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The Tactician?


What Tactician style would you prefer?  

69 members have voted

  1. 1. What Tactician style do you prefer?

    • Mark - Non-existent outside of storyline cutscenes.
      14
    • Kris - Minor Important character. Death = Game Over, but no real important story plot.
      34
    • Robin - Major important character, shares centerstage with other equally important protagonists.
      19
    • Corrin - Center Stage Main Character single focus to the story.
      2


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Kris, by far. Honestly, the idea behind the way Mark works was stupid as hell. Its like they created him, and then forgot about him while they developed the game and forgot to delete him from the files. While I dont want the avatar to be a main plot point, I also dont want to just name some random dude that shows up every now and then.

Kris by far though. I love having my own unit, and love feeling involved in some way, I just dont want to be the main lord again. I dont want to be forced to use a sword.

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  • 2 weeks later...

I'd prefer an avatar like Kris. Not a big role in the story. Just someone who had a Soren/Mist-level of importance. They were there and present in most of the scenes, but not all of them. They were huge supporting characters, but not the main characters.

If we were to take a backseat role, a la Mark. I wouldn't mind it, but I want more though. Mark just seemed forgotten about once the game started picking up and their sole purpose was just to have someone Lyn can talk to early game. If we were to expand on it, I think it would be cool if a backseat tactician could also be responsible for designing the armor colors of the army, which path we should take, etc. (like if our role was a good friend of the lord who can't fight, but is brilliant) 

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@Dandy Druid Hm... I never thought of having a Tactician with a some-what important roll without being pressent on the battlefield, lol. Though I think I'd like Kris more, somewhat important to the story, able to personalize "myself", but not "LOOK AT ME, I AM IMPORTANT!" lmao.

I really hope they bring back Kris's background generation. Have it affect the actual storyline of the game, nothing major but something that affects cutscenes or something. Choose Growth rates (i.e.: Boon/Banes), Fate's Promote system (You start Mercenary or something else, but later can Promote to your chosen Promote and secondary Promote), and design your appearance and color scheme. 

Edited by Alpha Wolves
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15 hours ago, Alpha Wolves said:

@Dandy Druid Hm... I never thought of having a Tactician with a some-what important roll without being pressent on the battlefield, lol. Though I think I'd like Kris more, somewhat important to the story, able to personalize "myself", but not "LOOK AT ME, I AM IMPORTANT!" lmao.

I really hope they bring back Kris's background generation. Have it affect the actual storyline of the game, nothing major but something that affects cutscenes or something. Choose Growth rates (i.e.: Boon/Banes), Fate's Promote system (You start Mercenary or something else, but later can Promote to your chosen Promote and secondary Promote), and design your appearance and color scheme. 

Yep that's pretty much what I want. I think the background should determine who you're able to have support conversations with, since certain types of people attract other certain types of people usually.

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I voted Mark without really thinking about it too far, but upon actually READING the poll Kris seems fine too haha.

Although actually I WOULD be fine with more in-depth writing, but only if 1) it's actually done well lol and 2) multiple dialogue options are given so players can characterize their avatars themselves instead of being told how their character acts by the writing and plot. I know for a fact I'm not the only one who designed my first Fates Conquest Corrin to be a character who's angry/tough/battle-hungry/etc, only to find out Conquest!Corrin is super sensitive and feewings etc. (which I don't have a problem with on principle, that type of character is totally fine it's just not what I was expecting lol. It did have the interesting side-effect of my scary-looking Corrin being sensitive and a teddy bear lol so that's amusing at least)

EDIT: As far as Tacticians go as a unit, I'm fond of the notion of them being more support-centric units whose main role is to support teammates, but can counterattack if they happen to wander into combat lol. Not quite bard/dancer levels of squishiness/helplessness, but not quite full regular unit capabilities either. 

Edited by BANRYU
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On 2/26/2017 at 7:46 AM, Alpha Wolves said:

I really hope they bring back Kris's background generation. Have it affect the actual storyline of the game, nothing major but something that affects cutscenes or something. Choose Growth rates (i.e.: Boon/Banes), Fate's Promote system (You start Mercenary or something else, but later can Promote to your chosen Promote and secondary Promote), and design your appearance and color scheme. 

I like this idea a lot. So long as we're not forcing ourselves into the spotlight, I'm good. I'd say that your starting class could be chosen/influenced by your background: i.e., if you choose something like "studied at [insert magical country like the Khadein here]" then you'd start as a mage, or something similar.

EDIT: @BANRYU That's pretty hilarious. But you have a point; therein lies the danger of making a character whose personality is already decided for you. I think that your multiple dialogue options sound cool for influencing avatar personality. I'm thinking something like what Xenoblade Chronicles X did with the protagonist dialogue options, though in FE Switch it would be voice acted instead of silent, of course.

Edited by Extrasolar
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@Extrasolar I think I like that idea... forging your own legend based on the backgrounds that you choose for yourself. You get a 10 piece questionnaire, which then calculates your characters starting class (After Promoting from Trainee maybe?) when you make your character, You also can make 2-3 Choices during the course that may or may not affect your story, but relationships in the party. (I.e.: Stand up for the traitor or join in the mockey, get scolded or praised by the lord based on choice, but nothing more OR Choose to go on the assault or stay defensive, changing the course of the story to X.a or X.b depending on which route you took).

@BANRYU So.... Grandmaster Tactician with all Rally skills?

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14 minutes ago, Alpha Wolves said:

@Extrasolar I think I like that idea... forging your own legend based on the backgrounds that you choose for yourself. You get a 10 piece questionnaire, which then calculates your characters starting class (After Promoting from Trainee maybe?) when you make your character, You also can make 2-3 Choices during the course that may or may not affect your story, but relationships in the party. (I.e.: Stand up for the traitor or join in the mockey, get scolded or praised by the lord based on choice, but nothing more OR Choose to go on the assault or stay defensive, changing the course of the story to X.a or X.b depending on which route you took).

@BANRYU So.... Grandmaster Tactician with all Rally skills?

Hmm, not sure about the questionnaire deciding class...I guess it depends on the questions. If they're general temperament questions, I wouldn't necessarily say it's fair if your avatar gets stuck as something you don't want it to be. Like, let's say that it decides that you're a morally upstanding person, and sticks you as a cavalier, when you wanted your avatar to be a mage or something.

I'd say a background that spells it out more explicitly would be better, and avoid players being disappointed or upset by their avatar's starting class. Though I like the option of choices perhaps affecting the plot, if only in minor ways, to the point of potentially leading to a different game chapter.

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4 hours ago, Extrasolar said:

I like this idea a lot. So long as we're not forcing ourselves into the spotlight, I'm good. I'd say that your starting class could be chosen/influenced by your background: i.e., if you choose something like "studied at [insert magical country like the Khadein here]" then you'd start as a mage, or something similar.

EDIT: @BANRYU That's pretty hilarious. But you have a point; therein lies the danger of making a character whose personality is already decided for you. I think that your multiple dialogue options sound cool for influencing avatar personality. I'm thinking something like what Xenoblade Chronicles X did with the protagonist dialogue options, though in FE Switch it would be voice acted instead of silent, of course.

Yeah, even if it doesn't drastically affect plot, anything to help further personalize the character would be great. As awesome as the gameplay options regarding Corrin were, I feel like Corrin was probably the least personalized avatar yet in terms of everything being spelled/written out for you, which IMO kind of goes against the advertised notion of 'YOU being the main character!' ...you're not though, really.

Regarding the questionnaire or what have you that decides your background, I'm fine with it so long as the game is clear with you about the gameplay repercussions of your choices and doesn't throw you in without you knowing what you've chosen or anything lol. Fates kinda skirted that edge with the bane/boon/talent being a little obscure, but thankfully I think it was pretty easy to figure out, at least.

Just now, Alpha Wolves said:

@BANRYU So.... Grandmaster Tactician with all Rally skills?

Not necessarily? I was actually thinking something more along the lines of Bard/Dancer in terms of being a single-stage class dedicated to support but that can also fight. Maybe instead of being fast/skillful they're more of a slow, bulky class that can take some punishment if need be but not do a ton in response or something.

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13 minutes ago, BANRYU said:

Yeah, even if it doesn't drastically affect plot, anything to help further personalize the character would be great. As awesome as the gameplay options regarding Corrin were, I feel like Corrin was probably the least personalized avatar yet in terms of everything being spelled/written out for you, which IMO kind of goes against the advertised notion of 'YOU being the main character!' ...you're not though, really.

Regarding the questionnaire or what have you that decides your background, I'm fine with it so long as the game is clear with you about the gameplay repercussions of your choices and doesn't throw you in without you knowing what you've chosen or anything lol. Fates kinda skirted that edge with the bane/boon/talent being a little obscure, but thankfully I think it was pretty easy to figure out, at least.

Not necessarily? I was actually thinking something more along the lines of Bard/Dancer in terms of being a single-stage class dedicated to support but that can also fight. Maybe instead of being fast/skillful they're more of a slow, bulky class that can take some punishment if need be but not do a ton in response or something.

There's evidence that Corrin was planned to be a regular, non-customizable lord originally before IS decided to put in the avatar mechanic from Awakening, so that's probably why they weren't all that customizable at the end of the day. But yeah, agreed, explicit wording is always better than vague, more "in-universe" wording like the Fates' bane/boon. I was like, "what the hell does being 'dull' mean? So in FE world, your resistance is tied to how intelligent you are? How does that make sense?"

That just made me think...what if one of the background choices was "a traveling performer in a caravan," and you could start with a legendary bard lord, with an appropriately spoony outfit. That would be the best thing.

Edited by Extrasolar
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@Extrasolar I wouldn't think it would limit your class... Basically set the number of FE Classes there are, and divide it by 4, so you have approximately that number of choices after the questionnaire. Something like:

Describe your level of education - 
(a). I was on my own since the first day I remember, I trained myself.
(b). I was trained by a single teacher, mentored by my master.
(c). I was trained through many years of school with many teachers.

Ect, ect... And after ~10 of these questions, they calculate your "best fit answers" top 10 from available base classes. You pick the one you want or "Start Over" to get the questions repeated to you so you can choose something else. Option A would give you choices like Thief, Mercenary, Dark Mage. Option B would give you Ninja, Knight, Sorcerer. Option C would give you Mage, Diviner, Healer, ect. ect. Alternatively, you could just start "Tactician" and have the option to promote into Grand Tactician and the class you've chosen.

 

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15 minutes ago, Alpha Wolves said:

@Extrasolar I wouldn't think it would limit your class... Basically set the number of FE Classes there are, and divide it by 4, so you have approximately that number of choices after the questionnaire. Something like:

Describe your level of education - 
(a). I was on my own since the first day I remember, I trained myself.
(b). I was trained by a single teacher, mentored by my master.
(c). I was trained through many years of school with many teachers.

Ect, ect... And after ~10 of these questions, they calculate your "best fit answers" top 10 from available base classes. You pick the one you want or "Start Over" to get the questions repeated to you so you can choose something else. Option A would give you choices like Thief, Mercenary, Dark Mage. Option B would give you Ninja, Knight, Sorcerer. Option C would give you Mage, Diviner, Healer, ect. ect. Alternatively, you could just start "Tactician" and have the option to promote into Grand Tactician and the class you've chosen.

 

Hmm, I like that idea. So long as you ultimately know what you're getting into, having some flavor text to flesh out the world is fun too. I think it works.

As long as I get my bard lord at the end of the day, I'm good. :^_^:

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6 hours ago, BANRYU said:

ONE thing I found out about Kris lately is that they could get cool headgear?? What's up with that and why haven't we been able to do that since??

Because no other game has Wrys, so it's obvious that they haven't had any success at finding a way to top taking his glorious bald head. And why even bother if there's no place to go but down?

Edited by Slumber
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Ok, going to change what I said a bit after reading more on kris.

 

I would want something more along the lines of Mark, but playable instead of nonexistant. Kris was annoying as shit. Worst than Robin.

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I mean, by concept alone Kris seems like the best choice if you had to have an avatar but I heard that FE12 still fucked up on that by having Kris accomplish everything Marth did? Kris also had the misfortune of sticking their nose into a remake of a story that already existed, which likely hurt him as well. As for the first option, could we choose whether or not to have Mark at all? Because starting from Eliwood's or Hector's modes gave you that option.

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On ‎3‎/‎6‎/‎2017 at 8:03 PM, Tolvir said:

Ok, going to change what I said a bit after reading more on kris.

 

I would want something more along the lines of Mark, but playable instead of nonexistant. Kris was annoying as shit. Worst than Robin.

I agree.  The concept of Kris was pretty good, but the implementation left a lot to be desired.  Ideally, I think an avatar would be something like:

Name/Gender/Looks:  Customizable

Personality:  Short questionnaire during character creation, with some in-game dialogue options

Classes:  Tactician + 1 of the player's choice (barring unique or special classes)  Any other classes would be limited the same way it is for any other characters (i.e. using Fates' system, S-Support and A+-Support only, plus DLC classes.  None of this, "everyone you have A-rank with" nonsense!)

...speaking of which...Supports:  Lord, 2-3 other fixed supports, Avatar's children, and 6-7 others based on your class choice.  Ultimately, the avatar could still support all units, but not in a single playthrough (they'd have to choose different classes to do so).

Story Role:  I'd like to see the avatar be an advisor/vassal/retainer of the story's lord.  There could definitely be a friendship, but along the lines of Hector and Oswin, or the Fates siblings and their respective retainers.  The avatar is deferred to during battle (you are controlling everyone, after all), but matters outside of tactics in combat would likely be directed to the lord rather than to one of his servants (excepting matters based on relationships between the avatar and another character).  Also, the lord should display some competence in strategy himself, and a couple times should suggest good strategies for the storyline (e.g. "The enemy has many Wyverns, so moving on the plain would be too risky.  Let's use this canyon.  Even though the going will be slower, we'll be protected from prying eyes.")  Allow the avatar to be an asset rather than the person who is single-handedly running the entire army.

Game Role:  The avatar should be a useful unit, but hopefully the limitations on classes and supports would prevent it from being the single most powerful unit in the entire game.  The avatar's death should result in Game Over, but the avatar shouldn't be required on most stages (say, just for recruiting the avatar's child, like any other parent unit).

 

Personally, I like being able to insert myself into the story without being the main character.  I think it's important that, if an avatar is added, s/he not overshadow the other protagonists or the overall plot of the game.

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