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9 hours ago, Zeo said:

@mcsilas @mampfoid @Alexmender @NegativeExponents- @Ice Dragon @XRay @Astellius @Hawk King

Hey, remember Bartre's +ATK/-RES or +SPD/-HP problem? Well, the sins problems of the father are visited upon the children.

Fir's got the same issue. I've got her  *4 supermerged to +9 and I can go +ATK/-RES or +SPD/-HP.

+ATK/-RES gives her a much needed offensive boost up to 30/38 for offense which is decent. At the cost however of some of her heralded RES leaving her at a paltry 30 RES.

+SPD/-HP on the other hand, frees up her RES to a superior 33, boosts her SPD to 37 which is a massive 41 natural SPD, but her ATK takes a nosedive down to 27. 27/41 offenses are pretty pitiful in my opinion. Both Wo Dao and Slaying effect are stellar but the lack of killing power hurts.

Which nature is better? Especially factoring in that the upcoming update gets rid of banes.

Fir just about needs the extra attack. It’s no fun doubling enemies if you all she deals are big fat 0s so definitely go for the +ATK one, especially because her RES bane won’t be an issue soon enough.

While Fir’s SPD may not be considered as great as it once was, it is by no means terrible. Her speed can easily be patched up with a little team support.

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@mampfoid @mcsilas @Zeo

Ok so I have been wanting to utilize Starfish for something and I was hoping to get some ideas as to who would use it best and what their build should be.

My idea is building a Legault with it since he has the Spd to take advantage of desperation, has a decent Atk stat, and doesn’t already have a prf and therefore seems like the perfect candidate for it but I want some opinions before I commit to it.

Spoiler

MJeFAKs.jpg

This is the build I was thinking of going for. I don’t have everything to build it at this very moment but I’ll think of it as a long term project.

I’m not sure how effective it would be or what I should change to improve it.

Its purpose is to provide some team support in the way of Spd buffing/debuffing while being able to proc Moonbow consistently and hold his own in a fight.

One problem with this is that I feel like Moonbow by itself doesn’t provide that much damage even if I do proc it consistently so I was thinking of maybe replacing Moonbow and Flashing Blade for another special (Luna?) and have him carry Brazen Atk/Res instead which would synergize with Starfish and provide an overall damage boost.

Another thing is his IVs. Would Spd be the best choice or would Atk be better? I feel like Spd would be good to maximize the amount of doubles he’s able to get, especially while waiting for a Fallen Celica focus to nab that Chill Spd, but then again, I rarely run into units with more than 45 Spd (units need 46 Spd or more to avoid Legault’s doubles once he gets Chill Spd) so maybe having his offenses be 49/43 with a +Atk one might be better.

Outside from that, any thoughts on whether it’s worth building? Maybe some alternate builds that might make use of Starfish with either Legault or some other characters?

 

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7 hours ago, Baldrick said:

 And that depends on what enemies you deploy her against. If you want her to face a variety of enemies it’s good to patch up her weaknesses, but even with +atk, Fir is still pretty weak, so I’d rather use a sword unit that’s stronger and also has “good enough” speed. I think Fir is best as a speed specialist who can double even the fastest enemies.

If you want a unit to double the fastest performance units, I do not think Fir is the unit to do that since she lacks both the Spd and Atk. Units like Karla and Mia with performance builds are nearly impossible for Fir to double. +Spd Fir can reach 39 Spd, while Karla's and Mia's neutral Spd is 40. Once you factor in Assets, Karla and Mia with +Spd (44/43 Spd) becomes practically impossible for Fir to double even if you give Fir 0/7/0/0 (assuming everyone runs the same build with Atk/Spd Solo and Spd stacks). For Fir to double those units, Fir will need triple Drives or Joint Hone Spd with a Drive.

2 hours ago, NegativeExponents- said:

Another thing is his IVs. Would Spd be the best choice or would Atk be better? I feel like Spd would be good to maximize the amount of doubles he’s able to get, especially while waiting for a Fallen Celica focus to nab that Chill Spd, but then again, I rarely run into units with more than 45 Spd (units need 46 Spd or more to avoid Legault’s doubles once he gets Chill Spd) so maybe having his offenses be 49/43 with a +Atk one might be better.

I would go with +Atk. Unless the enemy team runs nothing but Spd units, Chill Spd basically buffs Legault's Spd by +7 against the fastest unit, and that is all you really need since the rest of the team are usually much easier to double.

Without Chill Spd though, I would go with +Spd.

Edited by XRay
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6 hours ago, XRay said:

If you want a unit to double the fastest performance units, I do not think Fir is the unit to do that since she lacks both the Spd and Atk. Units like Karla and Mia with performance builds are nearly impossible for Fir to double. +Spd Fir can reach 39 Spd, while Karla's and Mia's neutral Spd is 40. Once you factor in Assets, Karla and Mia with +Spd (44/43 Spd) becomes practically impossible for Fir to double even if you give Fir 0/7/0/0 (assuming everyone runs the same build with Atk/Spd Solo and Spd stacks). For Fir to double those units, Fir will need triple Drives or Joint Hone Spd with a Drive.

Granted, she’s a rare unit, but I always run Ylgr to inflict/bait the opponent’s Chill spd, and manipulate the AI to minimise how much they can speed stack. (FTR I haven’t actually built Fir, I use Shanna for this role). Granted, Mia/Karla would be easier to use if you don’t care about activating consecutive specials.

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On 1/4/2019 at 9:31 PM, Zeo said:

@mcsilas @mampfoid @Alexmender @NegativeExponents- @Ice Dragon @XRay @Astellius @Hawk King

Hey, remember Bartre's +ATK/-RES or +SPD/-HP problem? Well, the sins problems of the father are visited upon the children.

Fir's got the same issue. I've got her  *4 supermerged to +9 and I can go +ATK/-RES or +SPD/-HP.

+ATK/-RES gives her a much needed offensive boost up to 30/38 for offense which is decent. At the cost however of some of her heralded RES leaving her at a paltry 30 RES.

+SPD/-HP on the other hand, frees up her RES to a superior 33, boosts her SPD to 37 which is a massive 41 natural SPD, but her ATK takes a nosedive down to 27. 27/41 offenses are pretty pitiful in my opinion. Both Wo Dao and Slaying effect are stellar but the lack of killing power hurts.

Which nature is better? Especially factoring in that the upcoming update gets rid of banes.

Given the pending update, you can essentially just ignore the bane, simplifying the choice to just that between +Atk and +Spd for the boon. For my 5*+10 Fir, I went with +Atk over +Spd. Without the Atk boon, she'll be pretty much totally dependent upon specials to do damage. She really appreciates a bit more attack, moreso, in my opinion, than speed. So the Atk boon is what I recommend.

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4 hours ago, DefyingFates said:

Is there a way to find out which stats will be boosted by the Merge Units change for neutral IV units, specifically the Heroic Grail ones (and specifically specifically Lyon)? Thanks in advance!

They have same rules as other units. The first merge will boost the highest  and second highest level 1 stat, the second merge will boost the third and fourth highest stats, and so on.

Here is more information on the subject.

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On 1/3/2019 at 7:29 AM, mcsilas said:

Blue Lyn likes Blarowl over Blue Gift anyway.

But if you want Juicy Wave and have access to Bold Fighter, it could be a fun, guaranteed double with faster special charge.

Okay, so would Blue Lyn want Juicy Wave over Blarowl?

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45 minutes ago, Fire Emblem Fan said:

Okay, so would Blue Lyn want Juicy Wave over Blarowl?

It is less of what LA!Lyn is optimized for and more of what you want her to do, since LA!Lyn can do both phases. If you need her as an Enemy Phase unit, Owl-Bond/Close Counter is the way to go. If you want to use her as a nuke, you can do Juicy Wave-Bold Fighter, and ideally with Armor March so she has the mobility to effectively reach her targets in time.

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6 hours ago, DefyingFates said:

Is there a way to find out which stats will be boosted by the Merge Units change for neutral IV units, specifically the Heroic Grail ones (and specifically specifically Lyon)? Thanks in advance!

@XRay Unless I'm mistaken, he meant the 3 stats that get added in addition to the normal 2 points from the merge.

@DefyingFates From what we've seen from the screenshots, it appears to be the unit's 3 highest stats at level 1. Ties are broken top to bottom as displayed in the stat screen (HP first, then Atk, etc.).

For Lyon, that would be HP, Atk, and Res.

 

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21 hours ago, NegativeExponents- said:

Ok so I have been wanting to utilize Starfish for something and I was hoping to get some ideas as to who would use it best and what their build should be.

My idea is building a Legault with it since he has the Spd to take advantage of desperation, has a decent Atk stat, and doesn’t already have a prf and therefore seems like the perfect candidate for it but I want some opinions before I commit to it.

I'm no Dagger expert, but I do like Legault and the Desperation weapons. They are nice to run Desperation and ER/WoM at the same time,  but it's more of a fun thing for TTs/CC. 

It looks like you would give up performance to run Chill SPD on him, while you could run Chill SPD on a (supporty) team member. 

I don't think many units/builds want starfish, so you could go with the constellation that promises most fun. No idea for the nature though. 

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Who seems like a better unit to get to 5* +10 merge, Soleil or Lilina?

~Soleil, as she is now, is +Atk -Res +5, and wields Armorsmasher+Atk, Reposition, Growing Wind, Swift Sparrow 2, Chill Spd 3 (though I'm thinking of replacing it with Chill Def 3), and Hone Atk (would replace with Atk Tactic 3). No confirmed Seal yet, probably Flashing Blade 3 to get Growing Wind up to speed as fast as possible, though a cheaper alternative would be Drive Atk 2. She would be there as raw power alongside Ophelia, though to a slightly lesser extent, and would primarily take out Armor units quickly.

~Lilina, right now, is +Atk -Spd +1 (I have -Def in the lineups, no worries) and wields Forblaze Special refine, Draw Back, Glimmer, Death Blow 3, Bowbreaker (would definitely replace with a 240 SP skill, not sure which one), and Spur Atk 3 (would replace with something else). Seal not confirmed, maybe Heavy Blade to get Glimmer immediately, and would give her Special Spiral so she'd have perma-Glimmer. She'd pretty much be a Red Ophelia, minus Uber-Blazing Light of course.

Soleil has the advantage of specifically target Armor units, who I'd assume will overpopulate the higher tiers of Arena battles, but Lilina helps Ophelia by getting Blazing Light charged, allowing for the special to trigger if another Mage is present (though I wouldn't be opposed to using Luna or Draconic Aura on Ophelia if I had to). It does run the risk of relying solely on Ophelia though, as opposed to Soleil being able to target Armors that even Ophelia couldn't touch easily.

Also to consider is that I only need 5 Soleils to get +10, which I have, while Lilina I'd need 9 copies of, which I only have 4 of counting the copy who has +Atk -Def lined up for promotion, though I'm worried most about the final result right now.

I wish I could just look up the answer to these kinds of questions, but I legit do not know the environment of 3 5* +10 units, let alone two.

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4 hours ago, Ice Dragon said:

@XRay Unless I'm mistaken, he meant the 3 stats that get added in addition to the normal 2 points from the merge.

@DefyingFates From what we've seen from the screenshots, it appears to be the unit's 3 highest stats at level 1. Ties are broken top to bottom as displayed in the stat screen (HP first, then Atk, etc.).

For Lyon, that would be HP, Atk, and Res.

 

Thanks!

The +HP is a bit of a bummer, but Atk and Res sound great for him!

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9 hours ago, XRay said:

It is less of what LA!Lyn is optimized for and more of what you want her to do, since LA!Lyn can do both phases. If you need her as an Enemy Phase unit, Owl-Bond/Close Counter is the way to go. If you want to use her as a nuke, you can do Juicy Wave-Bold Fighter, and ideally with Armor March so she has the mobility to effectively reach her targets in time.

She has both Close Counter and Bold Fighter. 

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5 hours ago, Xenomata said:

Soleil has the advantage of specifically target Armor units, who I'd assume will overpopulate the higher tiers of Arena battles, but Lilina helps Ophelia by getting Blazing Light charged, allowing for the special to trigger if another Mage is present (though I wouldn't be opposed to using Luna or Draconic Aura on Ophelia if I had to). It does run the risk of relying solely on Ophelia though, as opposed to Soleil being able to target Armors that even Ophelia couldn't touch easily.

I do not recommend running performance builds for Arena except on bonus units unless you do not care about ranking. You want your core team to be cheerleaders with relatively shitty killing power (although not to the point of being complete noodle arms hitting zeroes) so they can feed your bonus unit kills. I recommend having at least one Firesweep nuke so you can easily weaken enemy units safely.

If you plan to use Soleil in higher score ranges, I recommend swapping her Weapon back to Firesweep Sword and run dual Poison Strike for extra non lethal damage. Galeforce is also good for scoring, extra mobility, and it gives you the choice of not applying more damage compared to Aether and Blue Flame by simply not initiating again.

5 hours ago, Xenomata said:

Who seems like a better unit to get to 5* +10 merge, Soleil or Lilina?

For Arena, I would go with Soleil due to scoring higher. For Aether Raids, I would go with Lilina for ease of use.

26 minutes ago, Fire Emblem Fan said:

She has both Close Counter and Bold Fighter. 

You might as well first try a dual phase build with her then and see in which phase you use her more often in. You may even prefer the dual phase build, although I am not sure if she is as good at dual phasing as melee armors are.

(Any Weapon)
Reposition — Swap
Moonbow
Close Counter
Bold Fighter
Armor March
Quick Riposte

She already got most of those skills in the above build, so she just needs Moonbow and an Assist of your preference, so you do not really need to give her any more expensive skills.

Edited by XRay
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3 hours ago, XRay said:

For Arena, I would go with Soleil due to scoring higher. For Aether Raids, I would go with Lilina for ease of use.

I... could care less about Aether Raids. It's a fancier Arena with worse rewards IMO (I really would only want to focus on getting Adrift Azura to 5* +10, which I'm really not that concerned about to begin with)

So then, guess I'll get Soleil up. Since you recommend making Soleil into a more Bonus unit-supportive unit, do you think there's any change to be done to her A Passive? Swift Sparrow would only get her speed to 43 (which, if I understand, is considered below-average in higher tier Arena environments), but the boost in Attack could still lead to accidental ORKOS.

Here's what Soleil looks like now. I'm debating if I should replace Reposition, given I probably won't be allowed to use Dancers beyond the bonus weeks featuring Legendary Azura, but that's not the same as I can't replace it (I have Rally Spd/Def+ fodder somewhere).

nfK6pOq.jpg?1

Edited by Xenomata
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1 hour ago, Xenomata said:

So then, guess I'll get Soleil up. Since you recommend making Soleil into a more Bonus unit-supportive unit, do you think there's any change to be done to her A Passive? Swift Sparrow would only get her speed to 43 (which, if I understand, is considered below-average in higher tier Arena environments), but the boost in Attack could still lead to accidental ORKOS.

I kept Swift Sparrow on my BH!Lyn, but my BH!Lyn does not have 60 Atk so I generally do not have to worry about her killing something. If you are afraid of knocking someone out, you can run something like Brazen Def/Res. M!Kana got Brazen Def/Res if you do not mind sacrificing a limit copy of him.

43 Spd is more than enough in my opinion for score ranges of 720+. Spd only matters when you are in score ranges below ~720, as that is where you will see melee units with performance sets. By the time you reach 730+, most units are either slow as hell like armor units, or have their Spd advantage completely neutered by SP builds.

Edited by XRay
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On 5.1.2019 at 4:25 PM, XRay said:

If you want a unit to double the fastest performance units, I do not think Fir is the unit to do that since she lacks both the Spd and Atk. Units like Karla and Mia with performance builds are nearly impossible for Fir to double. +Spd Fir can reach 39 Spd, while Karla's and Mia's neutral Spd is 40. Once you factor in Assets, Karla and Mia with +Spd (44/43 Spd) becomes practically impossible for Fir to double even if you give Fir 0/7/0/0 (assuming everyone runs the same build with Atk/Spd Solo and Spd stacks). For Fir to double those units, Fir will need triple Drives or Joint Hone Spd with a Drive.

I dont think that supports the case of +atk Fir. Why would someone put Fir up against Karla or Mia when you can have a Blue unit take care of them. Baldrick has a point with +Spd, i mean with Wrath and her refine she gets a 20 dmg guaranteed when she procs a special. But again it depends what you are fighting, what the Team setup is and what the unit built is. I personally would go with +atk because you can just tick down the special counter once in Wrath range and thus deal more dmg (maybe! if she doesnt hit for 0)

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1 minute ago, Hilda said:

I dont think that supports the case of +atk Fir. Why would someone put Fir up against Karla or Mia when you can have a Blue unit take care of them.

He wanted Fir to take on the fastest units, and Karla and Mia are the fastest units so I used them as examples on why Fir is not the best at taking on those units.

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25 minutes ago, Hilda said:

I dont think that supports the case of +atk Fir. Why would someone put Fir up against Karla or Mia when you can have a Blue unit take care of them. Baldrick has a point with +Spd, i mean with Wrath and her refine she gets a 20 dmg guaranteed when she procs a special. But again it depends what you are fighting, what the Team setup is and what the unit built is. I personally would go with +atk because you can just tick down the special counter once in Wrath range and thus deal more dmg (maybe! if she doesnt hit for 0)

In that case, green units as a whole are slow as dirt compared to Fir, and she will only have difficulty doubling the ones with Basilikos or a skill that prevents follow-ups (Wary Fighter, Thunder Armads, Great Flame).

When running a Wrath build on a frail, fast unit where you won't have Desperation to keep you alive, the point is to one-hit kill the opponent with your Special, meaning you want all the Atk you can get (up to the point where you can one-hit kill enough of the things you need to) since Spd is only relevant for your first round of combat.

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6 hours ago, XRay said:

You might as well first try a dual phase build with her then and see in which phase you use her more often in. You may even prefer the dual phase build, although I am not sure if she is as good at dual phasing as melee armors are.

(Any Weapon)
Reposition — Swap
Moonbow
Close Counter
Bold Fighter
Armor March
Quick Riposte

She already got most of those skills in the above build, so she just needs Moonbow and an Assist of your preference, so you do not really need to give her any more expensive skills.

Yeah, right now she has all of those skills, and she performs super well with them! It's just been her weapon that's in flux; I can't seem to decide what would work the best.

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1 minute ago, Fire Emblem Fan said:

Yeah, right now she has all of those skills, and she performs super well with them! It's just been her weapon that's in flux; I can't seem to decide what would work the best.

If you are not sure, I would just stick with Blue Gift for now until you feel the need to switch. It is still pretty useful as it negates enemy buffs, which can be pretty useful on both phases.

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What’s the best use for Heroic Grails? I’ve been debating saving them for Young Azura, merging up my Black Knight, or getting Distant Def fodder from Garon. Probably won’t be doing arena for a while since I just started playing again, if that matters.

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25 minutes ago, MrSmokestack said:

What’s the best use for Heroic Grails? I’ve been debating saving them for Young Azura, merging up my Black Knight, or getting Distant Def fodder from Garon. Probably won’t be doing arena for a while since I just started playing again, if that matters.

My personal pick is to get merges for Aversa since she's consistently useful in various game modes and could always use more points of HP. Merges on other units that you use often would also be a good choice.

Skill fodder is probably okay for the first couple copies of a character, but only if you have the intention of never merging the character ever.

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1 hour ago, MrSmokestack said:

What’s the best use for Heroic Grails? I’ve been debating saving them for Young Azura, merging up my Black Knight, or getting Distant Def fodder from Garon. Probably won’t be doing arena for a while since I just started playing again, if that matters.

Since the +1 merge is going to be 5 stats rather than 2, you can use the grails to +1 any freebie units you've foddered off and only have 1 copy of. (If you don't have young azura at all because you missed the TT then a tome dancer is pretty good, yes.)

 

Personally I'm going to save them until a unit I like pops up in the grail shop and then +10 that unit.

Edited by DehNutCase
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3 hours ago, MrSmokestack said:

What’s the best use for Heroic Grails? I’ve been debating saving them for Young Azura, merging up my Black Knight, or getting Distant Def fodder from Garon. Probably won’t be doing arena for a while since I just started playing again, if that matters.

basically if you wanna merge one of the characters the hero grails help with the harder to access characters. i recently used some grails for skill fodders. Res tactic from canas. i personally have no desire to merge any of the characters currently, it takes a long time to get enough grails to +10 a guy. assuming you got the 3 free versions of the character from the maps you still need 7 which will take about 6 months if not more. 

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