timeline Decoding Lucina's Timeline (SPOILERS)

[Big Smoke]

Alright. Today, I'm going to spend some time trying to figure out Lucina's timeline, her reality, and try to make sense of it. Let me just tell you right now, it doesn't make any sense.

So supposedly the first event that sets the world in the path of destruction is the assassination of Emmeryn and Chrom in Chapter 6. (I'll be using Chapters as time marks) Alright, sounds beliveable enough. Lucina saves Chrom from the assassins after all, then Chrom saves Emmeryn. But, this is where it gets kinda confusing.

Let me pose a question. If Chrom is killed the night of Chapter 6, then how is Lucina born?

At this point Chrom probably doesn't have a wife. I don't know if it's possible to get him to S support with someone by then, but even if he somehow does have a wife, Lucina isn't born until two years later, after the war with Plegia. That also accounts for any other children Chrom may have, (one other depending on his wife) but there's no canon wife for Chrom, so that isn't set in stone. But it is definitely true that Lucina can't be born, therefore being non-existent in her own timeline. [By extension, Lissa is probably dead as well. She is saved at the last second by future Lucina in Chapter  1. Without her there, Lissa would probably be dead, and that means Owain doesn't exist either]

Moving off of that mind-fuck, I believe the next major event different from Lucina's world is Emmeryn's suicide in Chapter 9 (I think?). This causes most of Plegia's army to lay down their weapons and surrender en masse. That should have an effect on how the future turns out, right? Sure Emmeryn is dead, but Ylisse defeats Plegia. We can assume that when Chrom and Em are killed (Ch 6) Plegia would take over Ylisse and the Grimleal would do their Grima-ish shit. Speaking of Plegia...

Who the hell is the king? 

Supposedly Validar must be king in Lucina's world, as he revives Grima, takes control of Robin, yada yada yada. But, if Ylisse loses the war, wouldn't Gangrel still be alive? So wouldn't he be king? Okay, maybe Validar killed him. That one seems insignificant.

Hold on, King of Plegia? Didn't Valm....

Ohhhhhh boy. 

So without Chrom and the others to stop them, Valm probably came in, took over everything, (read: Conquered) and bailed. So yeah, no Ferox, Ylisse, or Plegia. Everything is Valm.

And that bdings is back to Plegia (Valm). Supposedly, in Lucina's reality, Robin kills Chrom after they kill Validar, then Robin revives Grima, is brought under his control, and all that stuff. 

But Chrom is already dead!

Would Robin have been killed in Chapter 6 as well? Validar didn't know he was there... this is all very confusing and I'm losing my place...

Overall this whole thing doesn't make sense. How is Chrom killed in Chapter 6 but has Lucina? How is he then killed by Robin? How do the children exist? Especially Owain and possible Chrom child number 2? How many years in the future is Lucina's reality? Who's the king of Plegia? Does it matter with Valm having conquered everything? Why is this so confusing? Does Nintendo really think they can do timelines? Does this rash look serious to you? So many questions that can't be answered... I wish I could, but I'm no MatPat, I don't theorize things. Maybe I could if I put some more thought into it, but I'm busy.

 

What do you guys think of this?

[De Geso]

Chrom was only severely injured in the assassination attempt in Ch.6 (without Lucina's intervention). It was always said that he was killed by his best friend (Robin). 

[Big Smoke]

1 minute ago, YouSquiddinMe said:

Chrom was only severely injured in the assassination attempt in Ch.6 (without Lucina's intervention). It was always said that he was killed by his best friend (Robin). 

Ah. In the cutscene of Chapter 6 (where Lucina saves Chrom) she says "I'm about to save your life... from him". That makes me assume that Chrom would be killed by him (assassin).

[HK Motendra]

Well I mean.... I don't think that particular scene was meant to be taken so heavily. I mean, after all, the only reason she was there at all was to stop Emmeryn's assasination; that she had to "save" Chrom to prove that she knew what was happening was only a means to an end

As for Lissa dying in CH1, the same thing applies, somewhat. There's a chance that Chrom could have saved her instead, but seeing "Marth" reach her first stopped him. That, OR, because in her time there was no Dragon's Gate to appear out of, its very possible that that very event could have never happened, since the Risen were actually coming from Lucina's future, just as she did, and just as Grima did, who the Risen come from. At that time, Grima had yet to revive, and as a result, there would be no Risen to attack them

[Sock]

3 hours ago, Big Smoke said:

Ah. In the cutscene of Chapter 6 (where Lucina saves Chrom) she says "I'm about to save your life... from him". That makes me assume that Chrom would be killed by him (assassin).

You missed this part in Ch14:

Lissa
Hey, so wait—what about the guys who tried to kill Chrom in the gardens? What would've happened if you didn't save him?

Lucina
He would have been gravely wounded. And those wounds would have played a part in the tragedies to come.

[Big Smoke]

Ironically enough, I just played ch 14 and noticed that line, and said, huh. That's kinda conflicting. I suppose it's likely that he would just be injured, but then, why does she say she's saving his life? I suppose it could be to prove a point. the other points still stand though

[Etrurian emperor]

Chrom being alive at the dual against Validar means he can't have died against Assasins. Most people already pointed out arguments to that effect. Emyrin did die and couldn't end the war sooner by being a martyr. The war is more destructive but ends with a victory for Chrom. Maybe the war lasted longer which would delay the final fight against Validar and give the Shepherds some time to get children and raise them to a certain age. Lucina did say Chrom train her how to fight so we can assume she wasn't a baby at the dragon's table like she is in the Awakening timeline. 

The Valm arc might go on the same way as it did the original timeline, only with Basilio dying in it. Then comes the fight at the dragon table and the bad future starts.

I always assumed that the Risen who attacked Lisa were also from the future and that in the original timeline that skirmish never happened and Lisa was never in danger.

 

[Big Smoke]

1 minute ago, Etrurian emperor said:

Chrom being alive at the dual against Validar means he can't have died against Assasins. Most people already pointed out arguments to that effect. Emyrin did die and couldn't end the war sooner by being a martyr. The war is more destructive but ends with a victory for Chrom. Maybe the war lasted longer which would delay the final fight against Validar and give the Shepherds some time to get children and raise them to a certain age. Lucina did say Chrom train her how to fight so we can assume she wasn't a baby at the dragon's table like she is in the Awakening timeline. 

The Valm arc might go on the same way as it did the original timeline, only with Basilio dying in it. Then comes the fight at the dragon table and the bad future starts.

I always assumed that the Risen who attacked Lisa were also from the future and that in the original timeline that skirmish never happened and Lisa was never in danger.

 

You bring up a good point about the Risen.

 

all the other stuff, I suppose we'll never know unless nintendo wants to tell us something, which they won't.

[Zapp Branniglenn]

Yeah, Lucina's line of "I'm about to save your life..." is pretty misleading. The only narrative reason I can think of being that she really needed Chrom to prepare for an emergency as soon as possible, hence the drawing of her sword and word choice. But it's a definite plot contrivance that could have been avoided if the line was "I'm about to save your sister's life...". Even if that particular assassin is just the one that attacks Chrom.

The Lissa being saved in Chapter 1 is a bit harder to decipher. I like to think that the only reason those Risen attacked, (and the only reason Risen exist at all before Grima's resurrection) is because these come from Lucina's future, sent by her version of Grima. I'm also pretty sure the Grima you fight at the end of the game is that same bad future Grima as well. It's hard to say what's really changed between Awakening's events and Lucina's timeline, as we only get snippets of story from hers. Maybe the DLC has answers but I haven't played it.

[Aurabolt]

...I came to this forum for the sole purpose of proposing a Meta Sequel to Awakening set in Lucina's timeline and factoring the reset done by Anankos in Fates. Then I found this thread ^_^

 

4 hours ago, Gustavos said:

The Lissa being saved in Chapter 1 is a bit harder to decipher. I like to think that the only reason those Risen attacked, (and the only reason Risen exist at all before Grima's resurrection) is because these come from Lucina's future, sent by her version of Grima. I'm also pretty sure the Grima you fight at the end of the game is that same bad future Grima as well. It's hard to say what's really changed between Awakening's events and Lucina's timeline, as we only get snippets of story from hers. Maybe the DLC has answers but I haven't played it.

Eh...I always looked at the Risen showing up then to be a direct result of Lucina and Grima!Robin appearing around the same time. More specifically, Lucina happening to arrive from her world at that moment in that location. Lissa probably would have been killed if Lucina arrived in the same area she traveled to the past. We know from Laurent's backstory Time Travel isn't an exact science as he'd gone further back in time than the others by about 3 years. It's also Likely Morgan is from a different timeline entirely since none of the others know him/her from their world. Anyways, Lucina should have popped up near Naga's Temple but she instead warps in several miles away in the past. Talk about damned good timing.

What I find interesting that I haven't seen alot of folks comment on is the liklihood Grima arrived in the past before Lucina did. Grima himself states after you down Validar for good the first thing he did when we went back in time was try to merge with his past self's consciousness. The attempt failed and the shock of the attempt erased just about all of his/her past self's memories. We know his power rivals Naga's so even though he left for the past after Lucina, he would have gotten there first. Since he couldn't merge with his past self, he had to set things in motion to (re)claim the power he had in his own time.
 

...Playing the Future Past DLC maps explains what was going on in Lucina's world before she and the others went back in time. Get them and play them as alot of the holes you're thinking of is explained.


 

[Aurabolt]

Back to my initial thought: What if a full game was made based on Lucina's timeline?

We know Chrom's death was what sealed her world's fate. I say Chrom's death and not Emmeryn or even Walhart's even though both had the potential to unify the world against Grima. It's very likely this was why Grima advised Validar to help Chrom indirectly when they turned to Plegia for help with Valm. We know for sure Ylisse and Ferox fought against Valm since Basilio is killed by Walhart according to Lucina.

Of course, we also know Validar isn't supposed to die when he's killed in Chapter 6 thanks to the opening battle in Awakening. Grima stepped in when necessary to ensure the course of history stayed as close to Lucina's as possible. Emmeryn wasn't killed that night and thanks to her Spotpass Map we know unlike Walhart or Gangrel (who were both definitely killed) she somehow survived her "death". Walhart was likely defeated by Chrom so Grima needed to ensure Walhart was defeated, too. As Aversa states later on, he was a threat to their plans and jumped at the opportunity to Chrom gave them to have Walhart removed from the picture.

Now, Grima!Robin probably merged with Grima's consciousness after he and Chrom downed Validar in the opening battle. Robin being so close to The Table was what made Grima's awakening possible. One interesting detail we don't know is how the Robin in Lucina's world met Chrom but it's likely Robin was raised in Ylisse. Validar states Robin's mother left with him/her when he/she was a baby and it's unlikely Robin's mother fled to Ylisse, whe she raised Robin. That Future Robin probably knew he/she was from Plegia but little more than that...until he/she merged with Grima.

I think most of the other 2nd gen chars were born after Chrom's death. Lissa was probably pregnant with Owain around the time Chrom was killed or just had him since he's not much younger than Lucina. Over the 17 or so years that follow, the parents of the 2nd gen raised the kids in hiding for as long as they could until they were all eventually killed by the Risen.

Getting back to Morgan, in the Future Past DLC both Morgans appear and fight for Grima to stop Lucina's forces. Those Morgans were likely born to Grima!Robin shortly after they became one in Lucina's world. The biggest clue is Lucina and the others have no memory of either Morgan in the present even if Morgan is a sibling. Either that or as I said before, Morgan comes from a totally different timeline.
 

[Sock]

On 2017-02-12 at 2:14 PM, Big Smoke said:

Ironically enough, I just played ch 14 and noticed that line, and said, huh. That's kinda conflicting. I suppose it's likely that he would just be injured, but then, why does she say she's saving his life? I suppose it could be to prove a point. the other points still stand though

Dramatic flair. You're reading way too much into this one line.

Flair, and localization changes. The JP dialogue is different in that scene: Lucina calls out to the assassin in the bushes, something like "I know you're there, show yourself."