DehNutCase Posted June 24, 2017 Share Posted June 24, 2017 Has anyone seen a team with a 'lead' that's not actually present in the defense team yet? (My guess is that the 'lead' is actually the 'lead' of the team rather than the first character, but I don't actually pay enough attention to the teams I've been fighting to rule out the other possibility.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Junkhead Posted June 24, 2017 Share Posted June 24, 2017 44 minutes ago, DehNutCase said: Reinhardt Emblem is a mono-color team. Edit: A heavy-blade, dragon fang, -blade tome build would OHKO Triangle Adept Julia, so, unless you're unfortunate enough to run into a team with 3 TA-3 Julia, the team doesn't lose---Rein's bulky enough to survive a hit from TA3 Julia, if only barely, so it's not too hard to make sure the special procs happens during his fight with her. (the HB, DF, -blade build is better done by Olwen, though, because she has better speed and worse attack, making it easier to charge the special. Rein OHKOs too much to make a one round max-charge viable.) That said, the team, while probably one of the best teams, is a bit too 'memy' to be fully optimal. Practically speaking, you'd usually just pack a single Leo to take care of people who run TA3 greens. By 'memy" I take it you mean unrealistic... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DehNutCase Posted June 24, 2017 Share Posted June 24, 2017 (edited) 28 minutes ago, Soul~! said: By 'memy" I take it you mean unrealistic... I mean: More for style points than for optimization. For similar cost, 3 Reins + Leo would be far superior since you don't have to worry nearly as much about TA-3 greens (which, admittedly, Rein doesn't worry too much about to begin with, due to his absurd offenses). The cost is actually relatively cheap in terms of strong teams: Close Counter and Heavy Blade are expensive, but Reinhardt copies, who don't have to be optimal---you only need 1 Rein out of the group with the right nature to cover the edge cases that need +Atk, +Spd, or need to not be -hp/def/res (because of needing to tank a single hit from someone)---aren't, 4* base is rare, but not nearly as much as 5* only, especially considering that he's been on 3 separate banners. Heavy blade isn't even needed if you run Leo to cover TA-3 greens, anyway, and you don't really need more than 1 Rein with the Close-counter set in a team. A single 5* +3 unit with optimal build would cost almost as much as Reinhardt emblem. (This is because, unlike most 5*s, Rein has a exceedingly good default weapon---being comparable to -blade tomes isn't a joke, as well as the fact that he can run very cheap A-slot skills.) Edit: Make no mistake, though, Reinhardt emblem might be more 'style' than 'optimal,' but it's crazy optimal because you're running 4 copies of the best unit in the game. Edited June 24, 2017 by DehNutCase Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MaskedAmpharos Posted June 24, 2017 Share Posted June 24, 2017 5 hours ago, DehNutCase said: Edit: Make no mistake, though, Reinhardt emblem might be more 'style' than 'optimal,' but it's crazy optimal because you're running 4 copies of the best unit in the game. Throwback to the good ol days when Takumi Emblem was the "ideal" defense team Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rezzy Posted June 24, 2017 Share Posted June 24, 2017 If you have Firesweep Lance, does Brash Assault Trigger if you attack someone in melee? Normally, they could counter if you didn't have the Firesweep. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcsilas Posted June 24, 2017 Share Posted June 24, 2017 So I pulled a second Lucius at 4 star, and is +Spd/-Atk. Trouble is, I already have a 5 star Lucius who is +HP/-Spd. Is it a better idea to get rid of my 5 star and merge him with my 4 star? I think even at 5 star a -Spd Lucius loses more battles? (Although the added total HP means he heals better with Martyr I guess). I guess if he has the 5 star skills, then the 4 star Lucius is pretty much as good as the 5 star...? I guess I just wanted a final confirmation before merging, since I'm f2p and the thought of getting rid of a 5 star makes me uneasy but I need barracks space. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vaximillian Posted June 24, 2017 Share Posted June 24, 2017 (edited) 10 minutes ago, Rezzy said: If you have Firesweep Lance, does Brash Assault Trigger if you attack someone in melee? Normally, they could counter if you didn't have the Firesweep. Firesweep doesn’t trigger Brash Assault. They can’t counter, Brash Assault can’t activate. Edited June 24, 2017 by Vaximillian Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rezzy Posted June 24, 2017 Share Posted June 24, 2017 20 minutes ago, Vaximillian said: Firesweep doesn’t trigger Brash Assault. They can’t counter, Brash Assault can’t activate. I wondered if that got overlooked in the programming, well I guess Brash Assault still sucks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XRay Posted June 24, 2017 Share Posted June 24, 2017 1 hour ago, mcsilas said: So I pulled a second Lucius at 4 star, and is +Spd/-Atk. Trouble is, I already have a 5 star Lucius who is +HP/-Spd. Is it a better idea to get rid of my 5 star and merge him with my 4 star? I think even at 5 star a -Spd Lucius loses more battles? (Although the added total HP means he heals better with Martyr I guess). I guess if he has the 5 star skills, then the 4 star Lucius is pretty much as good as the 5 star...? I guess I just wanted a final confirmation before merging, since I'm f2p and the thought of getting rid of a 5 star makes me uneasy but I need barracks space. I would not merge a five star into a lower star. Getting the Feathers is better than a small increase in stats that will be lost once the unit promotes to five star. In my opinion, Martyr is the worst healing Assist, so I would not learn or use it; Rehabilitate is much better. His five star skill is HP+5, and it is not worth learning either. Fortress Def 3, Def +3, and Sped +3 are better in my opinion. If you want Lucius to be an offensive unit, I would only use natures with +Atk or +Spd, and -HP, -Def, or -Res. If you want Lucius to be a good healer, -Atk is his best bane. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Junkhead Posted June 24, 2017 Share Posted June 24, 2017 7 hours ago, DehNutCase said: I mean: More for style points than for optimization. For similar cost, 3 Reins + Leo would be far superior since you don't have to worry nearly as much about TA-3 greens (which, admittedly, Rein doesn't worry too much about to begin with, due to his absurd offenses). The cost is actually relatively cheap in terms of strong teams: Close Counter and Heavy Blade are expensive, but Reinhardt copies, who don't have to be optimal---you only need 1 Rein out of the group with the right nature to cover the edge cases that need +Atk, +Spd, or need to not be -hp/def/res (because of needing to tank a single hit from someone)---aren't, 4* base is rare, but not nearly as much as 5* only, especially considering that he's been on 3 separate banners. Heavy blade isn't even needed if you run Leo to cover TA-3 greens, anyway, and you don't really need more than 1 Rein with the Close-counter set in a team. A single 5* +3 unit with optimal build would cost almost as much as Reinhardt emblem. (This is because, unlike most 5*s, Rein has a exceedingly good default weapon---being comparable to -blade tomes isn't a joke, as well as the fact that he can run very cheap A-slot skills.) Edit: Make no mistake, though, Reinhardt emblem might be more 'style' than 'optimal,' but it's crazy optimal because you're running 4 copies of the best unit in the game. oh, completely forgot dude had a *4 availability. That actually makes it, you know, realistic. While I can agree units shouldn't be fully penalised for opportunity costs (say, in terms of certain skills), there ought to be a line drawn somewhere- at least for the sake of giving actual advice. For hypothetical debates, just go ahead. Why not. Like, I once asked what would be the best (aka, effecient and actually realistic) way to raise SP on a lvl.40 unit and got a "just +10 them". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DehNutCase Posted June 24, 2017 Share Posted June 24, 2017 (edited) 32 minutes ago, Soul~! said: Like, I once asked what would be the best (aka, effecient and actually realistic) way to raise SP on a lvl.40 unit and got a "just +10 them". While that's a joke answer, a question on 'what's the most efficient way to get SP' typically won't get much useful answers. This is because the most efficient way is also the most obvious: You have to just run Training Stratum for a billion years. Tempest changed that so we can actually say something like 'For the Horde hoard stamina potions for tempest,' but before that the only correct answer was trivial---not worth the effort of typing up a reply. It's the same reason I never respond to people talking about Setsuna sets---she's just so out-classed and I've typed so much on how bad she is already. That doesn't mean I don't use chances to make jabs at how bad she is, though. 32 minutes ago, Soul~! said: oh, completely forgot dude had a *4 availability. That actually makes it, you know, realistic. While I can agree units shouldn't be fully penalised for opportunity costs (say, in terms of certain skills), there ought to be a line drawn somewhere- at least for the sake of giving actual advice. For hypothetical debates, just go ahead. Why not. At this point, I think even F2P had a good chance of getting all the pieces necessary for any particular team they wanted to build---we should've gotten around, say, a thousand free orbs by now, and that's more than enough to guarantee a full team of focus units. I probably could've had 4 Reinhardts by now, for example, if I actually valued Reinhardt Emblem that much---I don't, because, like you mentioned, the investment required is damn high. Yeah, the return is amazing, but there are lots of things that give 'decent' returns while being far cheaper. In fact, we can probably give estimated costs for team builds by just throwing math at the problem: You can calculate the average amount of orbs to pull all needed units for a given team based on: No relevant banner, regular banner with the needed units, and things like Hero Fest banner with increased rates. In that respect, Reinhardt Emblem probably rates at the ~1k orbs level, expensive as all hell, but not actually too impossible, all things considered. Edited June 24, 2017 by DehNutCase Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vaximillian Posted June 24, 2017 Share Posted June 24, 2017 1 minute ago, DehNutCase said: 1) 'horde stamina potions for tempest,' 2) That doesn't mean I don't use chances to make jabs at how bad she is, though. 1) *hoard 2) No one does 0×4 like GastonSetsuna! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DehNutCase Posted June 24, 2017 Share Posted June 24, 2017 Just now, Vaximillian said: 1) *hoard 2) No one does 0×4 like GastonSetsuna! I'm pretty sure it's "For the Horde" not "For the Hoard." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vaximillian Posted June 24, 2017 Share Posted June 24, 2017 1 minute ago, DehNutCase said: I'm pretty sure it's "For the Horde" not "For the Hoard." Definatly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DehNutCase Posted June 24, 2017 Share Posted June 24, 2017 (edited) Off-topic: If Takumi didn't exist, Virion probably has the best spread for Close Counter, at least amongst archers. 31/31 offenses, 46/26 bulk, this guy is basically cheating versus physical units. 46/26 is good bulk even for a melee. He explodes if mages touches him, but he also hits Def, the weaker defensive stat for mages. Edited June 24, 2017 by DehNutCase Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Junkhead Posted June 24, 2017 Share Posted June 24, 2017 22 minutes ago, DehNutCase said: While that's a joke answer, a question on 'what's the most efficient way to get SP' typically won't get much useful answers. This is because the most efficient way is also the most obvious: You have to just run Training Stratum for a billion years. Tempest changed that so we can actually say something like 'For the Horde hoard stamina potions for tempest,' but before that the only correct answer was trivial---not worth the effort of typing up a reply. It's the same reason I never respond to people talking about Setsuna sets---she's just so out-classed and I've typed so much on how bad she is already. That doesn't mean I don't use chances to make jabs at how bad she is, though. I did kind of ask that when I was super noob-ish. Sure didn't expect 1-3 SP per kill to be the solution. The Trials definitely changed that, where I went from "can only afford certain skills to "hawkeye when the hell will you cap sp". They gain 3 SP on the higher stratums per kill, so it wasn't even that bad once I got into the habit. Setsuna? You mean Assassin Bow? 22 minutes ago, DehNutCase said: At this point, I think even F2P had a good chance of getting all the pieces necessary for any particular team they wanted to build---we should've gotten around, say, a thousand free orbs by now, and that's more than enough to guarantee a full team of focus units. I probably could've had 4 Reinhardts by now, for example, if I actually valued Reinhardt Emblem that much---I don't, because, like you mentioned, the investment required is damn high. Yeah, the return is amazing, but there are lots of things that give 'decent' returns while being far cheaper. In fact, we can probably give estimated costs for team builds by just throwing math at the problem: You can calculate the average amount of orbs to pull all needed units for a given team based on: No relevant banner, regular banner with the needed units, and things like Hero Fest banner with increased rates. In that respect, Reinhardt Emblem probably rates at the ~1k orbs level, expensive as all hell, but not actually too impossible, all things considered. I want to be against the wordding "F2P" and "P2W", but I can see how it increases their odds. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ice Dragon Posted June 24, 2017 Share Posted June 24, 2017 14 hours ago, Soul~! said: Why in the fuck would make a monocolor team? I assume you mean for an arena defense team. The reason you run a mono-color defense team is because it's one of the team compositions that give balanced offense teams a hard time. The goal of this particular team composition is to be able to brute force their way through the opponent's counter. Many players surrender immediately at that point in order to start a new deathless streak, and even if they don't, there's still the high chance that they'll wipe now that they no longer have weapon triangle advantage. Remember that a defense team does not need to win every one of its matches, just one. In particular, I find green to be the best mono-color team. A mono-color team needs to be able to break through the one or two units on the opponent's team that can counter it, and red is the color least likely to run Triangle Adept due to the most common red units already having good-enough match-ups against green. Furthermore, the meta has shifted towards blue, reducing the chance that a player uses more than one red unit on their team. For example, my current team is +10 Hinoka [+Atk, -HP] (vanilla) (bonus hero)+0 Cherche [+Atk, -Res] (Brave Axe+, Reposition, Death Blow 3, Hone Fliers, S Fortify Res 1)+6 Spring Camilla [+Spd, -Res] (Gronnblade+, Reposition, Draconic Aura, Fury 3, G Tomebreaker 3, Hone Fliers)+8 Minerva [+Spd, -Res] (Hauteclere, Reposition, Bonfire, Fury 3, Drag Back, Hone Fliers, Quickened Pulse) which is designed to power through common red units like Ike, Xander, and Ryoma despite weapon triangle disadvantage. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Junkhead Posted June 24, 2017 Share Posted June 24, 2017 How in the world did you get so many copies of 5*s... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vaximillian Posted June 24, 2017 Share Posted June 24, 2017 1 minute ago, Soul~! said: How in the world did you get so many copies of 5*s... dollahz Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ice Dragon Posted June 24, 2017 Share Posted June 24, 2017 1 minute ago, Soul~! said: How in the world did you get so many copies of 5*s... I have a job and no other hobbies that eat significant amounts of money. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Junkhead Posted June 24, 2017 Share Posted June 24, 2017 I should get one of those. That sad moment when a celphone game motivates you to get a job. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zeo Posted June 24, 2017 Share Posted June 24, 2017 (edited) 1 hour ago, Soul~! said: I should get one of those. That sad moment when a celphone game motivates you to get a job. Me too. That sad moment when you've blown 20 dollars on a cellphone game before and regretted it but still want to do it again for a different one. Edited June 24, 2017 by Zeo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Junkhead Posted June 24, 2017 Share Posted June 24, 2017 On a more serious note, I don't think I'd see myself spending a lot of money of it- if even. Somewhat loses the fun if I were to have multiple *5s and just owe it to my cash. Not against others doing just it. Just me, personally. If anything, I'd currently buy maybe 20 Orbs to aid me on getting Katarina. Spoken like someone who's never done it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
r_n Posted June 25, 2017 Share Posted June 25, 2017 Just to be sure, Goad Skills don't stack with each other, right? As in, if I had 2 units with goad armor the surrounding units would only get one goad boost? I did try to check the wiki before hand but I didn't see any specifics listed on the goad ____ pages or the damage calcs Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrSmokestack Posted June 25, 2017 Share Posted June 25, 2017 2 minutes ago, r_n said: Just to be sure, Goad Skills don't stack with each other, right? As in, if I had 2 units with goad armor the surrounding units would only get one goad boost? I did try to check the wiki before hand but I didn't see any specifics listed on the goad ____ pages or the damage calcs All Goads and Spurs stack. The only limitation is the number of units you can field to stack their effects. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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