Updated FE12 translation patch (Beta 2 released!)

[Hero of the Fire Emblems]

1 hour ago, Ranger Jack Walker said:

In Archanea, the Regalia only refers to the 3 weapons of Archanea: Gradivus, Mercurius and Parthia. No other weapon can be given that title in Archanea.

Hauteclere has no association with Macedon in particular. It has no connection to Macedon beyond that, unlike the Regalia, which were weapons stolen by Adrah and used in his battles to form Archanea thus giving them historical significance to the kingdom of Archanea or the Iote's Shield which is named after Macedon's founder, also giving it historical significance to Macedon. Hauteclere is simply a powerful axe that Minerva uses, nothing more. No historical significance, no legendary status.

Definitely not a Regalia because that is a specific title given only to the 3 weapons of Archanea, not a general term for great weapons.

It's actually called The Three Regalia. Note the capitalization there; they specifically are called something unique from pure "regalia" in Archanea. I'd classify Iote's Shield as a regalia based on this as well as well as Aura, Starlight, Excalibur, and arguably Hauteclere. They'd be regalia, not The Three Regalia. It's also worth pointing out someone says Hauteclere is "as strong as the Three Regalia". Hauteclere is also classified as a regalia by both Awakening and Tokyo Mirage Sessions for what it's worth.

The reason this is important is because the Three Regalia are probably an allusion to the Three Regalia of Japan, just like the Archanean Allied Forces in the japanese version being changed to the "Archanean League" is possibly to parallel the Achaean League which opposed the real life Macedon.

On the subject of Aimee, it's the same character from Shadow Dragon and she was Larabel in Shadow Dragon's US version; this is a patch based on the US release of the games and particularly Shadow Dragon. As stated before, consistency with the sub series the game is a part of > consistency with other sub series, but Aimee Larabel being her full title in her letter could be a good compromise between both of her US names. If not, we are likely obligated to go with Larabel based on consistency with US names and Shadow Dragon in particular taking the highest priority of the english games for this particular patch (with FE Echoes being second, due to it's chronological proximity to FE11/12, and Awakening third, I'd imagine)

Edited February 26, 2017 by Hero of the Fire Emblems

[King Marth 64]

2 hours ago, Seafarer said:

Okay...

1) I realise you aren't a native English speaker, but things like this that contain large amounts of grammar and syntax errors are difficult to read.

2) Awakening kept the PAL names of characters. Heroes did not, but Heroes (and Fates, for that matter) didn't get localised into British-English anyway; the PAL-region versions are just the US-NTSC versions with different region coding (if that). I don't know about TMS#FE, because I haven't played it.

3) If I recall correctly, the PAL localisation of FE8 uses the US names of countries on the world map, despite the terrible romaji names used in the actual script. I'm assuming NoE decided that the world-map names were the better choice when it came time to localise Awakening (praise Naga).

1. I'm a College Special Ed Student trying to improve my skill for my future goal, I did passed Grammar and Mechanics in last semester and in English 99 right now. But, let's try to be relevant to the discussion on this thread.
2. Ok, thanks for the info about it.

By the way @joesteve1914, until you get done fixing the patch with changing with all the NOA names, can you make a separate patch for the PAL players using the PAL-only names from the PAL version of Shadow Dragon and change Casual Mode to Newcome Mode since the PAL localization of Awakening has that?

Edited February 27, 2017 by King Marth 64

[Prince of Iris]

The PAL version of Fates renamed Newcomer back to Casual, so I don't think Newcomer should be used anymore.

[js394]

1 minute ago, King Marth 64 said:

1. I'm a College Special Ed Student trying to improve my skill for my future goal, I did passed Gramma and Mechanics in last semester and in English 99 right now. But, let's try to be relevant to the discussion on this thread.
2. Ok, thanks for the info about it.

By the way @joesteve1914, until you get done fixing the patch with changing with all the NOA names, can you make a separate patch for the PAL players using the PAL-only names from the PAL version of Shadow Dragon and change Casual Mode to Newcome Mode since the PAL localization of Awakening has that?

I can't make any promises, but if it's not too much work I suppose I could do that after the American patch is finalized.

[Iridium]

If we're going to bring up consistency with The Binding Blade, keep in mind that we haven't exactly been consistent with it before: Binding Blade and Blazing Blade are referred to with two different romanizations of the word for sword. To be perfectly consistent with Fire Emblem 7 referring to Durandal as the Blazing Blade -- which has become unquestionable canon as of Heroes, by the way -- FE6 should not use the word 'Blade'.

But it does. So that's half of the title already having been made inconsistent. Why should we try to be consistent with the other half? At least with Smash's "The Binding Blade (featuring the Sword of Seals)" we could at least just call it a title change and be done, but now we no longer have swords nor seals anywhere.

The problem with trying to go with "Binding Shield" is that "The Binding Blade" is already a mistake. It is one that we are no longer able to fix, because it has become too prominent to change. You can continue trying to hang onto it, but it's like trying to stay on a sinking ship -- if you do so, then you're stuck with all sorts of stupid stuff like the Binding Buckler and the Bondage Bethel if you just want to hang on to the feel of the names we have now. Alternatively, you could lose the alliteration and get the BS that is the Binding Shrine and the whatever that is Binding Shield. And for all of those sacrifices you'd still be inconsistent with the closest thing we have to a name for the shield itself in English, however trivial it might be.

There are two real options for the name: holding on to something that cannot support the weight you're trying to force it to bear, or just giving up and letting papa 8-4 take the blame. In this case I'd honestly recommend just cutting your losses and going with Sealing Shield. At the end of the day, the Binding Blade is definitely a reference to the Sealing Shield, but they're not the same object and have no relationship to each other beyond both involving the Fire Emblem and being equipment of some sort. Anyone who has played both games can probably immediately recognize that The Binding Blade is the store-brand version of Mystery of the Emblem anyway, and we don't need to go the extra mile to respect a parallel that NOA does not.

-

As for the matter of a certain shopkeeper, I'd go with Larabel for a similar reason. Changing it to Aimee in the first place was a mistake, and changing it back to Larabel was probably an even bigger one since there's no obvious reason for either name to be important (e.g. theme naming, like certain gushing grannies or princesses) and Aimee actually has a decent amount of dialogue. But the two characters are ultimately (probably) not the same entity, just as we have multiple Jakes and Annas, and consistency with Shadow Dragon (in this case Larabel, because we are otherwise using the North American names) is more important than consistency with Tellius. So go with Larabel.

If you want to retcon it Eggman-style as Larabel "Aimee" McVendor or something like that, wait for NOA to do it so we can blame them for it. They created that inconsistency and they can resolve it themselves; we do not need to introduce fanon to explain it for them.

Edited February 27, 2017 by Iridium

[VincentASM]

In Shadow Dragon, "Regalia" was the name used for Archanea's three weapons. They were literally called the "3 Weapons" in Japanese, which was super boring.

Then Awakening and onward decided to use Regalia to refer to any and all holy weapons. So Hauteclere isn't one of the 3 Regalia, but it could be considered a Regalia of some form.

[Hero of the Fire Emblems]

6 hours ago, Iridium said:

If we're going to bring up consistency with The Binding Blade, keep in mind that we haven't exactly been consistent with it before: Binding Blade and Blazing Blade are referred to with two different romanizations of the word for sword. To be perfectly consistent with Fire Emblem 7 referring to Durandal as the Blazing Blade -- which has become unquestionable canon as of Heroes, by the way -- FE6 should not use the word 'Blade'.

But it does. So that's half of the title already having been made inconsistent. Why should we try to be consistent with the other half? At least with Smash's "The Binding Blade (featuring the Sword of Seals)" we could at least just call it a title change and be done, but now we no longer have swords nor seals anywhere.

The problem with trying to go with "Binding Shield" is that "The Binding Blade" is already a mistake. It is one that we are no longer able to fix, because it has become too prominent to change. You can continue trying to hang onto it, but it's like trying to stay on a sinking ship -- if you do so, then you're stuck with all sorts of stupid stuff like the Binding Buckler and the Bondage Bethel if you just want to hang on to the feel of the names we have now. Alternatively, you could lose the alliteration and get the BS that is the Binding Shrine and the whatever that is Binding Shield. And for all of those sacrifices you'd still be inconsistent with the closest thing we have to a name for the shield itself in English, however trivial it might be.

There are two real options for the name: holding on to something that cannot support the weight you're trying to force it to bear, or just giving up and letting papa 8-4 take the blame. In this case I'd honestly recommend just cutting your losses and going with Sealing Shield. At the end of the day, the Binding Blade is definitely a reference to the Sealing Shield, but they're not the same object and have no relationship to each other beyond both involving the Fire Emblem and being equipment of some sort. Anyone who has played both games can probably immediately recognize that The Binding Blade is the store-brand version of Mystery of the Emblem anyway, and we don't need to go the extra mile to respect a parallel that NOA does not.

The original FE1 and FE11 have titles of Ankoku Ryu to Hikari no Tsurugi and Shin Ankoku Ryu to Hikari no Ken

theyre both intended to be the same word though which is sword, and the fandom never prior to Brawl translated FE7 and FE6 as blades. They translated it both as "sword" because ken and tsurugi are both literally interchangeable. Both can be accurately translated as either sword or blade; this is actually demonstrated with actual in game sword staples of the series on occasion flipping between the two iirc. Just because one item uses Fuuin and translates it as Binding does not and should not force every instance of the word "fuuin" in the series to be translated as Binding like you suggest is the case here. Translation and localization doesn't work like that and for good reason.

However, both the Binding Blade and Binding Shield are supposed to have specific connection to each other by way of being counterparts. In this specific instance, we have demonstratable intent that they made them both "Binding" or "Sealing" for a reason (I digress here, but Sword of Seals always came off as horrifically cringey Engrish to me personally like smash is known to provide. If we went the seal route I'd have strongly suggested Sealing Sword, since it demonstrates it can seal things (Idun) rather than being a sword associated with some kind of set of seals which it isn't really until FE7, but here we are at Binding), and the name is meant to emphasize their parallel nature intentionally. That's WHY we came to Binding Shield in the first place, not a backwards 1:1 translation methodology for words (Japanese to English isn't 1:1) but consistency with FE6. I think the Heroes of Shadow realized at that point Binding Blade was sticking and went with it.

NoA themselves don't personally translate capcom games either afaik so it's probable whoever came to Sealing Shield has no connection to the localizers of Fire Emblem, be they 8-4 or Treehouse.

Of course I'm not defending 8-4 here, they somehow got "Swan" out of "Raven Laguz" in support conversations.

[Prince of Iris]

I agree with and would like to reiterate the point that naming the two items Binding isn't necessarily more effective at representing the relationship between them than using similar but different words.

Again, Sealing Shield already perfectly describes what it does and is already synonymous with the ability of the Binding Blade, and by keeping the names not explicitly similar, it becomes easier to distinguish that their relationship is tenuous at best and not suggestive that there's anything more to it than that. The names shouldn't potentially mislead anyone into believing that they could be items that exist in the same world by both being called Binding.

I understand why Binding Shield came into existence, and while I respect it, I do think Sealing Shield is a better name now that it's come up.

[js394]

Alright I still have to go back and do a detailed review of the last two pages of this thread, but I finally got access to my computer again so I can work on this. 

- Angelic Robe has been changed to Seraph Robe

- I've changed Kleine to Clarisse. Are we going with Agnes on this? Imo that's the best way to go. 

- I'll take a look (hopefully today) at the Ice Dragon Shrine vs. Temple thing. Does anyone have a save file (battery or state is fine) of that chapter? That would be a big help.

- Binding vs. Sealing - I'm more of the mind that localizations aren't "official" if they're not in a main FE game. SSB called FE6 "Sword of Seals" and also called Rutger "Rutoga". And that was a first party Nintendo game, not a completely different third party game that had FE characters as guest characters. This is still up for debate I think though, like I said I have to read through the thread closely and see everyone's arguments for it/against it.

- As far as the Aimee/Larabel thing goes, how about I just make it "Larabel" in the American patch that I do and "Aimee" in the European one? I don't want to make her name a combination of both since it's pretty clear that's not the case, NoA just screwed up. 

 

@VincentASM The vwf system that you guys implemented is really impressive :D I had always assumed that you wrote the smaller text across a few glyphs (like the FE2 patch does) but it's actually a custom vwf 

Although it does make editing the text a little harder since the text editor doesn't seem to work with it :D

[RJWalker]

If she's called Larabel in Shadow Dragon, then why is there even a discussion?

[js394]

10 minutes ago, Ranger Jack Walker said:

If she's called Larabel in Shadow Dragon, then why is there even a discussion?

It's a long story :D

She appears in FE9, FE10, and FE11, and is mentioned in FE12. Across those games her name is "Larabel" in Japanese. NoA and NoE changed her name to "Aimee" in FE9 and FE10. But when FE11 came out, NoA translated it as "Larabel", while NoE translated it as "Aimee".

Edited March 1, 2017 by joesteve1914

[Prince of Iris]

I would be inclined to suggest just calling her Larabel since that's her most recent name and of course would be consistent with Shadow Dragon's North American localization, which this patch is already basing itself off of, although perhaps it may be worth considering having her called Aimee in an alternative patch with the other European names. I don't really agree with the idea that Larabel was a mistake though, it's entirely possible it was a deliberate change just as Navarre, Caeda, Archanea, etc. are also deliberate changes and aren't considered mistakes.

The arguing points in favor of Sealing aren't saying that it should be used just because it appears in a game and therefore is official, but because it is a mechanically more effective name than Binding and its sole appearance may suggest that the relevant parties are probably okay with it, whereas Binding doesn't really have anything in its favor.

[RedEyedDrake]

@PoI:

Those "aren't considered mistakes" because they straighten out the Engrish into something actually comes across as proper names in the English language, even when they are made up names that aren't even referencing anything. A name like "Dolhr" is the one that really illustrates the point that I'm trying to make here, I think.

Also, what do you mean by "mechanically more effective"? And 'Binding' has plenty in its favor, as has been pointed out a few times already. Is the deliberate design of an entire game in the franchise not enough on its own? Not to mention the matter of using the exact same word (and if one doesn't use this as a guideline then there is no actual reason not go ahead and throw synonyms around left and right, which is obviously not the way to go about it). How is an out-of-franchise source worth more than these?

Edited March 2, 2017 by RedEyedDrake

[Prince of Iris]

I figure Dolhr's name is an example of liberty made in localization as an attempt to make the name sound more appealing, and would strongly disagree with the idea that there's anything wrong with it, if that's what you're saying. I personally prefer it over its other names as it sounds more exotic and befitting of an evil place, similar to Nohr in Fates. In any case, while Larabel is certainly a different name from Aimee, suggesting that the change is a mistake or error doesn't seem like a fair assessment to me, as Larabel is in fact an actual, real world name (if only more obscure), and it's not like the series isn't afraid giving characters different names through localization. Still, I do think it's pretty odd that they would go out of their way to drastically rename the character who already had an English name, but I guess weirder things have happened.

Calling it Sealing Shield is more effective than Binding Shield because Sealing Shield allows the name have less room for confusion that it is not actually related to the Binding Blade. Just as many other elements between Archanea and Elibe are, the two items do appear to be deliberately similar to each other, but I think it would be inappropriate to make an effort to put that similarity on a pedestal by emphasizing it with the exact same word, because the connection is very superficial. The nuance and subtlety of using similar words supports the narrative that they are just that: similar, but not quite related. And I am aware that the original Japanese names do use the same word, and while you could argue that having them both to be Binding makes more sense because they're also the same in Japanese, doing that would undermine the potential that localization allows for using the language to its potential. There is no drawback to using Sealing over Binding because the words are already synonymous with each other and sticking with Binding does not provide any actual benefit like Sealing does. And even if the shield never appeared in Monster Hunter, it doesn't affect the point that Sealing Shield still works better as a name for it than Binding Shield for the aforementioned reasons.

Edited March 2, 2017 by Prince of Iris

[RedEyedDrake]

Once again, is the deliberate design of an entire game not enough? The connection isn't superficial in the slightest. And the Binding Blade isn't even a part of this specific Fire Emblem universe. There is nothing to get confused over.

Edited March 2, 2017 by RedEyedDrake

[eclipse]

On 3/1/2017 at 8:29 AM, joesteve1914 said:

- I've changed Kleine to Clarisse. Are we going with Agnes on this? Imo that's the best way to go.

I'm not sure if you completely ignored my name suggestion, or it got lost in the thread.

[js394]

12 hours ago, eclipse said:

I'm not sure if you completely ignored my name suggestion, or it got lost in the thread.

Yeah I still haven't read the thread thoroughly yet. Thanks for letting me know :)

So as far as the new name for Eine goes, we have either "Agnes" or "Aurora". I'll put a poll up asap.

[RedEyedDrake]

Just don't forget to include the reasoning behind each. These names would be just names otherwise.

[King Marth 64]

By the way, I noticed Tokyo Mirage Sessions #FE has Medeus in it and his exclusive class that was originally from Mystery of the Emblem and New Mystery of the Emblem that the Medeus's class was in it that we haven't covered it from the other localized Fire Emblem games, but was his class name is actually called "Shadow Dragon" or was it "Dark Dragon" in the English version (I tried to look to see if his class name showed up for Tokyo Mirage Sessions #FE was marked up in there or not, but I can't seem to find it not don't have that game yet), since that was the only localized Fire Emblem game that have that class in it. But, I did seen the dialogue from Shadow Dragon refers to Medeus as the "Shadow Dragon" and that exclusive Dragon class was in New Mystery of the Emblem. I know that the previous patch for New Mystery of the Emblem has the class labeled as "Shadow Dragon" since the game title and Medeus' title from Shadow Dragon has it marked up as "Shadow Dragon".

 

Also, I did noticed that Dark Breath was still remained as Dark Breath since it has appeared in Fates for Garon's Blight Dragon class and Heroes for Corrin as well, but I don't exactly remembered that the previous patch still has Dark Breath remained as Dark Breath or it got changed to Shadow Breath?

 

Edited March 6, 2017 by King Marth 64

[js394]

2 hours ago, King Marth 64 said:

By the way, I noticed Tokyo Mirage Sessions #FE has Medeus in it and his exclusive class that was originally from Mystery of the Emblem and New Mystery of the Emblem that the Medeus's class was in it that we haven't covered it from the other localized Fire Emblem games, but was his class name is actually called "Shadow Dragon" or was it "Dark Dragon" in the English version (I tried to look to see if his class name showed up for Tokyo Mirage Sessions #FE was marked up in there or not, but I can't seem to find it not don't have that game yet), since that was the only localized Fire Emblem game that have that class in it. But, I did seen the dialogue from Shadow Dragon refers to Medeus as the "Shadow Dragon" and that exclusive Dragon class was in New Mystery of the Emblem. I know that the previous patch for New Mystery of the Emblem has the class labeled as "Shadow Dragon" since the game title and Medeus' title from Shadow Dragon has it marked up as "Shadow Dragon".

I don't have the game either, but I can't imagine it wouldn't be "Shadow Dragon". If someone who has the game can confirm that would be great, but I think it's safe to say that they kept it as "Shadow Dragon".

Quote

Also, I did noticed that Dark Breath was still remained as Dark Breath since it has appeared in Fates for Garon's Blight Dragon class and Heroes for Corrin as well, but I don't exactly remembered that the previous patch still has Dark Breath remained as Dark Breath or it got changed to Shadow Breath?

Yeah it's "Dark Breath" in the current 3.01 patch.

 

I've read the thread and haven't decided between Binding or Sealing yet... I want to get this patch out soon so I'll leave it as "Binding" for now. I think there's more pressing matters than this :D

 

 

Also, is it possible to create a poll in this thread? I don't see an option for it. 

Edited March 7, 2017 by joesteve1914

[Lady Sansa]

There are no official names outside of Japan. Most of those are cringey as fuck.

[RedEyedDrake]

@joe:

I'd suggest waiting until after at least the Japanese release of Shadows of Valentia, preferably until after the English release as well. Just to be certain that you won't have to edit the game over again in the case of SoV necessitating any changes. Especially given how it will include at least one new character and that it not only takes place in the Kagaverse but during Marth's era as well. After all, nobody knows what the IS people will end up doing.

Edited March 7, 2017 by RedEyedDrake

[js394]

On 3/7/2017 at 0:07 PM, RedEyedDrake said:

@joe:

I'd suggest waiting until after at least the Japanese release of Shadows of Valentia, preferably until after the English release as well. Just to be certain that you won't have to edit the game over again in the case of SoV necessitating any changes. Especially given how it will include at least one new character and that it not only takes place in the Kagaverse but during Marth's era as well. After all, nobody knows what the IS people will end up doing.

I've been considering that, but I've been reluctant since I started this in February and that would mean it would be a three month wait for the patch :O

Maybe I'll wait, idk yet.

 

@eclipse Is there a way to add a poll to the OP? Or is that locked to new topics only?

[eclipse]

4 hours ago, joesteve1914 said:

@eclipse Is there a way to add a poll to the OP? Or is that locked to new topics only?

Polls are REALLY wonky right now - they can be added to new topics, but not for existing ones. Waiting for the back-end stuff to finish (one day) before I bug Jyo about it again.

[Hero of the Fire Emblems]

On 3/6/2017 at 8:30 PM, joesteve1914 said:

I don't have the game either, but I can't imagine it wouldn't be "Shadow Dragon". If someone who has the game can confirm that would be great, but I think it's safe to say that they kept it as "Shadow Dragon".

Yeah it's "Dark Breath" in the current 3.01 patch.

 

I've read the thread and haven't decided between Binding or Sealing yet... I want to get this patch out soon so I'll leave it as "Binding" for now. I think there's more pressing matters than this :D

 

 

Also, is it possible to create a poll in this thread? I don't see an option for it. 

I tried to beat TMS to check this

But alas

Breath of the Wild came out and sucked my determination away for now

Soon, soon

Also be wary, even though it's listed as True Sword Falchion online it's only True Falchion ingame

People need to play more TMS and update the Wikis more