Arena Discussion Thread (inc. Assault)

[Ice Dragon]

Ugh, screwed up on the mountain pass map and lost Julia to Ryoma due to mussing up my prediction with the usual dancer and Draw Back shenanigans.

That said, I still managed a score of 4,971, which is comfortably in the range to go up to Tier 19:

Tier 18
Score: 4,971 (1 death, 716-724 per run)
Rank: 450 out of 4,642 (9.7%, 18→19)
Defense: 586 (10+)

Current offense team:

+5 Celica [+Atk, -Def] (Ragnarok, Reciprocal Aid, Draconic Aura, Life and Death 3, Renewal 3, Spur Def 3)
+10 Ninian [+Spd, -Res] (Lightning Breath+, Dance, (none), Triangle Adept 3, Escape Route 3, Fortify Dragons, S HP +3)
+10 Nowi [+Atk, -Res] (Lightning Breath+, Rally Def, New Moon, Triangle Adept 3, Quick Riposte 3, Fortify Dragon, S Atk +1)
+9 Julia [=] (vanilla)

Current defense team:

+9 Julia [=] (vanilla)
+0 Cherche [+Atk, -Res] (Brave Axe+, Reposition, (none), Death Blow 3, (none), Hone Fliers)
+5 Camilla (Spring) [+Spd, -Res] (Gronnblade+, Reposition, Draconic Aura, Fury 3, G Tomebreaker 3, Hone Fliers)
+8 Minerva [+Spd, -Res] (Hauteclere, Reposition, Bonfire, Fury 3, Drag Back, Hone Fliers, S Fortify Res 1)

I replaced Julia with my previous +0 Celica [+Spd, -Res] (Ragnarok, (none), Rising Light, Distant Def 2, Renewal 3, (none)) for the 586 defense win, then switched back to Julia.

[SatsumaFSoysoy]

Seeing all these Defense wins line up makes me extremely happy. I wish there was some way to see how people lost, so I can cheer myself up when I'm upset.

[DehNutCase]

11 minutes ago, SatsumaFSoysoy said:

Seeing all these Defense wins line up makes me extremely happy. I wish there was some way to see how people lost, so I can cheer myself up when I'm upset.

A lot of it might just be because people aren't used to the new maps. I can feel myself getting better at the new maps as I play more games---the fact that Alfonse is a bit trickier to use properly compared to Zephiel is probably a part of it. Not having Wary Fighter means he gets away with a lot less than Zephiel and his absurd bulk.

[SatsumaFSoysoy]

1 minute ago, DehNutCase said:

A lot of it might just be because people aren't used to the new maps. I can feel myself getting better at the new maps as I play more games---the fact that Alfonse is a bit trickier to use properly compared to Zephiel is probably a part of it. Not having Wary Fighter means he gets away with a lot less than Zephiel and his absurd bulk.

Probably, since I am getting almost double of what I usually get. The one with mountains and a grid of fort tiles in the middle is especially annoying for me.

[Dual Dragons]

5/27/2017 - offense 4,770; rank (tier17) 7,470 (2:29AM PST) [deathless]

Team:
(all Level 40 and 5*)
+Atk/-Spd Ninian
+Res/-HP Ryoma
+Atk/-Spd Reinhardt
+Atk/-Spd Roy
Total BST: 667

Scores: 682, 682, 682, 682, 680, 682, 680
Surrenders: 2; both before final and for predicted unfavorable match-ups
Defense: 558; replaces Roy with a leading 4* Level 40 Subaki with all available default skills

Spoilers are skill lists with italics being inheritance:
 

Spoiler

Ninian - Light Breath+, Dance, Wings of Mercy 2, Fortify Defense 2, Speed +1 (seal)
Ryoma - Raijinto, Swap, Night Sky, Defiant Atk 3, Vantage 3, Hone Spd 3
Reinhardt - Dire Thunder, Reposition, Moonbow, Fury 2, Wings of Mercy 2, Spur Atk 2
Roy - Binding Blade, Shove, Triangle Adept 3, Seal Def 3

Planning to have Ninian learn Hone Attack 3--though I'm wary considering how slow my team is. Only Reinhardt readily takes advantage of it. Ninian and Ryoma have to be up against slower opponents. I might try to see how much it would affect my score.

I lucked out on the final boss. There was no skill inheritance outside of the classic Takumi Vantage. Granted, I almost sent my severely weak Reinhardt who Moonbow'd Takumi prior, which definitely would have cost me a deathless run by Vengeance Vantage. Roy wasn't that useful this run except to wall Hector's.

Out of the new maps, I absolutely loathe the zigzag of defense tiles and breakable walls in the center. I didn't mark a previous run where I lost two units on the final boss alone due to the way that map is constructed. I forgot the exact rank with that score but it was beyond 12K rank in tier. Final boss of that run was Celica, Linde, Julia, and Ninian. And that team probably was by a whale since they were willing to give Celica Swift Sparrow and lots of inheritance for the other girls. I couldn't find a good spot to bait one without expecting Ninian to dance a tome to kill the baiting unit. That Celica had 40+ Speed on initiation and full HP.

Either I'll try to improve score or "trade" defense wins to people.

Edited May 27, 2017 by Dual Dragons

[Xaos Steel Wing]

I still cannot seem to go deathless this week, let alone get 7 wins.

First time I've ever had this much trouble getting 7 wins.

I don't know what it is. It's probably the maps + the combination of dancers (Azura and Ninian) and red mages (Tharja and Celica) suddenly becoming prevalent from the last banners. Both which give me a lot of trouble.

Current team has been Eirika, Hector, Soren, and 4* Subaki (bonus unit).

Time to adjust...

Linde might be good to replace Soren, she would wreck Tharja and Celica, while still being good against Reinhardy and Olwen.

Hector could still take care of blues and can one-shot Julia and Nino.

But my Linde isn't level 40 yet, let alone having enough SP to get all her skills ready...

Edited May 27, 2017 by Xaos Steel Wing

[Cute Chao]

Did a nearly deathless streak. Just one death - soren, whom I accidentally left in the way of marth, not realising he could be reached by the enemy's dancer. I'm currently set to go up a tier, though. I'll see if that remains. I loathe the current maps. Only a few are fun to play -.-

[Roflolxp54]

Got a 4th defense win for a score of 572, beating out my previous best for this week (558). This one's led by a +Spd/-Res Lyn with Reciprocal Aid and Drag Back (ayy, that's almost like my build for Lyn!).

[r4v1sh]

I managed to get 7 wins this week, reaching a total score of 4808... and I'm still up for demotion by quite a margin, it seems. Is anyone able to guess what is the cutting point for promoting to the 19th? I need info to decide if it's worth trying for.

Rank 18 sucks, shoulda stayed on 17th for a little while more. I hadn't realized that there was no 'staying rank' from the 18th onwards, only promotions and demotions.

[SatsumaFSoysoy]

1 hour ago, r4v1sh said:

I managed to get 7 wins this week, reaching a total score of 4808... and I'm still up for demotion by quite a margin, it seems. Is anyone able to guess what is the cutting point for promoting to the 19th? I need info to decide if it's worth trying for.

Rank 18 sucks, shoulda stayed on 17th for a little while more. I hadn't realized that there was no 'staying rank' from the 18th onwards, only promotions and demotions.

Score of 4854 is Rank 1847 in Tier 18 right now, and the cutoff is Rank 1859... I think I'm boned.

[LordFrigid]

Update for 5090 (T18)

6am PDT 5/23: 29

4:45pm PDT 5/24: 48

4:45pm PDT 5/25: 70

4:45pm PDT 5/26: 77

4:45pm PDT 5/27: 83

Teams faced detailed in the previous post. Defense score is still 574.

[r_n]

Bah, did a quick run of arena for 41xx score...not even close to breaking out of the tier drop. Ironically across the past 3 seasons I: dropped one, went up 2, dropped one again...somehow I landed exactly where I began.

 

I wish they'd tell you the score thresholds for each tier. It'd be nice to know how far away I was, or scores to aim for.

[Cute Chao]

8 hours ago, r4v1sh said:

I managed to get 7 wins this week, reaching a total score of 4808... and I'm still up for demotion by quite a margin, it seems. Is anyone able to guess what is the cutting point for promoting to the 19th? I need info to decide if it's worth trying for.

Rank 18 sucks, shoulda stayed on 17th for a little while more. I hadn't realized that there was no 'staying rank' from the 18th onwards, only promotions and demotions.

With that in mind, I'm mostly going to be flittering between Rank 17 and 18 judging by my current performance. I'm on the edge of moving up this time round to 18, but only on the edge (and may end up staying in 17), but I see no chance I'm moving up past that. Oh well. 17 is a good place :D I'll hang some curtains; make it look homely ^.^

[Zeo]

So I'm not entirely sure if this should go in the questions thread or arena thread but I'm going to try here since it's not exactly a question.

I'm having serious trouble getting defense wins, I didn't get a single one last season, I'll give you my units if it helps. But frankly speaking, someone build me a defense team, if you can. Or at least tell me my best team possible.

Spoiler

Active Units (Lvl 40 or near there): 

*5

Leader: 
Lukas (+SPD/-ATK) (A:Fortress Def/B: Draw Back/Threaten Atk 3/Reciprocal Aid/Ignis) 

Soren (+ATK/-RES) (+1) (35 SPD)
Frederick (+HP, -ATK) (+1, other one probably had a better boon/bane)
Cain (+SPD, -ATK)
Hinoka (+SPD, -ATK)
Y!Tiki (+ATK, -RES)
Takumi (+HP,-DEF) / (+SPD, -DEF) (Still deciding on which to keep)
Faye (+DEF, -SPD)
Kagero (+DEF/-RES) (Reciprocal Aid/Hone Spd)

*4

Tharja (+SPD,-ATK)

Xander

Olivia (+SPD/-RES)

(M)Robin (+DEF,-ATK)

Palla (Neutral)

Catria (+ATK,-RES)

Camilla

Gunter

Jagen

Marth (x3) (+ATK/-DEF, +DEF/-SPD) (Active one is +SPD/-RES)

Cherche (+ATK)

Caeda

Wrys

 

I've got some various characters for use or SI fodder like Hana, Lon'qu etc at *4. I also can do Flier Emblem well enough with Ward, Goad and Fortify on deck. But I haven't been securing any defense wins so any help would be appreciated building a defense team. If you need more info I'll give it to you. Also as you can see I have no significant red. Young Tiki is a dragon and I have no powerful sword unit.

Edited May 28, 2017 by Zeo

[bethany81707]

3 minutes ago, Zeo said:

So I'm not entirely sure if this should go in the questions thread or arena thread but I'm going to try here since it's not exactly a question.

I'm having serious trouble getting defense wins, I didn't get a single one last season, I'll give you my units if it helps. But frankly speaking, someone build me a defense team, if you can. Or at least tell me my best team possible.

  Hide contents

Active Units (Lvl 40 or near there): 

*5

Leader: 
Lukas (+SPD/-ATK) (A:Fortress Def/B: Draw Back/Threaten Atk 3/Reciprocal Aid/Ignis) 

Soren (+ATK/-RES) (+1) (35 SPD)
Frederick (+HP, -ATK) (+1, other one probably had a better boon/bane)
Cain (+SPD, -ATK)
Hinoka (+SPD, -ATK)
Y!Tiki (+ATK, -RES)
Takumi (+HP,-DEF) / (+SPD, -DEF) (Still deciding on which to keep)
Faye (+DEF, -SPD)
Kagero (+DEF/-RES) (Reciprocal Aid/Hone Spd)

*4

Tharja (+SPD,-ATK)

Xander

Olivia (+SPD/-RES)

(M)Robin (+DEF,-ATK)

Palla (Neutral)

Catria (+ATK,-RES)

Camilla

Gunter

Jagen

Marth (x3) (+ATK/-DEF, +DEF/-SPD) (Active one is +SPD/-RES)

Cherche (+ATK)

Caeda

Wrys

 

I've got some various characters for use or SI fodder like Hana, Lon'qu etc at *4. I also can do Flier Emblem well enough with Ward, Goad and Fortify on deck. But I haven't been securing any defense wins so any help would be appreciated building a defense team. If you need more info I'll give it to you. Also as you can see I have no significant red. Young Tiki is a dragon and I have no powerful sword unit.

...Then use Olivia anyway. Dancers make most of us uneasy.

Apart from that, you want units like 5* Xander: units that are difficult to deal with if you mess up the optimal strategy. Distant Counter turns most units into this if set up properly- and Vantage excerbates this. Kagero also looks like a solid pick- she won't stop cavalry teams, but she will check infantry.

[DehNutCase]

Spoiler

 

Deathless ended up pretty easy once I got used to the maps (and played a bit more carefully). Turns out, running everyone into a corner makes things really simple because everyone runs drawback and reposition for no reason, meaning Klein can just pick people off one by one.

Brash ended up a bit overkill on Alfonse: He one shots too many people for it to matter, most times, and everyone he can tank a round below half is someone he can tank and trade hits to death with anyway. QR would be better, but being 5* only for level 3 means that I'm probably not going to give it to him until a ways down the line. Renewal might be interesting, but he's perfectly acceptable now that I got used to him, so I might not bother changing from brash.

Edited May 28, 2017 by DehNutCase

[bethany81707]

4 minutes ago, DehNutCase said:

  Hide contents

 

Deathless ended up pretty easy once I got used to the maps (and played a bit more carefully). Turns out, running everyone into a corner makes things really simple because everyone runs drawback and reposition for no reason, meaning Klein can just pick people off one by one.

Brash ended up a bit overkill on Alfonse: He one shots too many people for it to matter, most times, and everyone he can tank a round below half is someone he can tank and trade hits to death with anyway. QR would be better, but being 5* only for level 3 means that I'm probably not going to give it to him until a ways down the line. Renewal might be interesting, but he's perfectly acceptable now that I got used to him, so I might not bother changing from brash.

I guess you could say... a brash assault leads to failure?

[DehNutCase]

Just now, phineas81707 said:

I guess you could say... a brash assault leads to failure?

Brash is still fine, it's just that my team isn't suited for him---brash wants him to run reciprocal and be inside a team that can actually take hits. Everyone on my team dies if a stiff breeze looks at them funny.

[bethany81707]

1 minute ago, DehNutCase said:

Brash is still fine, it's just that my team isn't suited for him---brash wants him to run reciprocal and be inside a team that can actually take hits. Everyone on my team dies if a stiff breeze looks at them funny.

I was more referring to the new 'wait for them' approach.

As for your observations, I'm rather grateful: I was considering Brash after you discussed it, but I don't have any Brash fodder. Renewal, hm?

[DehNutCase]

7 minutes ago, phineas81707 said:

As for your observations, I'm rather grateful: I was considering Brash after you discussed it, but I don't have any Brash fodder. Renewal, hm?

Renewal is basically the 'go-to' B skill if you have nothing else planned. It's very good, but very general, meaning the more niche B-skills beat it since they do what you need them to do. Think of it as a +1 in general, while the specific B-skills are +3 in their niches, and +0 elsewhere. (Ex. Renewal helps against Lance users---since you can heal up damage you take from a lance---but lance breaker helps more. Renewal's better than lance breaker vs. swords, but you won't run lance-breaker if the unit needed to kill swords.)

 

Also: Brash is hard to use properly due to strict hp requirements, it gives Alfonse a huge power-spike below half HP, but a breaker or QR would give similar performance and be safer. I gave him brash because it's a B-skill that has synergy with his stat spread without requiring me to retool his entire kit---QR wants him to run a different A-skill, probably Fury, a breaker skill would prefer that he replace his Prf, etc.

Edited May 28, 2017 by DehNutCase

[bethany81707]

3 minutes ago, DehNutCase said:

Renewal is basically the 'go-to' B skill if you have nothing else planned. It's very good, but very general, meaning the more niche B-skills beat it since they do what you need them to do. Think of it as a +1 in general, while the specific B-skills are +3 in their niches, and +0 elsewhere. (Ex. Renewal helps against Lance users---since you can heal up damage you take from a lance---but lance breaker helps more. Renewal's better than lance breaker vs. swords, but you won't run lance-breaker if the unit needed to kill swords.)

 

Also: Brash is hard to use properly due to strict hp requirements, it gives Alfonse a huge power-spike below half HP, but a breaker or QR would give similar performance and be safer. I gave him brash because it's a B-skill that has synergy with his stat spread without requiring me to retool his entire kit---QR wants him to run a different A-skill, probably Fury, a breaker skill would prefer that he replace his Prf, etc.

Hm... I was considering Swordbreaker, as well. What would you change about his Prf to mesh?

I intend for Alfie to be used offensively on a team with Lilina, Nino and Linde, and defensively with Nino, Linde and Olivia.

[DehNutCase]

11 minutes ago, phineas81707 said:

Hm... I was considering Swordbreaker, as well. What would you change about his Prf to mesh?

I intend for Alfie to be used offensively on a team with Lilina, Nino and Linde, and defensively with Nino, Linde and Olivia.

Strictly speaking, keeping his Prf is fine whether you run a breaker skill or not. (Sure, it's basically only a Silver Sword with +1 MT, rather than an actual legendary weapon while breaker is active, but Silvers are quite good). It's just has 0 synergy, but you don't really need synergy if every skill is good stand-alone. (Lyn's Brash & Prf combo has good synergy, for example, but no one bothers with it because a Brave Weapon alone is basically the same thing.)

That said, Brave-sword is a very good weapon, considering Alfonse's decent Atk and Death Blow A-slot. (Probably better than his Prf in general since +4 buffs are everywhere with skill inheritance, so Prf's buff is only +1 more than that.)

Edit: That is, given infinite resources, I would've given Alfonse Brave-Sword+. That said, he's perfectly functional with his default kit, so I just slapped Brash and Swap on him to fill up his slots and called it a day. budgetbuild.jpg

Edited May 28, 2017 by DehNutCase

[bethany81707]

2 minutes ago, DehNutCase said:

Strictly speaking, keeping his Prf is fine whether you run a breaker skill or not. (Sure, it's basically only a Silver Sword with +1 MT, rather than an actual legendary weapon while breaker is active, but Silvers are quite good). It's just has 0 synergy, but you don't really need synergy if every skill is good stand-alone. (Lyn's Brash & Prf combo has good synergy, for example, but no one bothers with it because a Brave Weapon alone is basically the same thing.)

That said, Brave-sword is a very good weapon, considering Alfonse's decent Atk and Death Blow A-slot. (Probably better than his Prf in general since +4 buffs are everywhere with skill inheritance, so Prf's buff is only +1 more than that.)

Well, Nino has the aura and Lilina has Rally as an emergency button (emergency button when -blades are concerned sounds ridiculous now that I say it aloud).

I'll probably go with Folkvangr/Swordbreaker with intent to switch to Brave Sword. I have an Ogma at 4*, but there are several promotions that need to occur first- such as Lilina and Nino. And if I really want, I can always promote Ogma before Alfie and have a 4* Brave Sword+ as a stop gap (it's not like Alfie's doing anything except being a bonus unit).

[Roflolxp54]

It looks like I may end up staying in tier 17 unless I get a better score since I'm about 1300 rank away from falling out of the top 50 percentile in the tier.

[MrSmokestack]

@Fei Mao Don't give up! Keep trying!

I tried one last time for a deathless run since my score of 4,662 was going to drop out of Tier 17, and I finished my first run that broke the 4,800 point barrier!

Currently sitting at a score of 4,812 with no deaths with a Rank of 1,725 and a Defense score of 576 from 3 defense wins.