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5 hours ago, Ice Dragon said:

Niles has good Spd, but his Atk is absolutely pitiful. With a Killer Bow+, he's missing one-hit kills on the Life and Death speedy glass cannons, and he basically relies on Iceberg to deal damage. He can run a decent counter killer set with Quick Riposte and Iceberg, but he really needs Fury to keep himself alive against said speedy glass cannons since he'll be taking 2 hits from them before he can land the kill. However, the fatal flaw of his counter killer build is that he can only use it once before Quick Riposte is broken. He is also completely walled by Litrraven, even without the use of Triangle Adept.

Despite his low Atk, he might be able to make use of a Brave Bow+ since he's really only going to be attacking weapon-triangle-neutral mages and fliers anyways, though he fails to kill both vanilla Tharja and Life and Death Tharja even with Death Blow or Life and Death, which is rather disappointing.

Any ideas for redeeming Niles?

Look bro,

Spoiler

 

I know it,

You know it,

She knows it,

They know it,

Even him, yes Niles, even he knows it:

Niles just stinks ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

 

BUT if you ask me, you basically already said it.

The greatest things about him is his Killer bow and his resistance (his speed is okay too) which are supposed to make him "okay" or "decent" at best. But like you said, that attack stat just makes him fall into oblivion. Since one would only make him useful for fighting mages anyway, I'd say ye olde Ice berg + QR set is obviously a staple.

The A slot is where it gets a little dicey. Let's say "OH, he needs Fury to have Speed, Resistance, and Attack to even be slightly worth a rat's behind" ( I guess the extra defense is helpful too). But to what end? And after one enemy phase hit he loses QR no matter what? Basically you're saying:

Fury > Life and death because the -5 resistance hurts his structure (and the -5 defense makes him nigh deplorable)

But Quick Riposte goes away at like 26 or 25 HP? That gives him 2 hits of Fury before he loses QR. but that also means he won't be able to tank as much mage hits (Especially blade tomes like you said).

Maybe Death Blow 3 would be better. He really only needs the attack anyway, although he doesn't have it on enemy phase.

Attack +3 maybe? Basically gives him what he "needs" on both phases. But if he isn't +Spd he gets gorgl'd by Fury Nino (Pious mage ftw), among other fast tome users.

Stuff like this is why I don't bother doing calcs sometimes

If it's going to be that trivial, then I wouldn't even bother trying to make a bad unit good If anyone wants to criticize me using Oboro, PM me, so we can fight 1v1

So in short:

Quote

Any ideas for redeeming Niles?

None you've already said, but I don't personally think he's worth the time, or the trouble.

Edited by Arcanite
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5 hours ago, Ice Dragon said:

Any ideas for redeeming Niles?

A couple of people have answered this already but I'll give some input. Niles' offensive bases are straight up weaker than Setsuna's, having both a lower Atk and Spd base (25/34 vs 28/37) but he can still run a similar build to her utilizing Brave Bow and Desperation with Iceberg to provide additional output. However, Firesweep Bow can be a good fit for him with the higher base Mt--11 compared to 7--as well as not penalizing his Spd and allowing him to run another B skill. With +Atk and LaD 3 he would hit 45/39 offenses, which isn't bad per se but is still outclassed to a degree.

My $0.02.

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...I'm torn, I've finally got Sharena up to 35 and discovered why she's so loved, but Zephiel is right with her and I don't know which one to promote once they hit 40. Zephiel would be the Sword I need on my Armor team while Sharena is just good all around....decisions...

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3 minutes ago, silverserpent said:

...I'm torn, I've finally got Sharena up to 35 and discovered why she's so loved, but Zephiel is right with her and I don't know which one to promote once they hit 40. Zephiel would be the Sword I need on my Armor team while Sharena is just good all around....decisions...

Sharena, hands down.

Because: Solid unit > Armor Emblem

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6 minutes ago, silverserpent said:

...I'm torn, I've finally got Sharena up to 35 and discovered why she's so loved, but Zephiel is right with her and I don't know which one to promote once they hit 40. Zephiel would be the Sword I need on my Armor team while Sharena is just good all around....decisions...

Seconding @Arcanite. Zephiel will likely be on the rotation only once while Sharena might be on it every three weeks. Both are good units to promote regardless, though Sharena will most likely see more use on future teams.

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6 minutes ago, Astellius said:

My question was 100% ignored.

I got you boo!

On 4/21/2017 at 1:44 PM, Astellius said:

Who do you guys think I should promote? I was thinking I might do Reinhardt, although his nature isn't great (+HP, -Atk). I don't have any 5-star blue tome users, so that would fill a gap in terms of covering options, and I'm also F2P, so it's not like I'm likely to get a better one down the road. I'm also considering Nino (+Spd, -HP), which seems pretty good, and promoting a Camilla as Brave Axe+ fodder to throw on Cherche, who seems like she would be unholy with a one of those. I also have Eliwood.

  Reveal hidden contents

But I already have Rebecca, so do I really need another 5-star with totally busted artwork?

Olivia and Felicia are also under consideration.

There's also Nowi, but everyone should say no to loli dragons.

FREE TO PLAY FTW

Nowi gives you exactly what you need, as she is basically a blue tome user (even though she is kind of slow)

Your Nino has epic potential for Fury shenanigans. 

Camilla for brave ax fodder is something you should wait for when you are "baller" enough to promote people just for weapons and upgrades

Eliwood is really only for Horse Emblem/if you really like him since there are better sword users to use

Olivia and Felicia are a no-no

Edited by Arcanite
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8 minutes ago, Astellius said:

My question was 100% ignored.

Partly my fault---questions tend to be missed when walls of text start flying.

That said: Both Nino and Rein are fine. -Atk Rein is still quite usable, 29 Atk looks bad, until you remember that Dire Thunder has 2 Atk on Brave bows, making it basically 31, =Klein tier, and that Res is usually the dump stat anyway. (+Spd Nino is also good, of course, but Rein's going to be a bonus unit next arena season, so might as well use him now. Not like you can't promote Nino later.)

 

Edited by DehNutCase
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On 4/23/2017 at 9:00 AM, Eridras said:

Between Eldigan and Reinhardt, I've managed to pick up a good core for a Horse Emblem team. I was thinking of building a three-unit team for arena runs, and noticed I had a +Atk, -HP 4* Cecilia. She'd make a perfect third unit, but I'm not sure of how to build her. I initially thought of going the Gronnraven +/Triangle Adept route, since I have all the necessary pieces, and it would only require 20,000 feathers to five-star her, which I would have in a week or so.

However, Gronnblade + also looks very tempting. That build would require 40,000 feathers though, and I'm leery of spending that much on a single unit, especially since I'm not pulling in as many feathers as I used to.  Using plain Gronnblade is not an option, as not having the highest rank weapon would irritate me. 

With all that said, is the extra firepower worth the investment?  I suppose a third option is to go Gronnraven first, then build my way up to Gronnblade.  

Hm. I do think what you have is already solid as is. Reinhardt with Death Blow can off Reds, popular Archers, and some blues. Eldigan is hella tanky and legendary Killing Edge is nothing to scoff at. Give him Dragon Fang and you can watch the world burn. Gronnraven+/TA Cecillia should handle Blues and colorless well (assuming she is Honed or Goaded)

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...Seeing mention of the team involving Eldigan and Reinhardt, as well as discussions of Camus being a potentially very useful Horse Emblem player...

At this rate, an all-Camus team is not only going to be good, it's going to be spectacular.

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@Ice Dragon I'm just spitballing here, but...

Spoiler

On Stahl: I've actually had Stahl on my Arena team for a while now, so...
Stahl is actually decent as he is now, since he's pretty much designed to kill and tank Greens for a cavalry team with his Ruby Sword giving him magnified WTA over them, so if you want to improve him, giving him Swordbreaker would be a decent start to help him combat fairly common swordies with his solid DEF. Beyond that, perhaps give him Fury (he has enough HP to stomach the post-combat damage, and giving a neutral Stahl (3-Star/4-Star/5-Star) 44/45/48 HP | 30/32/34 ATK (becomes 38/40 with the Ruby Sword at 3/4-Stars, and 46 with the Ruby Sword+ at 5-Stars) | 26/27/29 SPD | 29/31/33 DEF | 22/23/25 RES can make him a decent tank with decent offense that's possibly speedy enough to avoid the occasional double without Swordbreaker) or Fortress DEF (Stahl's primary role is Green-killer with Triangle Adept 3 Sword, so he most likely won't miss the 3 ATK too much unless he's fighting swordies, and the extra 5 DEF makes him a more effective wall), Bonfire is probably Stahl's best Special since it gives him (3/4/5-Star) 15/16/17 (14.5/15.5/16.5, but I rounded these up, so it's 14/15/16 if those were supposed to be rounded down) extra damage when it procs, and for his C Skill you should run a Cavalry buff because Stahl should only be run on a Cavalry team.

Stahl can't really do much besides fight Greens without the Cavalry buffs (though I don't think that's really a bad thing, since Reinhardt is one of the best cavalry units and his primary problem is with Greens, so having someone who can deal with them is nice), but with them (and Swordbreaker) he should be able to fight Sword users fairly decently as well as handling Greens like usual.

On Niles:
Poor Niles is a victim of being made to counter two unit types that can easily negate his advantages over them. He can't do much against mages if they're packing a Litrraven and Triangle Adept, and fliers can just run Iote's Shield to neutralize him altogether (though it's worth noting that according to https://rocketmo.github.io/feh-damage-calc/ (assuming I used it right), with his default skillset, +ATK Niles only kills: Bunny Camilla always, Cherche always, regular Camilla unless +SPD, Hinoka unless +SPD, Florina unless +SPD, Est unless +SPD and anything except -DEF, Beruka only if -DEF, and Caeda only if -DEF... so yeah, Niles isn't all that good against fliers to begin with unless you tinker with him. Also with Iote's equipped only -DEF Bunny Camilla dies to him, and if she's running Gronnraven and Triangle Adept 3 she won't die to him even with -DEF) (also, here's some useless information: +ATK Brave Bow+ Death Blow 3 Niles with ATK +1 Sacred Seal, Hone ATK 3 buff and Spur ATK 3 buff (I think this might be the most damage Niles can deal in one attack without a Special proc) still can't kill Gronnraven & Triangle Adept 3/Iote's Shield Bunny Camilla, or Cherche/Michalis/Minerva/Narcian/Subaki with Iote's Shield, although this hypothetical build would kill all fliers without Iote's or Gronnraven... not saying this is a practical build at all, and Klein can achieve this build more easily by virtue of having most of the pieces already when you get him (plus he kills all fliers except for Gronnraven & Triangle Adept/Iote's Shield Bunny Camilla and Iote's Shield Cherche/Minerva/Subaki when he runs the same hypothetical Niles build), so I wouldn't say this is worth it on Niles, it's just food for thought). So, yeah, Niles is at risk of getting fucked over by enemy weapon/skill choice even if you try to fix him...

So, with that in mind, I say Niles is best as Skill Fodder (which he's pretty good for, since he has Iceberg (good for high-RES units as a Bonfire-alike) and Warding Blow 3 (which I'm sure someone wants, possibly the same someone who wants Iceberg) at 4-Stars). I'd love to be proven wrong tho, if anyone has any ideas...

I hope that helped you.

@Astellius I say either promote Nino or Nowi. Nino because that's a really good boon/bane for Nino and she'll be crazy strong if you can give her buffs, Nowi because you should say yes to loli dragons Nowi is really good with a little Skill inheritance (Triangle Adept + Swordbreaker = eating Falchions for breakfast... seriously tho when attacked by +ATK swordies only Alm and Chrom can even deal 20 HP or more to neutral-DEF Nowi with TA3, Lucina does 18, Marth does 15, nobody else even breaks 10, and 16 swordies can't even damage Nowi with TA3; with Triangle Adept 2 vs +ATK swordies, Chrom does the most with 25, followed closely by Alm with 24, Lucina with 22, Marth with 19, nobody else breaks past 10 damage (though Zephiel does 9, and Alfonse also does 9 when attacking thanks to Death Blow 3, and he does break 10 if Folkvangr's Defiant ATK 2 is up... and does 11 :awesome:), and 15 swordies can't even damage Nowi... and in both of these cases, Nowi kills every single sword user on the counterattack, even when they're +RES and have a +4 from Hone RES 3/Rally RES and have a +4 from Spur RES 3. Basically, with Triangle Adept 3 Nowi doesn't have to fear swords, even Falchions don't hurt that much, and with Swordbreaker she one-rounds all swords). To be honest, after running those calcs, I say you should promote Nowi unless you have a Nino team already.

@phineas81707 I wouldn't say that. All-Camus is gonna have a crippling weakness to Greens. It'll liquefy mono-Red teams tho, and should hold its own against teams that lack a Green fairly well.
Now, Reinhardt/Xander/Camus/Gunter on the other hand (you can replace Gunter with any Green with Hone Cavalry, I recommend Frederick), that's gonna be really ridiculous.

Edited by ILikeKirbys
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4 minutes ago, ILikeKirbys said:

I wouldn't say that. All-Camus is gonna have a crippling weakness to Greens. It'll liquefy mono-Red teams tho, and should hold its own against teams that lack a Green fairly well.
Now, Reinhardt/Xander/Camus/Gunter on the other hand (you can replace Gunter with any Green with Hone Cavalry, I recommend Frederick), that's gonna be really ridiculous.

Hm... shame I can't really think of a good green horse Camus. Duessel comes close, but being recruited puts a little damper on his Camus-ness. Maybe if Selena was Green?

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3 minutes ago, phineas81707 said:

Hm... shame I can't really think of a good green horse Camus. Duessel comes close, but being recruited puts a little damper on his Camus-ness. Maybe if Selena was Green?

What do you mean by Duessel comes close to being a green horse Camus?
Also, I thought you meant a team made up of four Camuses. Did you mean something else by all-Camus team?

Edited by ILikeKirbys
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Just now, ILikeKirbys said:

Camus is gonna be Blue. He's in the game already, we just can't use him yet. What do you mean by Duessel comes close to being a green horse Camus?
Also, I thought you meant a team made up of four Camuses. Did you mean something else by all-Camus team?

I was referring to a team made up of entirely archetypical Camus characters- Xander, Reinhardt and Eldigan among them. (This is what happens when you name an archetype after a character and then have a game with everyone in it).

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14 hours ago, MrNight48 said:

Interesting, Seems my team cover more than I thought it would. I should say what lukas and kage are running/plan to have

 

Lukas +attk/-hp

Killer Lance+ (eventually Brave Lance +)

Swap

Sacred Cowl (eventually henry's ignis, henry is still 3 stars atm)

Fortress 3/QR 2/no idea for 3rd slot/ Attack +1

 

Kagero ???/??? (its looking like she is either def screwed or speed screwed. has 19 def and 26 speed at lv 33 >_>'')

Poison Dagger+

Reposition

Reprisal (she is the second who will get moonbow)

Warding Blow (still debating Life and Death, Fury, or Death Blow)/Dagger Breaker (Wings of Mercy or Vantage)/Spur Attk 1 (either S! camila or kage is getting breath of life for more healing. Still debating it)/ Hp +3 for now

Lukas has been a unquestioned beast tank. he can even take a few from mages if I screwed up. Kagero has been pretty great and I haven't even given her the extra boost yet. I see your points on what Tiki can do and will most likely give her fury since I am not a fan of the breaker skills especially since its rare I meet an axe user S! Camilla can't outright 1-2 shot. Will still think about it though.

 

 

Congratulations on what's basically a -HP Lukas that has 43 defense! :P:

If you notice your team is failing to KO things, shove the appropriate Threaten stat in his C-slot.  With his HP bane, I'd put the HP +3 seal on him, and give Kagero either Spd +1 or Atk +1.  His job is to absorb hits. Her job is to kill things.

As for Kagero. . .pretty sure she's not defense-screwed.  She's made of paper, and -Def will have 19 defense at level 40.  Her neutral speed is 32 at level 40, too.  You'll have to get her to level 38 before I can say what she is with any confidence.  If you insist on Breath of Life, I think she's the best choice.  She really doesn't want to be left alone, and she can hide behind Lukas and poke things.

Edited by eclipse
Wow I suck at spelling today
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@DehNutCase @Arcanite @MrSmokestack @ILikeKirbys

Continuing on Niles because after reading those comments, I'm now somewhat more determined to find something this guy can do:

Running [+Atk, -Def], Killer Bow+, Iceberg, and Quick Riposte 3, comparing the effects of Fury 3, here's Niles's match-ups in terms of Quick Riposte (+10 vanilla skills against +10 Niles unless stated otherwise) (relevant wins or losses gained or lost with Fury 3 in bold):

Spoiler

Cannot break Quick Riposte 3 regardless of Fury 3:

  • =Atk Raigh
  • =Atk Sophia
  • =Atk Henry
  • =Atk Leo
  • Odin
  • Olwen
  • =Atk Merric
  • Robin (F)

Breaks Quick Riposte 3 with Fury 3:

  • +Atk Raigh
  • +Atk Sophia
  • +Atk Henry
  • +Atk Leo
  • Ursula
  • +Atk Merric
  • [=Atk, =Spd] Nino
  • =Atk Spring Camilla

Breaks Quick Riposte 3 regardless of Fury 3:

  • Lilina
  • Sanaki
  • Tharja
  • Linde
  • Robin (M)
  • Spring Lucina
  • Reinhardt
  • Julia
  • +Atk Nino
  • +Spd Nino
  • Cecilia
  • +Atk Spring Camilla
  • Sophia (Raudhrraven+, Triangle Adept 3)
  • =Atk Linde (Life and Death 3)
  • Robin (M) (Triangle Adept 3)
  • Reinhardt (Death Blow 3)
  • Nino (Life and Death 3)
  • Nino (Fury 3)
  • Cecilia (Gronnblade+, Life and Death 3)

Kills Niles without Fury 3

  • =Atk Tharja with +3 Atk, +4 Spd
  • Nino with +3 Atk, +4 Spd
  • +Atk Linde (Life and Death 3)
  • Cecilia (Gronnblade+, Life and Death 3) with +6 Atk, +6 Spd

Kills Niles regardless of Fury 3

  • +Atk Tharja with +3 Atk, +4 Spd
  • Nino (Life and Death 3) with +3 Atk, +4 Spd
  • Nino (Fury 3) with +3 Atk, +4 Spd

And in terms of damage to the opponent:

Spoiler

Dead regardless:

  • Lilina
  • Raigh
  • Sanaki
  • Tharja
  • =Def Leo
  • Linde
  • Spring Lucina
  • Olwen
  • Ursula
  • Julia
  • Nino
  • Spring Camilla
  • =Atk Linde (Life and Death 3)
  • Nino (Life and Death 3)
  • Nino (Fury 3)
  • Cecilia (Gronnblade+, Life and Death 3)

Dead with Fury 3:

  • =Def Sophia
  • =Atk Tharja with +3 Atk, +4 Spd
  • +Def Leo
  • =Def Odin
  • Reinhardt
  • Nino with +3 Atk, +4 Spd
  • Robin (F)
  • =Def Cecilia
  • +Atk Linde (Life and Death 3)
  • Reinhardt (Death Blow 3)
  • Cecilia (Gronnblade+, Life and Death 3) with +6 Atk, +6 Spd

Not dead regardless:

  • +Def Sophia
  • Henry
  • +Atk Tharja with +3 Atk, +4 Spd
  • Robin (M)
  • +Def Odin
  • Merric
  • +Def Cecilia
  • Sophia (Raudhrraven+, Triangle Adept 3)
  • Robin (M) (Triangle Adept 3)
  • Nino (Life and Death 3) with +3 Atk, +4 Spd
  • Nino (Fury 3) with +3 Atk, +4 Spd

In particular, the list of enemies that fail to break Quick Riposte 3 without Fury 3 is so small, that Fury 3 isn't noticeably contributing to Quick Riposte 3 being broken. On the other hand, the list of enemies that Niles survives and/or kills with Fury 3 that he fails to survive and/or kill without Fury 3 contains a lot of relevant characters and builds.

@MrSmokestack's Firesweep Bow+ build seems interesting, but he'll still end up failing to kill everything that he would like to be killing, which is a huge bummer since the best use of the Firesweep Bow+ seems to be as a free Desperation for landing one-round kills against enemies with a ranged counterattack.

I think I'm probably going to have to settle with [+Atk, -Def], Killer Bow+, Iceberg, Fury 3, Quick Riposte 3 as Niles's best build. It basically removes one unboosted magic glass cannon from the map, after which he's relegated to chipping melee enemies with an occasional Iceberg burst. Reciprocal Aid would probably be the best assist so that he can both give his depleted HP to a Desperation user and pull his own HP back up to Quick Riposte range for another round if needed.

 

Also, since only ILikeKirbies had a comment on Stahl, anyone else have any opinions about him?

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14 minutes ago, Ice Dragon said:

Also, since only ILikeKirbies had a comment on Stahl, anyone else have any opinions about him?

Stahl's build is reliant on his boon.  HP/Res aren't that notable, so it's down to Atk/Spd/Def.

For Atk, he can either use his own sword, or grab a Silver Sword+ from someone for an impressive 49 Atk (for reference, neutral Atk Eldigan with Fury 3 has 51 Atk).  Spd boon is interesting - he can attempt a really stupid Horse Emblem Life and Death build, for 48 MT backed up with 35 Spd (assuming that he keeps his Ruby Sword), before Hone Cavalry is factored in.  Def boon gives him 33 Def, which is Gunter levels of tanky.  Regardless, he wants Bonfire as a proc, and can use Quick Riposte/Swordbreaker for giggles (or be really stupid with Wings of Mercy/Swap).

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1 minute ago, eclipse said:

Stahl's build is reliant on his boon.  HP/Res aren't that notable, so it's down to Atk/Spd/Def.

For Atk, he can either use his own sword, or grab a Silver Sword+ from someone for an impressive 49 Atk (for reference, neutral Atk Eldigan with Fury 3 has 51 Atk).  Spd boon is interesting - he can attempt a really stupid Horse Emblem Life and Death build, for 48 MT backed up with 35 Spd (assuming that he keeps his Ruby Sword), before Hone Cavalry is factored in.  Def boon gives him 33 Def, which is Gunter levels of tanky.  Regardless, he wants Bonfire as a proc, and can use Quick Riposte/Swordbreaker for giggles (or be really stupid with Wings of Mercy/Swap).

I'm more in a position of "I have a bunch of Stahls with relevant natures, but I don't know which one to pick" since the role of a character with balanced stats depends a lot more on its nature than the role of characters with more clear-cut specialized stats.

I suppose my question can be better phrased as: Assuming I can pick a Stahl of any nature, which ones are good and what are the relevant builds for each good nature?

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1 minute ago, Ice Dragon said:

I'm more in a position of "I have a bunch of Stahls with relevant natures, but I don't know which one to pick" since the role of a character with balanced stats depends a lot more on its nature than the role of characters with more clear-cut specialized stats.

I suppose my question can be better phrased as: Assuming I can pick a Stahl of any nature, which ones are good and what are the relevant builds for each good nature?

That's. . .going to take a while.  The better question to ask is "what roles do I need to fill", since Stahl's pretty flexible.  For example, if he's on a team with Jagen/Priscilla/Cecilia, he'll want a +Def nature to physically tank.

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1 hour ago, eclipse said:

That's. . .going to take a while.  The better question to ask is "what roles do I need to fill", since Stahl's pretty flexible.  For example, if he's on a team with Jagen/Priscilla/Cecilia, he'll want a +Def nature to physically tank.

I'm mostly looking for what roles Stahl can perform well at rather than what roles I need him to fill because I'm not so much trying to fit him into a team as much as I am trying to build a viable Stahl (and determine which, if any, of my duplicates I can toss into the woodchipper with no regrets).

As far as I can tell based on comments here and my own investigation, he has a lot of available builds:

  • Brave Sword+ with Death Blow or Life and Death and Swordbreaker, uses [+Atk].
  • Ruby Sword+ or Silver Sword+ with Fury or Life and Death and Swordbreaker, uses [+Atk] or [+Spd].
  • Killing Edge+ and Bonfire or Wo Dao+ and Moonbow with Swordbreaker or Quick Riposte, uses [+Atk], [+Spd], or [+Def].

I don't really know what roles he's out-classed in or if any particular build does something particularly noteworthy.

Balanced characters are such a pain to work with. Indecisiveness sucks.

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8 hours ago, pianime94 said:

Hm. I do think what you have is already solid as is. Reinhardt with Death Blow can off Reds, popular Archers, and some blues. Eldigan is hella tanky and legendary Killing Edge is nothing to scoff at. Give him Dragon Fang and you can watch the world burn. Gronnraven+/TA Cecillia should handle Blues and colorless well (assuming she is Honed or Goaded)

Thank you!  I'm thinking Cecilia gets fortify to make Eldigan more tanky, so that does sound good. 

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8 hours ago, Ice Dragon said:

I'm more in a position of "I have a bunch of Stahls with relevant natures, but I don't know which one to pick" since the role of a character with balanced stats depends a lot more on its nature than the role of characters with more clear-cut specialized stats.

I suppose my question can be better phrased as: Assuming I can pick a Stahl of any nature, which ones are good and what are the relevant builds for each good nature?

Okay, for +ATK Stahl... (my apologies in advance for any mistakes)
Brave Sword+ with Death Blow and Swordbreaker vs Cain (already has Brave Sword+) with Same Build (making them both -RES for these calcs)
5-Star Stahl has 45 HP | 42 ATK | 21 SPD | 30 DEF | 19 RES
5-Star Cain has 42 HP | 43 ATK | 22 SPD | 27 DEF | 18 RES

Cain is slightly stronger and faster than Stahl (he can quad -SPD Reinhardt, Stahl cannot... I think that's about the only place where the SPD difference matters), but he won't live as long since his HP and DEF are significantly lower.
Vs 5-Star Swordies, Stahl kills all except Draug, =/+DEF Eldigan, Hinata, and Zephiel. If the enemy has Swordbreaker, Stahl kills -DEF Alm, Caeda, -/=DEF Cain, -DEF M!Corrin, -/=DEF Eirika, Eliwood, -/=DEF Fir, Hana, Lon'qu, -/=DEF Lucina, -/=DEF Lyn, -DEF Marth, Navarre, -DEF Ogma, Olivia, -DEF Palla, -DEF Roy, -/=DEF Ryoma, and -DEF Selena, and loses to =/+DEF Alm and =/+DEF Karel.
For comparison, vs 5-Star Swordies, Cain kills all except Draug, +DEF Eldigan and Hinata. If the enemy has Swordbreaker, Cain kills -DEF Alm, Caeda, -/=DEF Cain, -DEF M!Corrin, -/=DEF Eirika, Eliwood, Fir, Hana, -/=DEF Karel, -DEF Laslow, Lon'qu, -/=DEF Lucina, Lyn, -DEF Marth, Navarre, -DEF Ogma, Olivia, -/=DEF Palla, -/=DEF Roy, -/=DEF Ryoma, -DEF Selena, and Zephiel, and loses to +DEF Karel.

So, to compare:
With no Swordbreaker enemies: Cain kills =DEF Eldigan and Zephiel over Stahl.
With Swordbreaker enemies: Cain kills -/=DEF Fir, =DEF Karel, -DEF Laslow, +DEF Lyn, =DEF Palla and =DEF Roy over Stahl, and does not die to =/+DEF Alm or =DEF Karel on the attack while Stahl does.

Alternatively, you mentioned Life and Death 3 as an option over Death Blow, so let's compare Stahl and Cain with that as well:
With LaD3, Stahl has 45 HP | 47 ATK | 26 SPD | 25 DEF | 14 RES
With LaD3, Cain has 42 HP | 48 ATK | 27 SPD | 22 DEF | 13 RES

Vs 5-Star Swordies, Stahl kills all except Draug, =/+DEF Eldigan, Hinata and +DEF Stahl. With Swordbreaker on enemies, Stahl kills -DEF Alm, Caeda, -DEF Cain, -/=DEF Eirika, Eliwood, -/=DEF Fir, Hana, -DEF Karel, -/=DEF Lon'qu, -/=DEF Lucina, -/=DEF Lyn, -DEF Marth, Navarre, -/=DEF Olivia, -DEF Palla, -DEF Roy, -DEF Ryoma, and Zephiel, and loses to M!Corrin, +DEF Fir, =/+DEF Karel, +DEF Lucina, and =/+DEF Ryoma.
For comparison, vs 5-Star Swordies, Cain kills all except Draug, +DEF Eldigan and Hinata. With Swordbreaker on enemies, Cain kills -DEF Alm, Caeda, -/=DEF Cain, -DEF M!Corrin, -/=DEF Eirika, Eliwood, Fir, Hana, -/=DEF Karel, -DEF Laslow, Lon'qu, -/=DEF Lucina, Lyn, -DEF Marth, Navarre, -DEF Ogma, Olivia, -/=DEF Palla, -/=DEF Roy, -/=DEF Ryoma, -DEF Selena, and Zephiel, and loses to +DEF Karel.

So, to compare:
With no Swordbreaker enemies: Cain kills =DEF Eldigan and +DEF Stahl over Stahl.
With Swordbreaker enemies: Cain kills =DEF Cain, +DEF Fir, =DEF Karel, -DEF Laslow, +DEF Lon'qu, +DEF Lyn, =DEF Ogma, +DEF Olivia, =DEF Palla, =DEF Roy, =DEF Royma, and -DEF Selena over Stahl, and does not die to M!Corrin, +DEF Fir, =DEF Karel, +DEF Lucina, or =/+DEF Ryoma on the attack while Stahl does.

Overall, Cain is just better than Stahl in both builds, so if you have a Cain you should just give these skills to him. Still, if you never pull a Cain, Stahl can do a serviceable job as Cain-lite with these builds.

For the Ruby Sword+ build you mentioned, for +ATK Stahl vs 5-Star Swordies:
With +ATK, Stahl kills -DEF Alm, Caeda, -DEF Cain, -DEF M!Corrin, -/=DEF Eirika, Eliwood, Fir, Hana, -/=DEF Karel, -DEF Laslow, Lon'qu, -/=DEF Lucina, Lyn, -DEF Marth, Navarre, -DEF Ogma, Olivia, -/=DEF Palla, -/=DEF Roy, -/=DEF Ryoma, and -DEF Selena.
With +SPD, Stahl kills Caeda, -DEF Eirika, Eliwood, -/=DEF Fir, Hana, -DEF Karel, -/=DEF Lon'qu, -DEF Lucina, -/=DEF Lyn, -DEF Marth, Navarre, -/=DEF Olivia, -DEF Palla, -DEF Roy, and -DEF Ryoma.
And vs 5-Star Greens:
No Green can kill Stahl with this build.

IMO This is Stahl's best build right here. +ATK kills more swords, but +SPD kills more Greens, so I say +SPD should be your Stahl of choice (I'm willing to bet you have a Reinhardt/Sully/Abel to kill Swords, so +SPD Stahl would be best for you since that one kills more Greens and neither +ATK nor +SPD loses to any Swords).
I'd be willing to bet Cain could run this set more effectively too, since he's slightly stronger and faster than Stahl, but Stahl can run this more easily since he already has a Ruby Sword when you get him.

As for your final question, I say you should avoid -ATK/-SPD/-DEF Stahls, and shoot for +HP/+ATK/+SPD Stahls, so the ideal one would possibly be something like:
+SPD/-RES (Gives Stahl 30 SPD, which can't be replicated with Fury since that only gives 3 SPD (so neutral-SPD Stahl ends up with 29 after Fury) while being +SPD gives Stahl a 4-point advantage over =SPD: Stahl's RES is already crap anyway, and lowering it won't make him die to any Greens besides buffed Gronnblade-users who he probably already dies to, while the extra SPD most likely lets Stahl survive who could otherwise double him)
And use the Ruby Sword+/Fury/Swordbreaker build, since that's a pretty good build.

I dunno if I'm actually right about any of this, I just felt I should try to respond...

Getting off of Stahl for a bit, here's a question regarding Cain (since I'm training mine up right now):
My 4-Star Cain is +SPD/-HP. Should I give him a Silver Sword, or let him keep his Brave Sword? He has pretty balanced stats overall, and 32 SPD without the Brave Sword could be nice... but at the same time, he could get 30 SPD with the Brave if I threw Fury at him, so maybe I should let him keep the Brave and throw him Fury... but if I give him the Silver and Darting Blow he'd reach 38 SPD when attacking and double quite a few enemies anyway... But I might be able to get quad-hits if I gave Cain Hone Cavalry, Darting Blow and Desperation with his Brave Sword since he'd reach 39 SPD... but Silver Sword Cain can reach 38 SPD with just Hone Cavalry, which is only slightly lower and still protects him from getting doubled most of the time, and I'd be running Cain on my cavalry team so he'd be getting this buff anway... but Brave Sword Cain wouldn't get doubled that often with Hone Cavalry, and I'm running Reinhardt so Brave Cain would have 37 SPD if he was near Rein... but Silver Cain would have 42 SPD in the same situation... damn it, I can't decide...

7 hours ago, Ice Dragon said:

Balanced characters are such a pain to work with. Indecisiveness sucks.

I agree with this sentiment. I agree so much right now.

Edited by ILikeKirbys
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Thanks @Arcanite, @DehNutCase, @MrSmokestack, and @ILikeKirbys, I went ahead and promoted Reinhardt. I also have a 4-star Klein (-Atk), so I'll probably axe him for Death Blow fodder, which would make Reinhardt pretty savage. Sound like a good idea?

With respect to Nowi, her nature is +HP -Spd, so the inverse of what was recommended. Since Characters I Like > Objectively Good Characters > Characters I Don't Like, Nowi's not likely going to be promoted anytime soon.

I'll probably promote Nino next, or Cecilia. Cecilia with a Gronnblade tome on a Horse Emblem team would be devastating. I have Gunter and Jagen to provide Hone & Fortify Cavalry.

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