How much strategy can I expect?

[MisterIceTeaPeach]

I'm unsure, if this game will really meet my expectations.

I watched like two episodes of Hyrule Warriors to get a certain impression of this genre, and I have to say it looks more or less like a pressing-button game. It's just a massmurdering for fun with some dialogues. I didn't see that much strategy.

Since I like games which require certain strategical elements in videogames, I'd like to know if FE Warriors will / could have them, and if so, what kinds of strategy?

Could it be similar to an action RPG that you can set your strategy or use items while your actions?

If it would be the case, then my interest could rise a little bit at least.

[FleetofFeet]

I would think that fire emblem warriors would just be a game that would be fun to play rather than relying on strategic elements, but who knows at this point in the process wait until more footage has been released before making a decision.

[Soledai]

Oh Jules. While I'm pleased you're taking an interest, I gotta say, two episodes of a Hyrule Warriors LP isn't gonna tell you anything about the genre, at all.

I can't say anything about FE Warriors, for obvious reasons, but I can tell you that Warriors games do have a strategic element. It's not a terribly deep thing, but it's not really superficial either. If you really wanted to know more about the genre, I recommend plopping down and watching a playthrough of Dynasty Warriors 7 or 8, and/or Samurai Warriors, preferably Samurai Warriors, it fits closer to what you're looking for.

Since you want to set strategies and whatnot, the Dynasty/Samurai Warriors Empires expansions may also seem up your alley too, now that I think about it.

Edited February 16, 2017 by Soledai

[SatsumaFSoysoy]

The Warriors series, from my experience, is less about strategy, and more about micromanaging the battlefield, and the speed at which you do so. You're your army's ace in the hole, and everyone else is basically too useless to change the situation. However, you can't be everywhere at once, so you have to pick the most important place to be in at any given time. Newer games/some Warriors series are generally easier, and honestly Hyrule Warriors was one of them, probably because of the target audience. But when a level is well-designed and sufficiently difficult (not the artificial kind from bullshit damage), it can actually be quite challenging.

Check out this level from Dynasty Warriors Gundam Reborn. This one is actually fairly hectic, and requires speed. Because it's DLC.

 

Edited February 16, 2017 by SatsumaFSoysoy

[Folt]

Also worth noting is that most of Hyrule Warriors's hard levels are found in Adventure Mode, though it's technically not as hard to complete the levels as it is to A rank them (which you need for rewards and achievements).

[MisterIceTeaPeach]

Thanks for sharing this video!

If the gameplay of FE Warriors will become as hectic as in the video, then no... JUST NO.

I can't play speedfocussed games since my reactiontime isn't the best anymore. Furthermore it's hard for me to visualize everything with all the crap of enemies.

I don't want to compare it with Touhou gameplaywise, but I guess FE Warriors will share the same fate that the chaotic and hectic gameplay will totally overwhelm me.

[Thany]

32 minutes ago, Magilou said:

Thanks for sharing this video!

If the gameplay of FE Warriors will become as hectic as in the video, then no... JUST NO.

I can't play speedfocussed games since my reactiontime isn't the best anymore. Furthermore it's hard for me to visualize everything with all the crap of enemies.

I don't want to compare it with Touhou gameplaywise, but I guess FE Warriors will share the same fate that the chaotic and hectic gameplay will totally overwhelm me.

Remember he said thats a dlc mission. and as far as i know. dlc missions are for those when you finish the actual main game. anyways at least you know now that the game isnt just simple buttom mashing. It only looks like that in the begining to give "some" new players comfortablility playing the game till they actually throw them in situations where they cant just stay in one place killing all enemies.

[MisterIceTeaPeach]

Yeah, I read that it's only a DLC.

But still I'm worried about the game's speed.

I hope this game will be made to introduce newcomers to this genre like the latest FE main parts did. However since other developers are making FE Warriors, I'm a bit sceptical.

Also in this case I'll watch a LP of this game before I'll buy this game not to regret anything possible.

 

 

[Soledai]

Uh, I think the trailer that showed the 10 seconds of Chrom fighting(remember that??) would be a nice place to get an idea of the speed, at the very least.

If you're expecting it to be hectic right from the get-go, you're setting your expectations way too high, Warriors games are not as fast as whatever you're probably imagining. And if anything, you should want a tutorial. Example; Most Warriors games literally teach you how to do stuff while you play the game and then you, the player, practice it. They're not gonna throw you in the middle of frenzied combat and say "figure it out".

Again I say, if you want to get a feel for it, literally watch a playthrough of Dynasty Warriors 7/8 or Samurai Warriors 4(barring the Godspeed attacks, that's obviously not gonna be in FE:W), or more than two EPs of Hyrule Warriors. :V

Edited February 16, 2017 by Soledai

[Koumal8]

  I'm watching the video and... could someone explain to me where the strategy is? I mean, to me it seems the player is just curbstomping every enemy in one area, then going to another random one and curbstomping the enemy again and so on. I never played a Warriors game but I did play a few fighting/action games and this video is just cementing my belief that the Warriors series is just a series of excellent fighting games that still do not require even 1/10 of the thinking needed in any decently hard FE game. Not like there's anything wrong with that, mind you.

[MisterIceTeaPeach]

I watched the trailer of FE Warriors and a video of Dynasty Warriors 4... and I still find the gameplay chaotic to me.

I speak for myself as someone who has no clue of this genre and hardy will learn to understand the gameplay: These games are basically a hit and hope for me. Hoping to press the right button combo to come through the game.

 

[Thany]

47 minutes ago, Koumal8 said:

  I'm watching the video and... could someone explain to me where the strategy is? I mean, to me it seems the player is just curbstomping every enemy in one area, then going to another random one and curbstomping the enemy again and so on. I never played a Warriors game but I did play a few fighting/action games and this video is just cementing my belief that the Warriors series is just a series of excellent fighting games that still do not require even 1/10 of the thinking needed in any decently hard FE game. Not like there's anything wrong with that, mind you.

If he lasted any longer on some of the enemies he was fighting and didnt get to the place he needed to on time, the mission would of been a failure and he would of had to start all over again. You will also have to consider the player is good at fighting the generals and captains in that You most likely fight many times throughout the game. you attack them carelessly they will block and most likely kill you in an instant depending on how far in the game they are.

[Koumal8]

1 minute ago, Thany said:

If he lasted any longer on some of the enemies he was fighting and didnt get to the place he needed to on time, the mission would of been a failure and he would of had to start all over again. You will also have to consider the player is good at fighting the generals and captains in that You most likely fight many times throughout the game. you attack them carelessly they will block and most likely kill you in an instant depending on how far in the game they are.

  Doesn't that mean that all you need is to be fast at beating all the enemies? It is certainly a skill, but it doesn't mean you need tactical thinking, just to be, you know... good at the game. Which, as far as I remember, means "only" pressing the right buttons when the enemy is at the right distance and memorizing combos etc... I'm not saying it's easy, but only that it requires no strictly tactical skill. Doesn't it test more other skills like reflexes and distance measuring and so on?

[Soledai]

1 hour ago, Koumal8 said:

  I'm watching the video and... could someone explain to me where the strategy is? I mean, to me it seems the player is just curbstomping every enemy in one area, then going to another random one and curbstomping the enemy again and so on. I never played a Warriors game but I did play a few fighting/action games and this video is just cementing my belief that the Warriors series is just a series of excellent fighting games that still do not require even 1/10 of the thinking needed in any decently hard FE game. Not like there's anything wrong with that, mind you.

I seem to recall the video being about, something along the lines of...

7 hours ago, SatsumaFSoysoy said:

micromanaging the battlefield, and the speed at which you do so.

Ah yes, there we go.

 

Anyway, are you seriously trying to base the entire series's supposed 'lack of strategic value' off one video and your own ignorance?
Looking for FE type of strategy(?) in a completely different genre?


And if you really wanna go there, you don't need tactical thinking to put a stronger unit next to a weaker enemy and beat them in FE, or a bunch of weak allies to take down a strong enemy. You just need to know basic fucking math lol.

1 hour ago, Magilou said:

I watched the trailer of FE Warriors and a video of Dynasty Warriors 4... and I still find the gameplay chaotic to me.

I speak for myself as someone who has no clue of this genre and hardy will learn to understand the gameplay: These games are basically a hit and hope for me. Hoping to press the right button combo to come through the game.

I'm impressed you went and watched DW4, I truly am, but I think DW8 would've been more relevant.

But, Jules, you're overselling the learning curve of a Warriors game, it's not hard to learn. You'll manage, it's not like there's a wrong button to press and you die, the series is forgiving enough to allow mistakes, relax.

Edited February 16, 2017 by Soledai

[SatsumaFSoysoy]

13 hours ago, Magilou said:

Thanks for sharing this video!

If the gameplay of FE Warriors will become as hectic as in the video, then no... JUST NO.

I can't play speedfocussed games since my reactiontime isn't the best anymore. Furthermore it's hard for me to visualize everything with all the crap of enemies.

I don't want to compare it with Touhou gameplaywise, but I guess FE Warriors will share the same fate that the chaotic and hectic gameplay will totally overwhelm me.

It is fairly ADHD, yeah, especially on higher difficulties. But it's also good for stress relief at lower difficulties lol.

9 hours ago, Koumal8 said:

  I'm watching the video and... could someone explain to me where the strategy is? I mean, to me it seems the player is just curbstomping every enemy in one area, then going to another random one and curbstomping the enemy again and so on. I never played a Warriors game but I did play a few fighting/action games and this video is just cementing my belief that the Warriors series is just a series of excellent fighting games that still do not require even 1/10 of the thinking needed in any decently hard FE game. Not like there's anything wrong with that, mind you.

Well I already said that it's not about strategy. And yes, you are supposed to curbstomp everyone; anyone the player controls is basically a god. The trouble in the video comes from two things: protecting allies, and beating time limits. The text tells you a lot.

On higher difficulties, pretty much none of your named allies can stand up to enemy aces, and sometimes even struggle against above-average cannon fodder squads. There are often penalties for letting them die, or it may even lose you the mission, so it's up to you to save them. Like in the video, the yellow enemies spawn and immediately swarm one of your important allies (the redhead). People who make these gameplay video are usually already familiar with the level, but if it's your first time seeing the level, it's very easy to be in the wrong position when they spawn, and thus make it hard for you to reach and eliminate the enemies before they kill your ally.

A long time ago, I played Samurai Warriors 2, and there was one mission that was pretty much an escort mission with Shima Sakon. Shima would constantly run into enemy fields, and constantly be in trouble, as he is very weak in that mission. You spawn quite far away from Shima, while Shima spawns very close to enemies, so you must breach enemy defenses quickly to save him from the first wave, then continue to escort him through his path. In the middle of the mission, however, there will be situations that call for you to separate from Shima or go ahead of him, so you can't baby him all the way. That was one of the tougher levels in my memory.

Time limits are also something that force you apart from your allies and such. In the video, there's one part that makes you kill three Mobile Armors (giant enemies with high health and power) within a time limit. Of course, if your unit is already fully upgraded and whatnot, it's a fairly simple task, but otherwise it requires knowledge of your combos and anti-MA techniques to do it as quickly as possible. Assuming your power level is appropriate, you only barely have enough time to destroy all three MAs within the time limit in the video. To be honest, time limits in Warriors games are generally more lenient than the one in this video, though.

Edited February 16, 2017 by SatsumaFSoysoy

[Thany]

10 hours ago, Koumal8 said:

  Doesn't that mean that all you need is to be fast at beating all the enemies? It is certainly a skill, but it doesn't mean you need tactical thinking, just to be, you know... good at the game. Which, as far as I remember, means "only" pressing the right buttons when the enemy is at the right distance and memorizing combos etc... I'm not saying it's easy, but only that it requires no strictly tactical skill. Doesn't it test more other skills like reflexes and distance measuring and so on?

There are some enemies that come with abilities that even remembering combos and "only" pressing the right buttons at a distance will even get you killed. Super armor prevents knockback. insane damage imput means 2 hits will kill you dead. heck, some enemy generals can gang you as well. if you go in without thinking of ANY stratagy of how you combat the enemy. then you probably wont get far in the game if you think its just button mashing.

Edited February 17, 2017 by Thany

[MisterIceTeaPeach]

Quote

I'm impressed you went and watched DW4, I truly am, but I think DW8 would've been more relevant.

But, Jules, you're overselling the learning curve of a Warriors game, it's not hard to learn. You'll manage, it's not like there's a wrong button to press and you die, the series is forgiving enough to allow mistakes, relax.

As I stated earlier I will watch a LP first to get a more precise impression.

Words can't convince me for now. Have to see the gameplay of a few missions with my own eyes.

[Thany]

39 minutes ago, Magilou said:

As I stated earlier I will watch a LP first to get a more precise impression.

Words can't convince me for now. Have to see the gameplay of a few missions with my own eyes.

well hopefully we get SOMETHING soon from nintendo interms of gameplay. i have been dying to see what characters they could add by the time E3 comes around.

[Deva Ashera]

Honestly, a Let's Play of a Warriors game won't show much of how the game is actually played, just how it looks. Hopefully Fire Emblem Warriors will have a demo for you to try to get a better grasp of how the game plays.

Note that the Story Mode of at least Hyrule Warriors isn't as chaotic nor difficult as the Adventure Mode maps were (essentially a 'Mission Mode'). The strategy of Warriors titles comes down to your decision making. For example, you may have a choice between attempting to take out the last big enemy you need in order to complete the mission but at the same time a Keep that you can't lose or you lose the Mission may be close to being taken from you..so the choice you have ends up being do you defeat the boss and clear the mission or take the time to save the Important Keep and risk taking too much time and getting a lower rank (and thus maybe not getting the A-Rank Weapon Unlock).

As for the game speed and reaction time needed to play it..I wouldn't be too worried about that unless you try to take on the hardest challenges the games have in store for you..and even then its not even that bad to be honest. The amount of enemies are also not too big a deal, the common 'mooks' won't really attack very often, just the bigger 'boss' type enemies and enemy 'player characters' or, if included, Huge Monster Bosses.

[Sasori]

The action in Warriors games are always fast pasted and simple, but there is still strategy to be found in the games. How much depends on the game, but there's almost always the morale mechanic and missions during stages. Morale zones makes enemies stronger and more agressive, while beating missions drains morale from the enemy. Failing missions on the other hand raises the morale.

The missions themselves are often very simple such as 'take out character X in 5 minutes' or 'stop guy from reaching your camp', but at least in the 3ds games they start combining them later on so you be asked to protect a guy, while also needing to defeat a certain amount of officers and preventing another officer from charging into your camp.

Hyrule Warriors also had the adventure mode mechanics where in each stage you would only get the reward after you got a certain amount of kills in a certain amount of time with extremely little damage taken to your character. The action itself doesn't change, but it does discourage the mindless part.

[Jedi]

A video I did might help with, what they could possibly do to add some strategy to this. 

 

[thecrimsonflash]

With my experience of hyrule warriors, these games need to be played and not watched to be best enjoyed, I don't think that even a let's play will give you any clear answers.

Edited March 17, 2017 by thecrimsonflash

[Anomalocaris]

Your mistake is watching LPs and expecting to assess the game that way. Most LPers suck hard at video games and make it look too hard, or just spam the same tactics and make it look boring.

I only have Hyrule Warriors to my name, but I found that most of the gameplay is about tactics rather than mindless mashing. The actual skill ceiling is pretty low, and it doesn't take very long at all to "master" a moveset and combat. The game eases you in with simple "kill everything" missions, but after combat becomes pretty ingrained and autonomous the gameplay then challenges you with tactics; making decisions about where your army currently needs you most, and which areas you can leave alone for now. As one person once described it, you're basically Superman; nobody can match you in combat but you can't be in more than one place at the same time, and that's where most of the game's challenge comes from.

Reaction times and button-pressing don't really factor in all that much except in some of the more challenging scenarios faced in Adventure Mode, which is totally optional to the story. I assume FE Warriors will have something similar. If all else fails, the game will most definitely have multiple difficulty settings, so you can adjust it to better suit your experience. Your best bet is to wait and see once they release more official trailers. Those offer a better sample of the gameplay than some LP. Even better if they release a downloadable demo.

[Nazarre]

As a long-time Warriors fan, I can tell you that you can expect a fair amount of strategy.

Generally speaking (as mentioned earlier in this thread), Warriors games are mostly about micro-managing the battlefield. You are your army's best warrior, and you usually need to decide where you are needed most... sometimes you need to make a plan to travel to multiple locations in advance, deciding which route would be the most beneficial.

In the various battles you will participate in, you also encounter various events that can change the flow of battle. As many of you came from Hyrule Warriors, you know about these from the story mode... I remember the first Samurai Warriors was great with incorporating this feature as well. For those who are unfamiliar with Warriors games... these include things like enemy (or ally) reinforcements, activating ambushes (often having to lead an enemy to a certain location), and capturing strategic locations. Omega Force does a surprisingly good job incorporating stuff from the source material into their Warriors games (particularly Franchise-Warriors), so these kinds of events will probably play a bigger part than in other games in the series.

To the untrained eye, the combat of Warriors games seems shallow... but the premise is essentially like that of Smash Bros.: the characters have similar controls so it's easy to transition from one to the other, but their properties and movesets differ enough. For example... it's like how for most characters in Smash, their Up+B move is a recovery / upward attack move... in Warriors games, C2 (Light Attack, then Heavy Attack) is generally a move that knocks enemies into the air. Characters in Warriors games these days are different enough where you won't get bored, even when their movesets seem like they would be similar... anyone whose played Hyrule Warriors knows about that with Sword!Link and Sword!Toon Link, and Darunia and Ravio, etc.  You can even see this a lot in other Warriors games... where, for instance, some spear users are more stabby and other ones are more swipey. And, of course, there are some characters that excel at things like juggling, others that have wide attack range, etc.

Warriors games aren't for everyone, but I'd recommend giving them a fair shot before judging. They get a lot of bad press for being repetitive, but really... it's not any more repetitive than any other hack n' slash or beat 'em up any game where you fight stuff, really. :P Unless, I guess, you try to take out EVERY SINGLE peon in EVERY SINGLE BATTLE... but then you're doing it wrong. :P