Can Echoes really do it?

[Dandy Druid]

3 hours ago, Flee Fleet! said:

huh? I don't know anything about that? 

 

The only "controversial" marriage I guess is between Seliph and Julia, but that's just a glitch by the jealousy system.

Spoiler

The other things they may have to censor is when Tinny reveals that her mother Tailto committed suicide because of her mental issues (sounds like depression + PTSD). I know the recent FEs featured it, but it was sacrificial, and didn't mention the domestic abuse towards a character nor did they imply any sort of mental illness. Also, Bramsel abuses Leen for not wanting to have sex with him, Sylvia offers Alec a "special dance" in Chapter 2, Sylvia being 14 (but that's an easy fix, just make her 18). Those are the other things I'm worried about, because they help make the story darker and make the villains more human in a sense, which makes the themes of the game much more serious.

EDIT: also Sylvia is a victim of domestic abuse.

 

Edited January 29, 2017 by Dandy Druid

[Flee Fleet!]

Spoiler

 

@pinguyFrank Marriages between cousins isn't that much of a issue, especially considering how it's legal in many places. Although if they want to censor it then I guess they could bring up some bs relationship thingy in the story in order to have the cousins marry each other, kinda like how they made Corrin have a completely different father just so they could marry their "siblings". As for the Bramsel and Leen thing, doesn't he just imprison her? If they want to censor the dialogue between them, then they could make it more funny or witty. After all Leen is a dancer with an attitude, like Sylvia. However, in the case of Laylea....that might be a problem...

@Dandy Druid The suicide of Taillte may be something to censor, but I don't think they would do it, mainly because Taillte was captured along with Tinny, and she was tortured by Hilda. If they want to censor it then they'll have to change Taillte's miserable ending. Another way to censor this is that instead of suicide, she died by the hands of Hilda, although that would be more brutal. Also does Bramsel actually abuse Leen? The wiki says she was imprisoned when she refused him. If anyone can post the dialogue between them, that would be appreciated. Also yeah, Sylvia can just be changed to 18. They did that with Lyn too. Besides, she doesn't look as young as 14, in my opinion. As for Sylvia being a victim of domestic abuse.....eh, I don't think they would change it. Probably IS would just make it less harsh than it was stated in the original.

 

Also, I just remembered something else:  Dew. Dew's a kid and he can pair up with every lady. Besides Sylvia, everyone else is older than him. They could make him older, but he's pretty much the only unit in Gen 1 with the face of a kid, and that could make him lose his charm, in my opinion.

 The other problem is...
 

Spoiler

 

the Claude x Sylvia pairing. Sylvia has minor Blaggi blood whereas Claude has major. While they both can marry, it's hinted that Sylvia might possibly be a younger sibling of Claude, iirc. IS could "censor" this by hinting them to be cousins instead or make them half siblings for the ultimate way to avoid incest LOL , unless someone has a better suggestion?

EDIT: They're actually distant relatives. Thanks for correcting me, Azz.

 

 

Edited January 29, 2017 by Flee Fleet!

[Azz]

1 hour ago, Flee Fleet! said:

@pinguyFrank Marriages between cousins isn't that much of a issue, especially considering how it's legal in many places. Although if they want to censor it then I guess they could bring up some bs relationship thingy in the story in order to have the cousins marry each other, kinda like how they made Corrin have a completely different father just so they could marry their "siblings". As for the Bramsel and Leen thing, doesn't he just imprison her? If they want to censor the dialogue between them, then they could make it more funny or witty. After all Leen is a dancer with an attitude, like Sylvia. However, in the case of Laylea....that might be a problem...

@Dandy Druid The suicide of Taillte may be something to censor, but I don't think they would do it, mainly because Taillte was captured along with Tinny, and she was tortured by Hilda. If they want to censor it then they'll have to change Taillte's miserable ending. Another way to censor this is that instead of suicide, she died by the hands of Hilda, although that would be more brutal. Also does Bramsel actually abuse Leen? The wiki says she was imprisoned when she refused him. If anyone can post the dialogue between them, that would be appreciated. Also yeah, Sylvia can just be changed to 18. They did that with Lyn too. Besides, she doesn't look as young as 14, in my opinion. As for Sylvia being a victim of domestic abuse.....eh, I don't think they would change it. Probably IS would just make it less harsh than it was stated in the original.

 

Also, I just remembered something else:  Dew. Dew's a kid and he can pair up with every lady. Besides Sylvia, everyone else is older than him. They could make him older, but he's pretty much the only unit in Gen 1 with the face of a kid, and that could make him lose his charm, in my opinion. The other problem is the Claude x Sylvia pairing. Sylvia has minor Blaggi blood whereas Claude has major. While they both can marry, it's hinted that Sylvia might possibly be a younger sibling of Claude, iirc. IS could "censor" this by hinting them to be cousins instead or make them half siblings for the ultimate way to avoid incest LOL , unless someone has a better suggestion?

 

Claude and Sylvia weren't actually siblings. They were distant relatives I believe like 3rd cousin once removed or something

[Flee Fleet!]

@Azz Ah, okay.

 

Also, I forgot to spoiler my last post, so sorry if anyone got spoiled.

[Dinar87]

I wonder how people will react to echoes when it releases. Do you guys think it'll sell well at all, let alone as good as the last two main entries? Will this finally be the game to unite both the veterans and the newer fans?

[Flee Fleet!]

3 minutes ago, Dinar87 said:

I wonder how people will react to echoes when it releases. Do you guys think it'll sell well at all, let alone as good as the last two main entries? Will this finally be the game to unite both the veterans and the newer fans?

Maybe. While the veterans will likely enjoy the Echoes, I have doubts for the newbies. But hey, Echoes is a remake of Gaiden, and Gaiden is the most different of the FE games. I think both fans will enjoy it...unless people want waifu/husbandos, kids, and marriages to be in this game. Adding kids is unlikely, marriages however have a high chance. As for adding an Avatar, that's unlikely, in my opinion.

[ChibiToastExplosion]

3 minutes ago, Dinar87 said:

I wonder how people will react to echoes when it releases. Do you guys think it'll sell well at all, let alone as good as the last two main entries? Will this finally be the game to unite both the veterans and the newer fans?

You'll never unite this fanbase

Enjoy what you enjoy, and let's all stop pinning the future of the entire franchise on Echoes, kay? That goes for everybody. FE isn't in a sink or swim situation right now.

Every, yes, EVERY FE is different, so no, one one will ever ever agree on a best game or a franchise "unifier". If this game doesn't sell than us Gaiden fans can still be hipsters, and if it does, well, great! That's even better. But whether it does sell or not isn't  going to influence how much I like the game or not.

If Tellius couldn't kill FE, than Echoes certainly wont.

[Yula]

Can Fire Emblem Echoes please an unpleasable fanbase? No, no it cannot. It is already being hyped up to be the savior of the Fire Emblem Franchise by the fandom. I was going to mention this in my LP that I scrapped(Because way too many technical issues), but I think I'll do it here. Very few people here have touched Gaiden and are making assumptions as to what Gaiden brought to the table. People are already saying, "Well if X is here, it will save the franchise!" Despite what they desire more than likely having already been in Gaiden.

 

Will Gaiden be a good game, yes. Will it be received well by the fandom that refuses to be placated at every single turn? Hahahaha... no. If anything, I expect newcomers to the series to be open and receptive to Echoes and then decide to look further into the franchise(ala Awakening and Fates, I know y'all hate hearing that despite the fact that it's the truth). Remember, hold back your expectations, do not expect it to save the franchise and stop hyping the goddamn game so much! Only then will Echoes actually do good, otherwise, y'all are going to doom the game to failure.

 

Also about this unpleasable fanbase comment. Y'all hyped up Awakening pre-release as if it would save the franchise(it did), then tore it down. Y'all hyped up Fates pre-release, ignored and ostracized me for my comments about how it was going to pull the status quo. Then tore it down post-release and ignored the fact that I was right about the game the entire time, saying, "Well I knew it was going to fail this entire time!" So my prediction with Echoes, y'all are already in the hyping it up as the savior of the franchise phase of the cycle. When it's released, I predict this forum to have it as the cool new thing to hate, something the fandom's been doing since Shadow Dragon.

 

In summary, Echoes will do well, amongst newcomers and people like myself who see the flaws in the game, but instead of tearing the whole game down for some flaws, acknowledges them and wishes they would fix the issues instead of throwing the baby out with the bathwater. Oh and it will do well with people who have played and enjoyed Gaiden, but that's a given.

[Dinar87]

30 minutes ago, Xelon said:

Can Fire Emblem Echoes please an unpleasable fanbase? No, no it cannot. It is already being hyped up to be the savior of the Fire Emblem Franchise by the fandom. I was going to mention this in my LP that I scrapped(Because way too many technical issues), but I think I'll do it here. Very few people here have touched Gaiden and are making assumptions as to what Gaiden brought to the table. People are already saying, "Well if X is here, it will save the franchise!" Despite what they desire more than likely having already been in Gaiden.

 

Will Gaiden be a good game, yes. Will it be received well by the fandom that refuses to be placated at every single turn? Hahahaha... no. If anything, I expect newcomers to the series to be open and receptive to Echoes and then decide to look further into the franchise(ala Awakening and Fates, I know y'all hate hearing that despite the fact that it's the truth). Remember, hold back your expectations, do not expect it to save the franchise and stop hyping the goddamn game so much! Only then will Echoes actually do good, otherwise, y'all are going to doom the game to failure.

 

Also about this unpleasable fanbase comment. Y'all hyped up Awakening pre-release as if it would save the franchise(it did), then tore it down. Y'all hyped up Fates pre-release, ignored and ostracized me for my comments about how it was going to pull the status quo. Then tore it down post-release and ignored the fact that I was right about the game the entire time, saying, "Well I knew it was going to fail this entire time!" So my prediction with Echoes, y'all are already in the hyping it up as the savior of the franchise phase of the cycle. When it's released, I predict this forum to have it as the cool new thing to hate, something the fandom's been doing since Shadow Dragon.

 

In summary, Echoes will do well, amongst newcomers and people like myself who see the flaws in the game, but instead of tearing the whole game down for some flaws, acknowledges them and wishes they would fix the issues instead of throwing the baby out with the bathwater. Oh and it will do well with people who have played and enjoyed Gaiden, but that's a given.

As for me personally, while no game will ever be 100% perfect, I'd be more than satisfied if the went back to the style of 4 and 5 or 9 and 10...though I still heavily enjoyed fates conquest. Funnily enough, most of my concerns/criticism about fates that I had were when I hadn't even played the game yet (I thought I knew enough about it to critique it at least somewhat) so I'm wondering if it's the same for others?  Also, sorry to hear that people ostracized you :(

Edited January 29, 2017 by Dinar87

[pinguyFrank]

To be honest i believe that Echoes will not be able to live for the people's expectations. I see a very good entry to the series coming in Echoes (the little i see in the trailer  and the original game it's worth a lot of hours of gameplay in my perspective)  but not good enough to become "the savior of the franchise" but a new center of criticism and backlash.

Edited January 29, 2017 by pinguyFrank

[Pikappa93]

I agree with you that the fanbase (a certain part of it, at least) will never be satisfied.

I might also add that at the time being, the franchise does not need to be saved at all. I think the whole "savior of the franchise" thing is just stupid.

Edited January 29, 2017 by Pikappa93

[hinode]

I doubt the diehard FE purists who disliked having a world map and random encounters in Sacred Stones and Awakening are going to appreciate them any more in this game. It's more a game for people interested in a hybrid of Fire Emblem with traditional RPGs rather than a return to classic FE gameplay.

On the other hand, support range is seemingly back to 3 tiles away like it was pre-Pair up, so that's probably out. And I doubt that marriage/kids are going to be added in a game with multiple canon-locked couples and the Whitewings who have established love-lives or unrequited crushes in Archanea. So people who just hate those specific parts of Awakening/Fates might be happy enough with Echoes even if the game is very different in other ways.

The best case scenario would probably be for the fandom to collectively get past a rigid binary of old school vs new school upon seeing a new release that's significantlly different from both FE6-10 and FE13/14. I don't think this game can bridge the divides within the fanbase, but maybe it can at least broaden the discourse a little.

[Tryhard]

What does it mean to be a "FE purist"? Veteran fans would be well aware that both Sacred Stones and Gaiden have a world map and grindable encounters, and that didn't seem to bother them before. What is the consensus on what 'classic FE gameplay' is when Sacred Stones is pretty well received by the fanbase in general?

I kinda think this is mainly a side project with not the whole future of the series resting on it, but it's not really hard to see how FE8, 13 and 14 took influences from FE2 in the first place. Hell, My Castle is pretty much an indication of them experimenting with that.

Edited January 29, 2017 by Tryhard

[goodperson707]

While I don't really disagree, there is the matter of scale and perception. Just because it wasn't seen to have reached this level before (and I can't be certain that it didn't) doesn't mean it wasn't seen as a negative by the (hypothetical) group. I'm pretty sure I remember seeing a decent amount of discontent over sacred stone's world map (ect) before the 3ds was a thing but that was quite a bit of time ago (and when things happen tends to blend together for me) . And with the angle of being concerned where the series is headed in regards to the mechanics in question we know now it was followed by PoR which didn't have those features. (And wasn't the window of not knowing about PoR pretty dang short? The various release dates seem to cap off at just over half a years difference. That short a window can affect alot about perception of a game, and it's a generally faster moving world compared to 12 years ago) 

Of course what that's worth is up to opinion. And yeah what does that term even mean. 

[Dandy Druid]

On 1/29/2017 at 1:56 AM, Flee Fleet! said:

  Hide contents

 

@pinguyFrank Marriages between cousins isn't that much of a issue, especially considering how it's legal in many places. Although if they want to censor it then I guess they could bring up some bs relationship thingy in the story in order to have the cousins marry each other, kinda like how they made Corrin have a completely different father just so they could marry their "siblings". As for the Bramsel and Leen thing, doesn't he just imprison her? If they want to censor the dialogue between them, then they could make it more funny or witty. After all Leen is a dancer with an attitude, like Sylvia. However, in the case of Laylea....that might be a problem...

@Dandy Druid The suicide of Taillte may be something to censor, but I don't think they would do it, mainly because Taillte was captured along with Tinny, and she was tortured by Hilda. If they want to censor it then they'll have to change Taillte's miserable ending. Another way to censor this is that instead of suicide, she died by the hands of Hilda, although that would be more brutal. Also does Bramsel actually abuse Leen? The wiki says she was imprisoned when she refused him. If anyone can post the dialogue between them, that would be appreciated. Also yeah, Sylvia can just be changed to 18. They did that with Lyn too. Besides, she doesn't look as young as 14, in my opinion. As for Sylvia being a victim of domestic abuse.....eh, I don't think they would change it. Probably IS would just make it less harsh than it was stated in the original.

 

 

 

 

When Jabarro talks to Aless after they deploy, Jabarro implies that Bramsel's intentions with the dancer were of sexual nature. He probably planned to put her in the dungeon to scare her and use it as a tactic to coax her into the act. 

For the dialogue thing, Laylea pretty much has the same personality as Leen, but sultrier. Maybe it's because I just watched a substitute-only run recently, but all of Laylea's scenes have a romantic tone to them, which I think contrasts with her opinion of Bramsel. then again she's my favorite substitute so I may be seeing everything in a glamorized lens.

[Harvey]

On 1/29/2017 at 8:55 PM, Xelon said:

Also about this unpleasable fanbase comment. Y'all hyped up Awakening pre-release as if it would save the franchise(it did), then tore it down. Y'all hyped up Fates pre-release, ignored and ostracized me for my comments about how it was going to pull the status quo. Then tore it down post-release and ignored the fact that I was right about the game the entire time, saying, "Well I knew it was going to fail this entire time!" So my prediction with Echoes, y'all are already in the hyping it up as the savior of the franchise phase of the cycle. When it's released, I predict this forum to have it as the cool new thing to hate, something the fandom's been doing since Shadow Dragon.

You know, I may end up having that same effect like you did when people get all hyped up about FE Heroes and I'm willing to bet that they will pretend that I didn't exist and will tear that game down eventually....also, I'm sorry if this sounds insulting but I laughed so hard on this statement alone! 

On 1/30/2017 at 0:34 AM, pinguyFrank said:

To be honest i believe that Echoes will not be able to live for the people's expectations. I see a very good entry to the series coming in Echoes (the little i see in the trailer  and the original game it's worth a lot of hours of gameplay in my perspective)  but not good enough to become "the savior of the franchise" but a new center of criticism and backlash.

Exactly my point. So far, Nintendo hasn't released any new info about this game...are they really going to leave it unchanged a lot or are they trying to emulate Awakening/Fates Mechanics to it fully?

 

[Flee Fleet!]

3 hours ago, Dandy Druid said:

  Reveal hidden contents

 

When Jabarro talks to Aless after they deploy, Jabarro implies that Bramsel's intentions with the dancer were of sexual nature. He probably planned to put her in the dungeon to scare her and use it as a tactic to coax her into the act. 

For the dialogue thing, Laylea pretty much has the same personality as Leen, but sultrier. Maybe it's because I just watched a substitute-only run recently, but all of Laylea's scenes have a romantic tone to them, which I think contrasts with her opinion of Bramsel. then again she's my favorite substitute so I may be seeing everything in a glamorized lens.

Nah, I still don't think it would get censored, despite Bramsel's sexual intentions.

 

Just look at Gheb from FE Sacred Stones. He captures Tana and plans to have an "interrogation with her", which obviously means he has sexual intentions. The tone is also like that.

[Slumber]

2 hours ago, Flee Fleet! said:

Nah, I still don't think it would get censored, despite Bramsel's sexual intentions.

 

Just look at Gheb from FE Sacred Stones. He captures Tana and plans to have an "interrogation with her", which obviously means he has sexual intentions. The tone is also like that.

The difference is that, unlike Leen and Bramsel, there's no implication that Gheb actually rapes Tana.

Also the whole deal with Leen being 14 years old.

Edited February 1, 2017 by Slumber

[Flee Fleet!]

12 minutes ago, Slumber said:

The difference is that, unlike Leen and Bramsel, there's no implication that Gheb actually rapes Tana.

Also the whole deal with Leen being 14 years old.

They could turn Leen 18 though, like with Lyn from FE7. Also, if that's the case, then I guess they could make it the same with Gheb- not have Bramsel actually rape Leen. 

Edited February 1, 2017 by Flee Fleet!

[Slumber]

4 minutes ago, Flee Fleet! said:

They could turn Leen 18 though, like with Lyn from FE7. Also, if that's the case, then I guess they could make it the same with Gheb- not have Bramsel actually rape Leen. 

You can't turn Leen 18. Gen 2 takes place 15 years after part 1. Plus, it's probably not the age thing(As I've covered, for whatever reason, people seem fine with the idea of children having sex and having babies, even in the west. See: Mozu, Hayato, Midori, Sakura, Elise, etc). It's more the rape thing, and I think that goes along with the censorship that people don't want in an FE4 remake.

I'd be fine with the idea of a 14-15 year old girl not being abused in some asshole's creepy rape dungeon, but some people might think differently.

[Flee Fleet!]

22 minutes ago, Slumber said:

You can't turn Leen 18. Gen 2 takes place 15 years after part 1. Plus, it's probably not the age thing(As I've covered, for whatever reason, people seem fine with the idea of children having sex and having babies, even in the west. See: Mozu, Hayato, Midori, Sakura, Elise, etc). It's more the rape thing, and I think that goes along with the censorship that people don't want in an FE4 remake.

I'd be fine with the idea of a 14-15 year old girl not being abused in some asshole's creepy rape dungeon, but some people might think differently.

Ahh, forgot about that. My bad.

 

Then I guess the only for the rape thing to censored is how they did with Aideen- just have her thrown in the castle dungeon as punishment for not agreeing to have sex or marriage with Bramsel. Although this does make Bramsel a sort of Gandolf: the older and uglier edition, it's a way to censor the "rape". Any better suggestions, though?

[Tryhard]

i mean, if we wanna go there, azel is a bastard child born through his father raping a maid before committing suicide years later. oh fe4.

http://fireemblem.wikia.com/wiki/Victor_(Genealogy_of_the_Holy_War)

you can't really change that implication without just removing it

Edited February 1, 2017 by Tryhard

[The DanMan]

On 1/29/2017 at 10:25 AM, Xelon said:

Will Gaiden be a good game, yes. Will it be received well by the fandom that refuses to be placated at every single turn? Hahahaha... no. If anything, I expect newcomers to the series to be open and receptive to Echoes and then decide to look further into the franchise(ala Awakening and Fates, I know y'all hate hearing that despite the fact that it's the truth). Remember, hold back your expectations, do not expect it to save the franchise and stop hyping the goddamn game so much! Only then will Echoes actually do good, otherwise, y'all are going to doom the game to failure.

Actually, everything I've seen points more towards newer fans not caring the slightest bit about older games and/or acting like asshats towards them and those who like it, with those actually digging into the series being a distinct minority (what happened around here right before Fates' release being a major example). And could you please stop acting so self-righteous?

On 1/29/2017 at 10:25 AM, Xelon said:

Also about this unpleasable fanbase comment. Y'all hyped up Awakening pre-release as if it would save the franchise(it did), then tore it down. Y'all hyped up Fates pre-release, ignored and ostracized me for my comments about how it was going to pull the status quo. Then tore it down post-release and ignored the fact that I was right about the game the entire time, saying, "Well I knew it was going to fail this entire time!" So my prediction with Echoes, y'all are already in the hyping it up as the savior of the franchise phase of the cycle. When it's released, I predict this forum to have it as the cool new thing to hate, something the fandom's been doing since Shadow Dragon.

Exactly WHO is hyping the game? It was completely out of the blue when it was announced, but now I see far more people saying "OMG QUIT HYPING IT" than people actually, you know, hyping it. It seems that most have learned from Awakening and Fates.

And either we have vastly different perceptions of hate or you're greatly exaggerating; there was a great amount of criticism of Fates following its release, but it was mostly valid and thought out.

The problem with Fates was that IS decided to hype it up so much, treating it like they'd learned from Awakening-- and many of us just wanted to turn back time to "the good ol' days" and went along with it. Fool me once, fool me twice seems to be in full effect now.

At best, you're preaching to the wrong crowd here on this forum; at worst, you're acting very self-righteous.

Edited February 1, 2017 by The DanMan

[Refa]

While everyone I know in the fanbase is definitely interested in SoV, I haven't heard anyone overhyping it or making any bold proclamations

[Yula]

On 2/1/2017 at 8:53 AM, The DanMan said:

Actually, everything I've seen points more towards newer fans not caring the slightest bit about older games and/or acting like asshats towards them and those who like it, with those actually digging into the series being a distinct minority (what happened around here right before Fates' release being a major example). And could you please stop acting so self-righteous?

Exactly WHO is hyping the game? It was completely out of the blue when it was announced, but now I see far more people saying "OMG QUIT HYPING IT" than people actually, you know, hyping it. It seems that most have learned from Awakening and Fates.

And either we have vastly different perceptions of hate or you're greatly exaggerating; there was a great amount of criticism of Fates following its release, but it was mostly valid and thought out.

The problem with Fates was that IS decided to hype it up so much, treating it like they'd learned from Awakening-- and many of us just wanted to turn back time to "the good ol' days" and went along with it. Fool me once, fool me twice seems to be in full effect now.

At best, you're preaching to the wrong crowd here on this forum; at worst, you're acting very self-righteous.

If I'm wrong, I'm wrong. But I have yet to see any evidence to prove that I'm wrong. Especially since this IS a topic called, "Can Echoes really do it?"

 

Also if you consider my track record of calling things in this series and fandom(Of which thus far, every prediction I've had was correct(Almost as if I'm basing them off of patterns that I've been seeing or something instead of just randomly pulling things out of my ass), I'd honestly give my words quite a bit of weight on how Echoes is going to be received.

 

As for how I personally feel about Echoes is that it's a game that fixes the only issue I had with Gaiden.

Edited February 2, 2017 by Xelon