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Arena Discussion Thread (inc. Assault)


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21 minutes ago, Okigen said:

So....in the quest for Hector I managed to pull 10 Ninos. In general, does a +9 4* character give same arena score as a normal 5*+9?

Not even close. That said, a 4* +10 should be worth around a 5* +3 or something, and for a lot cheaper. (You still need to spend 20k feathers to get a 5* weapon, but 11 4*s is roughly 22k feathers + 20k vs. the 80k of a 5* +3)

 

Edit: That said... probably better just to save them and merge up the 5* version when you have the feathers, if you really want arena score. Unless, of course, you don't actually like Nino enough to keep her a permanent fixture on the team, in which case a +10 merge without a 5* weapon is a cheap 20k effective feather cost.

Edited by DehNutCase
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14 minutes ago, DehNutCase said:

Not even close. That said, a 4* +10 should be worth around a 5* +3 or something, and for a lot cheaper. (You still need to spend 20k feathers to get a 5* weapon, but 11 4*s is roughly 22k feathers + 20k vs. the 80k of a 5* +3)

 

Edit: That said... probably better just to save them and merge up the 5* version when you have the feathers, if you really want arena score. Unless, of course, you don't actually like Nino enough to keep her a permanent fixture on the team, in which case a +10 merge without a 5* weapon is a cheap 20k effective feather cost.

Thanks a lot, I'll try to merge all of them and see how it goes then.

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I am having such a fustrating time in the arena recently. I just cannot get a winning streak going anymore, not even on intermediate difficulty. This is really going to hamper my hero feather production and they are such a pain to get otherwise. I think its just because I'm bad at this game and have no confidence in getting my units out there and losing constantly is not going to make things better. I just don't know what I am doing wrong! Is my team composition wrong? Well I only have a select few 5* units on my main account and unfortunately any holes in my team the game happens to find in an opposing team and picks it for me to face. I just want to have a chill time with this game and not get too competivive and overthink things because to me that only brings stress and overall isn't fun. I don't know whether anyone can suggest anything but any sort of help would be appreciated, thanks.

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16 minutes ago, sdgj1994 said:

I am having such a fustrating time in the arena recently. I just cannot get a winning streak going anymore, not even on intermediate difficulty. This is really going to hamper my hero feather production and they are such a pain to get otherwise. I think its just because I'm bad at this game and have no confidence in getting my units out there and losing constantly is not going to make things better. I just don't know what I am doing wrong! Is my team composition wrong? Well I only have a select few 5* units on my main account and unfortunately any holes in my team the game happens to find in an opposing team and picks it for me to face. I just want to have a chill time with this game and not get too competivive and overthink things because to me that only brings stress and overall isn't fun. I don't know whether anyone can suggest anything but any sort of help would be appreciated, thanks.

Note that a way to have an easier time in arena is to deliberately lower your team's score while increasing absolute strength. Do this by taking out all the unnecessary skills, or skills that don't do much, run the cheapest skills that do what you need it to. (Ruby Sword rather than Ruby+, leave special slot free if offenses are good enough already, Fury 3 on a 4* character rather than 5* without an A-slot skill, etc.) Only 1 copy of a buff skill per team, etc.

I do the opposite by stuffing my units with tons of skills, even if they're not always relevant, to increase my score. (Necessary to get into the 680 range with 4* bonus units, given that I don't have the starting 3 5*d yet.)

 

Edit: That's just the scoring portion, though. You can probably get some advice about building an arena team by showing up a picture of your box either here or in the questions thread, and asking about team composition in general.

 

Off-topic: Thinking about it, we should probably have a thread for Team Archetypes like the team construction template advice threads on Smogon.

Edited by DehNutCase
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15 minutes ago, DehNutCase said:

Note that a way to have an easier time in arena is to deliberately lower your team's score while increasing absolute strength. Do this by taking out all the unnecessary skills, or skills that don't do much, run the cheapest skills that do what you need it to. (Ruby Sword rather than Ruby+, leave special slot free offenses are good enough already, Fury 3 on a 4* character rather than 5* without an A-slot skill, etc.) Only 1 copy of a buff skill per team, etc.

 

I do the opposite by stuffing my units with tons of skills, even if they're not always relevant, to increase my score. (Necessary to get into the 680 range with 4* bonus units, given that I don't have the starting 3 5*d yet.)

So... basically just don't use skill inheritance or sacred seals? What I'm trying to do is build a team around Zephiel as he is a bonus unit right now. I'm just not sure if I have the units though... the team I tried was Lucina, Ninian, Nino and Zephiel, all 5* bar Zephiel. All decked out with inherited skills, but no sacred seals as I forgot to equip them. The only other "dominant" 5* unit I have is a +1 Takumi, and even then his usefulness has dropped in recent times. Other maxed 5*s I have: Marth, Lyn, Karel, Xander, +1 Spring Xander, Clair, Shanna, +1 Hinoka, Spring Chrom, Camilla. Then I have a bunch of maxed out 4*s that could do the trick too: Sharena, Effie, +1 Cordelia, +1 Nowi, both Corrins, both Robins, Ursula, Arthur, Michalis, Cherche, Klein, Kagero. Anything that works together here?

Edited by sdgj1994
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22 minutes ago, sdgj1994 said:

So... basically just don't use skill inheritance or sacred seals? What I'm trying to do is build a team around Zephiel as he is a bonus unit right now. I'm just not sure if I have the units though... the team I tried was Lucina, Ninian, Nino and Zephiel, all 5* bar Zephiel. All decked out with inherited skills, but no sacred seals as I forgot to equip them. The only other "dominant" 5* unit I have is a +1 Takumi, and even then his usefulness has dropped in recent times. Other 5*s I have: Marth, Lyn, Karel, Xander, +1 Spring Xander, Clair, Shanna, +1 Hinoka, Spring Chrom, Camilla. Then I have a bunch of maxed out 4*s that could do the trick too: Sharena, Effie, +1 Cordelia, +1 Nowi, both Corrins, both Robins, Ursula, Arthur, Michalis, Cherche, Klein, Kagero. Anything that works together here?

Decking units out with inherited skills make them worth a lot more, score-wise. (Think of it like this, yeah, your units get stronger, but so do your arena opponents. For inherited skills to be worth it, your units have to be getting stronger faster than the rate your average opponent is getting stronger. So you have to make sure you're getting the bang for your buck. This is a unit construction issue, and something a lot of us could help with.)

 

Edit: There are certain tricks you can do to make a team strong while making their point total drop like crazy. I did that to my defense team, an Azura, Rein, Olwen team led by Selena with minimal skills equipped (basically only Death Blow for Rein and Darting for Olwen, +3 Spd for Azura) and Selena at 3*---note that a 3* Selena with Ruby Sword, Fury 2, and Renewal still destroys the greens the rest of the team has problems with.

 

First: What's your Ninian build, and do you have an Azura or Olivia? (Not meaning to slam Ninian, but she needs T-Adept 3 to run the Gem-Weapon sets the other two could run, meaning she misses out on being able to use the A-slot for a skill. Fury 3 for all around bulk and damage, Spd 3 to break certain speed tiers.)

Second: What nature is your Klein or Takumi? (Giving the one with +Atk a L&D\DB Brave Bow+ build will solve so many problems alongside a decent, long cd special, and a dancer.)

Third: Do you have a Cordelia? (I laugh whenever I see Cordelia below Sharena on the tier list, 35/35 offenses is better than Lucina tier. I guess there's a reason the wiki people think Reinhardt isn't S-tier.) Edit: Or rather, what nature is your Cordelia? Note that a 4* Cordelia loses effectively 5 Atk compared to a 5*, due to 2 pts from the star level difference and 3 points from the weapon difference, meaning she wouldn't feel nearly as dominant as she should.

Edited by DehNutCase
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11 minutes ago, sdgj1994 said:

So... basically just don't use skill inheritance or sacred seals? What I'm trying to do is build a team around Zephiel as he is a bonus unit right now. I'm just not sure if I have the units though... the team I tried was Lucina, Ninian, Nino and Zephiel, all 5* bar Zephiel. All decked out with inherited skills, but no sacred seals as I forgot to equip them. The only other "dominant" 5* unit I have is a +1 Takumi, and even then his usefulness has dropped in recent times. Other maxed 5*s I have: Marth, Lyn, Karel, Xander, +1 Spring Xander, Clair, Shanna, +1 Hinoka, Spring Chrom, Camilla. Then I have a bunch of maxed out 4*s that could do the trick too: Sharena, Effie, +1 Cordelia, +1 Nowi, both Corrins, both Robins, Ursula, Arthur, Michalis, Cherche, Klein, Kagero. Anything that works together here?

Uhm..... what is the buff that you are using for Nino? If she's not doing her best how about replacing her by that Takumi+1 or Kagero?

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9 minutes ago, DehNutCase said:

Decking units out with inherited skills make them worth a lot more, score-wise. (Think of it like this, yeah, your units get stronger, but so do your arena opponents. For inherited skills to be worth it, your units have to be getting stronger faster than the rate your average opponent is getting stronger. So you have to make sure you're getting the bang for your buck.)

 

First: What's your Ninian build, and do you have an Azura or Olivia? (Not meaning to slam Ninian, but she needs T-Adept 3 to run the Gem-Weapon sets the other two could run, meaning she misses out on being able to use the A-slot for a skill. Fury 3 for all around bulk and damage, Spd 3 to break certain speed tiers.)

Second: What nature is your Klein or Takumi? (Giving the one with +Atk a L&D\DB Brave Bow+ build will solve so many problems alongside a decent, long cd special, and a dancer.)

Third: Do you have a Cordelia? (I laugh whenever I see Cordelia below Sharena on the tier list, 35/35 offenses is better than Lucina tier. I guess there's a reason the wiki people think Reinhardt isn't S-tier.)

My Ninian only has Fury 1, and is +Res -HP I believe. Funnily enough I pulled Azura yesterday, but she's +Res -Atk, and still needs levels/skills.

Klein and Takumi have the same nature, +Atk -Def. And as I said Takumi is merged and therefore starts with a whopping 50 attack. But his speed could be better.

I thought I mentioned I have a +1 level 40 4* Cordelia? I think she's +Atk too, not sure on her bane though.

So if I just want, say, 2000 feathers a week, I guess it would be best for me to not run skill inherited teams. I'm not looking to be the best; I just want the feathers.

3 minutes ago, Okigen said:

Uhm..... what is the buff that you are using for Nino? If she's not doing her best how about replacing her by that Takumi+1 or Kagero?

It might be worth replacing her with Takumi in that case, Nino isn't getting enough buffs. But then what if I encounter a Triangle Adept, Bowbreaker, M!Robin like I did once? Maybe I wont without skill inheritance, but still he will be a threat without Nino around.

Edited by sdgj1994
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11 minutes ago, sdgj1994 said:

My Ninian only has Fury 1, and is +Res -HP I believe. Funnily enough I pulled Azura yesterday, but she's +Res -Atk, and still needs levels/skills.

Klein and Takumi have the same nature, +Atk -Def. And as I said Takumi is merged and therefore starts with a whopping 50 attack. But his speed could be better.

I thought I mentioned I have a +1 level 40 4* Cordelia? I think she's +Atk too, not sure on her bane though.

So if I just want, say, 2000 feathers a week, I guess it would be best for me to not run skill inherited teams. I'm not looking to be the best; I just want the feathers.

You have some amazing units, then. I ran my 4.7k run this week with: 5*+1 Cordelia, Vanilla 5* +Atk\-Spd Klein, -Hp\+Def Azura, and Vanilla 4* Zephiel.

 

Just a matter of putting the team together.

 

So... who do you like the most? Any 2 different colored (edit: they're all different colors, lol) units of: Nino, Lucina, Takumi, Cordelia; a dancer, and a bonus unit could stomp pretty easily. Cordelia just needs L&D and being 5*d to turn into a murder machine, Nino wants L&D, some buffs on other people's C-slots, and desperation, Takumi wants Klein's Bow and Either L&D or just take his Death Blow as well. (L&D is a lot stronger, but DB is still amazing, because Takumi is amazing). Lucina is Lucina, pretty much impossible to mess her up.

 

Edit: -Atk Azura has the same Atk as =Olivia (or +Atk Ninian), incidentally, so she's still fine in the offenses department. I'd suggest trading Ninian for her if you want your dancer to actually kill people---since Falchions are all red.

Edited by DehNutCase
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2 minutes ago, DehNutCase said:

You have some amazing units, then. I ran my 4.7k run this week with: 5+1 Cordelia, Vanilla +Atk\-Spd Klein, -Hp/+Def Azura, and Vanilla 4* Zephiel.

 

Just a matter of putting the team together.

 

So... who do you like the most? Any 2, different colored units of: Nino, Lucina, Takumi, Cordelia; a dancer, and a bonus unit could stomp pretty easily. Cordelia just needs L&D and being 5*d to turn into a murder machine, Nino wants L&D, some buffs on other people's C-slots, and desperation, Takumi wants Klein's Bow and Either L&D or just take his Death Blow as well. (L&D is a lot stronger, but DB is still amazing, because Takumi is amazing). Lucina is Lucina, pretty much impossible to mess her up.

I don't have many units with L&D, Nino has Fury and Desperation which seem to combo well together. But if we're using Takumi instead, who has Vantage as well as his default skill set (he had Shove too which only works in a pinch), would it be worth giving him a regular Brave Bow over his Fujin Yumi? Its all I can give him and it has 9 less might than the Yumi, but attacking twice with 41 atk sounds powerful. Though Klein has one more might with Death Blow and he has Quick Riposte too... decisions! Yeah Lucina is impossible to mess up, as long as you don't encounter anyone with Swordbreaker or a powerful blue unit or two. I had Nino to counter the blues that Lucina would struggle with. Without her... idk, maybe Cordelia would be better this time? Even if she isn't 5* with her murder set (I have 21 feathers, I'm so poor!) she could still be pretty good so may give her a go.

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13 minutes ago, sdgj1994 said:

I don't have many units with L&D, Nino has Fury and Desperation which seem to combo well together. But if we're using Takumi instead, who has Vantage as well as his default skill set (he had Shove too which only works in a pinch), would it be worth giving him a regular Brave Bow over his Fujin Yumi? Its all I can give him and it has 9 less might than the Yumi, but attacking twice with 41 atk sounds powerful. Though Klein has one more might with Death Blow and he has Quick Riposte too... decisions! Yeah Lucina is impossible to mess up, as long as you don't encounter anyone with Swordbreaker or a powerful blue unit or two. I had Nino to counter the blues that Lucina would struggle with. Without her... idk, maybe Cordelia would be better this time? Even if she isn't 5* with her murder set (I have 21 feathers, I'm so poor!) she could still be pretty good so may give her a go.

If you like Takumi, I suggest waiting on 20k feathers to promote Klein. Then: Pick up DB2 from somewhere (4* Hawkeye or something), and then take DB3, Brave Bow, and Brave Bow+ from Klein.

Nino's fine with Fury Desperation, incidentally, I just like L&D because I pulled half a dozen Hanas. (Make sure to have Hone Atk on one of your units---probably the dancer. Hone speed is also nice, but not as essential as Hone Atk. Buffs make Braves and -blades a lot stronger.)

Since Cordelia's still 4*, I suggest: Azura, Nino, Zephiel, and Takumi for now. If you have a cheap, non-Klein source of brave-bow (Gordin), give it to Takumi, and try to nab DB2 and Dragonic Aura\Dragon Fang as well. Give Azura Hone Atk and always try to position so Takumi and Nino gets the buffs. Zephiel is positioned to tank 1 round if needed, and to kill people if needed. Dude's min-maxed to hell and shouldn't be losing fights against non-blues, even 4* vs. 5*.

 

Azura picks off Reds if neither Zephiel nor Takumi could cover, and just play: Takumi and Nino kill everyone with Azura's buffs and songs. Savage Blow on Nino or Takumi would also be pretty good to deal AoE chip (to secure 1RKOs) if you don't need the C-slot for buffs.

 

Edit: You'll also want a bunch of movement assist skills, since all-out offensive teams like the one I suggested lives and dies based off positioning.

Double Edit: Note that a hyper-offense team will probably take a few matches to get used to, so don't be discouraged if you can't seem to secure deathless runs right off the bat.

 

Edited by DehNutCase
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56 minutes ago, DehNutCase said:

If you like Takumi, I suggest waiting on 20k feathers to promote Klein. Then: Pick up DB2 from somewhere (4* Hawkeye or something), and then take DB3, Brave Bow, and Brave Bow+ from Klein.

Nino's fine with Fury Desperation, incidentally, I just like L&D because I pulled half a dozen Hanas. (Make sure to have Hone Atk on one of your units---probably the dancer. Hone speed is also nice, but not as essential as Hone Atk. Buffs make Braves and -blades a lot stronger.)

Since Cordelia's still 4*, I suggest: Azura, Nino, Zephiel, and Takumi for now. (If you have a cheap, non-Klein source of brave-bow (Gordin), give it to Takumi, and try to nab DB2 as well. Give Azura Hone Atk and always try to position so Takumi and Nino gets the buffs. Zephiel is positioned to tank 1 round if needed, and to kill people if needed. Dude's min-maxed to hell and shouldn't be losing fights against non-blues, even 4* vs. 5*.)

 

 

Right, Takumi now has a Brave Bow, and Azura Hone Atk 2 (only source of that I had was a 3* Gwendolyn). I think Azura still needs levels (she's only level 28) as lowered stats may affect the arena score a bit. And I will try full inheritance for now, if that still gives me troubles then I will take them off and see what happens.

EDIT: So I just used Nino, Azura, Zephiel and Takumi in the Arena and I managed to do a whole run on Intermediate without losing, then a whole run on Advanced without losing! Would have been deathless if it weren't for one match where Azura got KO'd, but what can you do. I encountered a lot of Hectors on Advanced and had Zephiel not been there my team would have been walled! Thanks for all the help on the teambuilding @DehNutCase!

Edited by sdgj1994
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16 hours ago, salinea said:

Congrats!

I also did my highest score ever at 4,796... so not as good as yours.

What's your team?

I'm running Soren (+atk -spd, raven adept build), Ike (+atk -spd, basic build), Azura (+spd -def) and Zephiel (Basically, my last 5* "summons", they completely benched my whole team).

What's yours? I think, in my case,  it's Zephiel who's pushing up the scores because o his high BST. It's Soren and Ike who kill almost everything, though.

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Got a second deathless run, bumping up my score to 4,820. Rank only went up to 2,710, which is good but nowhere near the next feather threshold, and even with continuing to work on my characters' skills, I don't really see a third run changing that unless the points-to-score increase just keeps getting faster.

Still no defense wins. Having Xander replace m!Robin on my mage team (alongside s!Lucina/Lilina/Olivia) hasn't seemed effective, so I'm swapping him back out until I get more cavalry partners for him.

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After changing my mindset about base stat, i tried to change my team with a merged unit regardless of base stat and lucky i got a +1 Julia.

With Julia, Ogma, Ike and Sharena my team is way more satisfying and thus i getting a solid score of 4834. But the rank is way lower from the last week, 1500 last week to probably 2000 at the end. My problem is still not solved, so i need still changes on my team to even maintain my rank. I thinking about to spend my last 40 orbs to pull a Hector or waiting for next week, when voting gauntlet banner comes up with Julia to increase the chance for a +2. I appreciate any suggestions from you guys.

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Score of 4,768 is just ba-a-arely clinging to top 10k at 9,339 right now.

I wonder if a +1 Soren would add some potential to my score after I level him up? I must stay in top 10k for those feathers!

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@sdgj1994 @DehNutCase If you have the resources for it, Takumi with a Brave Bow/Life and Death set has a much better matchup spread than Takumi with a Brave Bow/Death Blow set. 

Also, if you choose to go with a Brave Bow set, Vantage isn't particularly worth it on him (or Brave users in general). Instead, I would go for a breaker skill, like Swordbreaker or Lancebreaker (whichever covers more of what your team has trouble with). Desperation is also worth considering.

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2 hours ago, r4v1sh said:

I'm running Soren (+atk -spd, raven adept build), Ike (+atk -spd, basic build), Azura (+spd -def) and Zephiel (Basically, my last 5* "summons", they completely benched my whole team).

What's yours? I think, in my case,  it's Zephiel who's pushing up the scores because o his high BST. It's Soren and Ike who kill almost everything, though.

Ike (+att, -def) QR 2, Swap and Hone Speed (and Luna still), Julia (+Def, -Res, GTB, Draw Back), Sharena (Glimmer, Renewal 2), Klein (Reposition, Spur Att 2)

I suppose I could try to get 3rd level on more of the passive skills, and Ike's Aether for higher BST. Sharena's kit definitely could be better.

Man, I wish I had gotten Soren. I know Ike is the better unit, but he's one of my fave and I keep failing to draw him *sighs*

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Usually I'm content with my intermediate runs. I usually never rank for obvious reasons, but its an easy ~2200 feathers. But for kicks I tried an advanced run, deathless if possible, with Kagero(5*, with darting blow 2)/Azura/Nino(4*, minor SI)/Clarine (4*, Physic).

 A score of 4434. A personal best! I got scared on the last match though and settled on a beginner so I could break 4000 (by match 6 I was 4000 on the dot). Shame though, looking through here those extra hundred or so from going Advanced probably would have broken through the 50,000-100,000 ranking.

Low BST teams like this are fascinating. Even advanced would usually throw in a sub-40 unit or two and without a set of decked out skills. I had a significantly easier time with this than I have on some intermediate runs because of it.

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Score of 4822:

  • May 3 9PM PT - #1276
  • May 4 3PM PT - #1799
  • May 5 3PM PT - #2232
  • May 6 3PM PT - #2645

Local swordfighters brutally violated by scantily dressed little girl (translation: I ran into a defense team of four swords with a TA3 Nowi on mine). Probably not improving the score at all (not that any possible gains would get me more feathers). The least streak looks semi-promising, but then dumped me with a bunch of 684 and 686s. The current streak is starting with a 686 and a 684, so unless my last three free swords are something dumb like all 696, I won't be investing a crest.

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Score of 4884 with Linde+2 in place of Reinhardt+3. All fully skill inherited.

So on average, Linde+2 gives 2 pts more per match even though she's 1 level merged below Rein. I wonder how well an armor team will perform then... :rolleyes:

Edited by Okigen
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10 minutes ago, Kuroi Tsubasa Tenshi said:

Local swordfighters brutally violated by scantily dressed little girl

This is the part where someone makes a joke about how the scantily dressed little girl is violating the sword fighters and not the other way around

3 minutes ago, Okigen said:

Score of 4884 with Linde+2 in place of Reinhardt+3. All fully skill inherited.

So on average, Linde+2 gives 2 pts more per match even though she's 1 level merged below Rein.

The cost of whatever skill you put on them matters, so its probably because Linde has a more expensive skill set!

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Finally finished training my team. This went rather well. Opponents are in the 700-710 score range. I cherry-picked only opponents worth 706-710.

Score: 4,956
Rank: ???
Defense: 300 (8 successes)

Arena offense team:

+1 Sophia [+Atk, -Spd] (Raudhrraven+, (none), Dragon Fang, Triangle Adept 3, G Tomebreaker 3, Fortify Res 3)
+10 Ninian [+Spd, -Res] (Lightning Breath+, Dance, (none), Triangle Adept 3, Escape Route 3, Fortify Dragons, S HP +3)
+2 Titania [+Spd, -Res] (Emerald Axe+, Reposition, Iceberg, Distant Counter, Guard 3, Hone Cavalry)
+4 Reinhardt [+Atk, -Spd] (Dire Thunder, Reposition, Blazing Thunder, Death Blow 3, Vantage 3, Hone Cavalry)

I ran into a team with 2 Reinhardts and a Spring Camilla on the map with the checkerboard destructible walls. The Reinhardts walked into Titania and died. The Camilla walked into Sophia and died. Reinhardt doinked the remaining Lyn out of existence. It was glorious.

My toughest match was against Eldigan, Azura, Reinhardt, and Nino (in that order) on the map with the parallel walls. Reposition saved the day big time at the end when it looked like I was going to have to sacrifice someone to the Nino (even though I think Titania would have survived anyways).

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