The Main Character's Personality

[Ivy Wife Supremacy]

10 hours ago, Refa said:

It's not like that at all because she didn't say anything about Corrin not being the main character...

They did they don't consider them Lords aka main characters because their gender custom base.

Edited February 7, 2017 by Blade Lord Lyn

[EricaofRenais]

1 hour ago, Blade Lord Lyn said:

They did they don't consider them Lords aka main characters because their gender custom base.

I never said Corrin was not a lord, all I said was that I don't count them as a female only lord because of being able to choose their gender.  

[Iria]

I made my own story and concept for a possible fe15 where the story would be a bit different than usually as well as the "lord".

The lord i have in mind would be a street smart person who starts out having nothing and did everything to stay alive. They lived through a lot while trying to stay alive. They  had to do a lot of dirty work ,such as stealing, bribing, ect.. They also needed to learn how to adapt to and analyze/get along with other (unpleasant) people.(what shows in their supports because they change their way of speech depending on the other person.)

They travel around the world as a mercenary/adventurer now with a lot of life experience  and tactical knowledge where they get involved into the main conflict/story instead of being an rather naive prince/ss who trusts everyone.

I guess I stop here before I get into it to much...

 

Edited February 7, 2017 by Leon&Takumi

[Lord Tullus]

I'd like a lord who's a bit cocky and somewhat of an ass.  Someone who's got some wit to them, but still tries to fight for the best.  For some reason, a laguz type design comes to mind, with a lance or bow.  Blonde hair, too.  No Blue haired lords.  Please, IS.  Do I dream too much, or am I the only one who would like to see lord character on his/her way to be executed?

[Gima]

5 hours ago, Lord Tullus said:

I'd like a lord who's a bit cocky and somewhat of an ass.  Someone who's got some wit to them, but still tries to fight for the best.  For some reason, a laguz type design comes to mind, with a lance or bow.  Blonde hair, too.  No Blue haired lords.  Please, IS.  Do I dream too much, or am I the only one who would like to see lord character on his/her way to be executed?

A Lord character on his/her way to be executed sounds like something that would happen, but for the wrong reasons.

 

As for what I want, I would like another Lord who's not a noble. I would like for them to be female. As for personality, I would like for them to be a bit rough and tumble, and like Han Solo "not in this for your revolution". They would ultimately lead an army into war for personal reasons.

[Jayvee94]

I want my main character to start as an optimistic team leader. Later, due to a tragic event, becomes a pessimistic vengeful character. And towards the end becomes a wiser commander.

[Thane]

2 hours ago, Jayvee94 said:

I want my main character to start as an optimistic team leader. Later, due to a tragic event, becomes a pessimistic vengeful character. And towards the end becomes a wiser commander.

I think revenge as a motive works very, very rarely. I find it's often used as an excuse plot, and I don't think it'd fit a Fire Emblem main character at all. A side character? Sure, I can see that, but having the protagonist become overly distant, cold and just focus on revenge would require a lot to be interesting.

Edited February 9, 2017 by Thane

[Jayvee94]

I was thinking of the you killed my father plot. Let's take away the vengeful part but the event remains to be traumatizing. (This would happen mid game)

[Thane]

21 minutes ago, Jayvee94 said:

I was thinking of the you killed my father plot. Let's take away the vengeful part but the event remains to be traumatizing. (This would happen mid game)

But why? That's such a common character arc even within the series itself, even more so if you count Emmeryn and Mikoto as well. That's not to say it can't be done well or that the protagonist shouldn't face hardships, but it feels like you can get a little more ambitious.

[AlexArtsHere]

11 minutes ago, Thane said:

But why? That's such a common character arc even within the series itself, even more so if you count Emmeryn and Mikoto as well. That's not to say it can't be done well or that the protagonist shouldn't face hardships, but it feels like you can get a little more ambitious.

"The death of my French poodle at your hands has now motivated me to start a war that will last some 20 years as I become increasingly cold and distant from my friends and loved ones due to my single minded pursuit of vengeance for Fifi."

 

Motivational enough for you? :P

[dap005]

A quirky and charming MC who's knowledgeable (due to travelling alot and being a historical researcher, the story should focus on them doing that too), who gets caught in a war between nations they care about and people they care about. Perhaps they were born in one national and migrated to the other as a child or it's mixed race etc.

A healer lord would be interesting also,  rather than the general 'I can stick weapon A into a lot of people' type lords. It would change the tone of the game quite a bit I'd imagine.

Though in fairness I prefer political stories to follow more than one character so we can can get an understanding of life for people in different countries caught in conflict. Or at least a lord/mc that doesn't just fight for one side. 

That or just a lord like Oscar from Rose of Versailles and let IS hire ryoko ikeda to write the plot while their at it, but I'm getting carried away here.

[Jayvee94]

38 minutes ago, Thane said:

But why? That's such a common character arc even within the series itself, even more so if you count Emmeryn and Mikoto as well. That's not to say it can't be done well or that the protagonist shouldn't face hardships, but it feels like you can get a little more ambitious.

Looks like I'm pretty bad with this character development thing.

[blah the Prussian]

3 hours ago, Thane said:

I think revenge as a motive works very, very rarely. I find it's often used as an excuse plot, and I don't think it'd fit a Fire Emblem main character at all. A side character? Sure, I can see that, but having the protagonist become overly distant, cold and just focus on revenge would require a lot to be interesting.

One revenge plot I've seen that's been done extremely well is Reinhard von Lohengramm in Legend of the Galactic Heroes. He starts out wanting revenge on the nobility for basically raping his older sister, but as time goes on he realizes that, as he is now leader of the Galactic Empire, he has a responsibility beyond revenge; a responsibility to actually rule. It works very well, although it might not count because the whole point of the arc is letting go of revenge.

[Jotari]

3 hours ago, Jayvee94 said:

I was thinking of the you killed my father plot. Let's take away the vengeful part but the event remains to be traumatizing. (This would happen mid game)

To be honest I'd like to see a second Fire Emblem protagonist whose father isn't killed at some point -_- Roy is literally the only example we have so far (wait do we know iif Hector's parents were killed or could they potentially have died from natural causes? Regardless seein a parent live till the end would be nice).

2 hours ago, blah the Prussian said:

One revenge plot I've seen that's been done extremely well is Reinhard von Lohengramm in Legend of the Galactic Heroes. He starts out wanting revenge on the nobility for basically raping his older sister, but as time goes on he realizes that, as he is now leader of the Galactic Empire, he has a responsibility beyond revenge; a responsibility to actually rule. It works very well, although it might not count because the whole point of the arc is letting go of revenge.

Spoiler

I never really seen his whole arc as letting go of revenge. I mean the guy he primarily wants to screw over dies from natural causes way before he can enact anything :/  Of course he does then become emperor not long afterwards but there's no real letting go of any revenge. He doesn't have any frustration trying to take revenge boner out on anyone. He fights the Federation but he treats it purely as a formal matter. If it was about getting over revenge then he'd be finding excuses to make enemies and such. Reinhard's later arc seem to be more about living a fruitful life so the angelic Kircheis, that must be respected and adored at all times, didn't die in vain. Getting over revenge is a decent arc for a character but I think for it to ring true the person you actually want vengeance on needs to be present for the character to choose a more empathetic path.

 

Edited February 9, 2017 by Jotari

[blah the Prussian]

7 hours ago, Jotari said:

 

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I never really seen his whole arc as letting go of revenge. I mean the guy he primarily wants to screw over dies from natural causes way before he can enact anything :/  Of course he does then become emperor not long afterwards but there's no real letting go of any revenge. He doesn't have any frustration trying to take revenge boner out on anyone. He fights the Federation but he treats it purely as a formal matter. If it was about getting over revenge then he'd be finding excuses to make enemies and such. Reinhard's later arc seem to be more about living a fruitful life so the angelic Kircheis, that must be respected and adored at all times, didn't die in vain. Getting over revenge is a decent arc for a character but I think for it to ring true the person you actually want vengeance on needs to be present for the character to choose a more empathetic path.

 

He didn't want to get revenge on just one guy, though, he wanted to get revenge on the entire nobility. Although, the arc really is more about coming to terms with the fact that he now has to actually lead, which comes to a satisfying conclusion. Then his final arc becomes a massive missed opportunity, but whatever.

[\spoiler]

[Jotari]

1 minute ago, blah the Prussian said:

 

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He didn't want to get revenge on just one guy, though, he wanted to get revenge on the entire nobility. Although, the arc really is more about coming to terms with the fact that he now has to actually lead, which comes to a satisfying conclusion. Then his final arc becomes a massive missed opportunity, but whatever.

[\spoiler]

Yeah so it's not about letting go of revenge. He has his revenge against the nobles and lives on with no remorse or regret about his decision (well except on the few occasion that nuked planet's brought up. But that's generally used to make him reflect and try not to be like his enemies rather than question the righteousness of annihilating them all).

[Refa]

4 hours ago, Thane said:

But why? That's such a common character arc even within the series itself, even more so if you count Emmeryn and Mikoto as well. That's not to say it can't be done well or that the protagonist shouldn't face hardships, but it feels like you can get a little more ambitious.

Not really.  People die in FE as part of the story yes, but how often does it have long lasting repercussions?  Next to never.

[blah the Prussian]

7 hours ago, Jotari said:

Yeah so it's not about letting go of revenge. He has his revenge against the nobles and lives on with no remorse or regret about his decision (well except on the few occasion that nuked planet's brought up. But that's generally used to make him reflect and try not to be like his enemies rather than question the righteousness of annihilating them all).

Eh, you're probably right. I guess I'm just pointing out a character I like whose motivation is at first revenge, but I like his character because it stops being revenge. He does have an arc for that, but, yeah, it's not letting go of revenge, it's constructing a new identity after said revenge is achieved.

[Jotari]

2 hours ago, Refa said:

Not really.  People die in FE as part of the story yes, but how often does it have long lasting repercussions?  Next to never.

Hmm. A bold claim. Let's go through each plot in the series 1 by 1 and analyze the major deaths.

Spoiler

 

Shadow Dragon: The writing style for this game isn't really based on interpersonal relationships. It's stylized more as a historic text detailing Marth's journey. Nevertheless I think the death's of Marth's parents do effect him heavily and the game does a good job of showing it. The liberation of Altea is actually a pretty harrowing experience for Marth as he learns his mother (whom he had some small hope still lived) was eaten by a dragon. He was then forced to smile and publically make it seem as if he was happy with their victory. Later we really get to see how glad he is to be reunited with Elice, literally the only blood family he has left. In fact I think the focus on Marth's loss here serves to actually take away something from the plot (or at least leave a part of it lacking) since Gharnef get's the brunt of the blame leaving Medeus feeling like more of a passive afterthought when you eventually have to face him. The apparent deaths of Michaelis and Camus are also treated quite respectfully and do carry more weight to them than many other villains that came later in the series (despite how relatively unsympathetic Michalis actually is as far as his actions go. I think the fact that the game managed to make me think of his death as a tragic waste is a testament to its writing).

Gaiden: No one of note really dies in this game except Rudolf. And even then that is shown to display some confusion and confliction in Alm and his purpose.

Mystery of the Emblem: Some noteworthy characters do die in this, most notably Lorenz and Hardin. Probably a punch to the gut for the player if they used those characters in the previous game but I actually can't think of many story beats that are particularly affected afterwards. So I'd actually rate this one rather low on the importance of death scle.

Genealogy of Holy War: Barhara Massacre. Not much needs to really be said. Long lasting, player punching and character affecting. And that's not even the only example the game provides. Even minor villains like Brian manage to get in on the action there.

Thracia 776: Eyvel's stoning I think effects Leif and Mareeta's character arc a great deal. Maybe that could be discounted since she can be saved.Perhps more fitting would be Dorias whose death directly put Leif on a new arc where he self doubts his capability to lead (right after getting anxious confident in himself after retaking Leinster, if that paradox makes any sense) and begins to idolize Seliph.

Binding Blade: Hector is the only major death in this game and it doesn't really effect all that much. To the extent that I'd love to see a Hector Mode fan hack that keeps him alive an hilariously has him replace Roy for every subsequent scene in the game.

Blazing Blade: Elbert's and Ninian's deaths are the big ones in this one. The first kind of sticks around and affects Eliwood for a few chapters but it doesn't really change his character in a major way. Ninian's definitely does affect Eliwood much more and is a constant plot point up until the final chapter but then it's sort of negated entirely...So I'm not really sure how to class this one. Oh there's also the death of Hector's brother but I think they overplayed their subtly on that one a bit much.

Sacred Stones: Well like every other game in the series the twins lose their parents pretty early on but I don't think that has as much consequence as one would expect.Lyon's death is the one that's milked for the most its worth in this game but it can't really fulfill the far reaching criteria due to being at the very end of the game. Eh, Ismaire kind of affects Joshua afterwards but that's kind of seriously hampered by his status as someone who can die in gameplay. Conversation with Calleach is good though. Oh yeah this game has Glen, his death certainly impacts Cormag almost to the point that without it Cormag has pretty little character to go on (at least from what I remember, never really delved into his supports beyond surface level).

Path of Radiance: Greil, obviously. Probably the most obvious far reaching and character impacting death in the series. Let's see, anyone beyond that. Hmm. Rajaion does seem to affect Ena in the sequel. This game is also famed for altering support conversations if someone dies. Oh and there's Shiharam whose death actually has a longer impact on Haar than Jill surprisingly enough. At least I can recall him talking more bout Shiharam than her (and obviously his death is what leads Haar to eventually join Ike).

Radiant Dawn: Hmm. I really feel as if some one should be immediately coming to mind. But nope, I got nothing side from the slight shift in character for Ena that I mentioned already. Oh, Pelleas? Well I guess it kind of affects Almedha but not so much that the story wasn't able to function by keeping him alive.

Awakening: The writing here is generally looked down upon a lot but the death of Emmeryn did at least affect the outcome of the rest of that arc. Afterwards which there's a time skip where I think giving it too much focus would probably have dwelled on it too much. The death of the parent characters in the bad timeline also clearly had an affect on the children.

Fates: There's Mikoto...Which I'd categorize into should have had more an effect than it did. Orochi's Supports do help to give it a little bit more weight.but they're all a bit too upbeat to really hit home that these children are mourning the loss of their mother. Also ha! Revelations Izana. Worst death in the entire series? I've just spent at least half an hour thinking about them all and I think so.

 

 

So all in all I think the games do run the spectrum in how plot important deaths are. I don't think they'll be winning any rewards for it but it's a fair share above next to never. At least as far as I see it. You're more than willing to just dismiss every point I just made based on your own perception as to how effectively these plot points were expressed.

Edited February 9, 2017 by Jotari

[Refa]

I'd agree with all of that.  I don't think that anything that Jayvee had initially proposed had been done before in FE, though.

Edited February 9, 2017 by Refa

[Thane]

42 minutes ago, Refa said:

I'd agree with all of that.  I don't think that anything that Jayvee had initially proposed had been done before in FE, though.

Maybe the degree of focus on the character arc would've been different, but that doen't change the fact that it's still a very, very common trope, and we've seen so many parents/parental figures die in Fire Emblem that I'm afraid it'd feel a bit toothless from the get-go. Again, I never said it couldn't be done well, just that it would be like writing with a handicap of sorts.

[Refa]

Yeah, in retrospect I think it'd be better handled if it was centered around something that wasn't a parent dying.

[NekoKnight]

I want a "lord" who is just a few steps above a commoner, maybe a knight's son. He would be protective of his allies but be socially awkward, with his childhood friend taking on the role of "beloved hero". He would start the game in a mercenary company as its tactician, supporting his friend (the leader) and fighting off threats to the common people. The mercenary company would rise in society, and while the friend is a humble man of the people, the protagonist finds in himself a growing ambition. Eventually the friend being murdered would be the protagonist's cynicism catalyst that switches his priorities from wanting power to protect the less fortunate, to wanting power for the sake of itself. Eventually he would become the villain in the story, to be defeated by a secondary protagonist (his sister).

 

 

[TheInternetExplorer]

Personally I'd like someone like Luke from Tales of the Abyss.

[André The kid]

Honestly, the story would have much more potential if the character wasn't a lord, or if he was, being able to die without a game over, directing you to another possible ending for the game.

The reason i usually dislike Lords it's because they are mostly bland, goody two-shoes. Hector is the only one who is the exception to this rule. (No wonder he's the best lord :D )

But if it has to be a lord, don't make someone bland. Put the lord in a situation of difficulty or stress, in which he/She has to adapt and grow. Because that's what transforms 2d sprites into full-blown characters. And please, don't be a dragon. Be a Beorc. Anyway, Intelligent systems, if you're there, please think of making this game's story more dark in tone, in a form that would weigh down the player, and the lord in question. Don't turn the lord full on emo, but Still, Give the character some personality, LIke Hector, or Hector..... Or Hector..... Or Ike. Because those are the only ones that were well written.