicks have giant knockers too!) etc.

I really don’t understand the whole breast argument because that seems to be the main point being raised against Kozaki, as someone pointed earlier on in the thread, the art director is not Kozaki himself, he is simply drawing and reiterating the ideas of someone else. Secondly, there are women with giant breasts and as big as their heads in our world and thirdly, I really wouldn’t exaggerate the number of female characters having giant breasts being half in the playable cast, there’s only Camilla, Charlotte, Kagero and Orochi that has large breasts out of a whopping roster of 35 playable female units in just Fates alone. Awakening had none and had a smaller cast, so I really don’t see how Kozaki is at fault for this single argument.

While I’m addressing breasts, I really don’t think a female characters having large breasts should immediately be invalidated as a bad character/design. While yes, sometimes you could have moments of ‘Oh crap, her eyes are up there.’, if you immediately think of ‘boob = bad character/sexual’ and are the only attributes the forementioned characters have, that’s just plain wrong and unjust. They have a wide spectrum of personalities and depth and shouldn’t just be disregarded as bad  designs just because of their massive breasts and sometimes revealing outfits.

I personally find Kozaki’s characters to be extremely detailed rather than overly designed. Everywhere you look in his designs and artwork, there are small details that he weaves in and make the overall product intriguing, as there’s always tiny details that you’re also bound to miss. He could be lazy and just half ass Felicia and Flora’s maid or Jakob’s butler attire into the typical maid/butler attire to you see everywhere, and it may seem so at first, but if you zoom in to the outfits, you can see the careful details he crafts in to make the attires special and unique enough for them to even validate them as a class in the series.

While Hidari’s art is nice and the warm pastel colors are soothing to look at, I think they should remain as the main artist for remakes. The artist makes elements from modern art styles with old school coloring styles that is very distinct and gives off a nostalgic vibe, which is perfectly suited for a remake. A major gripe I have with Echoes though, are the monochromatic, dull characters. Not sure if Hidari is at fault at this but for example, Lukas, Python, Forsyth, Valbar and Leon. These characters’ color pallets are just one plain color, which are extremely dull to look at, and the saturated style Hidari chooses to color in doesn’t help at all. Even the Power Rangers have more colors even though they are associated with only one color.

Edited by thanny
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1 hour ago, thanny said:

That’s completely fine if you don’t see it from my perspective, I respect that. But I would like to see some examples of work in the industry you know that makes Kozaki another generic anime artist.

Unless it's Hiro Mashima, it's hard to point to a specific style somebody's aping, since while there are a lot of prevalent art trends in anime/manga, everyone has their own style.

But it you want a "general" rundown of styles that I see as very reminiscent of Kozaki's style, pretty much any modern medieval fantasy series. There are designs from Sword Art that look like something Kozaki would draw(With less detail obviously, since they're in motion). And I don't think I have to point out how bad it is to be compared to SAO.

As for works in the industry? I will give you that Kozaki's artwork is MUCH more proportional than the example I'm about to use, but the dumb anime hair and the crazy outfits remind me more of Disgaea than Fire Emblems of the past. And Disgaea's whole soul is being as over the top and ridiculous as possible.

1 hour ago, thanny said:

I really don’t understand the whole breast argument because that seems to be the main point being raised against Kozaki, as someone pointed earlier on in the thread, the art director is not Kozaki himself, he is simply drawing and reiterating the ideas of someone else. Secondly, there are women with giant breasts and as big as their heads in our world and thirdly, I really wouldn’t exaggerate the number of female characters having giant breasts being half in the playable cast, there’s only Camilla, Charlotte, Kagero and Orochi that has large breasts. Awakening had hardly any so I really don’t see how Kozaki is at fault for this single argument. While I’m addressing breasts, I really don’t think a female characters having large breasts should immediately be invalidated as a bad character/design. While yes, sometimes you could have moments of ‘Oh crap, her eyes are up there.’, if you immediately think of ‘boob = bad character/sexual’ and are the only attributes the forementioned characters have, that’s just plain wrong and unjust. They have a wide spectrum of personalities and depth and shouldn’t just be disregarded as bad designs just because of their massive breasts and sometimes revealing outfits.

The art director isn't the one saying "Give her big tits". The art director is the one saying "This is how Dark Mages should look, and this is how blah blah blah should look." If you're at all familiar with Kozaki's other works, big breasts are a him thing.

For breasts to actually be about the size of a human head, they'd have to roughly be a G cup. That is absolutely massive. For 4 women in the army to have breasts like that absolutely isn't normal. Even in America, where obesity is rampant and inflates the average breast size, America still averages out at DD cup, a full 3 cups smaller than a G cup. In a world where there basically are no obese people, there being FOUR G cups(Even lowballing it, I'd say none of those women are smaller than a DDD cup) is about the equivalent of there being 4 men in the party who are 7 feet tall.

And I never said having huge breasts was "bad design". You're projecting a bunch of things I never said. I said it's a common ANIME design, and that it's hard to argue that Kozaki's designs are "more proportional" than previous FEs when there are so many breasts THAT big on the battlefield. It's much harder to think of a major anime series that DOESN'T have a cast chock-full of characters with comically huge boobs than it is to think of a series that doesn't. Basically like, 75% of anything aimed at kids older than 10 years old is guilty of this.

This was my counter-point to "Kozaki's designs are more anatomical/proportional and less anime than designs of the past".

1 hour ago, thanny said:

I personally find Kozaki’s characters to be extremely detailed rather than overly designed. Everywhere you look in his designs and artwork, there are small details that he weaves in and make the overall product intriguing, as there’s always tiny details that you’re also bound to miss. He could be lazy and just half ass Felicia and Flora’s maid or Jakob’s butler attire into the typical maid/butler attire to you see everywhere, and it may seem so at first, but if you zoom in to the outfits, you can see the careful details he crafts in to make the attires special and unique enough for them to even validate them as a class in the series.

Okay. Jakob and Felicia don't wear the same thing. But why do Flora and Felicia(Who actually do share the same outfit outside of the stuff on their shoes, so I don't know what you're getting at) have four massive, loose ribbons flying outwards from their dress? Why does Camilla have an unfastened belt flapping between her boobs? Why can Kozaki, in all of his "detail oriented" glory, not design a single armor knight that makes sense? Why does Saizo, a super secret ninja assassin man, wear one of the EASIEST colors to see in the dark?

It's because for as detail oriented as Kozaki is, Kozaki's designs are inherently insane and unrealistic. He wouldn't have been picked as the artist for No More Heroes they weren't. He saw IRL that ninjas had small, sharp spines on the edges of some of their armguards, so he made them MASSIVE blades that were bigger than the ninja's forearm. He saw that knights wore a fair amount of plate metal. So he made knights walking sheets of plate metal.

And say what you will about past FEs tendency to reuse outfits for characters, at least they used different color schemes. Flora and Felicia just have different heads.

Look, if you like Kozaki, fine. But his designs are a far, far throw from how the designs of the past were. There are a lot of us, who weren't introduced to the franchise at Awakening/Fates, who like the simpler, more down-to-earth designs.

I liked him when he did art for No More Heroes, a game that's a deconstruction of video games and has a boss fight where a deliveryman turns into a murderous super hero that shoots bullets out of his nipples, and a game where you fight an eccentric millionaire in a gold plated vault and you platform on mountains of money. I did not like him when he started doing the art for this (previously)very understated and deliberate strategy RPG franchise.

Edited by Slumber
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56 minutes ago, Slumber said:

But it you want a "general" rundown of styles that I see as very reminiscent of Kozaki's style, pretty much any modern medieval fantasy series. There are designs from Sword Art that look like something Kozaki would draw(With less detail obviously, since they're in motion). And I don't think I have to point out how bad it is to be compared to SAO.

Are you talking about his art style or his designs? If it's the former I want to see them (honestly), if it's the later the same can be sais about older FE character designs.

1 hour ago, Slumber said:

As for works in the industry? I will give you that Kozaki's artwork is MUCH more proportional than the example I'm about to use, but the dumb anime hair and the crazy outfits remind me more of Disgaea than Fire Emblems of the past. And Disgaea's whole soul is being as over the top and ridiculous as possible.

In Fates, sure, there is a minority of characters clearly over the top, but most of them are "normal", and in Awakening there are even less characters with anime hair. As for the outfits, it has already been said that he doesn't design most of them. In most cases, he uses a slightly modified class design. What I mean is, he might be guilty of doing Camilla's outfit, but not of doing Kellam's armor or Sully not wearing pants, because that's part of their class design.

1 hour ago, Slumber said:

The art director isn't the one saying "Give her big tits". The art director is the one saying "This is how Dark Mages should look, and this is how blah blah blah should look." If you're at all familiar with Kozaki's other works, big breasts are a him thing.

As I said, he is the character designer, so more like "Camilla should look like...", I'm not saying that they told him to make her with huge boobs, but they probably descrived her as a seductress or something like that.

Big Breast being a him thing though? Are you comparing them to real life breasts or anime ones, because if you don't pay attention to NMH there aren't that many, Fates has 4, but Awakening doesn't have and neither does heroes, Pokemon GO, Under the Dog, Speed Grapher or Lucky Chloe and Bubuki Buranki had one. He also participed in an anime about samurais I think, and some mangas too, which I haven't read because they aren't translated, but when I searched them a while ago they didn't have big breasted women, so much for a "him thing". Of course, if you are comparing them to real life breasts, the number grous up, but i'd say there are still moe characters with normal ones.

1 hour ago, Slumber said:

Okay. Jakob and Felicia don't wear the same thing. But why do Flora and Felicia(Who actually do share the same outfit outside of the stuff on their shoes, so I don't know what you're getting at) have four massive, loose ribbons flying outwards from their dress? Why does Camilla have an unfastened belt flapping between her boobs? Why can Kozaki, in all of his "detail oriented" glory, not design a single armor knight that makes sense? Why does Saizo, a super secret ninja assassin man, wear one of the EASIEST colors to see in the dark?

It's because for as detail oriented as Kozaki is, Kozaki's designs are inherently insane and unrealistic. He wouldn't have been picked as the artist for No More Heroes they weren't. He saw IRL that ninjas had small, sharp spines on the edges of some of their armguards, so he made them MASSIVE blades that were bigger than the ninja's forearm. He saw that knights wore a fair amount of plate metal. So he made knights walking sheets of plate metal.

And say what you will about past FEs tendency to reuse outfits for characters, at least they used different color schemes. Flora and Felicia just have different heads.

As I said he isn't the character designer, but let's see, maids have ribbons because their purpose is being esthetically pleasing, not combat units. Male have a belt too, but I'm not going to defend a stupid decision. Again, he doesn't design the clases, and they use the same model for everyone in the same class, and Benny makes sense. He wears red because he is the Kain of the game.

As I said before don't judge his work seeing only seeing NMH, he has more "grounded" works too and then come cat donuts.

He used different colors though, Inigo/Gregor/Severa,Sumia/Cordelia/Cynthia, Selena/Laslow...

Everyone likes defferent tastes, and it's perfectly fine to not like him, but I felt there were a lot of thing that could be corrected. 

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56 minutes ago, Sbuscoz said:

Are you talking about his art style or his designs? If it's the former I want to see them (honestly), if it's the later the same can be sais about older FE character designs.

His design aesthetic, so more so the latter. I'd like to see anything from old FEs that looks like they're out of SAO, its knockoffs, or really any modern medieval-fantasy series. The closest I'd say is probably Ike, and that's simply because of his sole shoulder pauldron.

56 minutes ago, Sbuscoz said:

In Fates, sure, there is a minority of characters clearly over the top, but most of them are "normal", and in Awakening there are even less characters with anime hair. As for the outfits, it has already been said that he doesn't design most of them. In most cases, he uses a slightly modified class design. What I mean is, he might be guilty of doing Camilla's outfit, but not of doing Kellam's armor or Sully not wearing pants, because that's part of their class design.

I'd say a fair majority are over the top and over designed. There ARE less characters with anime hair in Awakening, but you still have examples like Maribelle's stereotypical hair drills, Lissa's feathered pigtails and Flavia's feathered ponytail, Vaike's Jersey Shore blowout. These are hairstyles that are still a stark contrast to previous entries in the series. Compare the character designs that Kozaki did to the character designs Hidari did. You do see a massive difference, and why the older crowd generally liked Hidari's design sensibilities compared to Kozaki's, right?

And design/outfit-wise, there's still Aversa, who might be more egregious than anything in Fates.

Yes, it's ultimately the class designer who said "Cavaliers need to wear toilets, Armor Knights must be unable to realistically move, Fighters must wear hubcaps, Berserkers must wear bone underwear and Dark Mages must wear nothing", and whoever the class designer for the Kozaki games is should be forced to work the front desk at IS' offices, but plenty of artists have diverged from the general class designs for the sake of better/more standout character designs. Galzus' fur coat over the standard Hero designs, Raven and Linus' trenchcoat designs over the generic Mercenaries, Geese's captain's longcoat over the standard Pirate/Berserker design, Soren not having a similar design aesthetic as Ilyana and Tormod, etc. Kozaki has more freedom than you're giving him credit for.

56 minutes ago, Sbuscoz said:

As I said, he is the character designer, so more like "Camilla should look like...", I'm not saying that they told him to make her with huge boobs, but they probably descrived her as a seductress or something like that.

Big Breast being a him thing though? Are you comparing them to real life breasts or anime ones, because if you don't pay attention to NMH there aren't that many, Fates has 4, but Awakening doesn't have and neither does heroes, Pokemon GO, Under the Dog, Speed Grapher or Lucky Chloe and Bubuki Buranki had one. He also participed in an anime about samurais I think, and some mangas too, which I haven't read because they aren't translated, but when I searched them a while ago they didn't have big breasted women, so much for a "him thing". Of course, if you are comparing them to real life breasts, the number grous up, but i'd say there are still moe characters with normal ones.

I may have been too quick to jump to NMH, since that was my first introduction to him, but you'd agree that his FE work is much closer to what he did with No More Heroes than what he did with Speed Grapher(Though Speed Grapher does have its moments where it slips into his less... wholesome style) or Pokemon GO, right? Plus, it's pretty 50-50, I'd say. For every Pokemon GO he does, he does a Liberation Maiden, which, while the protagonist isn't the bustiest character on the planet, her ass is shoved in your face constantly. Plus, the guy designed Lucky Chloe, who gets similar shit from the Tekken crowd as the older FE crowd gives Awakening and Fates. In essence, she gets shit for being "Too anime" in a fighting series that is already very anime. Lucky Chloe also has pretty prominent honkers and is total fanservice, so there's that.

56 minutes ago, Sbuscoz said:

As I said he isn't the character designer, but let's see, maids have ribbons because their purpose is being esthetically pleasing, not combat units. Male have a belt too, but I'm not going to defend a stupid decision. Again, he doesn't design the clases, and they use the same model for everyone in the same class, and Benny makes sense. He wears red because he is the Kain of the game.

As I said before don't judge his work seeing only seeing NMH, he has more "grounded" works too and then come cat donuts.

He used different colors though, Inigo/Gregor/Severa,Sumia/Cordelia/Cynthia, Selena/Laslow...

Everyone likes defferent tastes, and it's perfectly fine to not like him, but I felt there were a lot of thing that could be corrected. 

And that's the problem with the Awakening/Fates designs. They cater to an ENTIRELY different crowd than the crowd that followed Fire Emblem for 20+ years prior. Everything is at the behest of what is "aesthetically pleasing", even if it serves no purpose and makes no sense. FE used to(I guess with SoV, still technically is) have a much more practical, for lack of a better word and not wanting to repeat myself, style to it.

I'll go back to my point in that, you're absolutely right, he doesn't design the classes, but he has more freedom than you're giving him credit for to deviate from the base designs he's given. Maybe he could work wonders with a competent designer, and maybe he'd feel "less anime", but I really doubt his designs would gel any better with the other 13 games in the franchise that aren't Fates and Awakening.

Also, how does Benny make sense? He's far from Kellam bad, but how in the world does he move anything from his waist up? His shoulder pauldrons are literally bolted to his chestplate, and he's got like, massive 6 inch pieces of just metal on his inner elbow.

I was just critiquing the Flora/Felicia thing that was brought up. I know Kozaki also uses similar armor designs with different color schemes.

And yeah, again, I'm fine if you like his designs, but this whole argument basically sprang out of @Pegasus Knightand I not seeing Thanny's statement of Kozaki being a break from the "typical anime style" of FE artwork, and actually seeing him as a more exemplary case of "typical anime style" than many previous artists.

Edited by Slumber
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1 hour ago, Slumber said:

Unless it's Hiro Mashima, it's hard to point to a specific style somebody's aping, since while there are a lot of prevalent art trends in anime/manga, everyone has their own style.

But it you want a "general" rundown of styles that I see as very reminiscent of Kozaki's style, pretty much any modern medieval fantasy series. There are designs from Sword Art that look like something Kozaki would draw(With less detail obviously, since they're in motion). And I don't think I have to point out how bad it is to be compared to SAO.

For sure, everyone certainly has their own style, but the last person to come up in my mind that is original and distinctive would be the artist behind Fairy Tail, but that's my opinion. If you personally see fit to compare Kozaki's work to Sword Art Online, that's up to you. But please don't suddenly say "point out how bad it is to be compared to SAO" when it was just you comparing the two on a whim.

1 hour ago, Slumber said:

The art director isn't the one saying "Give her big tits". The art director is the one saying "This is how Dark Mages should look, and this is how blah blah blah should look." If you're at all familiar with Kozaki's other works, big breasts are a him thing.

For breasts to actually be about the size of a human head, they'd have to roughly be a G cup. That is absolutely massive. For 4 women in the army to have breasts like that absolutely isn't normal. Even in America, where obesity is rampant and inflates the average breast size, America still averages out at DD cup, a full 3 cups smaller than a G cup. In a world where there basically are no obese people, there being FOUR G cups(Even lowballing it, I'd say none of those women are smaller than a DDD cup) is about the equivalent of there being 4 men in the party who are 7 feet tall.

And I never said having huge breasts was "bad design". You're projecting a bunch of things I never said. I said it's a common ANIME design, and that it's hard to argue that Kozaki's designs are "more proportional" than previous FEs when there are so many breasts THAT big on the battlefield. It's much harder to think of a major anime series that DOESN'T have a cast chock-full of characters with comically huge boobs than it is to think of a series that doesn't. Basically like, 75% of anything aimed at kids older than 10 years old is guilty of this.

Nope, I'm not familiar with him at all so thank you for the insight. I love big breasts too, to be frank. That was actually pretty informative and educational, so I thank you for that as well. But I never said it was the norm for women to have breasts larger than their heads, but there are people who have breasts as large as their heads, minority or not.

For the bold part, that's because the things I said in my previous post weren't ever directly towards you. It was for everyone in the thread, whether they agreed or disagreed with me. Since it's getting tiring mentioning breasts (or is it?), are there anything else Kozaki sinned against proportionate anatomy?

2 hours ago, Slumber said:

Okay. Jakob and Felicia don't wear the same thing. But why do Flora and Felicia(Who actually do share the same outfit outside of the stuff on their shoes, so I don't know what you're getting at) have four massive, loose ribbons flying outwards from their dress? Why does Camilla have an unfastened belt flapping between her boobs? Why can Kozaki, in all of his "detail oriented" glory, not design a single armor knight that makes sense? Why does Saizo, a super secret ninja assassin man, wear one of the EASIEST colors to see in the dark?

It's because for as detail oriented as Kozaki is, Kozaki's designs are inherently insane and unrealistic. He wouldn't have been picked as the artist for No More Heroes they weren't. He saw IRL that ninjas had small, sharp spines on the edges of some of their armguards, so he made them MASSIVE blades that were bigger than the ninja's forearm. He saw that knights wore a fair amount of plate metal. So he made knights walking sheets of plate metal.

And say what you will about past FEs tendency to reuse outfits for characters, at least they used different color schemes. Flora and Felicia just have different heads.

I'm lumping Felicia and Jakob together because they're literally just a maid and a butler and he could have just made them extremely generic and lazily designed uniforms, but he didn't. I'm not sure why you're using this point against me but the reason why they have the same clothes and color schemes are because it's a uniform, their dress code and black represents Nohr? I don't see the practicality of giving each made their own color scheme. I've never even said a single thing about past Fire Emblem characters reusing outfits...

Speaking of practicality and realism, please don't use that argument against any of Kozaki's characters' costumes when ANY old Fire Emblem entry's characters have violated that rule long before him. What about Hidari's characters, why aren't you listing constructive practicalities against the characters of SoV? The argument of practicalities on armor/weapons are long invalid if it wasn't there in the first place.

2 hours ago, Slumber said:

Look, if you like Kozaki, fine. But his designs are a far, far throw from how the designs of the past were. There are a lot of us, who weren't introduced to the franchise at Awakening/Fates, who like the simpler, more down-to-earth designs.

And I'm sure there are a lot of like-minded people like me who are introduced to the franchise at Awakening/Fates and because of what he's currently doing. It's called modernizing and evolving the game, change is bound to happen especially to the art direction and design of a game, especially to a series as old as Fire Emblem. There are a lot of down-to-earth designs in Awakening and Fates, but doesn't mean they can't co-exist with characters given a more creativity and spice in to their designs. But at the end of the day, it's not me or you who decides whether or not he stays with the series, but I personally would hope he does. If not, then the next in line has some big shoes to fill.

Also, I looked up 'No More Heroes', I likey.

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32 minutes ago, thanny said:

For sure, everyone certainly has their own style, but the last person to come up in my mind that is original and distinctive would be the artist behind Fairy Tail, but that's my opinion. If you personally see fit to compare Kozaki's work to Sword Art Online, that's up to you. But please don't suddenly say "point out how bad it is to be compared to SAO" when it was just you comparing the two on a whim.

I used Hiro as a prominent case where somebody clearly was aping a style from somebody else, not using him as an example of somebody with an original style.

It's half and half with SAO. It was a partially "on a whim", but I picked it because SAO is emblematic of aesthetics in medieval fantasy series nowadays, which is where I see a lot of similarities to Kozaki's FE designs. So using SAO specifically was on a whim, but using it as a key example of something much more general was not, as that's an opinion/thought I've had pretty much since Fates came out.

32 minutes ago, thanny said:

Nope, I'm not familiar with him at all so thank you for the insight. I love big breasts too, to be frank. That was actually pretty informative and educational, so I thank you for that as well. But I never said it was the norm for women to have breasts larger than their heads, but there are people who have breasts as large as their heads, minority or not.

For the bold part, that's because the things I said in my previous post weren't ever directly towards you. It was for everyone in the thread, whether they agreed or disagreed with me. Since it's getting tiring mentioning breasts (or is it?), are there anything else Kozaki sinned against proportionate anatomy?

I like big breasts as much as the next straight guy... well, that's probably not true, since a lot of dudes seem to like inhumanly huge boobs, and I find those pretty off-putting. REGARDLESS, the thing is, I like big breasts when I want to see them. I do not like big breasts when they're shoved in my face all the time, and I'm really not into anime breasts. No matter how real you get them to look, I can't separate them from the dude who was probably getting uncomfortably excited while drawing them.

The big breasts are the main thing, but Kozaki spills into "anime eyes" with his young characters.

32 minutes ago, thanny said:

Speaking of practicality and realism, please don't use that argument against any of Kozaki's characters' costumes when ANY old Fire Emblem entry's characters have violated that rule long before him. What about Hidari's characters, why aren't you listing constructive practicalities against the characters of SoV? The argument of practicalities on armor/weapons are long invalid if it wasn't there in the first place..

The big offenders from SoV are Deen and Valbar. Deen, I'll say right now, I just think is flatout a bad character with an even worse character design. His solid purple design with spikes everywhere makes him reminiscent of Coldsteel the Hedgehog.

Valbar, meanwhile, while his armor is INSANELY huge and no human could ever realistically wear that in battle, I can at least comprehend how each individual part moves and how somebody, supposing they were strong enough, could move in that armor without tearing it to shred. I cannot say the same for the Knights of Awakening and Fates. Even Grieth, who, as a Dreadfighter, should be COVERED in spikes and stuff, but he's got a pretty subdued outfit.

32 minutes ago, thanny said:

And I'm sure there are a lot of like-minded people like me who are introduced to the franchise at Awakening/Fates and because of what he's currently doing. It's called modernizing and evolving the game, change is bound to happen especially to the art direction and design of a game, especially to a series as old as Fire Emblem. There are a lot of down-to-earth designs in Awakening and Fates, but doesn't mean they can't co-exist with characters given a more creativity and spice in to their designs. But at the end of the day, it's not me or you who decides whether or not he stays with the series, but I personally would hope he does. If not, then the next in line has some big shoes to fill.

And I'm sure you're right, but "Who has more fans" was never the point of this argument. It was "Who is more anime", which snowballed into what exactly is "anime" about designs, and how practical Kozaki's designs are compared to designs of previous FE artists. I don't think "evolving" with anime trends makes Kozaki less anime than his predecessors. Mostly because A) Being more modern with anime designs still makes Kozaki anime and B) I think designs in anime/manga have gone downhill a lot in the past decade or so.

I also think Fire Emblem would be better off if it adhered to the design philosophies that it stuck with for decades, rather than suddenly shift and follow the designs of what's popular. I understand Nintendo and IS are businesses, so they will go wherever the money is, but I feel like with Kozaki(Though really more with whoever designed the classes for Awakening/Fates) they lost some of their identity.

Even though they switched artists frequently, there was still something distinctly "Fire Emblem" about how the games looked up until Awakening. Which was still kind of Fire Emblem, but it was like, Fire Emblem smeared with a layer of Vaseline. Fates was damn near unrecognizable.

32 minutes ago, thanny said:

Also, I looked up 'No More Heroes', I likey.

They're good games. Kinda clunky and a bit basic, but funny and engaging. And a new one is coming out for the Switch! So if you feel inclined, go ahead and try it out when it comes out, supposing you have a Switch for FE Switch. And again, I feel like Kozaki's designs really fit well with those games.

Edited by Slumber
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No More Heroes is getting a Switch game soon, BTW.

But, I looked up more Hidari art, and the weird monochromatic nature of SoV's designs is not a regular Hidari thing. It was definitely a trait of SoV's art direction. Sooo, the major complaint I had with Hidari's otherwise great designs was 3DS limitations. Nice.

 

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10 hours ago, thanny said:

That’s completely fine if you don’t see it from my perspective, I respect that. But I would like to see some examples of work in the industry you know that makes Kozaki another generic anime artist.

I’m not sure what you mean by Studio Ghibli being ‘not conventionally pretty’, the only main protagonists that remotely fit that description are Porco Rosso and... Ponyo..? As for One Piece, I personally like it, but I know a lot of people that don’t like the style due to the stick thin limbs, exaggerated features (hey look most of the chicks have giant knockers too!) etc.

 

obviously we are just discussing here...

The  characters of studio ghibli... they are not conventionally pretty! In any other case Chiiro would look like the lolis of FE and Nausica like a character from Fairy Tail... etc The style is kinda datish/old and the eyes are not the sailor moon eyes that are so popular in anime... (mononoke and teh pretty prince from the moving castle are the most conventional and the were drawn on purpose that way)

 

As for One piece u dont have to go further than comparing Fairy tail with it... Mashima copied Oda's style and made it more conventional and generic.. hence why all his characters are pretty...

The One Piece anime also made fun of the idea  by making Luffy a generic Bishonen looking character in Boa's Dream

The differences between dinstict styles and Anime "generic" are in the eyes, face shape, proportions, hair ..

On teh otehr hand FE is generic anime style.. i dotn think anyone can argue with this since the creators obviously were going to this route in order attract the western audience... thats why the characters look like SAO, and its not just awakening/fates older FE titles were following the manga trends of teh past... Marth and friends look like saint seiya which was the popular style at the time...

 

Heck some even argue that awakening was so popular because it ride the hype of SAO..

 

My point is some people like this artist some the otehr... BUT claiming that kozaki's style its not a typical anime style its not correct

 

bishounenluffy.jpg

studio_ghibli_female_characters_by_ivanr

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5 hours ago, Slumber said:

His design aesthetic, so more so the latter. I'd like to see anything from old FEs that looks like they're out of SAO, its knockoffs, or really any modern medieval-fantasy series. The closest I'd say is probably Ike, and that's simply because of his sole shoulder pauldron.

I was talking in general, there are lots of manga with normal armor, specially if you go back a few years. It depends on the "trend", currently people seem to like more "modernized" outfits than before.

5 hours ago, Slumber said:

I'd say a fair majority are over the top and over designed. There ARE less characters with anime hair in Awakening, but you still have examples like Maribelle's stereotypical hair drills, Lissa's feathered pigtails and Flavia's feathered ponytail, Vaike's Jersey Shore blowout. These are hairstyles that are still a stark contrast to previous entries in the series. Compare the character designs that Kozaki did to the character designs Hidari did. You do see a massive difference, and why the older crowd generally liked Hidari's design sensibilities compared to Kozaki's, right?

And design/outfit-wise, there's still Aversa, who might be more egregious than anything in Fates.

Yes, it's ultimately the class designer who said "Cavaliers need to wear toilets, Armor Knights must be unable to realistically move, Fighters must wear hubcaps, Berserkers must wear bone underwear and Dark Mages must wear nothing", and whoever the class designer for the Kozaki games is should be forced to work the front desk at IS' offices, but plenty of artists have diverged from the general class designs for the sake of better/more standout character designs. Galzus' fur coat over the standard Hero designs, Raven and Linus' trenchcoat designs over the generic Mercenaries, Geese's captain's longcoat over the standard Pirate/Berserker design, Soren not having a similar design aesthetic as Ilyana and Tormod, etc. Kozaki has more freedom than you're giving him credit for.

When I talked about overdesigned characters I was talking about hair and face, which are a minority in Awakening (I'm not saying there aren't). In Flavia's case I always thought that her hair was like, having a ponytail with afro, I know it was just an example though. I personally liked more the realistic aproach to SoV than the modernized Awakening/Fates, though there are still some questionable designs in it too, but I suppose that people treat them as a lesser evil. And yes, Aversa was pretty terrible.

There where characters with modified models, like Henry, but I see what you mean. I assume that they didn't want too many differences between characters because they didn't want the model to take a lot of space, and there's also the reclassing, but that's only me making assumptions so... 

6 hours ago, Slumber said:

I may have been too quick to jump to NMH, since that was my first introduction to him, but you'd agree that his FE work is much closer to what he did with No More Heroes than what he did with Speed Grapher(Though Speed Grapher does have its moments where it slips into his less... wholesome style) or Pokemon GO, right? Plus, it's pretty 50-50, I'd say. For every Pokemon GO he does, he does a Liberation Maiden, which, while the protagonist isn't the bustiest character on the planet, her ass is shoved in your face constantly. Plus, the guy designed Lucky Chloe, who gets similar shit from the Tekken crowd as the older FE crowd gives Awakening and Fates. In essence, she gets shit for being "Too anime" in a fighting series that is already very anime. Lucky Chloe also has pretty prominent honkers and is total fanservice, so there's that.

To me his FE works are kinda in the middle, having characters like Gregor in the normal side and others like Camilla in the exagerated, but yes it's pretty 50-50, what shows us that his style isn't really over the top, he adapts it to the setting of the game/anime/manga, it just happens that his more known works are in the "too anime" zone.

What I was talking about though, is the anatomical/proportinal thing, while some of the things I said are fanservicy, their body is correct, and the number of character with huge breast is pretty low. And for Lucky Chloe having a big rack, I'd say no. https://pbs.twimg.com/media/B4ShwgtCIAAUfMA.jpg

6 hours ago, Slumber said:

And that's the problem with the Awakening/Fates designs. They cater to an ENTIRELY different crowd than the crowd that followed Fire Emblem for 20+ years prior. Everything is at the behest of what is "aesthetically pleasing", even if it serves no purpose and makes no sense. FE used to(I guess with SoV, still technically is) have a much more practical, for lack of a better word and not wanting to repeat myself, style to it.

I'll go back to my point in that, you're absolutely right, he doesn't design the classes, but he has more freedom than you're giving him credit for to deviate from the base designs he's given. Maybe he could work wonders with a competent designer, and maybe he'd feel "less anime", but I really doubt his designs would gel any better with the other 13 games in the franchise that aren't Fates and Awakening.

Also, how does Benny make sense? He's far from Kellam bad, but how in the world does he move anything from his waist up? His shoulder pauldrons are literally bolted to his chestplate, and he's got like, massive 6 inch pieces of just metal on his inner elbow.

I was just critiquing the Flora/Felicia thing that was brought up. I know Kozaki also uses similar armor designs with different color schemes.

And yeah, again, I'm fine if you like his designs, but this whole argument basically sprang out of @Pegasus Knightand I not seeing Thanny's statement of Kozaki being a break from the "typical anime style" of FE artwork, and actually seeing him as a more exemplary case of "typical anime style" than many previous artists.

I was talking more in an in-universe sense, that maids aren't really for combat so their uniform isn't either, but you are right, it's kinda like those movies that try really hard to seem cool but fail. As I said before, I also prefer real armors, it's just that love his artstyle, so it's balanced. There's also the fact that I'm easily pleased, but I remember seeing the SoV trailer and thinking "wow, their armors make sense!".

He has portraits of Ogma, Navarre and Jagen, but they're only sketches.

For Benny I'll say the same you said about Valbar, I can imagine how someone really strong would be able to move in it.

I wouldn't really that say that it is more tipical anime than previous artist, from Senri Kita and some characters from Sachiko Wada I feel huge vibes of shoujo manga, which is not bad, they simply have different influences.

Just asking, have you seen Kozaki's twitter sketches about the fates characters doing their routines? Oboro sewing, Effie eating, Takumi after archery practice, etc. If you don't like his style I suppose it won't amaze you, but it was a good change after their designs in the game.

 

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  • 2 weeks later...

i absolutely love both hidari and kozaki. Hope to see continued work from them in the rest of the fe series. I've heard rumors floating around that fe switch was gonna be gothic/vampire themed and if so i think hidari can pull off the sort of rustic old fashioned look better but ofc wouldn't be opposed to kozaki doing work for fe switch. If i had to pick an older artist to return it'd definitely be wada sachiko bc their artwork look so beautiful and water color-y. If i had to pick someone completely new id love to see someone like kazuma kaneko if the rumor proved to be true, although even if they wanted to go for more demonic designs it'd still be a HUGE swerve design wise.

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38 minutes ago, smash-brethren said:

If i had to pick someone completely new id love to see someone like kazuma kaneko if the rumor proved to be true, although even if they wanted to go for more demonic designs it'd still be a HUGE swerve design wise.

Well TMS has a few mirage designs that scream SMT. Like Sage Tharja and Sniper Virion, and I get Ongyo Ki vibes from Swordmaster Navarre (the oni mask is a big part why, plus the dark coloring).

Kaneko's SMT work is a little "creepy dollface" looking, which does not lend itself well to charming characters and indirectly supports I would think. Seeing him try his hand at Heroes character or two would be cool though.

And when was the last time he did artwork for SMT? I thought Masayuki Doi (is the first name correct?) or someone else took over that job. SMTIV Kaneko did scenarios or story or something if I remember the credits right (how do you go from making art to story/whatever "scenarios" are?).

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13 hours ago, Interdimensional Observer said:

Well TMS has a few mirage designs that scream SMT. Like Sage Tharja and Sniper Virion, and I get Ongyo Ki vibes from Swordmaster Navarre (the oni mask is a big part why, plus the dark coloring).

Kaneko's SMT work is a little "creepy dollface" looking, which does not lend itself well to charming characters and indirectly supports I would think. Seeing him try his hand at Heroes character or two would be cool though.

And when was the last time he did artwork for SMT? I thought Masayuki Doi (is the first name correct?) or someone else took over that job. SMTIV Kaneko did scenarios or story or something if I remember the credits right (how do you go from making art to story/whatever "scenarios" are?).

hmmmmm not actually sure when he stopped doing artwork for smt, p sure his last game as character designer was devil summoner 2???? which was ps2 era iirc. I know his creepy dollface style isn't the best for cute characters but i heard a rumor that fe switch was going to be gothic horror/vampire themed and i feel his creepy but cute artstyle could lend itself really well to that atmosphere, definitely dont see it actually happening but i just think itd be cool to see yknow?

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1 hour ago, smash-brethren said:

hmmmmm not actually sure when he stopped doing artwork for smt, p sure his last game as character designer was devil summoner 2???? which was ps2 era iirc. I know his creepy dollface style isn't the best for cute characters but i heard a rumor that fe switch was going to be gothic horror/vampire themed and i feel his creepy but cute artstyle could lend itself really well to that atmosphere, definitely dont see it actually happening but i just think itd be cool to see yknow?

As a huge fan of Kazuma Kaneko, if the "leaks" were true, I think his art could potentially fit. But, for the current tone of FE games, I think it would be jarring to see his art.

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The last time Kaneko designed anything for Megaten was original Strange Journey (2009). Nobody knows why he isn't working on the series' art direction anymore. In 2017 he drew Oda Nobunaga for some educational book and participated in interview about Lost Child  because the game had some heavy Megaten influences (also related to El Shaddai but I don't know how exactly).

If IS suddenly commissioned him for creature/monster designs I would be very happy but he isn't someone who you hire if you want to sell attractive anime characters to general crowd.

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After looking up different old and new artist for FE who I´d like to see, I´d like to suggest the following artists:

 

Returning Artists I would want:

1. Yusuke Kozaki: I am in the camp that loves Kozaki. I personally like the way he draws faces and how he shades his art, it´s simple, clear and very unique. His proportions are also not to exaggerated. So, just give me anything from him and I´ll love it.

2.Hidari: Hidari´s art is also really gorgeous in my eyes, I like their colors and also the way they shade. I saw rather much backlash towards Kozaki´s art for being too different and flashy for Fire Emblem. Therefore Hidari seems to be rather well suited due to combining the old and new FE-style, that´s why I think they would also make a good artist for FE Switch.

Returning Artist I don´t want:

1. Kotaro Yamada: I really, REALLY dislike his art. I searched all his art and the only ones I like are his Virion Cipher artworks, no masterpieces but they don´t look too bad, and his Ephraim Awakening DLC art, but there are better artworks for him as well. His recent Heroes art is just not to my taste, so I´d rather not have him for anything mainline FE related. (That´s also why I hope the gothic/vampire leak is false)

2. Rika Suzuki: I like how much she seems to love FE herself but I just can´t with her faces. I have yet to see one nice artwork of her where I like the faces.

3. Senri Kita: I just don´t think she fits in with FE´s modern style.

4. Sachiko Wada: I rather like her art, but I also think it looks too "retro"? for the new FE.

I could go on, but I think I´d better leave it at this^^

 

There is one new Artist that I think would be nice for FE Switch:

Kurahana Chinatsu!

I think her overall shading and coloring fits well with FE. So far I also haven´t really seen a bad design by her.

Here are a few examples of her art:

Spoiler

Kurahana.Chinatsu_full.1763136.thumb.jpg.15cc40d4f348d56c88724e224fe61796.jpg574770bda5e61d28fb04eac79f8fce1a.thumb.jpg.4af8dbdd87bc76fe698973037eb13fb8.jpg4c59f1088884f42bd73c1e5c4b233f7e.thumb.jpg.cf760078d8aef6c705eb83dd2c410d98.jpg8348848c15dd51a8c3fee7730b568693--anime-characters-pandora.thumb.jpg.6b25f84f84e17d04532898c622404d50.jpg

 

She can also draw different body types, which I think look also really nice! (not many female characters though...) So, how would you like her as artist for FE Switch?

 

Spoiler

Kosuge.Haruyoshi_full.1918577.jpg.e39e64df691892deee2fdd9a8403e68a.jpgKayama_Ume_full.1918587.jpg.03ae2055057123cf4817688f90b3790e.jpgRyuuzouin.Tetsu_full.1918583.jpg.753786bd39528a6d6ddb8bf097b9daaf.jpgDDeRwfeUAAAODDJ.jpg.82ee6fa4d72f679fa4b262bad9380d69.jpggames_gaym_jp.thumb_jpg.c034b612f800783fa6d9a0207ae6f086.jpgHikime_Tei_full.1918581.jpg.d49646360460e084f26b84155194b143.jpgYashio.Sawako_full.1918590.jpg.11130f18ecd9ca1306fccd1354b94dd9.jpg31fbccf8266ed91f02ede11c56db0a06.thumb.jpg.747417ae236918b17baeee6d26b9b7e6.jpgKurahana.Chinatsu_full.1121852.thumb.jpg.d96efa2b2ef4f316cc85689118a74285.jpg1507498285.jpg.0f54e06941eab25e5dad465752cebf50.jpg

 

 

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how exactly Senri Kita doesnt fit the current FE style? and whats exactly is the current FE art style.... any artist will have different feeling since awakening/fates were designed by the same man...

 

Sachiko Wada made Soleil looking pretty in the card... while the original is a boring pink laslow

 

and how senri doenst fit and Kurahana Chinatsu fits where her art its like euro manga... her coloring is good but her characters are ugly and look generic

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2 minutes ago, Pegasus Knight said:

way too realistic for FE

Since when did Fire Emblem have a stable art style anyway, maybe they had a stable artstyle during the GBA>Wii Era but Fire Emblem is all about the armor designs that are down to earth almost realistic designed armors until the 3DS era, where they shook things up, what better representation to Fire Emblem going HD is there than getting Shinkiro as the art designer, a more realistic looking characters, with proper anime facial features would be the way to go, with the proper armor to go with it, Fire Emblem in my eyes should try something new, everything can be successful with the right marketing, Fire Emblem with Berserk-esque world and more mature stories, would  be a dream come true, and the best artist to realize this vision is non other than Shinkiro, the guy is so damn good, unless they go back to Senri Kita that's my other option for Fire Emblem, I can already  visualize the way he is going to go about it.

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1 hour ago, The Radiant Hero said:

Since when did Fire Emblem have a stable art style anyway, maybe they had a stable artstyle during the GBA>Wii Era but Fire Emblem is all about the armor designs that are down to earth almost realistic designed armors until the 3DS era, where they shook things up, what better representation to Fire Emblem going HD is there than getting Shinkiro as the art designer, a more realistic looking characters, with proper anime facial features would be the way to go, with the proper armor to go with it, Fire Emblem in my eyes should try something new, everything can be successful with the right marketing, Fire Emblem with Berserk-esque world and more mature stories, would  be a dream come true, and the best artist to realize this vision is non other than Shinkiro, the guy is so damn good, unless they go back to Senri Kita that's my other option for Fire Emblem, I can already  visualize the way he is going to go about it.

FE characters are generic popular anime looking.... from Marth to Fates siblings all look like normal anime characters...

 

If u honestly think that they will go away from the popular anime-ish style to sth liek this... be my guest... its just not realistic (the irony)

 

And what do u mean by Berserk-esque world? isnt it already a fantasy? unless u expect raping demons... which again wont happen...

 

254cc61fdcdce7afd70411f4ed7af8a8--king-o

 

 

toshiaki-mori-03.jpg

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1 hour ago, Pegasus Knight said:

FE characters are generic popular anime looking.... from Marth to Fates siblings all look like normal anime characters...

 

If u honestly think that they will go away from the popular anime-ish style to sth liek this... be my guest... its just not realistic (the irony)

 

And what do u mean by Berserk-esque world? isnt it already a fantasy? unless u expect raping demons... which again wont happen...

 

254cc61fdcdce7afd70411f4ed7af8a8--king-o

 

 

toshiaki-mori-03.jpg

There is Fantasy and there is Dark Fantasy, Dark fantasy doesn't have to be about Demon Raping, it can be gritty and yet Fantastical, a more realistic take on fantasy, something Fire Emblem should delve into in my opinion.

 

and By the way artists adapt, Shinkiro did the art for MvC3 and TvC, and you will realize he has a wide range of skills.

Edited by The Radiant Hero
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1 hour ago, The Radiant Hero said:

There is Fantasy and there is Dark Fantasy, Dark fantasy doesn't have to be about Demon Raping, it can be gritty and yet Fantastical, a more realistic take on fantasy, something Fire Emblem should delve into in my opinion.

 

and By the way artists adapt, Shinkiro did the art for MvC3 and TvC, and you will realize he has a wide range of skills.

As in conquest where lago and the boldy guy kills all the cheve citizens? and if i recall correctly is mentioned that scarlet  was murdered in the most gruesome way?

the next step is to have raping demons... like really... i dont see anything else berserk has that FE doesnt have at this point...

 

and how is Berserk realistic in any way? the golden era arc yes ( but the had to almost exclude all the demonic stuff) but the rest? not in one hundred million!

 

 

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