DehNutCase Posted December 13, 2017 Share Posted December 13, 2017 2 hours ago, mampfoid said: @Ciarre @DarkLordIvy I met this special Soren in AA today. At first glance he seems to carry the Egg only for the goofy effect, but its +SPD refinement has synergy with Flashing Blade and Watersweep. Soren has the silver tome, so for raw refinement stats he already had an option. (I'd also argue that +spd refinement has negative synergy with Watersweep, seeing how water and windweep prevent all followups. It honestly just looks like a straight up troll build, similar to running Wo Dao+, Distant Counter Ryoma with Vantage and Hardy Bearing.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mampfoid Posted December 13, 2017 Share Posted December 13, 2017 2 minutes ago, DehNutCase said: Soren has the silver tome, so for raw refinement stats he already had an option. (I'd also argue that +spd refinement has negative synergy with Watersweep, seeing how water and windweep prevent all followups. It honestly just looks like a straight up troll build, similar to running Wo Dao+, Distant Counter Ryoma with Vantage and Hardy Bearing.) Now that you mention Rexcalibur, Sorens native tome also has +2 Mt in comparison to Green Egg. The +4 healing effect doesn't justify the change in this case. If its a troll built, then its a cool one nonetheless. Watersweep isn't the best skill, but all sweeps can be annoying on defense teams. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DehNutCase Posted December 13, 2017 Share Posted December 13, 2017 8 minutes ago, mampfoid said: Now that you mention Rexcalibur, Sorens native tome also has +2 Mt in comparison to Green Egg. The +4 healing effect doesn't justify the change in this case. If its a troll built, then its a cool one nonetheless. Watersweep isn't the best skill, but all sweeps can be annoying on defense teams. Main problem is the Swift Blade & Moonbow combo. Or rather, the Swift Blade & Moonbow & Sweep combo. Soren can't double, so Moonbow can't trigger. If he's smacked on enemy phase, he counters with a Moonbow, but he would've countered with that regardless of whether or not he had swift blade. (Because you get +1 from being smacked.) On the other hand, if you get to smack twice on player phase... Why the hell are you not just running Death Blow 3? That's twelve damage in 2 hits, you need to be smacking someone with forty Res for Swift Blade to be worth it. And I honestly wouldn't know about sweeps being annoying on defense teams---my teams drown in mobility because of my personal preferences---but watersweep Soren just flat out doesn't seem threatening. Going egg means you don't get the +20 or whatever Atk from -blade, add that to the fact that you can't double and it means you aren't ORKOing anything. A unit that can't kill on his unit-turn is basically forcing the defense team into a 3v4, which tends to be fairly trivial. (I mean, it might be kind of annoying to dragon emblem, seeing how their mobility is comparable to armor emblem, but one of the main draws of dragon emblem is that you can just BST your way out of seeing mages at all, since mages give less arena score.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ice Dragon Posted December 13, 2017 Share Posted December 13, 2017 23 minutes ago, DehNutCase said: Going egg means you don't get the +20 or whatever Atk from -blade Unless the team is running complementary dual Rallies, the only turn that's actually applicable on is the first enemy phase and second player phase. 25 minutes ago, DehNutCase said: but one of the main draws of dragon emblem is that you can just BST your way out of seeing mages at all, since mages give less arena score. No longer true due to blessings. A team with a single infantry staff user can get up to 746 points. Also, for only about a week a few months ago (before the CYL banner), 鏡mochi ran Celica on a team worth 744 points. Furthermore, unless your Dragon Emblem team is fully merged, you are not pulling out of the Anything Goes pack. The 730-740 range where my fully merged dragon team with combat-oriented builds (as opposed to score-oriented) sits contains pretty much everything in the game. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DehNutCase Posted December 13, 2017 Share Posted December 13, 2017 (edited) 7 minutes ago, Ice Dragon said: Also, for only about a week a few months ago (before the CYL banner), 鏡mochi ran Celica on a team worth 744 points. Celica has a Prf, though. (And is it a team full of mages or just Celica? Because 1 mage in a team of melees is a lot easier to deal with than a mage in a team of mages, since melees have a harder time getting revenge kills if you manage to kill Celica on player phase.) 7 minutes ago, Ice Dragon said: No longer true due to blessings. A team with a single infantry staff user can get up to 746 points. Is it just the one ranged unit, or is it Fjorm + 3 ranged? Since 3 melees +1 range just means the ranged get smacked to death on player phase, and the murderer just gets repositioned away to safety. 7 minutes ago, Ice Dragon said: Furthermore, unless your Dragon Emblem team is fully merged, you are not pulling out of the Anything Goes pack. The 730-740 range where my fully merged dragon team with combat-oriented builds (as opposed to score-oriented) sits contains pretty much everything in the game. I mean, if your dragon team isn't merged up enough to pull out of the anything goes place, using a dragon team is just a personal preference rather than a strategic choice. Since you can get into the same score range with a team of say, cavalry mages that are highly merged if you felt like that. Edit: Also, hi. (RL killing my free time right now, so we probably won't be getting into page long arguments. Which I'm sure everyone else appreciates, haha.) Edited December 13, 2017 by DehNutCase Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ice Dragon Posted December 13, 2017 Share Posted December 13, 2017 8 minutes ago, DehNutCase said: Celica has a Prf, though. (And is it a team full of mages or just Celica? Because 1 mage in a team of melees is a lot easier to deal with than a mage in a team of mages, since melees have a harder time getting revenge kills if you manage to kill Celica on player phase.) 8 minutes ago, DehNutCase said: Is it just the one ranged unit, or is it Fjorm + 3 ranged? You missed the entire point, which is that you can't argue that an advantage of a particular team composition is that you no longer fight x unit type anymore unless the team is actually worth 748 points, which it isn't. 19 minutes ago, DehNutCase said: Since 3 melees +1 range just means the ranged get smacked to death on player phase, and the murderer just gets repositioned away to safety. Let's see your player-phase team actually reach that score range first to actually fight said Mist. 15 minutes ago, DehNutCase said: Edit: Also, hi. (RL killing my free time right now, so we probably won't be getting into page long arguments. Which I'm sure everyone else appreciates, haha.) I'm pretty sure our arguments typically last for something like 12-24 hours. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DehNutCase Posted December 13, 2017 Share Posted December 13, 2017 5 minutes ago, Ice Dragon said: You missed the entire point, which is that you can't argue that an advantage of a particular team composition is that you no longer fight x unit type anymore unless the team is actually worth 748 points, which it isn't. Let's see your player-phase team actually reach that score range first to actually fight said Mist. Uh, don't dragons OHKO mist? She has 59 physical bulk, which isn't that hard. I'm not saying that it's hard for player phase teams to kill mist, I'm talking about a dragon team right now, which I'm assuming is typical enemy phase stuff with lightning breath and whatever. And, even though Mist is one of the hardest enemies for them to face, being a ranged unit they can't counter attack, they can still deal with her because they can either---never see her at all---or see her in such low quantities that the effect isn't as large. Dragon Team vs. 1 Mist is smack that mist to death and go back to normal play. Dragon Team vs. 4 Mists is just crying---maybe, depending on how good the Mist is at smacking dragons to death on enemy phase---but you should be able to get out of that score range, at least. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ice Dragon Posted December 13, 2017 Share Posted December 13, 2017 (edited) 9 minutes ago, DehNutCase said: Uh, don't dragons OHKO mist? She has 59 physical bulk, which isn't that hard. +10 +Atk Nowi with Flametongue+ [Atk] has 59 Atk without buffs or supports. And Mist has 67 physical bulk because +10 merge. So yes, it is that hard. 9 minutes ago, DehNutCase said: I'm not saying that it's hard for player phase teams to kill mist, I'm talking about a dragon team right now, which I'm assuming is typical enemy phase stuff with lightning breath and whatever. Dazzling Staff refine is a middle finger to enemy-phase teams. 9 minutes ago, DehNutCase said: And, even though Mist is one of the hardest enemies for them to face, being a ranged unit they can't counter attack, Close Counter because Arena scoring. 9 minutes ago, DehNutCase said: Dragon Team vs. 1 Mist is smack that mist to death and go back to normal play. Good luck when you're hit with Gravity+, which is what she was running on that team. Edited December 13, 2017 by Ice Dragon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DehNutCase Posted December 13, 2017 Share Posted December 13, 2017 2 minutes ago, Ice Dragon said: Close Counter because Arena scoring. I meant a ranged unit that the dragon team can't counter attack themselves, due to sweep/dazzling effect, not the fact that they're ranged units that can't counter-attack dragons. As in, they're hard to deal with because dragons can't just counter-kill them like other stuff, hence why they have to OHKO on player phase---otherwise everyone gets gets debuffed anyway. 3 minutes ago, Ice Dragon said: +10 +Atk Nowi with Flametongue+ [Atk] has 59 Atk without buffs or supports. And Mist has 67 physical bulk because +10 merge. So yes, it is that hard. Fair, although I think L&D A!Tiki could reasonably secure ORKOs---because dragon team has a fairly consistent panic ploy on ranged units, who don't get 5 hp from weapon forges, meaning we'll have buff and A-slot advantage to secure the double. Getting gravity'd sucks, but a proper reposition chain can get A!Tiki out still---assuming the enemy team only has the 1 ranged, running into multiple Jakobs or Henrys would suck. Actually, now that I think about it. Jakob kind of ruins the stack merges until our problems are gone plan. : / He can run firesweep bow even in the 750 tier, I'd assume. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bethany81707 Posted December 13, 2017 Share Posted December 13, 2017 2 minutes ago, DehNutCase said: Fair, although I think L&D A!Tiki could reasonably secure ORKOs---because dragon team has a fairly consistent panic ploy on ranged units, who don't get 5 hp from weapon forges, meaning we'll have buff and A-slot advantage to secure the double. Distant Counter. I mean, the Nowi is running Flametongue. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ice Dragon Posted December 13, 2017 Share Posted December 13, 2017 4 minutes ago, DehNutCase said: Fair, although I think L&D A!Tiki could reasonably secure ORKOs---because dragon team has a fairly consistent panic ploy on ranged units, who don't get 5 hp from weapon forges, meaning we'll have buff and A-slot advantage to secure the double. Getting gravity'd sucks, but a proper reposition chain can get A!Tiki out still---assuming the enemy team only has the 1 ranged, running into multiple Jakobs or Henrys would suck. Awakening Tiki: 167 stat total. Life and Death: 200 SP. Reposition: 150 SP. +10 Awakening Tiki [+Atk] (Flametongue+ [Atk], Life and Death 3): 65/35 offenses with blessing. Does not double or one-hit kill Mist (38 Spd with +Spd and blessing, 70 physical bulk with blessing) without +5 Atk from buffs +10 Awakening Tiki [+Spd] (Flametongue+ [Spd], Life and Death 3): 60/41 offenses with blessing. Does not double or one-hit kill Mist without +2 Spd from buffs. Uh huh. Good luck with that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vaximillian Posted December 13, 2017 Share Posted December 13, 2017 (edited) Feels good to be get set for the rest of the week: Changed my mostly-horse defence team to Sharena, Arvis, Ninian, and axe Ike for the rest of the week. Horses (and Fjorm) did their job amazingly. Edited December 13, 2017 by Vaximillian Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Poimagic Posted December 13, 2017 Share Posted December 13, 2017 8 hours ago, mampfoid said: Which team do you run? If you can separate Reinhardt and Lyn from their team mates, it's doable. Lyn always goes after my Cordelia (she has lower DEF than Cherche), so she is pretty predictable. Ayra dies to most magic (and to Cordelia, sometimes to BH!Roy). It's getting really strange, n I have 10 wins after one day... I'm beginning to doubt the sense of a dedicated defense team. My team is Julia +1, Ike, Fjorm +1, and Black Knight. Lyn goes after Julia and Rienhardt goes after Ike. The problem is that Lyn one shots Ike and Julia, making dealing with her a problem, especially if she is brave bow. Plus, getting my teammates into the range of attacking her is tough because both Fjorm and Ike have draw back due to lack of Repo fodder. I am thinking of replacing Julia with a Gronnraven Camilla, but a) I'm worried that Julia's merge and her personal weapon are the reason why my score can get that high, and b) Julia weakened Ayra so that either Ike or Fjorm could kill Ayra. S!Camilla has both weaker attack than Julia, but also Triangle Adept like Julia. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mampfoid Posted December 13, 2017 Share Posted December 13, 2017 47 minutes ago, Vaximillian said: Feels good to be get set for the rest of the week: Changed my mostly-horse defence team to Sharena, Arvis, Ninian, and axe Ike for the rest of the week. Horses (and Fjorm) did their job amazingly. Yeah, usually I try to get arena and AA done early as well, but it took me until today to finish AA (score 4968). 20 minutes ago, Poimagic said: My team is Julia +1, Ike, Fjorm +1, and Black Knight. Lyn goes after Julia and Rienhardt goes after Ike. The problem is that Lyn one shots Ike and Julia, making dealing with her a problem, especially if she is brave bow. Plus, getting my teammates into the range of attacking her is tough because both Fjorm and Ike have draw back due to lack of Repo fodder. I am thinking of replacing Julia with a Gronnraven Camilla, but a) I'm worried that Julia's merge and her personal weapon are the reason why my score can get that high, and b) Julia weakened Ayra so that either Ike or Fjorm could kill Ayra. S!Camilla has both weaker attack than Julia, but also Triangle Adept like Julia. Ok, I thought you would run your flier emblem. 3 infantry, 1 armor and three of them melee makes it hard to win against Lyn and Reinhardt on many maps. Do you have other merged units? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarkLordIvy Posted December 13, 2017 Share Posted December 13, 2017 10 hours ago, mampfoid said: @Ciarre @DarkLordIvy I met this special Soren in AA today. At first glance he seems to carry the Egg only for the goofy effect, but its +SPD refinement has synergy with Flashing Blade and Watersweep. Reveal hidden contents Perhaps even @Vaximillian approves this usage of Bunnilla. Ha! I love it, wish I had gotten a Bunnilla so I could have given Soren a meme build. I like the meme builds. Watersweep is definitely the least practical thing I'd say. Windsweep would be better as far as a sweep skill on Soren. Thanks for that IS. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarkLordIvy Posted December 13, 2017 Share Posted December 13, 2017 10 hours ago, mampfoid said: @Ciarre @DarkLordIvy I met this special Soren in AA today. At first glance he seems to carry the Egg only for the goofy effect, but its +SPD refinement has synergy with Flashing Blade and Watersweep. Reveal hidden contents Perhaps even @Vaximillian approves this usage of Bunnilla. Ha! I love it, wish I had gotten a Bunnilla so I could have given Soren a meme build. I like the meme builds. Watersweep is definitely the least practical thing I'd say. Windsweep would be better as far as a sweep skill on Soren. Thanks for that IS. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kuroi Tsubasa Tenshi Posted December 13, 2017 Share Posted December 13, 2017 32 minutes ago, DarkLordIvy said: Ha! I love it, wish I had gotten a Bunnilla so I could have given Soren a meme build. I like the meme builds. Watersweep is definitely the least practical thing I'd say. Windsweep would be better as far as a sweep skill on Soren. Thanks for that IS. It was all Soren's tactical genius. He foresaw the rise of forged Lightning Breath+ and planned accordingly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JSND Alter Dragon Boner Posted December 13, 2017 Share Posted December 13, 2017 (edited) @GuiltyLove @MrSmokestack Ask and you shall receive THE LEGEND THE GREATEST OF LYCIA THE GOAT PHYSICALLY DEFENSIVE ELIWOOD Legends said @MrSmokestack apparently cringed when he heard "physically defensive" Eliwood also after using her a bit i think Fjorn's great. Ice Mirror allows her to reliably take neutral color mage, and best off all Spur attack seal and built in Drive Attack is an IMMACULATE combo. She lives up her role as a discount Camus Ice Mirror is what Shield Pulse supported skill should be Edited December 13, 2017 by JSND Alter Dragon Boner Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrSmokestack Posted December 13, 2017 Share Posted December 13, 2017 36 minutes ago, JSND Alter Dragon Boner said: THE LEGEND THE GREATEST OF LYCIA THE GOAT PHYSICALLY DEFENSIVE ELIWOOD What world do we live in 36 minutes ago, JSND Alter Dragon Boner said: Legends said @MrSmokestack apparently cringed when he heard "physically defensive" Eliwood Legends are also prone to significant amounts of embellishment, if I may add. 36 minutes ago, JSND Alter Dragon Boner said: also after using her a bit i think Fjorn's great. Ice Mirror allows her to reliably take neutral color mage, and best off all Spur attack seal and built in Drive Attack is an IMMACULATE combo. She lives up her role as a discount Camus Ice Mirror is what Shield Pulse supported skill should be I was a bit worried about taking a second lance user, but after using her and seeing how ridiculous her bulk is, I really want to make her a permanent member of my arena team. Nino + Panic Ploy Ephraim + Fjorm is a great core with a red bonus unit to round it out. I'm curious to see how the rotations will handle legendary heroes from now on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hilda Posted December 13, 2017 Share Posted December 13, 2017 10 hours ago, Ice Dragon said: Dazzling Staff refine is a middle finger to enemy-phase teams. ummm the same goes for all Firesweep weapons and Lyns B-Slot (for Distant Counter weapons). And those skills/weapon are supported by units that can reach 60+ attack and damaging specials while staff users have like a limited A-Slot ability and no damaging specials oO. How are staff users a greater fuck you to enemy phase teams then firesweep weapons and BLyns B-Slot? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ice Dragon Posted December 13, 2017 Share Posted December 13, 2017 19 minutes ago, Hilda said: How are staff users a greater fuck you to enemy phase teams then firesweep weapons and BLyns B-Slot? I never said they were? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Poimagic Posted December 13, 2017 Share Posted December 13, 2017 7 hours ago, mampfoid said: Yeah, usually I try to get arena and AA done early as well, but it took me until today to finish AA (score 4968). Ok, I thought you would run your flier emblem. 3 infantry, 1 armor and three of them melee makes it hard to win against Lyn and Reinhardt on many maps. Do you have other merged units? My only other merges units are a plus 3 Cherche, a +1 Roderick, and a +1 Hinoka. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clogon Posted December 14, 2017 Share Posted December 14, 2017 15 hours ago, bethany81707 said: ...My memory might be a little foggy, but was Rhajat not released before the other three? Oh you are right! Then it is probably because her banner doesn't last 2 weeks? Can't say for sure. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GinRei Posted December 14, 2017 Share Posted December 14, 2017 Got my "real" or "full point" defense win, so decided to put up my Lyn Emblem team as my defense team for the week after finally getting the upgrade for sword Lyn. If anyone ends up facing one, I'd be interested in if it's my team or if someone else is crazy enough to use a Lyn Emblem defense team. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JSND Alter Dragon Boner Posted December 14, 2017 Share Posted December 14, 2017 15 minutes ago, Clogon said: Oh you are right! Then it is probably because her banner doesn't last 2 weeks? Can't say for sure. The way they decide bonus period for weird banner unit is just undefined lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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