Rank the evil team leaders

[Dragoncat]

You can go by who's the most badass, who has the best story, or just who's your favorite. And do some discussions too. Here's mine.

7: Maxie
He's just the most boring imo, he really doesn't have anything that stands out about him.

6: Lysandre
Also a bit boring like Maxie, but his fabulous hair bumped him up a rank.

5: Ghetsis
AKA Gay Cheese lol...other than that he's meh.

4: Archie
The fandom gives him a lot of love and I can see why. Much cooler than Maxie.

3: Giovanni
He has the benefit of being the original Pokemon villain and him being the Johto rival's dad is interesting.

2: Cyrus
He's an antisocial one, more so than any of the others, to the extreme. He would've been boring if he hadn't pissed off Giratina and gotten stuck in the Distortion World, which was fun with its almost 3d thing before the 3ds.

1: Guzma
Our boy Guzma is probably a stereotype of a dumb street thug, but he grew on me for some reason. It's interesting that he's the only one who specializes in a type (bug). Giovanni's a ground gym leader, but he has a kangaskhan that he uses outside of gym battles that isn't a ground type, so yeah. Team Skull is hilarious with their fourth wall breaking and just everything, so their boss is my favorite.

[Slumber]

7. Maxie: Can't remember the dude for anything besides looking like a huge nerd that I wanted to beat up and throw in a locker(And I'm a scientist). Also Team Magma might be the dumbest villain group in the franchise.

6. Lysandre: Can't remember the dude for anything besides the stupid hair.

5. Cyrus: He's another just kind of generic villain group for the franchise, and he's basically the hyperbolic extreme of the Team Magma/Team Aqua leaders, but at least his history and motives are explained.

4. Archie: Dude's basically a pirate. His goal is one of the dumber ones, but it's less stupid than the Team Magma goal. It still is basically the plot to "Waterworld", so it's not that much better. He's mostly at #4 for the pirate thing.

3. Giovanni: The last of the "generic" Pokemon villains, but he's the most realistic and understandable of them. He doesn't want to basically destroy the world with Pokemon and chase after legendaries single mindedly to do it. He's just the leader of Pokemon's equivalent to the mafia, stealing Pokemon and terrorizing people for power. It makes sense in a world full of animals who have ridiculous super powers.

2. Ghetsis: The dude is basically pure evil, and unlike most of the other villain leaders, he doesn't want to do something absolutely stupid like destroy the world with Pokemon or reshape it in his image, he just wants control over Unova. He gets a bit more character building than most of the leaders, his goals are fairly understandable, and that theme.

1. Guzma: It's ya boy. Memes aside, the dude is a manchild who was abused as a kid and lashed out by disobeying authority and becoming a criminal. He leads a bunch of other misfits who mostly come from broken homes and treats them like family. He has no grandiose plans(Until the Aether Foundation recruits him, and even then, he's quick to realize how wrong Lusamine's plans are once she starts accomplishing her goals), and really he just wants to be with the rest of Team Skull. He's a surprisingly rounded, relatable character. Even though he's not a massive threat and Team Skull are mostly just a joke group, being somewhat realistic and having an actual story that you could see happening in real life is something that puts him above the rest.

[Magical Glace]

1. N

2. Colress

3. Ghetsis

4. Cyrus

5. Lysandre

6. Maxie

7. Lusamine

8. Guzma

9. Giovanni

10. Archie

There's none I truly HATE as characters, hating Ghetsis is just showing how well he did his job as a character.  They're all okay enough and get the job done, some admittedly better than others.  

N and Colress will always be permanent fixtures at #1-2 if they count.

[Dragoncat]

Was our boiiiii really abused as a kid? You can find his parents and the house he grew up in and they don't strike me as abusive. Just gullable/naive/whatever. His mom completely denies that he did anything wrong. It's on Melemele, outside of Hau'oli City around the graveyard. Go there and he'll say to meet him at the beach, then after you whoop his butt again, Hala shows up. I'll let you see what happens next for yourself.

I guess Lusamine kinda counts, but N and Colress don't really, but hey, whatever. Speaking of Lusamine, anyone else ship her with Guzma? I'm serious, before I knew Mohn was her kids father I thought it was him! He's likely younger but the lady's crazy, I can see her being a cougar. Picture his reaction if he finds out that kid who tried to join Team Skull to get stronger (Gladion) was actually his son. Poor guy's head would explode lol. I actually wrote an AU fic about that if anyone cares to read it.

Edited February 15, 2017 by Dragoncat

[Emerson]

5 minutes ago, Dragoncat said:

Was our boiiiii really abused as a kid? You can find his parents and the house he grew up in and they don't strike me as abusive. Just gullable/naive/whatever.

I believe the Japanese version blatantly states it.

[Dragoncat]

13 minutes ago, Almerson said:

I believe the Japanese version blatantly states it.

Wow, another example of unnecessary censoring -_- But now I remember his dad saying something like "I tried to knock some sense into that boy" so maybe that's it. Maybe his dad was abusive and his mom was passive and no help. Or he was just really vulnerable to peer pressure or a bit of both...

[Emerson]

1 minute ago, Dragoncat said:

Wow, another example of unnecessary censoring -_-

Er, I don't see how that's unnecessary. They did what they could with it without crossing that line. Give 'em a break.

[Rex Glacies]

10. Archie
I've never played Sapphire nor Alpha Sapphire, so I don't really have an opinion on him.

9. Giovanni
The original villain. He never had much development (and I played Leafgreen a looong time ago), but the fact that he's Silver's father is quite interesting.

8. Lysandre
Cool concept, but his goal was basically Galactic on decaf, his team didn't fit his ideals ("Only good people like Team Flare will survive, and you can join for 5 million dollars!"), and his hair completely spoils his relation to Team Flare. Also, why is his main Pokemon Gyarados when his team is called Flare?

7. Maxie
In Ruby he was bland, but Omega Ruby made some improvements. His goal makes more sense ("For humanity!") and the cool, collected scientist vibe makes him quite threatening.

6. Colress
He's a really neat and interesting character. However, I never understood his relation to Plasma nor why he became its effective leader.

5. Lusamine
*Shivers.* Man, this lady is insane. The "preservation room," the Ultra Beasts, all the Nihilego, just, wow. It gets even worse when her kids come in. Like, prior to the game's release, everyone was thinking that Lillie was actually UB-01, but the games imply that Lusamine was dressing Lillie up because she wanted Lillie to be Nihilego. Truly, the most insane video game character I've ever seen.

4. Cyrus
Gamefreak's first attempt at a developed villain, and I think it worked. He has a cool backstory and motivation, though Team Galactic is quite boring. Admittedly, some Sinnoh bias is putting him up this high, but I still think he's a well rounded villain.

3. Guzma
"Wanna see what destruction looks like? Here it is in human form- it's your boy Guzma!" His entire team is comedy act, and Guzma takes the main stage. Hilarious, but the comedy is just a cover up, as evidenced by Po Town. He and his team are just flunkies, and they want to fit in. His relation with Lusamine shows this as well (she was the first person to treat him seriously/as an adult), which shows that all he really wants is to win and be accepted. I just wish his relation with Kukui was more understood. It's mentioned almost offhandedly once, and then forgotten about.

2. Ghetsis
Truly the most terrifying villain in Pokemon. He found a boy with the ability to talk with Pokemon, gave him abused Pokemon so the boy would have a distorted notion of reality, and sent the boy on a quest to become champion so Ghetsis could rule Unova as a puppet-master. He gets even worse in B2/W2, where he drops his facade and resorts to terrorism. And once he fails, he goes on a rampage and basically goes insane. Just look up the final scenes with him in B2/W2. Remember, this is a kid game. Only thing holding him back is a proper reason to be evil.

1. N
Cool character. Tragic backstory. Altogether, he represents a perfect antihero. He is a good person who thinks he is doing the right thing, but isn't. That's what made the story in Black and White so good- it wasn't a battle of good versus evil, it was a battle of hero against hero. A battle of truth and ideals.

[Dragoncat]

14 hours ago, Almerson said:

Er, I don't see how that's unnecessary. They did what they could with it without crossing that line. Give 'em a break.

I just don't see how "he was abused as a kid" breaks the E rating or crosses a line. If it was "his dad came home drunk all the time and beat the shit out of him and his mom" maybe it would be, but just saying someone had a hard/abusive childhood wouldn't. The english version doesn't even say that.

Lusamine is creepy, hands down...but at least she sees the light at the end...

[Erureido]

9. Archer

It might seem surprising to see him on this list, but I consider him to be the leader of Team Rocket in the generation 2 games because he was the one that led the Goldenrod Radio Tower takeover, not to mention he seemed like the leader out of the 4 Rocket executives. But yeah, he's pretty forgettable because he barely appears in the game, not to mention him and Ariana didn't have much of a personality compared to Proton and Petrel.

8. Giovanni

Eh, never really cared for him. I get it that he's supposed to be the mafia owner type of villain, but there was nothing that really made me stand out for him outside of being Silver's father.

7. Lysandre

Even though the games does explain his motivations for what he did, he felt like a less developed Cyrus, and his team as a whole was rather dumb. At least he was a good villain in the anime though (and the same can be said for Team Flare as a whole; the Team Flare arc was awesome).

6. Archie

Rather forgettable in the original games, but I like how they flesh out why he wants to expand the sea with justified reasons; he wants to restore the sea from all the pollution it experienced. Other than that, I never cared for Archie all that much.

5. Guzma

Now we reach the villains that I enjoy. Not only is this character brimming with personality, but he has a sympathetic backstory that involves abuse from his parents. His team consists of those who couldn't complete Island Trials just like him, and you can't help but feel for the guy when you that all he ever wanted was to be recognized for his potential as a trainer, hence why he tags along with Lusamine when she recognized his potential.

4. Maxie

Like Archie, he was forgettable in the original RSE games, but I really like how he was portrayed in the remakes. His goals made better sense there compared to the originals; he wants to expand the land for humanity's sake, more specifically for human innovation (it makes sense to me considering how it would combat the overpopulation problem, though he doesn't specifically address it). He's also a calculated strategist, something that I think makes him a threatening villain. I'll admit I'm a sucker for the nerdy and calculated villains, which is likely why I rank Maxie so high and why I prefer him to Archie. I'd also say Maxie and Guzma are interchangeable on this list. Sometimes I like Guzma more than Maxie, sometimes I like Maxie more than Guzma (like right now), or sometimes they are tied.

3. Ghetsis

I wish they gave him more of a backstory regarding why he wanted world domination, but other than that, I find him to be a very threatening: the way he raises and manipulates N to who he is now, the mental breakdowns he experiences, his rage, and most importantly, the fact he was the first villain that actually attempts to murder the player character. The games do a great job making you hate him, and he even had a very challenging battle, especially in Black/White. That Hydreigon is a monster to take down.

2. Lusamine

I'm sure it was pretty obvious that she would be the main villain of Sun and Moon even before the games were released (even I will admit that), but I never expected to be a truly insane woman. She freezes Pokemon against their will and keeps them in preservation because she finds them "beautiful" and doesn't want them to lose their beauty and summons Ultra Beasts into the Pokemon world because she wants them to "freely express themselves." There's even implications that she abused Lillie and Gladion for a period of time. Heck, she went as far as forcefully dressing up Lillie with that hat and hairstyle because she wanted her to resemble Nihilego. Her angry face and her creepy smile also show that she isn't someone to mess with. Unlike Ghetsis, Lusamine has a backstory that explains how she turned into the individual it is today, and it is pretty tragic: she wanted to find her husband again who vanished in an Ultra Wormhole experiment, but her quest to find him led her to infliction from Nihilego's poison. Also, her battle theme is awesome!

1. Cyrus

Admittedly, part of the reason why he's this high on this list is because of my generation 4 bias, but I think Cyrus was a great villain. They explain the reason he wanted to create a new world without emotion: a backstory that reveals he was a good student but never lived up to his parents' expectations and felt rejected because of it, and he eventually figures that emotions are the source of strife in the world. To me, it seems like this hit him in an epiphany when he thought about his upbringings. His calculated strategy and his sociopathic nature also made him a pretty intimidating villain IMO, and I like how he basically got what he wanted in Platinum once he realized the Distortion World was the kind of world he longed for. I'd also say his final battle was a solid challenge too.

I didn't count N or Colress in this list because I wanted to focus on the individuals who were really in charge of their organization in the games they appeared in. N and Colress were treated as leaders, but Ghetsis was the true leader of Team Plasma in both Black/White and Black2/White2. If I had to incorporate both on the list, I'd rank Colress between Archie and Guzma and N at number 1. Much like Maxie, I'm a sucker for the nerdy and calculated strategists, so you bet I'm a fan of Colress. He had some interesting motivations too, but he didn't stand out to me compared to Guzma, Maxie, Ghetsis, Lusamine, and Cyrus. N would be number 1 because I like the philosophy he has, and the character development he experiences throughout the generation 5 games was very memorable. I'd say N is my third favorite human character in the Pokemon series, only beaten by ORAS Wally and Lillie.

[Dragoncat]

@Erureido I never thought of Archer counting. For an RP on another site (that I'm still trying to bring to life), I made him a sly, cold, calculating type. Ariana became a femme fatale who's always trying to use charm to get her way/manipulate. It worked on Proton just once, Giovanni and Archer are immune to it, and Petrel's Ariana's lap dog lol. He doesn't seem like the brightest crayon in the box...

I thought Cyrus was an orphan?

 

Edited March 10, 2017 by Dragoncat

[Erureido]

23 hours ago, Dragoncat said:

I thought Cyrus was an orphan?

 

I remember one of the NPCs in Sunyshore City explaining Cyrus's backstory, and that character mentioned Cyrus was a good student who couldn't live up to his parents expectations. The character also explained that because Cyrus was very studious, he became so asocial that he preferred the company of machines over humans and Pokemon. Thus, he wasn't alone in the sense of of being orphan, but rather he ended up feeling withdrawn from others.

Edited March 11, 2017 by Erureido

[Dragoncat]

48 minutes ago, Erureido said:

I remember one of the NPCs in Sunyshore City explaining Cyrus's backstory, and that character mentioned Cyrus was a good student who couldn't live up to his parents expectations. The character also explained that because Cyrus was very studious, he became so asocial that he preferred the company of machines over humans and Pokemon. Thus, he wasn't alone in the sense of of being orphan, but rather he ended up feeling withdrawn from others.

I remembered the old couple in Sunyshore who said that but I must've forgotten the details...

Could you do me a favor? Check the writing board, I posted my lores/headcanons for all the teams. See if you think I should change what I have for him. I can, but I do think it would make more sense if he were an orphan, I mean what parents wouldn't want a kid who's smart and good with school stuff? What "expectations" would his parents have had? Post your comments in that thread, I love getting them.