joesteve1914

Updated FE12 translation patch (Beta 2 released!)

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One change I might suggest is to change the Angelic Robe to the Seraph Robe to keep it more in line with the FE games after the GBA games.

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1 minute ago, blueasian said:

One change I might suggest is to change the Angelic Robe to the Seraph Robe to keep it more in line with the FE games after the GBA games.

 

It's not the Seraph Robe already? It's Seraph Robe in FE11 right?

No excuse to not be Seraph Robe if it's that in FE11...

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@Hero:

Oh. Thank you. I thought I saw Naga being referred to as 'the Divine Dragon King' somewhere in FE11. Just to be certain, though, do you remember any instances of such character titles from the previous game? I don't think Navarre and Minerva ever had theirs mentioned in that one and those two are the main ones that I'm concerned with in regards to this update.

@joe:

Well, I guess the 'Divine Dragon Ruler' thing should dropped. Also, yes. The Seraph Robe is referred to as the 'Angelic Robe' in the current translation for some reason even though FE11 called it the Seraph Robe. That should get fixed too.

Edited by RedEyedDrake

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On 2/16/2017 at 2:17 AM, RedEyedDrake said:

6. Well, if nothing else, I figure that Minerva's support conversations with Palla having her talk about how she couldn't rule as well as she could "wield a lance/spear" is a bit odd. I mean, them sparring via lance vs lance combat is acceptable but the wording I just listed? That makes it sound as if Minerva's main weapon is the lance. Which it most definitely isn't. Oh, but please agree and do what I have been asking for here for the avatar. Seeing my mage guy talk about swords is on a whole different level.

Also, the thing about Michalis. He is the crown prince of Macedon. Macedon's only weapon regalia is an axe. So him having lances as his preferred weapon is also odd. You'd think he would have been trained to favor axes so that he could wield the Hauteclere.

Like a week late, but while I kinda agree on the point of changing Minerva's weapon mention to reference her primary weapon type rather than her secondary one, Hauteclere actually isn't any sort of regalia of Macedon or anything like that. A villager in... I think Chapter 8 or 10 or so of Shadow Dragon states that nobody knows where it came from or who made it, but that it's an incredibly powerful weapon. I don't think it's supposed to be associated with Macedon in particular; it's just a super strong axe, and Minerva's currently the one wielding it.

Macedon does have a defined regalia item, though, but it's actually Iote's Shield, not Hauteclere.

Edited by Topaz Light

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I used the term 'regalia' loosely there. It was supposed to be synonymous with the term 'strongest weapon of its kind in the game' (though, if we simply compare weapon power, then I'm pretty sure that the Hauteclere is the strongest weapon in this game, period).

Edited by RedEyedDrake

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@RedEyedDrake

Oh, I know how you were using the word; I just meant that Minerva being the one to wield it is the only thing that really suggests that Hauteclere is associated with Macedon and its royal family in particular. It's definitely very much Archanea's "Legendary Axe" as of the DS remakes, but the degree to which it's associated with Macedon/its royal family specifically is rather dubious.

Edited by Topaz Light

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@Topaz:

How is it dubious? It is wielded by a member of the Macedonian royal family in battle. And Iote's Shield wasn't paraded around much either. But that is simply because Macedon is neither Altea nor Archanea and thus doesn't get much, if any, fanfare. And I mean really, what other sort of condition do you need fulfilled to consider something as regalia of a kingdom that is not an Altea, Archanea and/or Dolhr equivalent in a Fire Emblem game?

Edited by RedEyedDrake

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7 hours ago, RedEyedDrake said:

@Hero:

Oh.  Thank you. I thought I saw Naga being referred to as 'the Divine Dragon King' somewhere in FE11. Just to be certain, though, do you remember any instances of such character titles from the previous game? I don't think Navarre and Minerva ever had theirs mentioned in that one and those two are the main ones that I'm concerned with in regards to this update.

@joe:

Well, I guess the 'Divine Dragon Ruler' thing should dropped. Also, yes. The Seraph Robe is referred to as the 'Angelic Robe' in the current translation for some reason even though FE11 called it the Seraph Robe. That should get fixed too.

I looked for the specific context of it, and FE11's description for Falchion is quote "A gift from the Divine Dragon King. For Marth." 

So FE11 firmly refers to Naga as male or at the very least as a "King", while also having Nagi. I don't think both NoA and NoE are completely brain dead so Nagi being literally Naga in the game files likely tipped them off, but who can say for sure?

Naga being referred to as being gender fluid (both male and female) in Awakening's localization would make referring to Naga as female only really inconsistent with both of the other Archanea games' localizations. Now, maybe there could be SOME references to Naga being female that could fly but the title of Divine Dragon King is used firmly in FE11 (and possibly Awakening but I'm less sure about if it was used there since I haven't played Awakening in ages). It seems Archaneans mainly considered Naga to be male as evidenced by FE3's intro or at best both/neither gender.

As for Minerva and Navarre I think Minerva might have been mentioned in a chapter intro but I don't think Navarre was mentioned at all with a title. I'll end up playing FE11 down the line to double check.

 

Also

 

for the love of all things holy please keep it Binding Shield. The connection to the Binding Blade is both explicit, intentional, and very much present- The Binding Blade is literally a fusion of Falchion (Same moniker of "Blade of Light", heals when used as an item, dragonslaying sword) and the Binding Shield (sealing away dragons, needing to have a spherical orb inserted into it's hilt to activate it's true power). Elibe is strongly implied to be literally a counterpart of Archanea- in the LORE sense, that Archanea and Elibe are parallel worlds. So the intention is there to explicitly connect the Binding Blade to the Binding Shield, since they are parallel world counterparts essentially.

BB is alliterative and Sealing Shield is also alliterative so the connection might still work if Nintendo uses it outside of MH, but since that is not the case yet, I think the connection to the Binding Blade would be more obvious to people that don't actually analyze the lore if you leave it as Binding Shield. People in passing I feel are far less likely to pick up on the Archanea and Elibe connection/reflection between the two items with Sealing Shield which only connects to the BB on account of also being alliterative.

Edited by Hero of the Fire Emblems

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@Hero:

Don't expect consistency from modern IS. They'll present things in any way, say anything and change things on the fly as long as that would get them the most yen. The team behind Shadows of Valentia might end up being the only exception (at least for now) but the previous traits apply to the company as a whole.

No, seriously, just don't bother. It isn't worth it.

Edited by RedEyedDrake

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11 minutes ago, RedEyedDrake said:

@Hero:

Don't expect consistency from modern IS. They'll present things in any way, say anything and change things on the fly as long as that would get them the most yen, with the team behind Shadows of Valentia possibly ending up being the only exception. At least for now.

No, seriously, just don't bother. It isn't worth it.

Eh, both of these issues are localization specific. The ball is in NoA's court for Binding Shield/Blade and the Naga gender thing.

The names are still connected in the Japanese version since they indeed have the same word, and in Awakening NoA threw in that Naga is both genders to make their localizations consistent. IS just makes the original Japanese games and both of these issues are specific to English localized games put out by NoA and consistency with localized media, media localized by either treehouse or 8-4.

Speaking of, I have an idea

For the letter signature, we can make her write her full name as "Aimee Larabel". Or vice versa, Larabel Aimee.

That way we make it consistent with both Tellius and FE11 by making them a first and last name. Anyone think that can work?

(also another interesting "Dub induced" issue since she's larabel in all Japanese games including Tellius)

Edited by Hero of the Fire Emblems

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21 hours ago, King Marth 64 said:

I'm going with Sealing Shield since Binding Shield sounds more like it's related and connected to Binding Blade. Also, I don't see @joesteve1914 mentioned anything about changing the fan name of the game title to official name title (New Mystery of the Emblem) and putting "Avatar" name (I'm not talking about Kris' default name) in the game that we mentioned about.

Sorry, been a little busy this week. I'm not sure about the title, everyone has brought up valid points about it. I don't know why NoA did it considering shadow dragon has "new" in its Japanese title as well... but it's official I guess. 

As for the avatar name - afaik, the term 'Avatar' is the official localization of 'My Unit'. Is that even used in the game? I looked at the avatar creation part and it didn't appear there. If I'm wrong and it is used somewhere ingame, then yes it will be changed to Avatar.

I'll address everything else soon - I had no idea there was this much to do :D:

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5 hours ago, joesteve1914 said:

Sorry, been a little busy this week. I'm not sure about the title, everyone has brought up valid points about it. I don't know why NoA did it considering shadow dragon has "new" in its Japanese title as well... but it's official I guess. 

As for the avatar name - afaik, the term 'Avatar' is the official localization of 'My Unit'. Is that even used in the game? I looked at the avatar creation part and it didn't appear there. If I'm wrong and it is used somewhere ingame, then yes it will be changed to Avatar.

I'll address everything else soon - I had no idea there was this much to do :D:

Take your time, everyone has a lot of valid points on various topics and every post should be read through in detail so don't rush it

FE13 pretty clearly distinguishes FE12 Marth as "King Marth" but I feel like characters like Lang and possessed Hardin would call him "Prince Marth" as a sign of disrespect, if you want my two cents on the issue. But having him be King Marth across the board might not be too bad. I wonder what people here think about this issue. Lorenz for example would probably call him "Your Majesty" or "King Marth" before he commits suicide as an example wheras Lang would dismissively call him "Prince" "Princeling" or "Boy" along those lines, same for Hardin in chapter 20. "Lord Marth" might also work depending on the person, if that hasn't been brought up yet.

Edited by Hero of the Fire Emblems

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I think that them using 'prince' or 'princeling' will just end up making them look dumb since that is factually incorrect. 'Boy king' and/or 'fledgling king' sound like way more fitting insults.

Edited by RedEyedDrake

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20 minutes ago, RedEyedDrake said:

I think that them using 'prince' or 'princeling' will just end up making them look dumb since that is factually incorrect. 'Boy/fledgling king' sounds way more fitting of an insult.

Point taken. I don't think Lang would use something like "Your Majesty" or "King Marth" unless he was doing it condescendingly, but maybe that's just me.

What do you think about Aimee Larabel/Larabel Aimee being her first and last name since she's just Larabel in all Japanese games and FE11, but Aimee in FE9/10?

 

EDIT: Wait hold the phone here a second. Marth's ending in FE12 indicates he's crowned King after FE12 is done. Is this the case in the Japanese version? Do they specifically use "Prince" Marth in the game?

"Possible Endings: Shadow Dragon: Altean Prince- Marth returned to war-torn Altea and devoted all his energy to restoring the kingdom to its former glory. He was later crowned king.

New Mystery of the Emblem: Altean Prince- Marth was crowned the fifth king of Altea. As the leader of the United Kingdom of Archanea, He worked tirelessly to help rebuild the ruined kingdom.

Edited by Hero of the Fire Emblems

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The "Aimee Larabel" idea is neat in theory, but makes me cringe hard.

I'm not gonna lie; I really dislike how NOA retconned Naga to be male and female in Awakening to fix their mistake in Shadow Dragon. But it was unavoidable in their situation. Still, I really don't want us to be following in their footsteps by having Aimee AND Larabel be her name; just pick one or the other.

As for the Naga gender issue, if there isn't already a topic about it in the Readme file, there really needs to be one. I would prefer Naga to be female/gender-neutral, but if you want to be consistent with NOA's lore, you should at least mention what it was like in the original. Or I can write up a note if necessary.

BTW, if you can do me a huge favour, I'd love it if you could rewrite Tiki and Avatar's support conversations. Maybe make them somewhat similar to the one in Awakening. Where Tiki ends up mistaking the Avatar for Marth or something.

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@Hero:

Oh snap, you're right. Someone better check that out in the Japanese script. If this is true then we might as well drop the whole 'King Marth' angle as well.

Edited by RedEyedDrake

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28 minutes ago, VincentASM said:

The "Aimee Larabel" idea is neat in theory, but makes me cringe hard.

I'm not gonna lie; I really dislike how NOA retconned Naga to be male and female in Awakening to fix their mistake in Shadow Dragon. But it was unavoidable in their situation. Still, I really don't want us to be following in their footsteps by having Aimee AND Larabel be her name; just pick one or the other.

As for the Naga gender issue, if there isn't already a topic about it in the Readme file, there really needs to be one. I would prefer Naga to be female/gender-neutral, but if you want to be consistent with NOA's lore, you should at least mention what it was like in the original. Or I can write up a note if necessary.

BTW, if you can do me a huge favour, I'd love it if you could rewrite Tiki and Avatar's support conversations. Maybe make them somewhat similar to the one in Awakening. Where Tiki ends up mistaking the Avatar for Marth or something.

Divine Dragon King as a title is non negotiatable because it's used in both FE11 as well as FE13, I can't recall specifically what instance in FE13 though. It's at the bare minimum the title the Archaneans used at the time, and due to using official english names we're instantly gridlocked into Divine Dragon King as the title, as regrettable as that might be to some people. Not using the localized title would compromise the integrity and purpose of the patch, so there is that. Gender neutrality outside of the title is the only plausible compromise.

As for Larabel, it's the same character from FE11, as with Jake and Anna. Her changing her name to Aimee would be largely unfounded. But then the issue comes up of severing the Tellius connection and due to the mild to moderate design differences between Tellius and FE11/12 in her design, people playing casually might not pick up on the connection without doing background research on a wiki. Aimee Larabel somewhat fixes the issue (one name, probably Larabel, will of course be used as her default name and the dual name thing would be specific to the support conversation where she writes that letter to Samson for the most part.

Speaking of support conversations, I always scratched my head about Marth X Avatar's 3rd support. I get Marth is forshadowing Chrom, but at the same time Fates, Heroes, and every bit of media since FE13 released alludes that all 3 of the avatars are Zelda style reincarnations.

I might suggest looking over it to see if the whole descendants thing is a bit too literal, or if there's no other way to interpret what is said to be consistent.

 

@RedEyedDrake I wonder if Awakening is referring to King Marth as in Marth AFTER FE12, like right after his ending. I've heard that in FE13 Sileph is considered King Sileph as well in reference to post FE4 and that's why they square off in the DLC; according to the wiki it's United Kingdom of Archanea vs King Sileph's Jugdral. We should investigate that about Awakening's DLC too.

Edited by Hero of the Fire Emblems

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@Matthew:

For which game? She wasn't listed under FE11 nor under FE12.

Edited by RedEyedDrake

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6 minutes ago, RedEyedDrake said:

@Matthew:

For which game? She wasn't listed under FE11 nor under FE12.

She was under FE9 and 10. And if she'd had 11 and 12 options, I'd imagine they'd have used Aimee, since they kept Dheginsea's name consistent for both his FE9 and FE10 options.

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12 minutes ago, Matthewtheman said:

She was under FE9 and 10. And if she'd had 11 and 12 options, I'd imagine they'd have used Aimee, since they kept Dheginsea's name consistent for both his FE9 and FE10 options.

Consistency with related games > consistency with other sub-series. Especially since it's the same character as in Shadow Dragon. (I'm in a PAL region, where she was translated as Aimee in Shadow Dragon anyway. Sadly, this is a US-English fan translation.)

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46 minutes ago, Seafarer said:

Consistency with related games > consistency with other sub-series. Especially since it's the same character as in Shadow Dragon. (I'm in a PAL region, where she was translated as Aimee in Shadow Dragon anyway. Sadly, this is a US-English fan translation.)

And what about Caeda and Navarre along with the others in the PAL version of Shadow Dragon, did they kept their PAL-only names in the PAL version of Awakening, Heroes, and Tokyo Mirage Sessions #FE, I did heard some from the PAL players from the Awakening kept the original NOA names from the Elibe games such as Bern and Ostia and I did seen Aveyn Knight (VincentASM) marked in the name chart for Caeda and Navarre was just listed in Shadow Dragon only, but I am not sure if they have kept the PAL names in the  PAL version of the other FE games? Besides that, I did seen Casual Mode got an alternate PAL version name that is called Newcomer Mode in Awakening.

Edited by King Marth 64

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On 2/25/2017 at 4:53 PM, RedEyedDrake said:

@Topaz:

How is it dubious? It is wielded by a member of the Macedonian royal family in battle. And Iote's Shield wasn't paraded around much either. But that is simply because Macedon is neither Altea nor Archanea and thus doesn't get much, if any, fanfare. And I mean really, what other sort of condition do you need fulfilled to consider something as regalia of a kingdom that is not an Altea, Archanea and/or Dolhr equivalent in a Fire Emblem game?

In Archanea, the Regalia only refers to the 3 weapons of Archanea: Gradivus, Mercurius and Parthia. No other weapon can be given that title in Archanea.

Hauteclere has no association with Macedon in particular. It has no connection to Macedon beyond that, unlike the Regalia, which were weapons stolen by Adrah and used in his battles to form Archanea thus giving them historical significance to the kingdom of Archanea or the Iote's Shield which is named after Macedon's founder, also giving it historical significance to Macedon. Hauteclere is simply a powerful axe that Minerva uses, nothing more. No historical significance, no legendary status.

Definitely not a Regalia because that is a specific title given only to the 3 weapons of Archanea, not a general term for great weapons.

Edited by Ranger Jack Walker

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53 minutes ago, King Marth 64 said:

And what about Caeda and Navarre along with the others in the PAL version of Shadow Dragon, did they kept their PAL-only names in the PAL version of Awakening, Heroes, and Tokyo Mirage Sessions #FE, I did heard some from the PAL players from the Awakening kept the original NOA names from the Elibe games such as Bern and Ostia and I did seen Aveyn Knight (VincentASM) marked in the name chart for Caeda and Navarre was just listed in Shadow Dragon only, but I am not sure if they have kept the PAL names in the  PAL version of the other FE games? Besides that, I did seen Casual Mode got an alternate PAL version name that is called Newcomer Mode in Awakening.

Okay...

1) I realise you aren't a native English speaker, but things like this that contain large amounts of grammar and syntax errors are difficult to read.

2) Awakening kept the PAL names of characters. Heroes did not, but Heroes (and Fates, for that matter) didn't get localised into British-English anyway; the PAL-region versions are just the US-NTSC versions with different region coding (if that). I don't know about TMS#FE, because I haven't played it.

3) If I recall correctly, the PAL localisation of FE8 uses the US names of countries on the world map, despite the terrible romaji names used in the actual script. I'm assuming NoE decided that the world-map names were the better choice when it came time to localise Awakening (praise Naga).

<opinion>

4) "Navarre" is just ugly (even if it is a region of Spain). "Nabarl" fits better with the other weird biblical names in Akaneia, like Ogma. (Seriously, I'm so pissed off that Heroes didn't get a proper PAL-region localisation, because I hate "Navarre" so much. :-/ )

</opinion>

5) I'm defending using the NTSC-U names for this patch anyway, so I have no idea why you decided to rant at me about it.

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