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Arena Discussion Thread (inc. Assault)


pianime94
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Nowi with her forged breath, Quick Riposte (even just rank 2) and the Distant Def 3 Seal can typically deal quite handily with Lyn. The only variety this doesn't work against is Firesweep, for obvious reasons. Rein and Lyn shouldn't really be piling onto her with proper movement. Definitely look at that AI guide linked above, because the AI has huge deficiencies in using refreshers that can be abused.

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6 hours ago, Nanima said:

Soren is my designated Reinhardt killer but he generally doesn't survive Brave!Lyn. The only units I have that might be able to counterkill both of them are Fjorm and Nowi, and the latter isn't always a safe bet. I could build my Christmas Lissa for it maybe, but I never got a Hector so I can't give her Distant Counter (yes I know he is on the current banner, but I need my orbs for next week. Pulling just for utility is a luxury for a F2P like me).

@Humanoid Thanks, this may actually help.

Soren is defnitly not a BLyn check i agree with you on that. Spring Camilla is excellent at checking both (if you have her) and the skillset + seals needed for this isnt very expensiv to get. Altough she cant counter Firesweep bow but noone can, but she is an excellent check for both.

Boey is an excellent check for both BLyn and Reinhardt.

Saizo can check Lyn if properly built (but not Reinhardt)

Robin F is an excellent check for both if you give her a Raven-tome.

Robin M is now an excellent check for both if he runs the new Blarsperpent + distant def and distant def seal.

There are also seasonal armored units like Jakob, Henry, Tharja and Lyn that can check them (especially Lyn) quite good.

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6 hours ago, Nanima said:

Soren is my designated Reinhardt killer but he generally doesn't survive Brave!Lyn. The only units I have that might be able to counterkill both of them are Fjorm and Nowi, and the latter isn't always a safe bet. I could build my Christmas Lissa for it maybe, but I never got a Hector so I can't give her Distant Counter (yes I know he is on the current banner, but I need my orbs for next week. Pulling just for utility is a luxury for a F2P like me).

@Humanoid Thanks, this may actually help.

Soren is defnitly not a BLyn check i agree with you on that. Spring Camilla is excellent at checking both (if you have her) and the skillset + seals needed for this isnt very expensiv to get. Altough she cant counter Firesweep bow but noone can, but she is an excellent check for both.

Boey is an excellent check for both BLyn and Reinhardt.

Saizo can check Lyn if properly built (but not Reinhardt)

Robin F is an excellent check for both if you give her a Raven-tome.

Robin M is now an excellent check for both if he runs the new Blarsperpent + distant def and distant def seal.

There are also seasonal armored units like Jakob, Henry, Tharja and Lyn that can check them (especially Lyn) quite good.

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1 hour ago, Hilda said:

Soren is defnitly not a BLyn check i agree with you on that. Spring Camilla is excellent at checking both (if you have her) and the skillset + seals needed for this isnt very expensiv to get. Altough she cant counter Firesweep bow but noone can, but she is an excellent check for both.

Boey is an excellent check for both BLyn and Reinhardt.

Saizo can check Lyn if properly built (but not Reinhardt)

Robin F is an excellent check for both if you give her a Raven-tome.

Robin M is now an excellent check for both if he runs the new Blarsperpent + distant def and distant def seal.

There are also seasonal armored units like Jakob, Henry, Tharja and Lyn that can check them (especially Lyn) quite good.

Out of these, only F!Robin and Halloween Henry are options for me. I guess I'll see what I can do with them. Thanks for the help.

Edited by Nanima
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Got a score of 4,926 which should be more or less safe enough to get back into T20.

Hinoka/Matthew/Fjorm/Chrom.

Hinoka is basically window dressing. Matthew is so unbelievably good. Fjorm is clutch if I need to deal with blue ranged or raven units and Chrom destroys dragons. Had some close calls with ranged units (mostly Nino) but made it out unscathed. Biggest issue was those horse teams that caught me by surprise. Then Matthew showed how much of a boss he was and tanked Reinhardt on a DEF tile with the buffs in play and proceeded to bomb both him and Eldigan, which is after he baited and killed a goaded BH!Lyn while Fjorm soloed a Gronnblade Cecillia while on a DEF tile.

Matthew 2 gud. Chrom did a fantastic job of basically solo'ing dragon teams if they showed up though. I like Eirika but Chrom is simply too good of a unit in the current meta. If the blues don't have Swordbreaker or aren't fast enough to double him, he simply detonates all dragons.

Edited by Zeo
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@Nanima - A little late to he convo, but here are some characters I find that are good counters for both Reinhardt and Lyn.

  • Merric - He's been my check from day one. With Fury, Bowbreaker, and the ATK+3 seal, a neutral Merric can KO a neutral Brave Lyn without buffs and take relatively little damage in return. A +ATK Merric doesn't need the seal which leaves him open to run Deflect Magic. Something to note is that he can't bait BOTH. He can bait one and usually finish off the other on player phase. But depending on defense tiles, buffs, debuffs, etc, he may survive both. He's also a good candidate for running Panic Ploy which destroys a lot of horse teams.
  • Cecilia - Native user of Gronnraven. Just let her run TA and Bowbreaker. Basically shrugs off most colorless and blue magic users if they don't have Cancel Affinity. I like her because she's relatively low investment. For a while, I absolutely HAD to have her on my Arena teams.
  • Fae - I've actually never really used her. Not a favorite dragon, but I've heard good things about her as a Reinhardt counter. Reinhardt needs a LOT of power (like +10 merge every buff in the book) to even scratch a neutral TA3 Fae.  She'd require more investment to counter Brave Lyn too, but it could work. Something like Lightning Breath+ (DEF refine), TA3, Quick Riposte, and maybe Distant DEF seal gives her pretty good survivability. 
  • Titania - Okay...she doesn't really work as a Brave Lyn counter or even a counter in general since she can't well...counter, but I thought I'd mention her because sometimes I find it's a useful strategy to bait enemies. I started running my Titania with DC, but even when she can't counter, she takes little to no damage from the guy. Depending on the layout of the map, you may be able to lure Rein away from the group to make him less of a threat, and she'll have no trouble destroying him on player phase. Her Emerald axe does most of the work for her, so her build can be flexible. Her DEF is...bad, so she shouldn't tank hits from Lyn, but one can never have too many Rein counters, right?

Granted, you can't run all of these guys on the same team, but I thought you might like to know there are a lot of options available to you. And maybe some of these guys could be useful in AA. I will say that some maps are super cancerous. That double bridge map with horse emblem + a dancer is one of my LEAST favorites. It always has been. 

 

Speaking of AA, I tried again for a deathless run and ended up losing my Caeda on the last map....because of dancers plus horses. RIP. That was my own fault though. I should have pulled Caeda back a bit more. One death isn't bad, but I can do better. I also ended up facing the defense team of the person who gave me a defense win. XD They have a +9 DC Myrrh as their lead with a highly merged dragon emblem team behind them. I feel a sense of accomplishment getting a win from this guy. (Also beat the team without much trouble.) I feel like my defense win was likely one out of rage and/or pity. XD

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On 3/13/2018 at 9:51 PM, Chrom-ulent said:

Huh. Already three defense wins, one against a +4 Zephiel lead. I guess seeing "Chrom-ulent", leading with Chrom, tier 20, is luring players.

Won't be staying, obviously. Ain't going to be turning in 5000+ offense runs any time soon with this lack of merges.

I think I saw you during my perfunctory daily AA run. I wanted to see someone running Chrom Emblem, and was kinda disappointed when it was just a regular team fronted by Chrom.

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After 17 crests I finally got a deathless run with a score of 4929. It's super low because the game wanted to give me nothing but 700-702 matches with only one or two being at 708 but I hope it'll be enough to go back into tier 20.

Arena Assault was easier, I finished it first try with a score of 4956 which is comfortable enough for top 10k. 

No defense wins though, Flier Emblem isn't working so I'm going to play with my teams to see which one works the best.

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1 hour ago, Alexmender said:

No defense wins though

Defence wins are pure coin toss. I already got one yesterday with my arena offence team:
Screenshot_20180314-170245.jpg

Meanwhile, my ongoing arena run isn’t going well—three deaths already—but who cares, it’s the downtime week.

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Even though I have to drag Anna along this week, I still managed to get 5064 points which will probably be enough to stay another week in T20. It sucks that I have to spend 10 crests every time just to get more than 720 points, but at least fighting in Arena is incredibly easy with my dragons. AA on the other hand got a lot harder or rather annoying thanks to them.

How safe am I with a 5060+ score in T20 btw? I could give my A!Tiki another merge to +9 and Nowi +5 still needs QR3 and Aether, but I would really like to spend my feathers on some other units...

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Got a huge scare on the final map but managed to survive and eke out a score of 4920. It will have to be enough because I'm dropping down to intermediate for the next couple of weeks while TT is on.

Breakdown was 3x704 and 4x702, not common when the floor observed is 696. Six crests probably sounds like chickenfeed to more serious players but it's probably the most I've spent fishing.

Edited by Humanoid
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9 hours ago, Astellius said:

I think I saw you during my perfunctory daily AA run. I wanted to see someone running Chrom Emblem, and was kinda disappointed when it was just a regular team fronted by Chrom.

Sorry to disappoint. I kinda wasn't around for the seasonals and I only pulled two M!Morgans from the red on this banner. I could start whaling on it but the end result may be pitybreakers or a +10 M!Morgan.

Switching lead unit to V!Lyn.

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Wow, getting a deathless run with my usual Reinhardt, Xander, Dancer, Bonus duo was hairier than I thought, especially considering Xander is a bonus this week.

My problem was, my main issue with my runs last week was Bow Lyn, so I decided to use Lyon as my fourth unit. Inigo is maxed out so I'm using Shigure as my dancer until he caps.

Enter the sudden rush of Armour Lyns and defence tiles. I had everyone on next to no health with two of them, just trying to murder her. Glad that's out the way. Will probably pick Count Henry or someone like that for next week's lot.

Now I'm trying a deathless three armour and Morgan run, in the hopes of netting more points. So far, so good, though a Practically Naked Tharja gave me a scare. Don't know what she was eating, but even The Winter Robin struggled with her. Funnily enough, Zelgius was the one who destroyed her.

 

Got my deathless AA run pretty early on this time round. It was pretty hairy again for a time, but I'm happy to have it :)

Of course, I'm not in the big league tiers. I'm still happily bouncing between 18 and 19, and ranks of 10,000 and below. I do wish AA had more of a tiered system, though.

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10 hours ago, Chrom-ulent said:

Sorry to disappoint. I kinda wasn't around for the seasonals and I only pulled two M!Morgans from the red on this banner. I could start whaling on it but the end result may be pitybreakers or a +10 M!Morgan.

Switching lead unit to V!Lyn.

Lol, no worries! I do enjoy seeing SF people in the Arena (even if this knowledge comes about after the fact, as happened here!)!

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Hmm, I guess I could nab some more charity defense wins if my name ingame was the same as my name here, huh?

Fortunately I already managed to get one, and it happened within a couple hours of changing up from a Chrom-led horse team to an infantry team (plus Hinoka). Not that the infantry team was any cheaper than the horse one, mind you, as it has a dancer.

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On 3/14/2018 at 7:20 AM, Nanima said:

That's pretty impressive cosidering it took me several attempts in advanced just to reach 19. Maybe I am making my own life to difficult.

Just had my third attempt at a perfect arena score ruined in the last fight by dancer-fueled Brave!Lyn. Maybe I just shouldn't accept battles with a horse unit or dancer in front anymore. But still, that doesn't protect from it and would exclude me from like 90% of battles at this point.

I should note that this would be the first that I've ever reached this high

Also, apparently it was short lived. I looked back at it now to see my rank dropping below range. Good thing I only play for the offense rewards

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6 hours ago, Vaximillian said:

I wish the mode was actually enjoyable.

I actually do enjoy it,personally. I just wish I could play it more than once and still get HM, etc. Maybe at the cost of crests or something. That's my only gripe with it. That and I wish it had tiers.

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6 hours ago, Vaximillian said:

I wish the mode was actually enjoyable.

AA is fun. I just wish I had a reason to try on more than one run per week. I just do one 7 battle run per day against 1 enemy. And then on the last day of the week, I put in my highest scoring team and do it a 2nd time "for real". The first day this week, I faced the same exact opponent in all 7 battles. I had to do a 4v1 against their stupid Fae in all 7 battles.

The rewards are great, but it needs a little change to spice it up.

 

I still think that both the Arena and AA need a "banned unit list" every season. The 2 most used units of each movement type from the previous season.

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7 hours ago, Hawk King said:

I still think that both the Arena and AA need a "banned unit list" every season. The 2 most used units of each movement type from the previous season.

The most used units in what score range? Everyone? Would Alfonse, Sharena, Anna, and Fjorm (and certain Grand Hero Battle characters) end up banned every other week? Would it also ban those units from defense teams?

Edited by Ice Dragon
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2 hours ago, Ice Dragon said:

The most used units in what score range? Everyone? Would Alfonse, Sharena, Anna, and Fjorm (and certain Grand Hero Battle characters) end up banned every other week? Would it also ban those units from defense teams?

The score ranges would definitely complicate things. If they could do it for each Rank that would probably be best, but I could see that as being really hard to implement. They have enough data that they could come up with a rotation similar to the bonus units list.  Yes, banning them from Defense teams is the major focus here so that people don't have to face the same enemies over and over again.

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12 minutes ago, Hawk King said:

Yes, banning them from Defense teams is the major focus here so that people don't have to face the same enemies over and over again.

Forcing players to change their defense teams every week is just causing unnecessary trouble, though. In the absolute best case scenario where

  • All characters are equally used except for the 8 that will get banned in the following week.
  • The 8 that will get banned in the following week are tied with each other in usage and broke the 228-way tie by 1 unit instance.
  • Any team containing at least 1 character from the 8 contains only characters that will be banned in the following week.

already a full 3.5% of players will be forced to change their teams. In the case where the last requirement is relaxed to "any team containing at least 1 character from the 8 contains exactly 2 characters that will be banned in the following week", 7% (1 in 14) of players will be forced to change their teams. Realistically speaking, you're likely to see closer to 20-50% of players being forced to change.

If it removed all defense teams with banned units from the matchmaking list, you could very easily (especially at the very top where the pool of units is necessarily far smaller than elsewhere) end up with score ranges that are completely devoid of valid opponents at the start of each week.

And for the sake of being reasonable, I am assuming that bonus characters and legendary characters are immune from banning.

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6 minutes ago, Ice Dragon said:

Forcing players to change their defense teams every week is just causing unnecessary trouble, though. In the absolute best case scenario where

  • All characters are equally used except for the 8 that will get banned in the following week.
  • The 8 that will get banned in the following week are tied with each other in usage and broke the 228-way tie by 1 unit instance.
  • Any team containing at least 1 character from the 8 contains only characters that will be banned in the following week.

already a full 3.5% of players will be forced to change their teams. In the case where the last requirement is relaxed to "any team containing at least 1 character from the 8 contains exactly 2 characters that will be banned in the following week", 7% (1 in 14) of players will be forced to change their teams. Realistically speaking, you're likely to see closer to 20-50% of players being forced to change.

Umm, 95-100% of people already have to change their teams every week because of the bonus hero. Forcing them to change their team up is kinda the goal here. There are people, myself included, that have a 3 unit core and have been running that same core for months straight while only changing the one bonus unit. It would also force people to not rely on their Reinhardts, Brave Lyns, and their Dragon and Armor ward-stacking teams, and their Blade tome emblem-buff teams.

Instead of the most used units, a designed regularly rotating list, like the current bonus heroes list would work best.

19 minutes ago, Ice Dragon said:

If it removed all defense teams with banned units from the matchmaking list, you could very easily (especially at the very top where the pool of units is necessarily far smaller than elsewhere) end up with score ranges that are completely devoid of valid opponents at the start of each week.

Instead of a flat out ban, a score reduction would eliminate any of these issues. The teams could still show up but those players would get a score of 0 for any wins they got.

22 minutes ago, Ice Dragon said:

And for the sake of being reasonable, I am assuming that bonus characters and legendary characters are immune from banning.

With a set list that rotates regularly, this would never be an issue.

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28 minutes ago, Hawk King said:

Umm, 95-100% of people already have to change their teams every week because of the bonus hero.

Every other week. I can go 19-20 days without having to deal with putting together a new team if I really don't want to.

 

34 minutes ago, Hawk King said:

Instead of the most used units, a designed regularly rotating list, like the current bonus heroes list would work best.

Oh no I won't be able to use Robin this week what ever will I do.

On the flip side, which sad intern are you giving the job of coming up with a new list each week that is both relevant and not punishing to players?

 

29 minutes ago, Hawk King said:

Instead of a flat out ban, a score reduction would eliminate any of these issues. The teams could still show up but those players would get a score of 0 for any wins they got.

I get the feeling that the people at the top probably don't give a damn about it.

Those who already switch around their teams to get a 451+ win with a bonus unit and then switch back to their usual team are already doing that, and those who don't bother at all probably don't care too much about losing feathers equivalent to sending home 3 units.

 

And then there are the people who already finagle with their team often and probably wouldn't mind putting their zero-score team back up after they get their first win for the week.

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11 hours ago, Hawk King said:

AA is fun. I just wish I had a reason to try on more than one run per week. I just do one 7 battle run per day against 1 enemy. And then on the last day of the week, I put in my highest scoring team and do it a 2nd time "for real". The first day this week, I faced the same exact opponent in all 7 battles. I had to do a 4v1 against their stupid Fae in all 7 battles.

The rewards are great, but it needs a little change to spice it up.

 

I still think that both the Arena and AA need a "banned unit list" every season. The 2 most used units of each movement type from the previous season.

I think AA and Arena need a tweak, not by banning units, but by dampering BST points. It kinda takes out the fun of the mode when 80% of your oponnents are Armored units, with the same cookie cutter skill and setups. While the last Arena point update gives more variety (due to lower points) its still shit kinda. I also dont think that people that like playing ranged units and invest in them should be penalized in Arena / AA because their favourite units run lower BST. Merges should whey more then BST. I kinda miss seeing non meta units with strange builds.

Also AA shouldnt put you up against the same unit. Not because i cant deal with them. But seeing a Zelgius/Grima/wtf ever for the 5.th time in a row is tedious. I mean players cant use the same unit twice, why should you get pitted against same units twice. Yes i know its their defense team, but i think it wouldnt be bad to program something that swaped the same unit out for another unit.

Just do one of the 2 things above IS... please

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