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Arena Discussion Thread (inc. Assault)


pianime94
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Still working toward a worthwhile finish. That weird "Azura will move first and not sing to push Julia up out of position" thing set me back a bit (it wouldn't have mattered if there wasn't a Tharja there humping Julia's butt, as Nino would've won the trade with ease). If the current streak was looking great, I'd have used a crest, but lost the deathless on that too (but it's 2 battles to conclusion, so I'll probably finish just to put something on the board and get a bit more practice with the team). I saw the Olwen. I knew what was coming, but I tried my luck anyway. I almost had it anyway, though, since Nino one-shot Olwen, Eldigan couldn't quite decide what to do, and they also had a random Hector that was lagging behind as usual. Where it didn't work for whatever reason is with their 4* +9 Cecilia. It was the broken wall map and I was trying to lure her off on her own by having a tasty Cherche with terrible Res, alongside a TA Cordelia, at the edge of her range. Instead of moving toward them, she went north toward Nino. I have no idea why. I guess she might have wanted Sharena, but Sharena was like the farthest person from her and had the second-best Res. Anyway, that weirdness eventually ended in Eldigan breaking a block so Cecilia could one-shot Cordelia from across the pillar. Nino murdered her nearly twice over next turn for her troubles, then proceeded to one-round Hector because Vantage-Bonfire ain't got shit on her.

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13 hours ago, Ice Dragon said:

Yep.

+1 Sophia [+Atk, -Spd] (Raudhrraven+, Dragon Fang, Triangle Adept 3, G Tomebreaker 3, Fortify Res 3)
+10 Ninian [+Spd, -Res] (Lightning Breath+, Dance, Triangle Adept 3, Escape Route 3, Fortify Dragons, S HP +3)
+4 Reinhardt [+Atk, -Spd] (Dire Thunder, Blazing Thunder, Death Blow 3, Vantage 3, Hone Cavalry)
+0 Cecilia [+Spd, -Def] (Gronnblade+, Life and Death 3, Hone Cavalry)

I merged my old neutral Sophia into a new [+Atk, -Spd] Sophia I pulled earlier this week.

Is Flier Emblem suddenly getting popular or something? I only ran 3 arena matches so far, but 2 of them were all fliers (and got absolutely demolished by my superior mobility).

Wow u run Sophiiiaaa?  She counts as a Dragon?  Must be a good Nino counter haha.  Dont know if i could bring myself to build her but looks like shes working out!  Could Leo work similarly with Cavalry?  Thanx for sharing :)

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25 minutes ago, Chromatone said:

Wow u run Sophiiiaaa?  She counts as a Dragon?  Must be a good Nino counter haha.  Dont know if i could bring myself to build her but looks like shes working out!  Could Leo work similarly with Cavalry?  Thanx for sharing :)

Sophia doesn't count as a dragon for game purposes.

The build is designed to completely shut down all green and colorless units. The only green units that can actually deal respectable damage to Sophia are Gronnblade+ buff stackers and those are shut down from double attacking by G Tomebreaker. She can also handle Kagero decently due to being able to one-hit kill her on the counterattack, preventing Kagero from landing her second hit.

Leo would probably work with a similar build. His Def is a bit lower, so you might want to use either +Def or Fortify/Ward Cavalry to boost it up to Sophia's level.

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Ohhhkaaay so why the fortify dragons on Ninian?  Does that Defence on Soph save her from some reds too or just to shut down colorless?  The Skills make sense for sure just Seems like there would be some one better.  I want to do the same thing on Cecilia, didnt seem like colorless did much to her with lower def.  I was thinking two triangle users on a team would be good as well.  Sorry to pick yer brain on it so much, always love hearing your reasoning!

Edited by Chromatone
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5 minutes ago, Chromatone said:

Ohhhkaaay so why the fortify dragons on Ninian?  Does that Defence on Soph save her from some reds too or just to shut down colorless?  The Skills make sense for sure just Seems like there would be better options.  I was thinking two triangle users on a team would be good as well.  Sorry to pick yer brain on it so much, always love hearing your reasoning!

Fortify Dragons is for my defense team. I'm too lazy to change it out while running offense because I haven't ever really thought "I would have killed that if I had Hone Atk" or "I would have survived that if I had Hone Def".

Ninian would serve her purpose on my team with just Lightning Breath+, Dance, and Triangle Adept 3, which is as a dancer and Tharja check. If I replace Escape Route 3 with Quick Riposte 3, she'll also just straight-up kill Tharja on the counterattack, but that's not a necessity.

Sophia's high Def is mostly for green and colorless. +Atk Hector, for example, deals only 5×2 damage to her. It takes only 49 Atk for a sword to kill Sophia (+1 merge gives her 41 HP) in one round, and that's easily achievable by most common sword users. I could make that threshold 53 with Hone Def 3 on Ninian, but that's never really been necessary.

I'm basically running the minimum necessary skills to make each build do what I need it to do because I don't do SP farming very often and therefore don't have much SP to work with. If the skill is something the character has as a default skill and it doesn't look like it's terribly useful, it's probably there as a filler.

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20 hours ago, Ice Dragon said:

+1 Sophia [+Atk, -Spd] (Raudhrraven+, Dragon Fang, Triangle Adept 3, G Tomebreaker 3, Fortify Res 3)
+10 Ninian [+Spd, -Res] (Lightning Breath+, Dance, Triangle Adept 3, Escape Route 3, Fortify Dragons, S HP +3)
+4 Reinhardt [+Atk, -Spd] (Dire Thunder, Blazing Thunder, Death Blow 3, Vantage 3, Hone Cavalry)
+0 Cecilia [+Spd, -Def] (Gronnblade+, Life and Death 3, Hone Cavalry)

I merged my old neutral Sophia into a new [+Atk, -Spd] Sophia I pulled earlier this week.

Is Flier Emblem suddenly getting popular or something? I only ran 3 arena matches so far, but 2 of them were all fliers (and got absolutely demolished by my superior mobility).

Impressive use of Sophia. This only proves that Sophia is a better Raven user than Henry could ever be. I use a similar strategy, but for Cecilia, who naturally has a Raven tome instead.

All in all, it's a solid team. The only weakness I can think of is the lack of physical units. But that's nothing to worry about due to the abundance of lower RES enemies, TA, and that your Reindhart and Cecilia can already obliterate enemies even with high RES. Facing against this team, they would have to bring balanced triangle. And they have to play smart. One who relies on enemy phase to win would lose horribly, unless you can counter with the right units (For example, Sanaki against Cecilia). (Yes, I speak of my own experience after facing that damned Reindhart Cecilia Leo blade combo a few seasons ago.)

One improvement I can give to Cecilia is a Repositioning skill, and a breaker skill to survive against certain enemies you find the most threatened with.

Edited by Lyrai
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4864 update:

9pm PDT 4/19: 341

7pm PDT 4/20: 462

I ended up deciding to just have some fun with team flier, at least for a streak's worth of matches. They also picked up another defensive win, which was nice.

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Currently ranked 1423 with a score of 4802. 

I don't think I'll be able to break top 1k anymore after the update without higher merges. All of my units are either +0 or +1, which is really dragging my score down :/

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14 minutes ago, MaskedAmpharos said:

Currently ranked 1423 with a score of 4802. 

I don't think I'll be able to break top 1k anymore after the update without higher merges. All of my units are either +0 or +1, which is really dragging my score down :/

It's only natural, as time goes, some people get luckier over others with each given orbs. Rank is pretty much relative to the gacha's unpredictable nature in the end. At least, that's the "lucky" or "P2W" part about this game.

It's not the end of the world for not breaking top 1000. You should be glad you're still coming on high amongst many.

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Just now, Lyrai said:

It's only natural, as time goes, some people get luckier over others with each given orbs. Rank is pretty much relative to the gacha's unpredictable nature in the end. At least, that's the "lucky" or "P2W" part about this game.

It's not the end of the world for not breaking top 1000. You should be glad you're still coming on high amongst many.

Oh I know, I'm not super disappointed or anything. 

I guess I just feel more disappointed than I normally would because I had a taste of what ranking high was like before the update changed how the system works haha. Well, that and also the fact that I still usually rank higher than top 2k, and it's so frustrating that 1k is sooooo close. Like honestly, if my rank were a solid 2-3k instead of 1.5k I'd probably be less annoyed lmao

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1 minute ago, MaskedAmpharos said:

Oh I know, I'm not super disappointed or anything. 

I guess I just feel more disappointed than I normally would because I had a taste of what ranking high was like before the update changed how the system works haha. Well, that and also the fact that I still usually rank higher than top 2k, and it's so frustrating that 1k is sooooo close. Like honestly, if my rank were a solid 2-3k instead of 1.5k I'd probably be less annoyed lmao

Mm... I actually wanted to comfort you... but I can't make up the right words for it. So... it's okay, @MaskedAmpharos. You did your best.

I would feel the same as you do if I were in your rank. Being close to the threshold is such a painful thing.

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22 hours ago, Ice Dragon said:

Yep.

+1 Sophia [+Atk, -Spd] (Raudhrraven+, Dragon Fang, Triangle Adept 3, G Tomebreaker 3, Fortify Res 3)
+10 Ninian [+Spd, -Res] (Lightning Breath+, Dance, Triangle Adept 3, Escape Route 3, Fortify Dragons, S HP +3)
+4 Reinhardt [+Atk, -Spd] (Dire Thunder, Blazing Thunder, Death Blow 3, Vantage 3, Hone Cavalry)
+0 Cecilia [+Spd, -Def] (Gronnblade+, Life and Death 3, Hone Cavalry)

I merged my old neutral Sophia into a new [+Atk, -Spd] Sophia I pulled earlier this week.

Is Flier Emblem suddenly getting popular or something? I only ran 3 arena matches so far, but 2 of them were all fliers (and got absolutely demolished by my superior mobility).

I really like the build that you have on Sophia there, how do you think she compares to other red tome users who run a similar kit, like Sanaki, Lilina, or Tharja? 

Sanaki already has inherent Triangle Adept, so she only needs Raudhrraven from Henry. She has enough firepower and resistance to blow green mages away so R Tomebreaker or Swordbreaker may be more optimal. Lilina is quite similar to Sanaki in terms of stat line, so something similar could be run on her as well, however these two have to watch out for strong physical green units as well such as Brave Axe Cherche, because of their paper thin defenses. 

Tharja has about the same attack as Sophia, higher speed, and overall less bulk. She can take a hit from some 1 ranged units due to her speed and acceptable bullk, unless the opponent is running R Tomebreaker or a brave weapon color that isn't nerfed by TA. Tharja's speed makes her a target for R Tomebreaker by slower mages, so she can run that so as to not be outdone, or run something like Desperation because her speed allows for it.

Is there a reason why you chose Sophia to fulfill this role? Is it because you like her as a character? Sorry for asking so many questions and stating my opinions all at once lol. I'm new to this thread, and I just wanted to get my thoughts out there.

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28 minutes ago, KinoSei said:

Is there a reason why you chose Sophia to fulfill this role?

Sophia's bulk is the reason. Higher ATK and SPD does not matter. She is playing a similar role as M!Robin but against the more threatening G Mages instead of R Lords (Reinhardt kills all R's). Takes almost 0 DMG from Colourless and OHKO's them in return.

Edited by Clogon
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24 minutes ago, KinoSei said:

I really like the build that you have on Sophia there, how do you think she compares to other red tome users who run a similar kit, like Sanaki, Lilina, or Tharja? 

Sanaki already has inherent Triangle Adept, so she only needs Raudhrraven from Henry. She has enough firepower and resistance to blow green mages away so R Tomebreaker or Swordbreaker may be more optimal. Lilina is quite similar to Sanaki in terms of stat line, so something similar could be run on her as well, however these two have to watch out for strong physical green units as well such as Brave Axe Cherche, because of their paper thin defenses. 

Tharja has about the same attack as Sophia, higher speed, and overall less bulk. She can take a hit from some 1 ranged units due to her speed and acceptable bullk, unless the opponent is running R Tomebreaker or a brave weapon color that isn't nerfed by TA. Tharja's speed makes her a target for R Tomebreaker by slower mages, so she can run that so as to not be outdone, or run something like Desperation because her speed allows for it.

Is there a reason why you chose Sophia to fulfill this role? Is it because you like her as a character? Sorry for asking so many questions and stating my opinions all at once lol. I'm new to this thread, and I just wanted to get my thoughts out there.

The original reason I used Sophia was because she was the best fit for my team on the previous bonus hero set. The reason she's still on my team is because she does her job really well.

Before putting Sophia on my team, that slot was occupied by Ryoma. After a careful look at what my team could and couldn't handle, I realized that I wasn't really using Ryoma much at all. He provided Hone Spd 3 support, did chip damage against swords, and had me covered for green units. Except that green units wore him down rather quickly. Nino could easily take Ryoma down to single digits in a single hit, and Hector could bring Ryoma down to 15 HP before I could bring him down.

Sophia became a bonus hero, and I decided to try her out, initially running Triangle Adept 3 as the only customization. And she did really well. Being able to initiate combat at range meant she could chip enemy swords while taking no damage in return, and her absurd bulk meant that most green units simply couldn't deal respectable damage to her. Furthermore, her low Spd meant I could use enemy green units to charge up her special skill, which due to her high Atk and the fact that the bonus damage ignores the weapon triangle made her really good at softening up even enemy blue units.

Triangle Adept meant that Raudhrraven+ was a logical weapon to change to, and that meant I was safe finally switching out Robin for Nowi late last season. Raudhrraven+'s slightly lower Atk meant that I needed G Tomebreaker to guarantee a kill against Julia, and also kept me safe from the common Gronnblade+ users.

 

The main reason I feel Sophia is superior to the other red mages for this particular role is her massive mixed bulk. Even if the other red mages outperform her offensively, Sophia only needs an occasional dance if she absolutely needs to secure a kill. Otherwise, she is capable of counter killing every green mage and has no trouble tanking a hit from an axe user and deleting them on the following turn.

Against the AI, the best way to force a unit to move in an easily predictable manner is to move a unit into its attack range. Because of this, Sophia's high defenses make it extremely safe to snipe a Nino, Cecilia, or Spring Camilla as a counter kill or to pull an axe user away from the rest of my army (especially since Triangle Adept Ninian typically sticks to Sophia and is a magnet for green units).

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22 hours ago, Ice Dragon said:

The main reason I feel Sophia is superior to the other red mages for this particular role is her massive mixed bulk. Even if the other red mages outperform her offensively, Sophia only needs an occasional dance if she absolutely needs to secure a kill. Otherwise, she is capable of counter killing every green mage and has no trouble tanking a hit from an axe user and deleting them on the following turn.

Against the AI, the best way to force a unit to move in an easily predictable manner is to move a unit into its attack range. Because of this, Sophia's high defenses make it extremely safe to snipe a Nino, Cecilia, or Spring Camilla as a counter kill or to pull an axe user away from the rest of my army (especially since Triangle Adept Ninian typically sticks to Sophia and is a magnet for green units).

I see, I only thought about her performance as an individual unit, and not really how she'd fit on your team specifically or on any team for that matter. That'll be good reference for teambuilding in the future. Thanks!

 

While I'm on this thread I'd like to ask for thoughts on my team. 

-Sharena: Fensalir | Rally Attack | Moonbow | Fury 3 | Swordbreaker 3/Quick Riposte 2 | Fortify Defense 3 | Speed +1

-Hector [+Res, -Spd]: Armads | Swap | Escutcheon | Distant Counter | Renewal 3 | Hone Speed 3 | HP +3

-Tharja [+Spd, -HP] (Set 1):  Raudhrraven+ | Reposition | Draconic Aura | Triangle Adept 3 | G Tomebreaker 3/R Tomebreaker 3/Wings of Mercy 3 | Hone Attack 3 | Attack +1

(Set 2): Raudhrblade+ | Reposition | Moonbow | Darting Blow 3/Life and Death 2 | Wings of Mercy 3/Desperation 3 | Hone Attack +3 | Attack +1

-Kagero [+Atk, -Def]: Poison Dagger+ | Ardent Sacrifice/Reciprocal Aid | Moonbow | Death Blow 2/Fury 3 | Seal Attack 3/Vantage 3 | Fortify Resistance 3

The combination of a lack of money and relatively bad luck on colors other than green (thankfully I was able to pull the axe man who can hit you from the other side of the mountain), led me to be unable to pull any dancers, aside from Olivia. In hindsight I could've invested some resources in Olivia, but I was focusing on promoting Sharena who is essentially, now, the leader of my army.  

I opted to run a defensive team instead, which aims to counter and ORKO as much as possible; this also doubles as my defense team. Hector and Tharja (when running set 1) do an especially good job of handing enemy ranged nukers. Hector can comfortably take on blue mages thanks to his Res boon and buff, along with passive recovery. Red mages with Raudhrraven Triangle Adept and R Tomebreaker, may pose a problem as my Kagero can't take them out in one shot, and will be reverse KO'd. If I opt to run my set 2 Tharja, with full buffs, she'll be able to take out any red mage in one shot assuming they don't run an HP seal and Res boon/buff. However, she won't be as comfortable taking hits from Nino and Julia anymore. Sharena is there to provide support and take on 1 ranged red and blue units with the exception of brave lancers. Kagero can comfortably one shot any infantry from afar who is not a -raven tome user, and take on ranged users on enemy phase if she's running Vantage. I chose Hone and Fortify skills as the C passives for my team because set 2 Tharja benefits off of buffs more, and Threaten and Spur skills are harder to perform when AI is controlling the units.

This team can handle enemy horse emblem decently but suffers against semi-flier emblem teams with dancers/singers on the lava and grid-like water maps (I've attached images of those maps if you didn't know which ones I was talking about) due to the superior mobility and offensive pressure attributed to these non-grounded units. I haven't encountered enough Armor and Dragon Emblem teams to really have an opinion on facing them at this time. I could opt to run an archer like Quadsuna who can still do major damage to infantry and help out against fliers, but I would need to start investing in one starting now, not to mention finding one with good IVs; the trade-off is that Kagero can help my tankier units take hits more comfortably due to seal attack and potentially score a KO thanks to being softened up by her attack.

Any thoughts as to what additional weaknesses this team may have? What skills, or unit swaps I can try to help alleviate those weaknesses? Also feel free to ask me other questions regarding my team choice if I wasn't clear enough. 

And on a final unrelated note, I know I probably shouldn't be wasting any more resources, but practically everyone was sacrificing Nino to S!Camilla, and so I felt compelled to give Nino some justice with a Green Egg of her own. Her cuteness is now on an absolutely destructive level; she looks like she's about to throw a football lol.

Map_Z0004.png

Map_Z0010.png

Nino's doing her best.png

Edited by KinoSei
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Completed that single-death run, though I was kinda disappointed with the amount of points, even discounting the death. For whatever reason, this team was getting mostly 680 matches, while last week's team was getting closer to 686. They're both same rarity and I've filled out all the skills for everyone (in fact, Spring Chrom had an empty B slot, so technically, I have more skill slots filled with this team) and am using all my seals. It's baffling. I may have to go back to using my old team for more points (I think I might drop Spring Chrom for Nowi, though, since more Distant Counter is always nice and I pulled second Nowi from Battling Zephiel, meaning I can finally actually have a merge! Then again, Reinhardt or Nino might be better picks in a team that otherwise only has one ranged...).

Anyway, finished the streak last night, but went to bed before I could grab the rank, so I'll just use the current time. Score of 4701:

  • Apr 21 9AM PST - #13 301
Edited by Kuroi Tsubasa Tenshi
Apparently I don't know how to notate date and time.
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Finally got a deathless run, which is especially nice since I didn't manage one at all last week. Got scared at the start of the 7th match when I realized I'd just agreed to fight a Peri team, since I want to avoid cavalry teams and I would've bailed before the fight if I'd thought about it (especially with it being the 7th match), but it turned out to be a conventional and plenty manageable team.

Score of 4,794, which is currently sitting at 2,221! Hopefully that's solidly enough in the top 5k to stay there, and even if not, top 10k is still better than last week. I do still need a defense win, though.

Edited by Othin
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Just did a deathless run for 4802 points.I used my main Team of Reinhardt, Sanaki, Hector plus Cherche as a bonus unit.

 

This puts me at rank 1730. Thats been my highest rank so far. Finally having a 5 Star bonus unit helped a ton. Does anybody know how much more points would be needed to break top 1000? I think i could get like 30 more points from reseting my battles and some additional inheritance.

Anyway, here's my team:

Hector (+Res, -Atk) Pivot, Bonefire, Vantage

Sanaki +1 (+Atk, -Hp) Raventome, Drawback, Moonbow, TA3, Swordbreaker

Reinhardt +1 (+Res, -Spd) DB3, Moonbow, R-Tomebreaker

Cherche (+Def, -Hp) Brave Axe+, Reposition, Draconic Aura, DB3, Quick Riposte 3

 

With this team om trying to counter all those mages in the current meta. I've been fighting alot of double mage + dancer defense teams. I have a range counter option for every ranged color. Tomebreaker on Reinhardt is needed so he can oneround all red mages. Though he would need another Proc since moonbow is kind of wasted when countering red mages. I personaly dont think lancebreaker is needed for Reinhardt.

Generally my playstyle is putting one of my three ranged counterattackers in the range of a mage and win from that point.

Cherche has been kins of dissapointing. Her only contribution to the run was killing an Effie and Repositioning Hector over a water tile. I mostly used Reinhard and Sanaki to delete enemies. Still, she was my first 5 Star bonus unit since like 4 weeks.

Edited by Nathair
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On 2/16/2017 at 11:18 AM, Ryuke said:

Do you people ever use dueling sword redeem?

 

I am unrank and my defensive result is 261. Guess my team is good and I cannot even utilize them correctly (jk)

(Super late on this but don't care)

I redeem duel swords a lot, but only because I have a boatload and can never seem to get rid of them. I swear I consistently have ~50

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