Who deserved more plot focus?

[NekoKnight]

Fates had a large cast of characters and unfortunately that left a lot of characters (even 'main' characters) with little plot involvement. What characters do you wish had a greater plot focus? There are certainly several characters who deserve more love, the Kamui-sexuals, the royal sisters, etc but who to choose? Personally, I'd like to see Scarlet's faction focused on more. Scarlet is killed early on in Conquest, which I feel is an appropriate "Bad End" for her character, a good person who died because of Kamui's choice of allegiance. Revelation uses her as a token sacrifice which was bad, but Revelation's cast is way to big too big to really focus on side characters. Birthright is where Scarlet's character was criminally underused. Cheve is a once visited set-piece and distraction for Ryoma to disappear off to. For her character and faction I wish it was used to highlight internal conflict within Nohr and Ryoma's mission to disrupt Nohr from within because Hoshido was fighting a losing battle on their front. There was a lot to talk about in Cheve, considering Sumeragi was assassinated there and it would a good place to start bridging the gap between Hoshidans and Nohrians. Scarlet not being able to S-rank Ryoma is bullshit.

What character would you choose to develop more and what would you have them do in the story?

[Azure Sen]

Just one? Oh boy, this is going to be hard...

Agreed on Scarlet, but I think someone who deserved far more focus than they got, perhaps even more than Scarlet, was Shura. Shura is a wealth of potential untapped; he has direct connections to the backstories of Kamui and Azura, an interesting backstory of his own, a likable personality that would work well off of Kamui's, a possible cause for camaraderie with Saizo and Kaze, and a really interesting ending. And yet he just shows up in every route with zero connection to or impact on the plot, especially in Conquest, where he is so misused that you can kill him for a pair of Boots. He and Kotaro could have been played as serious rivals, forced to cooperate on either Birthright or Conquest before Kotaro inevitably pulls a Kotaro and tries to stab whatever side he's supposed to be on in the back. Plus, Shura could have given more world-building to Kouga and Mokushu, which would have been appreciated.

Edited February 14, 2017 by AzureSen

[Oricorio]

Agreed with Scarlet and Shura. Another is Kaze, at least in Conquest. You'd think he'd have more to say when he's invading his country and fighting his friends and family, but he really just disappears. There could've been some interesting dialogue where he could question the Avatar's behavior. Plus, you'd think that more people than just his brother would call him out for defecting.

[Nanima]

Scarlet and Shura are both good options, but you know who has an even more glaring lack of plot focus? The royal sisters! (outside of BR!Elise I guess) Isn't it ridiculous how the game introduces a large amount of female main characters, and then has them stand on the sidelines, only really appearing for like one or two chapters each? Was it really so hard to think of ways to give them major traction inside the plot. I don't even think they need holy weapons themselves. Just their own focuses and arcs. 

[Sunwoo]

In addition to Scarlet, Flora would've been a good option. Felicia barely says anything about the Ice Tribe, and we barely know anything about the Ice Tribe as a result. Flora is more loyal to her tribe than Felicia is. The contrast in the relationships between the Ice Tribe and Nohr with that of the Fire and Wind Tribes and Hoshido are also interesting, as Rinka and Tsukuyomi treat the royals like equals while the Ice Tribe is oppressed by Nohr.

Actually, I would have liked to see more about the three tribes in general. We don't even know where the Fire Tribe lives, sheesh.

[joshcja]

Elise. The lord fates CQ deserved, but was not ready for. Also the victim of Garons greatest atrocity in fates BR...

Leveling

In

Troubador

Edited February 14, 2017 by joshcja

[ruruo]

Garon, and possibly by extension Anankos (though there's a bit of his background in Hidden Truths which I really felt should have at least been mentioned in the games). He's such a under developed, and throw-away villain. Xander keeps insisting he was a good King in the past, and does nothing. I've just wanted to know more about how his decent into evil, and how he started to worship Anankos. It might have given some more emotion and background into why the war in Fates is there. 

[Synjid]

8 hours ago, komasa said:

Garon, and possibly by extension Anankos (though there's a bit of his background in Hidden Truths which I really felt should have at least been mentioned in the games). He's such a under developed, and throw-away villain. Xander keeps insisting he was a good King in the past, and does nothing. I've just wanted to know more about how his decent into evil, and how he started to worship Anankos. It might have given some more emotion and background into why the war in Fates is there. 

Agreed. Through conquest in particular, the game builds some sort of tragic tension around the story of Garon, and its a shame the game doesnt ultimately uses that to make him a less monolithic, one-sided antagonist. Garon actually made me miss Lyon...

Edited February 15, 2017 by Synjid

[Slyfox]

Like others, I want to choose many characters, but here is my top choice.

Mikoto.

For someone who's death is responsible for the much hyped decision, she gets almost no development. People complained that they didn't know Emmeryn well enough to be sad when she dies, and here Intelligent Systems gives us Emmeryn 0.5 . If you are going to make a character responsible for three separate, paid, games, you had better get us emotionally attached.

[Luna of Dragonblood]

Agreed with all said!

Another one who I think desperately needs some development is Yukimura. Being a Corrin-sexual means basically no development in terms of supports, and the three games doesn't help out much either. While I find his father-daughter type relationship with Sakura, in-particular, to be sweet, he's never really...around, otherwise, aside from a few select chapters. It's especially glaring in Birthright. Why isn't he more proactive in the plot? Wasn't he Mikoto's tactician? You'd think he'd be really helping out in the war effort, or at least be there back at "home base" to give everyone updates for how things are going...more than a measly line or so that just drops his name.

[Shadowess]

Well. Hinoka.
where was she for like almost all the birthright cutscenes?? and the revelations? ???

Other than her, maybe Shura or Silas, since his appearance in birthright 22 felt a little random imo - it does make sense in the conversation context, but his appearance felt sorta weird.

[Erureido]

Hinoka for sure. She's the royal that had the least story focus, even in her home route, and I've thought of a few ways to give her some more plot focus in Birthright:

1. Give Hinoka some battle dialogue with Camilla in Birthright Chapter 13 - It's odd how Camilla has dialogue with Hinoka in the first battle against her in Conquest Chapter 11 but not the other way around in Birthright Chapter 13. My idea on how the dialogue could play out is Camilla expressing her jealousy that Corrin has joined Hoshido, going as far as saying Hinoka "stole" Corrin from her. Hinoka counters Camilla's claim and states Corrin is her own brother/sister and that it was Camilla and her family who did the stealing. Camilla then comments Hinoka's angry expression looks similar to Corrin's, a parallel to a similar comment Camilla says to her in Conquest Chapter 24. Camilla's yandere attitude then overwhelms as she then states she will disfigure Hinoka's face after she's through her so that Hinoka would not resemble Corrin. Hinoka comments her disgust with Camilla's attitude and then states she will do all she can to make sure Corrin doesn't end up in Camilla's hands again, and the two proceed to battle.
2. Give Hinoka some dialogue with Saizo following Kaze's death in Birthright Chapter 15 - In one of the few moments Hinoka appears in Birthright's story, she tries to save Corrin and Kaze in the scenario where the player doesn't achieve the A-support by Birthright Chapter 15, and while she has one line expressing her sorrow that she failed to save Kaze, I definitely think they could've better expanded on that. Before the moment when Ryoma and Corrin look out at the horizon, I would add a scene where we see how Kaze's death has affected Hinoka. Being the emotional person she can be, Hinoka would probably be awake the whole night, feeling guilty over the fact she couldn't save Kaze. Saizo sees Hinoka grieving, and asks her what's going on. Hinoka explains to Saizo what happened last night, and we see Saizo's reaction. I can also imagine Corrin chiming in on their discussion, and he too might become emotional in the process as he tries to apologize to Saizo. This entire scene would also give Saizo some more story presence (seriously, why didn't he have any lines following Kaze's death in that scene).
3. Create a "royal-retainer" relationship between Elise and Hinoka following Birthright Chapter 23 - Considering that Arthur and Effie do not have any dialogue following Chapter 23 even if they survive the battle, I'm pretty sure they were meant to be killed off at this point in the story. One idea I had in giving Hinoka some more story presence is a new scene following the Birthright Chapter 23 battle where Elise laments that her retainers died during the battle. Hinoka notices Elise's sorrow and begins to warm up to her. She reaches out to Elise and states she will be her new retainer and will protect her at all costs. I can see this as character development on Hinoka's part as a way of indicating how she warms up to Nohr, and I can imagine it would add-on quite well to a new scene idea I had for Birthright Chapter 22 where we see Hinoka warming up to Nohr culture (I wish the other siblings outside had dialogue expressing their reactions to the Nohrian underground in that Chapter; only Ryoma had that). It would also highlight her headstrong and caring nature in a new way. In the next two chapters, we see how Hinoka and Elise develop a bong between each other.
   1. My only problem with this idea is how this could relationship could culminate in Chapter 26. The best idea I can think of is that Elise tells Hinoka to wait outside the arena when Corrin and Xander fight. Hinoka objects because she cares about Elise's safety. Elise then insists that she no longer feels the need to have protection and knows what she needs to do; she thanks Hinoka and tells her to stay out of what happens next. Hinoka hesitantly accepts Elise's words. When she learns about what happened to Elise and sees Corrin grieving over Xander, I can imagine this could lead to some sweet dialogue between her and Corrin as they try to console each other over the events that just happened.

I haven't thought about any ideas to make Hinoka more plot relevant in Conquest and Revelation, but I'm sure there are good ways to give her more plot presence in those routes as well.

[NekoKnight]

8 hours ago, Erureido said:

Create a "royal-retainer" relationship between Elise and Hinoka following Birthright Chapter 23 - Considering that Arthur and Effie do not have any dialogue following Chapter 23 even if they survive the battle, I'm pretty sure they were meant to be killed off at this point in the story. One idea I had in giving Hinoka some more story presence is a new scene following the Birthright Chapter 23 battle where Elise laments that her retainers died during the battle. Hinoka notices Elise's sorrow and begins to warm up to her. She reaches out to Elise and states she will be her new retainer and will protect her at all costs. I can see this as character development on Hinoka's part as a way of indicating how she warms up to Nohr, and I can imagine it would add-on quite well to a new scene idea I had for Birthright Chapter 22 where we see Hinoka warming up to Nohr culture (I wish the other siblings outside had dialogue expressing their reactions to the Nohrian underground in that Chapter; only Ryoma had that). It would also highlight her headstrong and caring nature in a new way. In the next two chapters, we see how Hinoka and Elise develop a bong between each other.

1. My only problem with this idea is how this could relationship could culminate in Chapter 26. The best idea I can think of is that Elise tells Hinoka to wait outside the arena when Corrin and Xander fight. Hinoka objects because she cares about Elise's safety. Elise then insists that she no longer feels the need to have protection and knows what she needs to do; she thanks Hinoka and tells her to stay out of what happens next. Hinoka hesitantly accepts Elise's words. When she learns about what happened to Elise and sees Corrin grieving over Xander, I can imagine this could lead to some sweet dialogue between her and Corrin as they try to console each other over the events that just happened.

I like most of your ideas but this one is more dubious, in my opinion. I don't think Elise would be able to go on if her retainers died in the last battle and if they did, it would at least be mentioned. As far as Hinoka comforting her, it's a kind gesture and character development for Hinoka but I don't think Elise would be very receptive to it. She's a young girl who just saw two of her friends die. I don't think she's in the market for new retainers.

[SpearOfLies]

Too many characters, too much wasted.

[Extrasolar]

Old Garon needed more focus, full stop, agreeing with a few other people in this thread. Or at least, give us some hints of old Garon in new slime-monster Garon's disguise. Because it would alleviate so many of the issues with Conquest's story (the royals bending over backwards and spitting in the face of their own morals do go along with Garon's monstrous deeds because 'daddy might turn nice again,' which sucks as a justification when the audience literally never sees any of this nice Garon), and comes off as stupidly flimsy in the first place.

Of course, I'd do away with the slime monster bit in the first place and have Garon have been a once decent or even good guy who slowly become disillusioned and violent with the world, but I digress. If he absolutely must be slime monster, give us some hints of the previois guy so that the Nohrian royals don't come off as so stupid and morally bankrupt when running his errands.

Shura is a good one...he's set up with this tragic backstory and then just shoved into the background for the rest of the game, with only his support with Corrin providing any more background. Not to mention, he can't support with Azura, despite having been the one who kidnapped her? What's that all about??

On 2/14/2017 at 6:34 PM, Slyfox said:

Like others, I want to choose many characters, but here is my top choice.

Mikoto.

For someone who's death is responsible for the much hyped decision, she gets almost no development. People complained that they didn't know Emmeryn well enough to be sad when she dies, and here Intelligent Systems gives us Emmeryn 0.5 . If you are going to make a character responsible for three separate, paid, games, you had better get us emotionally attached.

This so much. Also Sumeragi. More about him, please. All we get is Fuga's comments about him in his and Corrin's support conversations. Build these monarchs up as people instead of plot devices.

 

[BANRYU]

Agree with all those mentioned... 'course the one I wanted to see more out of was Camilla, lol. Maybe she's not quite a fitting answer for this topic since, well... she DID get a lot of attention, haha... just not the right kind. Definitely agree with the likes of Hinoka, Conquest!Kaze, and most of the corrinsexuals in general honestly. Having Garon be more than just a cardboard cutout of a villain would have been nice too.

[Ertrick36]

I'm sorry, I can't just pick one character, the stories are an absolute mess.  We need more focus on everyone besides Corrin (the focus on Corrin is probably the biggest reason I don't like him/her).  Previous FE's show that they can focus at least a little on this many characters and more without the story getting bogged down too much.  Yet character focus and world building are Fates' greatest weak points relative to the rest of the series.

[Altrosa]

Since Hinoka's been covered quite nicely, I'd have to give it to Yugiri.

She shares many traits with Camilla of all people, her violence, her broken family situation, and team mom habits, yet has a completely different kind of poise to her. She's been around the block. She's perfectly comfortable in her skin. And that's just from her single support with Corrin! There is a ton of missing potential there as she's got such a fleshed out personality, plus, she's the only main Kinshin Knight in the game (a job I love but doubt we'll ever see again q.q)

I feel like she's missing her co-retainer support with Orochi, especially, perhaps with Orochi leaning on Yugiri for support after Mikoto passed.

Actually, I feel like the fact Orochi and Yugiri were to Mikoto what Iago and Hans were to Garon is a fact that flies right by most people, but I digress. 

 

Also, if we're talking about Scarlet and Ryoma's missing S-rank support, why couldn't Flora and Jacob have one when Flora basically tells him in a battle scene she stuck around more for him than she ever did Corrin.

[Thane]

Felicia, without a doubt.

She and Flora have this really interesting backstory that's for some reason only relevant to Flora. Felicia doesn't actually get to develop in the main story or even in her supports by talking about it, it's just brushed aside so that she can be a moe blob maid.

[SpearOfLies]

5 hours ago, Extrasolar said:

Shura is a good one...he's set up with this tragic backstory and then just shoved into the background for the rest of the game, with only his support with Corrin providing any more background. Not to mention, he can't support with Azura, despite having been the one who kidnapped her? What's that all about??

On 15/2/2017 at 3:34 AM, Slyfox said:

That why I dislike the marriage system. Try to create a large poll of choices but mis such many opportunities for a good support between marriage character and not marriage character with fates making awful jobs between marriage characters. Awakening at least have many good support, but Fates I feel only few and that why I feel more than half cast wasted. I don't feel need point one in particular.

[Erureido]

16 hours ago, NekoKnight said:

I like most of your ideas but this one is more dubious, in my opinion. I don't think Elise would be able to go on if her retainers died in the last battle and if they did, it would at least be mentioned. As far as Hinoka comforting her, it's a kind gesture and character development for Hinoka but I don't think Elise would be very receptive to it. She's a young girl who just saw two of her friends die. I don't think she's in the market for new retainers.

Yeah, you do raise a good point. Elise would be devastated by her retainers deaths that she probably wouldn't want to get a new one right away. That would be like if a boy/girlfriend of someone else died, and then another man/woman goes up to that someone else and asks to be the new boy/girlfriend instead. It wouldn't sit too well for that grieving person.

That's about the best I can think of for the Hinoka and Elise interactions though. I still think Birthright's plot could've been improved by showing Elise interact with the Hoshido siblings; we only see her interact, Chapter 22 onward, with Casita, Corrin, Azura, Xander, Camilla, Leo, Lilith, and Iago (only one line of that) and that's it; for someone tagging along with the Hoshidan army, I think it would make sense to show some interactions between her and the Hoshido family. Ah well, that's a discussion for another thread though.

[joshcja]

While Elise may be a childish, kindhearted, and overall good person she was literally raised on pain, trauma, abuse, and the sudden death of loved ones. Emotionally speaking she's a tonka tough tank, capable of cold pragmatism as well as killing or dieing for what she believes in with no hesitation whatsoever. This is one of the few points in fates that remains constant in plot and supports over all three games.

Arthur or Effie dieing would hurt but it's logically consistent that Elise is perfectly capable of putting that on one side until it's time to grieve.

Edited February 28, 2017 by joshcja

[NekoKnight]

3 hours ago, Erureido said:

Yeah, you do raise a good point. Elise would be devastated by her retainers deaths that she probably wouldn't want to get a new one right away. That would be like if a boy/girlfriend of someone else died, and then another man/woman goes up to that someone else and asks to be the new boy/girlfriend instead. It wouldn't sit too well for that grieving person.

That's about the best I can think of for the Hinoka and Elise interactions though. I still think Birthright's plot could've been improved by showing Elise interact with the Hoshido siblings; we only see her interact, Chapter 22 onward, with Casita, Corrin, Azura, Xander, Camilla, Leo, Lilith, and Iago (only one line of that) and that's it; for someone tagging along with the Hoshidan army, I think it would make sense to show some interactions between her and the Hoshido family. Ah well, that's a discussion for another thread though.

Maybe instead of her old retainers dying, they would be sent off for some reason, like she orders them to guard the path behind while the Hoshidan army pushes forward. Effie and Arthur protest of course but Hinoka promises to be her temporary retainer until Elise finishes her business with Xander.

[DragonFlames]

Easy: Anyone not named Azura, Xander, Ryoma, Leo or Takumi.

In all seriousness though, I agree on most of the points you guys made and I'd like to throw in my own suggestion: The Awakening trio. Yes, that's three characters, but honestly, outside of the DLC, what the heck were they there for? And even with the DLC, why the heck did they not speak up at least in Revelation? I mean, come on IntSys, I know you had a hard-on for a certain blue haired dancer and the (male) Royals but this is ridiculous.

Oh yeah, I know what they were there for: to kiss three certain Royals' a$$es and - in wrestling terms - put them over with the crowd, that's what.

@joshcja Agree with your point about Elise being the best Royal in Fates.

Edited March 1, 2017 by DragonFlames

[Erureido]

19 hours ago, NekoKnight said:

Maybe instead of her old retainers dying, they would be sent off for some reason, like she orders them to guard the path behind while the Hoshidan army pushes forward. Effie and Arthur protest of course but Hinoka promises to be her temporary retainer until Elise finishes her business with Xander.

That's a neat idea. This option could even give Arthur and Effie some more story presence, and if they survive the next 3 chapters, we could even see their reactions to Elise's fate in Chapter 26.