Arena Discussion Thread (inc. Assault)

[mampfoid]

Hi everybody,

how do i better my arena score for the first team in arena assault? Until now I never bothered to optimize my arena score, being satisfied with tier 18/19. My arena team was build to be strong, not to get max scores, because i didn't see fun in doing a 7 streak with an armor team for example. With arena assault this became a different matter, because i would have to win only the first match with my new team score goat. 

Relevant for arena score from what i read so far:

1. Equiped skills (more SP cost == better rating)
2. Level (should be 40 anyway)
3. Rarity 
4. Merges (?)
5. Base Stat Total

How important are merges? Are they only important because they rise BST, or are they a scoring factor them-self? I can't afford to aim for merges, my only 5* mergers are Alm and Ephraim by coincidence and because they aren't great SI fodder. 

In this arena week i did score of 4748 (~678 per match, won't suffice for tier 20) with this team:
 

Spoiler

• Azura 5* +0 +ATK -HP Saphire Lance+, Dragon Gaze, Speed +3, Wings of Mercy 3, Hone Res 3 (BST 164)
• Nino 5* +0 +SPD -DEF Gronblade+, Moonbow, Fury 3, Desperation 3, Hone ATK (BST 173)
• Xander 5* +0 Siegfried, Ignis, Fury 3, QR2, Hone Cav (BST 182)
• + Bonus

 

Only by choosing my highest BST units, i could get slightly better scores (680-690) and got always tier 19/20 matches in arena assault:

Spoiler

• Hector 5* +0 +SPD -ATK Armads, Pavis, DC, Vantage 3, Spur ATK 2 (BST 188)
• Xander 5* +0 Siegfried, Ignis, Fury 3, QR2, Hone Cav (BST 182)
• Alm 5* +1 +ATK -DEF, Falcion, Draconic Aura, ATK+3, Renewal 3, Hone ATK 2 (BST 178)
• Ephraim 5* +1 +DEF -SPD Siegmund, Moonbow, Armored Blow 3, Seal Def 3, Hone Speed 3 (BST 175)

(Eldigan (182, full SI), Tobin (178, slight SI) & Y!Tiki (178, no SI) were not considered, because i wanted some variety in color and movement type). 

 

 

Edited August 9, 2017 by mampfoid
Spoiler Tags

[DehNutCase]

16 minutes ago, mampfoid said:

How important are merges? Are they only important because they rise BST, or are they a scoring factor them-self? I can't afford to aim for merges, my only 5* mergers are Alm and Ephraim by coincidence and because they aren't great SI fodder. 

Merges are worth roughly 200 SP worth of skills. (A typical level 3 skill is worth a merge, some are less, like +3 def, some are more, like Distant Counter, Galeforce, Aether, 2 stat 'blow' skills etc.)

Merges increase score by far more than 2 BST---IRRC 10 BST is worth about a merge, in other words, merge score is 'overinflated' by a factor of 5. (You get 1 arena point per merge, which is only 2 BST, but it takes 10 'natural' BST to get 1 arena point.)

A Galeforce is worth a Merge over other maxed out specials---because it's 500 SP rather than 300. Same for Aether. (Mind, Galeforce and Aether also cost a merge worth of feathers considering they're 5* only.)

Edit: Because score is SP cost based, Legendary weapons are worth half a arena score over other choices, because they cost 400 rather than 300 SP.

 

A single merge, incidentally, is worth around 1 arena point. Same for 200 SP (pre-inheritance cost increase) of skills, 10 BST, or 100? (this isn't certain) SP worth of seal skills. (Fort Res seal is 50 SP of skills, so 2 of those would be worth 1 merge. That said, Seals are so minor in terms of SP that it's hard to tell for sure how much they're worth.)

Edited August 9, 2017 by DehNutCase

[XRay]

3 minutes ago, DehNutCase said:

Merges are worth roughly 200 SP worth of skills. (A typical level 3 skill is worth a merge, some are less, like +3 def, some are more, like Distant Counter, Galeforce, Aether, 2 stat 'blow' skills etc.)

Merges increase score by far more than 2 BST---IRRC 10 BST is worth about a merge, in other words, merge score is 'overinflated' by a factor of 5. (You get 1 arena point per merge, which is only 2 BST, or 10 'natural' BST.)

A Galeforce is worth a Merge over other maxed out specials---because it's 500 SP rather than 300. Same for Aether. (Mind, Galeforce and Aether also cost a merge worth of feathers considering they're 5* only.)

Edit: Because score is SP cost based, Legendary weapons are worth half a arena score over other choices, because they cost 400 rather than 300 SP.

A single merge, incidentally, is worth around 1 arena point. Same for 200 SP (pre-inheritance cost increase) of skills, 10 BST, or 100? (this isn't certain) SP worth of seal skills. (Fort Res seal is 50 SP of skills, so 2 of those would be worth 1 merge. That said, Seals are so minor in terms of SP that it's hard to tell for sure how much they're worth.)

That is really good info. I wondered about the Merging versus BST thing as well. Where did you find the information? Or did you take the time to test it out yourself?

[DehNutCase]

7 minutes ago, XRay said:

That is really good info. I wondered about the Merging versus BST thing as well. Where did you find the information? Or did you take the time to test it out yourself?

Reddit. (While I have over 100 Arena swords, I'm too lazy to actually use them to test things like this, as long as there's no obvious inaccuracies I just go 'eh, close enough'.)

https://www.reddit.com/r/FireEmblemHeroes/comments/6dun7r/arena_score_calculations/ Is the source.

Edited August 9, 2017 by DehNutCase

[mampfoid]

8 minutes ago, DehNutCase said:

Merges are worth roughly 200 SP worth of skills. (A typical level 3 skill is worth a merge, some are less, like +3 def, some are more, like Distant Counter, Galeforce, Aether, 2 stat 'blow' skills etc.)

Merges increase score by far more than 2 BST---IRRC 10 BST is worth about a merge, in other words, merge score is 'overinflated' by a factor of 5. (You get 1 arena point per merge, which is only 2 BST, or 10 'natural' BST.)

A Galeforce is worth a Merge over other maxed out specials---because it's 500 SP rather than 300. Same for Aether. (Mind, Galeforce and Aether also cost a merge worth of feathers considering they're 5* only.)

Edit: Because score is SP cost based, Legendary weapons are worth half a arena score over other choices, because they cost 400 rather than 300 SP.

 

A single merge, incidentally, is worth around 1 arena point. Same for 200 SP (pre-inheritance cost increase) of skills, 10 BST, or 100? (this isn't certain) SP worth of seal skills. (Fort Res seal is 50 SP of skills, so 2 of those would be worth 1 merge. That said, Seals are so minor in terms of SP that it's hard to tell for sure how much they're worth.)

Thank you very much for answering, that makes some things more clear: My options for optimizing are very limited, the feather for score point ratio is just too bad. 

Wouldn't be Fury 3 the best A-Skill for arena scoring? Its worth 200 SP and raises BST by 12. 

 

[DehNutCase]

1 minute ago, mampfoid said:

Thank you very much for answering, that makes some things more clear: My options for optimizing are very limited, the feather for score point ratio is just too bad. 

Wouldn't be Fury 3 the best A-Skill for arena scoring? Its worth 200 SP and raises BST by 12. 

Only 'natural' (non-skill) BST matters for Arena Scoring.

[mampfoid]

1 minute ago, DehNutCase said:

Only 'natural' (non-skill) BST matters for Arena Scoring.

Ah, then i should change Xander for Tobin or Y!Tiki (after some SI). 

[Kiran]

Well, today I learned that if I sit my NS!Leo on a def tile, he can survive and KILL Reinhardt with death blow and buffed by hone cav. Having 42 res after res+3 and res +1 seal works wonders.

[XRay]

35 minutes ago, DehNutCase said:

Reddit. (While I have over 100 Arena swords, I'm too lazy to actually use them to test things like this, as long as there's no obvious inaccuracies I just go 'eh, close enough'.)

https://www.reddit.com/r/FireEmblemHeroes/comments/6dun7r/arena_score_calculations/ Is the source.

Aha, thank you! That means I should focus more on merging my team for now, especially Olivia. I already 4*+10 her though, so the only way to increase her score is to promote her to 5*, and that is going to be really expensive.

[mampfoid]

1 minute ago, XRay said:

Aha, thank you! That means I should focus more on merging my team for now, especially Olivia. I already 4*+10 her though, so the only way to increase her score is to promote her to 5*, and that is going to be really expensive.

How many 5* merges would you need to get her to the same arena score of a 4*+10? 

[XRay]

Just now, mampfoid said:

How many 5* merges would you need to get her to the same arena score of a 4*+10? 

I think around 4 or 5 merges to get the same level of BST, so that is my almost my entire stock of Feathers right now. Hopefully, they release a banner featuring her sometime in the future. The article does not go into detail about rarity effects, so I am not sure if being 5* would give a slight boost in itself.

[mampfoid]

1 minute ago, XRay said:

I think around 4 or 5 merges to get the same level of BST, so that is my almost my entire stock of Feathers right now. Hopefully, they release a banner featuring her sometime in the future. The article does not go into detail about rarity effects, so I am not sure if being 5* would give a slight boost in itself.

That's the main reason for me staying tier 18/19: Optimizing is too expensive. I would have to stop all my other projects (Cordelia, dragon team, second pony team, second flier team, B-units), which are more fun in my opinion. 

[Rinco]

7 hours ago, ignis_z said:

I dont think if it will be anough, put your team, its possible i can help you with defenses, I never defended and I have three weeks with a new team and in two of them I have done 10 and 11. Now i have 2.

I'm using right now Summer Corrin (Blarblade, L&D, Lancebreaker), Azura (Wings of Mercy), Ursula (Blarblade+, L&D, Desperation, Hone Cav), Cecilia (Groonblade+, L&D, Escape Route, Hone Cav).

I also have Leo with Blade, Reinhardt, Olwen, Xander, Camus, Ryoma, Ike, Ninian, Summer Robin, Summer Gaius, Summer Tiki, Bride Cordelia as 5* that I could use.

[Ice Dragon]

3 hours ago, DehNutCase said:

Since AA is a mode where, after the first map, you can see enemy units, can't you just prepare a bunch of TA-3 for Wary Effie and the like? (Or Narcian---shame he's a bit too slow to double Effie without a speed buff, at least when he's at a heavy merge disadvantage, despite his breaker.)

I need to get that many units with Triangle Adept first.

Or just finish building some of them, like Raven.

Or just give everyone a Hammer.

[ignis_z]

2 hours ago, Rinco said:

I'm using right now Summer Corrin (Blarblade, L&D, Lancebreaker), Azura (Wings of Mercy), Ursula (Blarblade+, L&D, Desperation, Hone Cav), Cecilia (Groonblade+, L&D, Escape Route, Hone Cav).

I also have Leo with Blade, Reinhardt, Olwen, Xander, Camus, Ryoma, Ike, Ninian, Summer Robin, Summer Gaius, Summer Tiki, Bride Cordelia as 5* that I could use.

Use Reinhardt ( WOM or lancebreaker, for defense prefer WOM with Camus and Xander becuase they are very tought) and Cecilia in middle with HONE. And Xander and Camus (Fury Vantage (better for defense) or Fury QR) with Fortifi. Horse emblem (Cecilia with the book of nino is a KILLER with all buffs +24).  A season hero can replace Camus or Ceci or Xander ( depends of colour). But do you have to see the IVs first of Rein Ceci.  

Ryoma Fury vantage (Ike QR ), Azura WOM fury, Bride and HEro of the season could work too. Your defensive team is not very good

[Vaximillian]

As nobody gives a damn about moving arena assault discussion somewhere else, neither will I.

Did a beginner 7-streak worth 4,522 points, barely within rank 17k at the moment. Might try intermediate or something.

[salinea]

9 minutes ago, Vaximillian said:

As nobody gives a damn about moving arena assault discussion somewhere else, neither will I.

Did a beginner 7-streak worth 4,522 points, barely within rank 17k at the moment. Might try intermediate or something.

... i care ;_;

(some people have used the preparation for arena assault thread instead actually)

[Vaximillian]

12 minutes ago, salinea said:

... i care ;_;

(some people have used the preparation for arena assault thread instead actually)

You’re cool, and Sanaki is cool. I won’t post about arena assault here <3

Anyway, I’m almost tempted to promote my +Atk Robin into five-stardom. Him being −Spd is the only thing that stops me. This and the need for a reserve of feathers to promote Hana for L&D3 for the (hopefully) inevitable Celica.

[salinea]

1 minute ago, Vaximillian said:

You’re cool, and Sanaki is cool. I won’t post about arena assault here <3

Anyway, I’m almost tempted to promote my +Atk Robin into five-stardom. Him being −Spd is the only thing that stops me. This and the need for a reserve of feathers to promote Hana for L&D3 for the (hopefully) inevitable Celica.

Yay :D

ouch -speed Robin.

Good luck for Celica (i keep spamming this banner too, and I just want a bonus unit, I'd be happy with anyone and nobody's coming ;_; -- at least I got a nice +speed Mae 4* so I'm adding her to the list of unit i'm considering promoting to 5*)

[Levin's Scarf]

Finally managed to do an advanced-only deathless run in Arena Assault. It was a very difficult and frustrating journey- there are only so many Reinhardt/Horse Emblem counters, not to mention dancers with WoM making my life miserable. 

Edited August 9, 2017 by Levin's Scarf

[Kiran]

I cheesed the last two battles using items. I probably didn't need to use them but I was so far lucky in battles and didn't want to screw myself over so I played it safe. Dancer's veil and lightning charm are mighty useful. Got a score of 4842, starting team of my usual arena team of Nino+3, Ephraim, Ryoma+1, and Anna. Placed myself at rank 1082. Top 1k is impossible for me.

I found that emblem teams are the easiest to deal with. Fliers? Bring out the archers. Armor? Hammers and Armorslayers are a go. Horse emblem is a bit harder to deal with but I recently built up my NS!Leo who has a boatload of res. Put him on a team with a healer and he can tank magic attacks for days. A perfect counter to those absurd attack stats found in horse mages. Though I worry about the arena season without fort tiles.  

[Kuroi Tsubasa Tenshi]

If you bring a Panic Charm, you can at least totally shut down one blade Emblem team.

[MonkeyCheez3K]

The fact that every single "best player" in Arena Assault is rank 1 tells me that the thresholds for the reward tiers are kinda crap, and, as long as I have no idea how valuable those coins are, will be severly bugged that the first two tiers are this exclusive, even more than regular arena tier 20 (where the difference is merely 1k feathers in rewards, a currency one gets through several manners).

Also, can someone help me? Everytime I see Reinhardt/Horse and/or Dancers I want to punch someone, mostly the respective owner of the team for being such a scrub. It's not because I can't beat them, it's because they make everything so tiresome without effort.

[Kiran]

33 minutes ago, MonkeyCheez3K said:

The fact that every single "best player" in Arena Assault is rank 1 tells me that the thresholds for the reward tiers are kinda crap, and, as long as I have no idea how valuable those coins are, will be severly bugged that the first two tiers are this exclusive, even more than regular arena tier 20 (where the difference is merely 1k feathers in rewards, a currency one gets through several manners).

Also, can someone help me? Everytime I see Reinhardt/Horse and/or Dancers I want to punch someone, mostly the respective owner of the team for being such a scrub. It's not because I can't beat them, it's because they make everything so tiresome without effort.

I know the feeling. I was so happy when my 7th battle had Ryoma without vantage and Azura without WoM. Made things so much easier for me. 

[Johann]

2 hours ago, MonkeyCheez3K said:

The fact that every single "best player" in Arena Assault is rank 1 tells me that the thresholds for the reward tiers are kinda crap, and, as long as I have no idea how valuable those coins are, will be severly bugged that the first two tiers are this exclusive, even more than regular arena tier 20 (where the difference is merely 1k feathers in rewards, a currency one gets through several manners).

I agree. I can't understand why they didn't break players up into tiers like the regular Arena.