Arena Discussion Thread (inc. Assault)

[Kuroi Tsubasa Tenshi]

25 minutes ago, Ice Dragon said:

Do you have an example? I went through every banner this year and every one has at least two marketable characters on it. I mean, you could instantly make Oswin or Wallace marketable by giving them good skills, but then you'd probably also get complaints of "why Oswin and Wallace when there are significantly more popular characters they could have picked?".

Though I totally wouldn't mind Bold Fighter or Vengeful Fighter dropping to the 4-star pool regardless of who it's on.

 

If we have three weeks of the Halloween characters this year, it'd be October 16 through November 5, which is nothing even close to "well into November". If we only have two weeks, it'd be October 16 through October 29, which awkwardly ends right before Halloween.

Scattered Fangs. Alt Nino for the popular character, flanked by a character who basically doesn't exist in Hector's mode (seriously, she's there for all of three chapters tops and has recruitment requirements obscure enough that it's a wonder anyone knows who she is) and a guy with a bit part with the Black Fang who is completely eclipsed by Nino and Jaffar's arc. Those really aren't any less marketable than the Jagen-esque advisor to Hector in his route and the hammy, bombastic ex-knight commander who shows up to help Lyn claim her birthright. Yeah, maybe they aren't sexy, half-dressed ladies, but they make an impression when they join (whether through combat or personality) and remain prominent in their relative arcs.

Exactly. That's why I pointed out that the placement of the Hallowe'en banner has been awkward in the past, so it should be no surprise that IS made it awkward again. Granted, this is less awkward, but still weird.

[Ice Dragon]

29 minutes ago, Kuroi Tsubasa Tenshi said:

Scattered Fangs. Alt Nino for the popular character, flanked by a character who basically doesn't exist in Hector's mode (seriously, she's there for all of three chapters tops and has recruitment requirements obscure enough that it's a wonder anyone knows who she is) and a guy with a bit part with the Black Fang who is completely eclipsed by Nino and Jaffar's arc. Those really aren't any less marketable than the Jagen-esque advisor to Hector in his route and the hammy, bombastic ex-knight commander who shows up to help Lyn claim her birthright. Yeah, maybe they aren't sexy, half-dressed ladies, but they make an impression when they join (whether through combat or personality) and remain prominent in their relative arcs.

Both Nino and Karla are very marketable.

Nino is Nino, is a flying tome user, has good stats, and has a powerful personal weapon. She's also really, really cute. "A horse with wings is called a pegasus!"

Karla is pretty, has good stats, has a powerful personal weapon, comes with Wrath, and is a top-of-class unit in a very saturated class. Have I mentioned she's pretty?

 

I could see one of Oswin or Wallace tagging along on a banner, but not both. Not unless they both have really good kits. Wallace could probably get a pass if Soeda does his art. I think his style would work really well for him.

The biggest problem is actually that lance and axe armors with "armor-like" stats are already saturated classes. Heck, Gatrie is probably more likely simply because they could make him a fast lance armor to reference his 60% Spd growth in Radiant Dawn. (Noting that we don't already have a fast lance armor in the game.)

 

I'd put Lorenz as more marketable than Oswin or Wallace (on appearance alone), but maybe I'm just biased towards his eyepatch and majestic silver hair and beard.

Edited October 9, 2018 by Ice Dragon

[Kuroi Tsubasa Tenshi]

36 minutes ago, Ice Dragon said:

Both Nino and Karla are very marketable.

Nino is Nino, is a flying tome user, has good stats, and has a powerful personal weapon. She's also really, really cute. "A horse with wings is called a pegasus!"

Karla is pretty, has good stats, has a powerful personal weapon, comes with Wrath, and is a top-of-class unit in a very saturated class. Have I mentioned she's pretty?

 

I could see one of Oswin or Wallace tagging along on a banner, but not both. Not unless they both have really good kits. Wallace could probably get a pass if Soeda does his art. I think his style would work really well for him.

The biggest problem is actually that lance and axe armors with "armor-like" stats are already saturated classes. Heck, Gatrie is probably more likely simply because they could make him a fast lance armor to reference his 60% Spd growth in Radiant Dawn. (Noting that we don't already have a fast lance armor in the game.)

 

I'd put Lorenz as more marketable than Oswin or Wallace (on appearance alone), but maybe I'm just biased towards his eyepatch and majestic silver hair and beard.

The kit thing doesn't really hold water when, as you've acknowledged, anyone can be given a good kit. Karla is also a really obscure character, so she's basically going on sex appeal alone.

I guess I"m putting a fair emphasis on playing people with their nostalgia, which Oswin, Wallace and Gatrie would do (also why I didn't mention Brom or Meg). If we're going on looks, Oswin's pretty handsome. Wallace not so much, I guess (I still think he would sell on his nostalgic ridiculousness, given Owain's/Odin's absurdity-based popularity). Gatrie's got that whole surfer-like appearance going for him, though. If we want to bring things in on appearance, Tauroneo's got some pretty good looks going on (though some people may have trouble remembering who he is).

[Alkaid]

3 hours ago, Ice Dragon said:

Hence why we get so many seasonal armors. Heroes doesn't have to stick to the same distributions as the main series games and shouldn't stick to the same distribution because single-movement-type teams are supposed to exist in this game.

Yes, but they still don't need to be saved for special banners as they are. That's the point. Because of the system they're using them as premium bait units rather than it just be a matter of they can't fit them in elsewhere or they want to boost the armor lineup. They could add more to regular banner armor units instead. Benny could have been on the latest Fates banner, or Kellam on the Awakening one, etc. but they haven't been doing new normal banner armor characters since Hardin(if he doesn't count as an alt too). And if they want alts, they still don't need to keep dumping them on special banners, as we got M.Grima and Zelgius early in the year. Since then, every armor has been seasonal, legendary or CYL.

I don't hate armors or anything, but I don't really like how they're being handled. It's just so transparent how they're bait units, not unlike how most ranged fliers have been, but these also impact arena negatively, in my opinion.

 

3 hours ago, Ice Dragon said:

Having a 180 stat total is entirely unnecessary to do well in the Arena. In terms of getting to and staying in Tier 21, whales have very little reason to actually pull for Myrrh. Tiki is actually useful because she's a Legendary Hero that isn't fire, but any Legendary armor with an earth element could take her place and do just as well.

Prior to Tiki's existence, I've been running teams in the 165-175 buckets without much issue, and really all Tiki does is let me run her with Swap instead of a Rally (from a scoring perspective; from a performance perspective, she's noticeably better than Hardin). To that effect, the Duel skills setting your stat bucket to 170 is perfectly sufficient.

What the Duel skills mean to me is that there's no Gen 3 planned for anytime in the foreseeable future, meaning that a stat total in the 170 bucket is probably going to remain competitive for a long enough time.

It's still an advantage to use them, though. You're even stating it with "but any legendary armor," because armors are still the big ticket units for arena score. IS is purposefully using them to tempt people by making arena scoring easier for those who get them. And because of this, tons of people run armors to try and up their score, meaning most teams you face have armors, so you want to get your own score-boosting armors to help pump your own score, which means IS keeps pushing more of them. That seems to be the cycle they're going for, at least.

Not everyone will take the bait, myself included, but the system still works the way it does. It seems both bad for balance and variety when one movement type is clearly above the rest for the "competitive" mode of the game. Duel skills may be sufficient for those not vying for the top spots right now, but they're only a bandaid on this issue. They present a way to throw a bone to those who want to use other units, but then they remind you you're only allowed to catch up so much with the release of 180 BST units right on the back of that.

Considering Duel skills, DB4, dual rally+, and the current BST formula being maxed by 2 units all in the span of about a month it seems like things are still moving forward pretty quickly as of late. They didn't pause with that 180 BST release right on top of the Duel skills, so it's hard to say if Gen 3 is a ways off or not. Yes, I know 180 is the theoretical max for right now, but this is IS. I suppose it could be until they get more Duel skills into the game, at least.

Edited October 10, 2018 by Alkaid

[DehNutCase]

55 minutes ago, Alkaid said:

It's still an advantage to use them, though. You're even stating it with "but any legendary armor," because armors are still the big ticket units for arena score. IS is purposefully using them to tempt people by making arena scoring easier for those who get them. And because of this, tons of people run armors to try and up their score, meaning most teams you face have armors, so you want to get your own score-boosting armors to help pump your own score, which means IS keeps pushing more of them. That seems to be the cycle they're going for, at least.

Not everyone will take the bait, myself included, but the system still works the way it does. It seems both bad for balance and variety when one movement type is clearly above the rest for the "competitive" mode of the game. Duel skills may be sufficient for those not vying for the top spots right now, but they're only a bandaid on this issue. They present a way to throw a bone to those who want to use other units, but then they remind you you're only allowed to catch up so much with the release of 180 BST units right on the back of that.

I wouldn't really call the current arena scoring system 'bait,' to be honest. Mostly because a pure performance based Arena would be nightmarish to play---a good offense team piloted by a good player is unbeatable, period, but everything worse than perfect play would be punished hard because the top teams would be those teams that are best at punishing mistakes and leveraging unfair arena maps to win. A system based on BST and skill costs is consistent, clear, and about as fair as possible without rating teams based on performance.

I'm personally one of the sufferers of the current system---I'm pretty sure I'm good at the game, but a with a dancer and 2 range horses wouldn't score too high even with +10, and they're +1/+1/+6---but I only suffer because I deliberately chose to 'suffer.' That is, I chose to run the units I like over units that score highly. (And I also hoard resources like crazy, but that's neither here nor there.)

It's 'unfair,' in a way, since I'm pretty sure I'm good enough to crush every single arena team with minimal changes to my main team (I'd run a staff in place of Horse!Lyn, since she does need the 4 Atk she's missing to keep up with the highest level of arena, whereas staffs don't give a damn), but there's simply no good way to score people based on performance without making arena hilariously unfun to play for everyone except the ones that are good enough to win every single time.

 

Of course, I imagine top tier arena is also unfun right now---armors & dragon spam is pretty trivial to beat, unless, you know, you're shackled shooting for score rather than performance. But that's a deliberate choice of everyone shooting for T21. (Yeah, you get 1 extra orb/week for it, but there's no way you'll ever get enough return out of it to do the amount of merges and pulls you'd need to get a high scoring team if you didn't have one already.)

Edited October 10, 2018 by DehNutCase

[Ice Dragon]

23 minutes ago, Kuroi Tsubasa Tenshi said:

The kit thing doesn't really hold water when, as you've acknowledged, anyone can be given a good kit. Karla is also a really obscure character, so she's basically going on sex appeal alone.

The kit thing does hold water. Anyone can be given a good kit, but the problem with Oswin and Wallace in that regard is that it's hard to give them a good kit without making them samey compared to other armors (because lance armors and axe armors are saturated).

As I said, Gatrie has a higher chance of getting in because he has an easy excuse to be a fast lance armor, which the game currently lacks. It might not be a stat spread that will dominate the scene (and, in fact, it likely won't land him in S+ or possibly even S), but it won't be just another armor with the same stat spread as every other armor.

 

28 minutes ago, Kuroi Tsubasa Tenshi said:

Meg

I would also put Meg in the higher likelihood category due to her also being a canonically fast armor. Heck, she might even qualify as a trainee.

 

11 minutes ago, Alkaid said:

I don't hate armors or anything, but I don't really like how they're being handled. It's just so transparent how they're bait units, not unlike how most ranged fliers have been, but these also impact arena negatively, in my opinion.

Even if they are used as "bait" units, that wouldn't prevent them from adding new ones to the standard summoning pool. I mean, they could add another slow, physically defensive armor on any banner, give them a run-of-the-mill skill set and still not hurt the value of the shiny, limited armors.

The problem, as I mentioned above, is that the vast majority of armors from the main series are the same-old slow, physically defensive armor that we already have a lot of. That's what I think is preventing them from adding new armors to the standard pool, which forces them to only be able to release the shiny armors with special features.

I don't think they really have a choice in the matter until they finally decide to let Bold Fighter and Vengeful Fighter enter the 4-star pool (or add Gatrie or Meg or Jugdral's geezer tome Barons).

 

21 minutes ago, Alkaid said:

It's still an advantage to use them, though. You're even stating it with "but any legendary armor," because armors are still the big ticket units for arena score.

Getting more Duel skills will actually fix that. Right now, it's just Legendary Ryoma and Legendary Lyn that can substitute in, and Lyn is kind of bad at Arena offense.

 

24 minutes ago, Alkaid said:

And because of this, tons of people run armors to try and up their score, meaning most teams you face have armors,

You can't improve your Arena offense score by putting armors on your Arena DEFENSE team.

 

26 minutes ago, Alkaid said:

They present a way to throw a bone to those who want to use other units, but then they remind you you're only allowed to catch up so much with the release of 180 BST units right on the back of that.

As I already mentioned, the advantage of running a unit with 180 total stats over a unit with 170 total stats is negligible. In fact, it's an average of only 5 points spread out over the entire Arena run.

And finally, you may or may not have noticed that @LordFrigid consistently scores higher than me with a team less optimized for score than mine because he actually feeds kills to his bonus units and I do not (I aim for 10 kills out of 20 and usually end up with only 12-14).

 

30 minutes ago, Alkaid said:

They didn't pause with that 180 BST release right on top of the Duel skills, so it's hard to say if Gen 3 is a ways off or not. I suppose it could be until they get more Duel skills into the game, at least.

I already made the argument somewhere that a unit with a 180 stat total was inevitable, but was implemented now in particular because they couldn't have feasibly released it earlier. Releasing Tiki earlier would cut off any value that Hardin brought, and considering that character releases are typically planned months in advance (which can be seen from the copyright watermarks on art posted by the artists), any person with half a brain would know that the best way to handle releases would be to release the stronger character later.

I don't think Gen 3 is happening anytime soon for two big reasons:

1. The Duel skills set the 170-174 bucket as a benchmark for scoring competitively in the Arena, and it is, in fact, competitive in practice. The fact that it is competitive in practice is important because that means paying players can be persuaded to pull for these skills to allow the characters they want to use be viable to use. If the Duel skills are made obsolete by continuing to increase the ceiling, then paying players will not bother pulling for those skills. This means that unless the developers want to discontinue the Duel skill series or retroactively improve their effect, they are locked to the current stat ceiling for marketing reasons.
2. I see the Gen 2 boost not as some intricate ploy to get people to pay for new shinies, but primarily as a means of rebalancing unit classes. If they just wanted to get people to pay for new shinies, they would have just boosted stats across the board, but they didn't. And, in fact, ranged cavalry units and dancers got no boost at all. On the contrary, despite getting no boosts at all, the number of ranged cavalry units being released increased substantially after Gen 2 started, which runs counter to the "intricate ploy to get people to pay for new shinies" allegation.
   1. There were 5 ranged cavalry at launch if you include Ursula.
   2. In the 9 months before the beginning of Gen 2, 4 ranged cavalry were released, and I'm including Lyn (who technically isn't Gen 2) to be generous. On top of that, there were zero ranged cavalry released for the 5-1/2-month interval between Priscilla (only 1 month after launch) and Lyn (for CYL1).
   3. In the 11 months since the beginning of Gen 2, 12 ranged cavalry were released.

 

8 minutes ago, DehNutCase said:

Of course, I imagine top tier arena is also unfun right now---armors & dragon spam is pretty trivial to beat, unless, you know, you're shackled shooting for score rather than performance. But that's a deliberate choice of everyone shooting for T21. (Yeah, you get 1 extra orb/week for it, but there's no way you'll ever get enough return out of it to do the amount of merges and pulls you'd need to get a high scoring team if you didn't have one already.)

It's actually rather fun for me, at least, especially now that the Duel skills exist and enlivened the place up with more diversity (because the people with high-scoring defense teams are usually the same people with resources to spare on very targeted builds for Arena defense).

[DehNutCase]

10 minutes ago, Ice Dragon said:

It's actually rather fun for me, at least, especially now that the Duel skills exist and enlivened the place up with more diversity (because the people with high-scoring defense teams are usually the same people with resources to spare on very targeted builds for Arena defense).

Good to know.

[Kuroi Tsubasa Tenshi]

36 minutes ago, Ice Dragon said:

The kit thing does hold water. Anyone can be given a good kit, but the problem with Oswin and Wallace in that regard is that it's hard to give them a good kit without making them samey compared to other armors (because lance armors and axe armors are saturated).

As I said, Gatrie has a higher chance of getting in because he has an easy excuse to be a fast lance armor, which the game currently lacks. It might not be a stat spread that will dominate the scene (and, in fact, it likely won't land him in S+ or possibly even S), but it won't be just another armor with the same stat spread as every other armor.

I would also put Meg in the higher likelihood category due to her also being a canonically fast armor. Heck, she might even qualify as a trainee.

Except it doesn't, since you're arguing this while defending Karla, who is the umpteenth speedy red sword to be crammed into the pool and she's somehow fine while they aren't?

Technically, Gatrie wouldn't be the first speedy lance armour unless we're completely discounting seasonals, since Winter Robin is a thing.

Except very few people care about Meg, while much more care about Oswin, Wallace and Gatrie. You go on about marketability, but the latter three are clearly more marketable on nostalgia factor alone.

[Ice Dragon]

2 minutes ago, Kuroi Tsubasa Tenshi said:

Except it doesn't, since you're arguing this while defending Karla, who is the umpteenth speedy red sword to be crammed into the pool and she's somehow fine while they aren't?

She's not the "umpteenth speedy sword infantry". She's the best speedy sword infantry (slightly better than Ayra, but not by enough to matter in a practical sense). Oswin or Wallace would need to out-perform Brave Hector to take their analogous crown, and I don't see that happening since they did a pretty damned good job of making Brave Hector future-proof for quite some time.

 

5 minutes ago, Kuroi Tsubasa Tenshi said:

Technically, Gatrie wouldn't be the first speedy lance armour unless we're completely discounting seasonals, since Winter Robin is a thing.

Yeah, I suppose Robin is a thing. I keep forgetting he's as fast as Amelia. Actually, I think I just keep forgetting he exists completely.

But Gatrie would still be less samey than Oswin or Wallace would be regardless. And they could just make Gatrie even faster than Robin and that'd make him sufficiently different.

 

6 minutes ago, Kuroi Tsubasa Tenshi said:

Except very few people care about Meg, while much more care about Oswin, Wallace and Gatrie. You go on about marketability, but the latter three are clearly more marketable on nostalgia factor alone.

I doubt anyone really cared about Karla (or Legault, for that matter) before she was added.

Meg has about as much marketability as Ewan or Ross... with her being armored subbing in for their popularity. Marketability isn't driven by a single factor. Nostalgia is only one of many factors, and Oswin and Wallace clearly lose out on other facets.

 

Also, what the everloving...?? Meg apparently beat Siegbert in CYL 1. And only got 2 fewer votes than Tethys. And beat Wallace by 74 votes. Okay. What?

[Kuroi Tsubasa Tenshi]

1 hour ago, Ice Dragon said:

She's not the "umpteenth speedy sword infantry". She's the best speedy sword infantry (slightly better than Ayra, but not by enough to matter in a practical sense). Oswin or Wallace would need to out-perform Brave Hector to take their analogous crown, and I don't see that happening since they did a pretty damned good job of making Brave Hector future-proof for quite some time.

 

Yeah, I suppose Robin is a thing. I keep forgetting he's as fast as Amelia. Actually, I think I just keep forgetting he exists completely.

But Gatrie would still be less samey than Oswin or Wallace would be regardless. And they could just make Gatrie even faster than Robin and that'd make him sufficiently different.

 

I doubt anyone really cared about Karla (or Legault, for that matter) before she was added.

Meg has about as much marketability as Ewan or Ross... with her being armored subbing in for their popularity. Marketability isn't driven by a single factor. Nostalgia is only one of many factors, and Oswin and Wallace clearly lose out on other facets.

 

Also, what the everloving...?? Meg apparently beat Siegbert in CYL 1. And only got 2 fewer votes than Tethys. And beat Wallace by 74 votes. Okay. What?

Yes, she's the best because they decided to power creep all the other red sword infantry. That's really not a decision tied to her character so much as them deciding to just make a powerful unit. This best red sword could have been any number of other candidates, yet they chose this obscure character who barely exists in her route. That's proof that they could go ahead and give strong sets to anyone else they want without any qualms.

Wait, why would Oswin or Wallace have to outperform Brave Hector? Oswin and Wallace are both very much known as lance users. I guess Wallace could be repurposed to axe based on his personality, but, like, Oswin can't even use axes off the bat and technically neither can Wallace until the game force-promotes him.

You would be right about Karla. She barely exists in her route. Her method of recruitment is obscure enough that most people who didn't look it up online at the time probably don't even know who she is. And as I stated before, Legault comes in, then is basically immediately overshadowed by Nino's and Jaffar's arc.

So... not especially marketable? Amelia got in pretty quickly, a clear fan favourite, but Ewan and Ross are nowhere to be seen.

CYL is an awful, skewed method that's little better than Voting Gauntlet for determining popularity. I thought we all already agreed a year ago that no one should take that thing seriously. Meg's always been a bottom-tier butt monkey with regards to Radiant Dawn discussion in just about any given forum. Definitely not something I'd hedge money on getting more money on.

EDIT: Never mind the Brave Hector part. Had a brain fart and jumped trains to thinking of Ephraim.

Edited October 10, 2018 by Kuroi Tsubasa Tenshi

[Ice Dragon]

4 minutes ago, Kuroi Tsubasa Tenshi said:

Wait, why would Oswin or Wallace have to outperform Brave Hector? Oswin and Wallace are both very much known as lance users. I guess Wallace could be repurposed to axe based on his personality, but, like, Oswin can't even use axes off the bat and technically neither can Wallace until the game force-promotes him.

I mean, you could try to compete with three Hectors and an Ephraim instead of just one Hector, but that probably won't go very well.

 

5 minutes ago, Kuroi Tsubasa Tenshi said:

So... not especially marketable? Amelia got in pretty quickly, a clear fan favourite, but Ewan and Ross are nowhere to be seen.

The probability of Ewan or Ross getting in on a not-Sacred Stones banner is rather low. We've gotten a grand total of two Sacred Stones banners. They'll get around to it at some point. I'd actually be surprised if the next Sacred Stones banner doesn't have at least one of the two.

 

8 minutes ago, Kuroi Tsubasa Tenshi said:

CYL is an awful, skewed method that's little better than Voting Gauntlet for determining popularity. I thought we all already agreed a year ago that no one should take that thing seriously. Meg's always been a bottom-tier butt monkey with regards to Radiant Dawn discussion in just about any given forum. Definitely not something I'd hedge money on getting more money on.

CYL 1 is a rather decent gauge of a character's popularity before the existence of Heroes unless you can give me a good reason to believe otherwise. We agreed a year ago that it's not accurate for estimating popularity after the release of Heroes as I remember that discussion being the result of people using CYL 1 to try to predict Voting Gauntlet team sizes.

The exact order stops mattering around where to get to Meg's placement (the ~500 votes range where things start flattening out), but the difference of 72 votes between Meg and Wallace is still three times the expected noise from statistical uncertainty.

[Vaximillian]

2 hours ago, Ice Dragon said:

I would also put Meg in the higher likelihood category due to her also being a canonically fast armor. Heck, she might even qualify as a trainee.

Not that it matters (I don’t give the tiniest fuck whether it actually does but bear with me) but Meg is our only “canonical” sword knight girl.

[Kuroi Tsubasa Tenshi]

3 minutes ago, Ice Dragon said:

I mean, you could try to compete with three Hectors and an Ephraim instead of just one Hector, but that probably won't go very well.

 

The probability of Ewan or Ross getting in on a not-Sacred Stones banner is rather low. We've gotten a grand total of two Sacred Stones banners. They'll get around to it at some point. I'd actually be surprised if the next Sacred Stones banner doesn't have at least one of the two.

 

CYL 1 is a rather decent gauge of a character's popularity before the existence of Heroes unless you can give me a good reason to believe otherwise. We agreed a year ago that it's not accurate for estimating popularity after the release of Heroes as I remember that discussion being the result of people using CYL 1 to try to predict Voting Gauntlet team sizes.

The exact order stops mattering around where to get to Meg's placement (the ~500 votes range where things start flattening out), but the difference of 72 votes between Meg and Wallace is still three times the expected noise from statistical uncertainty.

To be fair, they've found a way to have Hector power creep himself every single time, so if they're really determined to do it, like with Karla versus all other swords, they could. Not to mention Amelia overshadowing Hector for a time. Hell, if Dorcas, the man whose claim to fame is an incredibly bad commercial, was allowed to be infantry Hector, I'm sure they could find an excuse.

If they were really that popular, IS would probably want to prioritize another Sacred Stones banner to take advantage of that. If IS was really determined, either could make it onto a seasonal banner, a la Charlotte.

That's a rather odd distinction, but fine. I'm still skeptical, though, given that the voting system is a very bizarre one with a completely arbitrary cut-off point that just starts unceremoniously lumping anything under top 7 (if that, since duplicates are strangely allowed...) into a blob of uncertainty.

[Alkaid]

3 hours ago, Ice Dragon said:

Even if they are used as "bait" units, that wouldn't prevent them from adding new ones to the standard summoning pool. I mean, they could add another slow, physically defensive armor on any banner, give them a run-of-the-mill skill set and still not hurt the value of the shiny, limited armors.

The problem, as I mentioned above, is that the vast majority of armors from the main series are the same-old slow, physically defensive armor that we already have a lot of. That's what I think is preventing them from adding new armors to the standard pool, which forces them to only be able to release the shiny armors with special features.

I don't think they really have a choice in the matter until they finally decide to let Bold Fighter and Vengeful Fighter enter the 4-star pool (or add Gatrie or Meg or Jugdral's geezer tome Barons).

It shouldn't, no, but that's what they seem to have been doing for a lot of them. Armors have the competitive edge right now, so it seems like being armored may add an extra layer of value in IS's eyes. It feels like they've turned armors into a mostly premium unit type in of itself, or so it seems.

Almost every one of the limited banner armors has been that same slow and bulky type too. H.Henry, LA.Lyn, H.Niles and L.Tiki are basically the only exceptions. In the regular pool, Amelia and Zelgius are both quite fast too. I don't see a stat format that's forcing them to keep them as special units. They could still balance armors between limited and normal banners better than they have been.

3 hours ago, Ice Dragon said:

Getting more Duel skills will actually fix that. Right now, it's just Legendary Ryoma and Legendary Lyn that can substitute in, and Lyn is kind of bad at Arena offense.

As I already mentioned, the advantage of running a unit with 180 total stats over a unit with 170 total stats is negligible. In fact, it's an average of only 5 points spread out over the entire Arena run.

And finally, you may or may not have noticed that @LordFrigid consistently scores higher than me with a team less optimized for score than mine because he actually feeds kills to his bonus units and I do not (I aim for 10 kills out of 20 and usually end up with only 12-14).

I really think it's more of a bandaid than an actual fix. I know you don't think they'll move the range further for the time being, and maybe they won't, but the way that 180 Tiki got whipped out immediately gave me my doubts. Yes, I know the 180 is still in the current BST formula, but that was some interesting timing. I don't think the difference in the 180 units being negligible means it should be disregarded, since an advantage is still an advantage. It's still part of the draw in pulling for those units and adds to their value right now.

3 hours ago, Ice Dragon said:

You can't improve your Arena offense score by putting armors on your Arena DEFENSE team.

Tell that to the people loading their teams with armors anyway. Even when I do my daily extra arena runs with unmerged units and a dancer I still keep coming across them constantly. I'm really tired of seeing Hector's alts so much. Even more than score stacking, this is my real issue with the armor meta. The arena experience is just too stale, and we'll need more Duel skills before I notice much difference from those. I've only seen a couple PA Azura/Lewyn/Caeda still.

3 hours ago, Ice Dragon said:

I don't think Gen 3 is happening anytime soon for two big reasons:

1. The Duel skills set the 170-174 bucket as a benchmark for scoring competitively in the Arena, and it is, in fact, competitive in practice. The fact that it is competitive in practice is important because that means paying players can be persuaded to pull for these skills to allow the characters they want to use be viable to use. If the Duel skills are made obsolete by continuing to increase the ceiling, then paying players will not bother pulling for those skills. This means that unless the developers want to discontinue the Duel skill series or retroactively improve their effect, they are locked to the current stat ceiling for marketing reasons.
2. I see the Gen 2 boost not as some intricate ploy to get people to pay for new shinies, but primarily as a means of rebalancing unit classes. If they just wanted to get people to pay for new shinies, they would have just boosted stats across the board, but they didn't. And, in fact, ranged cavalry units and dancers got no boost at all. On the contrary, despite getting no boosts at all, the number of ranged cavalry units being released increased substantially after Gen 2 started, which runs counter to the "intricate ploy to get people to pay for new shinies" allegation.
   1. There were 5 ranged cavalry at launch if you include Ursula.
   2. In the 9 months before the beginning of Gen 2, 4 ranged cavalry were released, and I'm including Lyn (who technically isn't Gen 2) to be generous. On top of that, there were zero ranged cavalry released for the 5-1/2-month interval between Priscilla (only 1 month after launch) and Lyn (for CYL1).
   3. In the 11 months since the beginning of Gen 2, 12 ranged cavalry were released.

I agree on the logic for 1, but I think the quick implementation of 180 BST right after Duel skills was also a message that Duel skills are to be seen as a budget option. They still want to push people to pull for something greater than just using Duel skills if they want and edge in score. And while I may be sounding pessimistic, I think you're being a bit optimistic thinking they won't possibly push things further than we might expect too soon. "They wouldn't do that" is how you end up with a reaction like the Ayra situation got.

I think it's hard to deny increased stats aren't also meant to draw people to pull newer units. Re-balancing may well be part of things, but surely that's not all there was to it. As for the cavalry numbers, I don't think tells us much. That may well be just how they decided to lay out certain characters and unit types, even if they didn't get boosted. As much as a discussion about stats the armor issue has been, it's still not the only factor to consider. I'm just speculating off the last year's treatment of armor units, but we all know by now IS is actually just crazy and does whatever they feel like.

Edited October 10, 2018 by Alkaid

[Ice Dragon]

32 minutes ago, Kuroi Tsubasa Tenshi said:

To be fair, they've found a way to have Hector power creep himself every single time,

Not really. Normal Hector and Valentine Hector are pretty much the same unit. The difference in their stats is not large enough to really matter. Legendary Hector has a completely different role than the other two Hectors. The first two are "you can't kill me because you're dead" and Legendary Hector is "you can't kill me because I'm invincible". Brave Hector doesn't compete directly with the others, so he doesn't matter.

You could say that Legendary Hector outperforms normal Hector's omnibreaker, but that's mostly because normal Hector's omnibreaker set was gimmicky, ending up with that build not because he was designed to be able to run the build, but simply because he had access to the set of skills that made it possible. A unit designed to run a specific build is obviously going to be better at it than a unit that happened upon the build by coincidence. And I don't think anyone worth their salt would consider omnibreaker to be normal Hector's optimal set.

 

45 minutes ago, Kuroi Tsubasa Tenshi said:

I'm still skeptical, though, given that the voting system is a very bizarre one

The system of giving every voter up to 7 votes actually lets you see a more representative picture of voters' preferences. Voters that care more about the competition will tend to use more of their votes (i.e. log in to vote on more days), and voters that have a single preference and voters with multiple preferences can be distinguished from each other (i.e. voters who like several characters nearly equally can split their votes instead of being forced to go all-in on one option).

The absolute most representative picture would actually be done by letting all voters write in exactly what portion of their vote to give to any one option and how much they care about the competition itself, but that's unnecessarily complicated (and prone to lying on the how much they care question if voters realize it's being used to weight their vote).

 

1 hour ago, Kuroi Tsubasa Tenshi said:

with a completely arbitrary cut-off point that just starts unceremoniously lumping anything under top 7 (if that, since duplicates are strangely allowed...) into a blob of uncertainty.

I'm not sure I understand what you mean by this part of the statement. Is this about the format of CYL or is this about how I'm analyzing the results?

 

17 minutes ago, Alkaid said:

Almost every one of the limited banner armors has been that same slow and bulky type too. H.Henry, LA.Lyn, H.Niles and L.Tiki are basically the only exceptions. In the regular pool, Amelia and Zelgius are both quite fast too. I don't see a stat format that's forcing them to keep them a special units. They could still balance armors between limited and normal banners better than they have been.

Limited banner armors. Slow armors without a novel weapon type or a personal weapon that makes them not care about their slowness are bolded:

• Halloween Henry: not slow, novel weapon type
• Halloween Jakob: slow, novel weapon type
• Winter Chrom: slow, nothing special
• Winter Robin: not slow
• Winter Lissa: slow, nothing special besides introducing Bold Fighter
• Winter Tharja: slow, novel weapon type, introduced Vengeful Fighter
• Valentine Hector: slow, weapon designed for one-hit kills
• Valentine Lyn: not slow, novel weapon type
• Legendary Hector: slow, weapon that prevents enemy doubles
• Legendary Tiki: not slow, novel weapon type
• Halloween Kagero: slow, novel weapon type
• Halloween Niles: very fast, novel weapon type
• Halloween Myrrh: slow, novel weapon type, weapon that lets her use Def to check for doubles instead of Spd

Which means Chrom and Lissa are really the only limited-banner slow armors that don't have something else to make them more unique and marketable, though they were the first batch of Gen 2 melee armors, which was remarkable enough, I guess.

 

28 minutes ago, Alkaid said:

Tell that to the people loading their teams with armors anyway. Even when I do my daily extra arena runs with unmerged units and a dancer I still keep coming across them constantly. I'm really tired of seeing Hector's alts so much. Even more than score stacking, this is my real issue with the armor meta. The arena experience is just too stale, and we'll need more Duel skills before I notice much difference from those. I've only seen a couple PA Azura/Lewyn/Caeda still.

My assumption is that they're not so stupid as to be setting these teams in hopes of boosting their offense score. There's no reason to assume that that's their reasoning.

Maybe they want to show off. Maybe they are getting a consistent number of wins each week with their team.

The best place to be searching for Duel skills is the place where the skill's effect actually matters: at the very top of the Arena. There are some interesting things up there. Like the Nightmare Tana running +10 Summer Tana (Raudhrblade+, R Duel Flying 3, Windsweep 3, Phantom Spd 3) on a team full of Rally+'s before Legendary Tiki was a thing.

 

35 minutes ago, Alkaid said:

Duel skills are to be seen as a budget option.

Mhm. 5-star-exclusive skills are a budget option.

I'm seeing the exact opposite where the top defense teams are running it as a giant-middle-finger option to catch players off guard with units that you didn't used to have to deal with up there.

 

37 minutes ago, Alkaid said:

As for the cavalry numbers, I don't think tells us much.

It's way too perfect to be a coincidence that in the eight months between the release of Skill Inheritance (when ranged cavalry became broken) and the release of the Weapon Refinery (when we finally had decently enough tools to deal with that bullshit more effectively), there were zero ranged cavalry units implemented except for Lyn, who was a CYL winner. And then, suddenly, we get 12 in the next year.

The only piece of evidence I can find that holds any weight against this hypothesis is the fact that, of the ranged cavalry units that were implemented after the hiatus, only Larchel would have made sense to have appeared on an earlier banner, and even then, light magic had not yet been established as a thing.

That said, because artwork in Heroes never includes a character's mount, it's anyone's guess if any of the ranged seasonal characters ended up being changed from cavalry to a different movement type prior to release.

[Alkaid]

22 minutes ago, Ice Dragon said:

Limited banner armors. Slow armors without a novel weapon type or a personal weapon that makes them not care about their slowness are bolded:

• Halloween Henry: not slow, novel weapon type
• Halloween Jakob: slow, novel weapon type
• Winter Chrom: slow, nothing special
• Winter Robin: not slow
• Winter Lissa: slow, nothing special besides introducing Bold Fighter
• Winter Tharja: slow, novel weapon type, introduced Vengeful Fighter
• Valentine Hector: slow, weapon designed for one-hit kills
• Valentine Lyn: not slow, novel weapon type
• Legendary Hector: slow, weapon that prevents enemy doubles
• Legendary Tiki: not slow, novel weapon type
• Halloween Kagero: slow, novel weapon type
• Halloween Niles: very fast, novel weapon type
• Halloween Myrrh: slow, novel weapon type, weapon that lets her use Def to check for doubles instead of Spd

Which means Chrom and Lissa are really the only limited-banner slow armors that don't have something else to make them more unique and marketable, though they were the first batch of Gen 2 melee armors, which was remarkable enough, I guess.

Sure they come with extra skill goodies, as expected, but you said the same old slow and bulky statline was an issue, which evidently it's not. And as I said, it's not like fast armors are exclusive to limited banners either. That shouldn't inhibit them from releasing any normal banner armors like that at all for so long just because they'd be too samey or something. And remember M.Grima and Hardin did come with Vengeful and Bold Fighter too, so I don't think the skills alone are keeping them exclusive. IS is just being stingy with them lately, it seems.

And I forgot about W.Robin. My brain had blocked out that Ryo art.

32 minutes ago, Ice Dragon said:

My assumption is that they're not so stupid as to be setting these teams in hopes of boosting their offense score. There's no reason to assume that that's their reasoning.

Maybe they want to show off. Maybe they are getting a consistent number of wins each week with their team.

The best place to be searching for Duel skills is the place where the skill's effect actually matters: at the very top of the Arena. There are some interesting things up there. Like the Nightmare Tana running +10 Summer Tana (Raudhrblade+, R Duel Flying 3, Windsweep 3, Phantom Spd 3) on a team full of Rally+'s before Legendary Tiki was a thing.

Whatever the reason is, they do it, and I'm far from the only one who experiences this. Surely you see plenty of armors too. It's a problem when at all levels of play, even when we don't have THAT many armor units they're a good 80% minimum of what I see now. And I have seen some Duel skill units, as I said. They're just not very common. I've seen a couple Tanas with builds just like that (luckily Laegjarn could still beat her up pretty easily). I saw more +10 Lewyns than any other Duel skill unit, but not anymore since last week.

38 minutes ago, Ice Dragon said:

Mhm. 5-star-exclusive skills are a budget option.

I'm seeing the exact opposite where the top defense teams are running it as a giant-middle-finger option to catch players off guard with units that you didn't used to have to deal with up there.

Absolutely. Pulling for a copy for a Duel skill to throw on your existing +10 unit of X type is far more budget than actually whaling for a +10 5* and/or replacing anything on your team with armor if you aren't already using one. While I still don't like it, I'd rather pull for Green Duel Fliers when it comes up than replace my Camilla with a Sheena/Gwen/etc. that needs to be built from the ground up for score. You're not maxing out even normal budget F2P armor teams without DC usually either.

Well give the people around the 750 range a notice. I'd rather see G Duel Infantry Azuras than keep killing these CYL Hector + CYL Ephraim + L.Tiki/Hector teams.

44 minutes ago, Ice Dragon said:

It's way too perfect to be a coincidence that in the eight months between the release of Skill Inheritance (when ranged cavalry became broken) and the release of the Weapon Refinery (when we finally had decently enough tools to deal with that bullshit more effectively), there were zero ranged cavalry units implemented except for Lyn, who was a CYL winner. And then, suddenly, we get 12 in the next year.

The only piece of evidence I can find that holds any weight against this hypothesis is the fact that, of the ranged cavalry units that were implemented after the hiatus, only Larchel would have made sense to have appeared on an earlier banner, and even then, light magic had not yet been established as a thing.

That said, because artwork in Heroes never includes a character's mount, it's anyone's guess if any of the ranged seasonal characters ended up being changed from cavalry to a different movement type prior to release.

I guess we can't say either way, but I'd still chalk it up more to what characters they wanted to spread out at what times as a big part of it. They gotta fit in plenty of cute cav girls and a couple cav bros I guess as they spread things around.

[XRay]

41 minutes ago, Ice Dragon said:

And I don't think anyone worth their salt would consider omnibreaker to be normal Hector's optimal set.

Why would omnibreaker not be considered optimal, or at least one of the optimal options? While he does not do as well against hard list enemies, he does survive a bit more.

Hector [+Atk, -Spd] Wary Fighter-Quick Riposte
Enemy Phase [+Atk] 190:13:99
Enemy Phase [+Spd] 192:8:102
Enemy Phase [+Atk, no red] 174:2:32
Enemy Phase [+Spd, no red] 174:1:33
Enemy Phase [hard list+10] 59:39:124

Hector [+Def, -Spd] Special Fighter-Close Def
Enemy Phase [+Atk] 197:77:28
Enemy Phase [+Spd] 207:60:35
Enemy Phase [+Atk, no red] 161:32:15
Enemy Phase [+Spd, no red] 166:27:15
Enemy Phase [hard list+10] 95:71:56

Hectors

Spoiler

CHALLENGER LIST  
Hector (5* +atk -spd)  
Weapon: Armads  
Special: Moonbow  
A: Distant Counter  
B: Wary Fighter 3  
C: Goad Armor  
S: Quick Riposte 3  
 
Hector (5* +def -spd)  
Weapon: Armads  
Special: Ignis  
A: Distant Counter  
B: Special Fighter 3  
C: Goad Armor  
S: Close Def 3 

Full Lists

Spoiler

ENEMIES - FILTERED FULL LIST  
Include: melee, ranged, red, blue, green, gray, physical, magical, infantry, cavalry, flying, armored, staff, nonstaff  
Rarity: 5*  
Merge: +5  
Boon: +atk  
Special: Moonbow  
Replace Special: true  
A: Fury 3  
Replace A: true  

— — — — — — —

ENEMIES - FILTERED FULL LIST  
Include: melee, ranged, blue, green, gray, physical, magical, infantry, cavalry, flying, armored, staff, nonstaff  
Rarity: 5*  
Merge: +5  
Boon: +atk  
Special: Moonbow  
Replace Special: true  
A: Fury 3  
Replace A: true  

— — — — — — —

ENEMIES - FILTERED FULL LIST  
Include: melee, ranged, red, blue, green, gray, physical, magical, infantry, cavalry, flying, armored, staff, nonstaff  
Rarity: 5*  
Merge: +5  
Boon: +spd  
Special: Moonbow  
Replace Special: true  
A: Fury 3  
Replace A: true  

— — — — — — —

ENEMIES - FILTERED FULL LIST  
Include: melee, ranged, blue, green, gray, physical, magical, infantry, cavalry, flying, armored, staff, nonstaff  
Rarity: 5*  
Merge: +5  
Boon: +spd  
Special: Moonbow  
Replace Special: true  
A: Fury 3  
Replace A: true 

Hard List +10

Spoiler

ENEMIES - CUSTOM LIST  
Beruka (5*+10 +def)  
Weapon: Slaying Axe+  
Special: Ignis  
A: Distant Counter  
S: Distant Def 3  
Upgrade Path: 3  
 
Caeda (5*+10 +atk)  
Weapon: Wing Sword  
Special: Iceberg  
A: Distant Counter  
B: Quick Riposte 3  
S: Distant Def 3  
Upgrade Path: 5  
 
Caeda (5*+10 +atk)  
Weapon: Wing Sword  
Special: Iceberg  
A: Swift Sparrow 2  
B: Guard 3  
S: Speed 3  
Upgrade Path: 5  
 
Camilla (5*+10 +spd)  
Weapon: Slaying Axe+  
Special: Moonbow  
A: Distant Counter  
B: Quick Riposte 3  
S: Distant Def 3  
Upgrade Path: 2  
 
Camilla (5*+10 +spd)  
Weapon: Handbell+  
Special: Moonbow  
A: Distant Counter  
B: Quick Riposte 3  
S: Distant Def 3  
Upgrade Path: 2  
 
Camilla (5*+10 +spd)  
Weapon: Giant Spoon+  
Special: Moonbow  
A: Distant Counter  
B: Quick Riposte 3  
S: Distant Def 3  
Upgrade Path: 2  
 
Camilla (Spring) (5*+10 +atk)  
Weapon: Gronnblade+  
Special: Glimmer  
A: Death Blow 4  
S: Attack 3  
 
Camilla (Spring) (5*+10 +spd)  
Weapon: Gronnblade+  
Special: Moonbow  
A: Fury 3  
B: Windsweep 3  
 
Celica (5*+10 +spd)  
Weapon: Ragnarok  
Special: Luna  
A: Fury 3  
B: Swordbreaker 3  
 
Celica (5*+10 +spd)  
Weapon: Ragnarok  
Special: Luna  
A: Life and Death 3  
B: Swordbreaker 3  
 
Cherche (5*+10 +atk)  
Weapon: Brave Axe+  
Special: Luna  
A: Death Blow 4  
S: Attack 3  
 
Cherche (5*+10 +atk)  
Weapon: Brave Axe+  
Special: Bonfire  
A: Death Blow 4  
S: Attack 3  
 
Cordelia (5*+10 +atk)  
Weapon: Brave Lance+  
Special: Luna  
A: Death Blow 4  
S: Attack 3  
 
Cordelia (5*+10 +atk)  
Weapon: Brave Lance+  
Special: Luna  
A: Swift Sparrow 2  
S: Attack 3  
 
Cordelia (5*+10 +spd)  
Weapon: Firesweep Lance+  
Special: Luna  
A: Swift Sparrow 2  
S: Speed 3  
 
Cordelia (5*+10 +spd)  
Weapon: Firesweep Lance+  
Special: Luna  
A: Life and Death 3  
S: Speed 3  
 
Cordelia (Bride) (5*+10 +atk)  
Weapon: Brave Bow+  
Special: Luna  
A: Life and Death 3  
 
Cordelia (Bride) (5*+10 +atk)  
Weapon: Brave Bow+  
Special: Moonbow  
A: Death Blow 4  
 
Cordelia (Bride) (5*+10 +atk)  
Weapon: Brave Bow+  
Special: Moonbow  
A: Death Blow 4  
S: Quickened Pulse  
 
Cordelia (Bride) (5*+10 +spd)  
Weapon: Brave Bow+  
Special: Luna  
A: Life and Death 3  
 
Cordelia (Bride) (5*+10 +spd)  
Weapon: Firesweep Bow+  
Special: Luna  
A: Life and Death 3  
 
Corrin(F) (Summer) (5*+10 +atk)  
Weapon: Blarblade+  
Special: Moonbow  
A: Fury 3  
B: B Tomebreaker 3  
 
Corrin(F) (5*+10 +atk)  
Weapon: Lightning Breath+  
Special: Bonfire  
A: Steady Breath  
B: Quick Riposte 3  
S: Speed 3  
Upgrade Path: 3  
 
Corrin(F) (Summer) (5*+10 +spd)  
Weapon: Blarblade+  
Special: Moonbow  
A: Fury 3  
B: B Tomebreaker 3  
 
Delthea (5*+10 +atk)  
Weapon: Dark Aura  
Special: Moonbow  
A: Fury 3  
B: B Tomebreaker 3  
 
Delthea (5*+10 +atk)  
Weapon: Dark Aura  
Special: Moonbow  
A: Life and Death 3  
B: B Tomebreaker 3  
 
Dorcas (5*+10 +atk)  
Weapon: Stout Tomahawk  
Special: Glimmer  
A: Warding Breath  
B: Wrath 3  
S: Distant Def 3  
 
Draug (5*+10 +def)  
Weapon: Wo Dao+  
Special: Ignis  
A: Steady Breath  
B: Bold Fighter 3  
S: Quick Riposte 3  
Upgrade Path: 1  
 
Draug (5*+10 +atk)  
Weapon: Slaying Edge+  
Special: Glimmer  
A: Distant Counter  
B: Wrath 3  
Upgrade Path: 1  
 
Azura (5*+10 +spd)  
Weapon: Sapphire Lance+  
Special: Moonbow  
A: Fury 3  
C: Fortify Res 3  
 
Effie (5*+10 +atk)  
Weapon: Brave Lance+  
Special: Ignis  
A: Death Blow 4  
B: Bold Fighter 3  
S: Attack 3  
 
Effie (5*+10 +atk)  
Weapon: Tannenboom!+  
Special: Moonbow  
A: Distant Counter  
B: Wary Fighter 3  
S: Deflect Magic 3  
Upgrade Path: 4  
 
Effie (5*+10 +atk)  
Weapon: Slaying Lance+  
Special: Glimmer  
A: Distant Counter  
B: Wary Fighter 3  
S: Deflect Magic 3  
Upgrade Path: 4  
 
Effie (5*+10 +atk)  
Weapon: Berkut's Lance+  
Special: Glimmer  
A: Distant Counter  
B: Wary Fighter 3  
S: Close Def 3  
Upgrade Path: 4  
 
Effie (5*+10 +atk)  
Weapon: Slaying Lance+  
Special: Glimmer  
A: Distant Counter  
B: Wrath 3  
S: Deflect Magic 3  
Upgrade Path: 4  
 
Effie (5*+10 +atk)  
Weapon: Slaying Lance+  
Special: Glimmer  
A: Distant Counter  
B: Bold Fighter 3  
S: Quick Riposte 3  
Upgrade Path: 1  
 
Effie (5*+10 +atk)  
Weapon: Ridersbane+  
Special: Moonbow  
A: Distant Counter  
B: Wary Fighter 3  
S: Deflect Magic 3  
Upgrade Path: 5  
 
Effie (5*+10 +atk)  
Weapon: Slaying Lance+  
Special: Bonfire  
A: Distant Counter  
B: Wary Fighter 3  
S: Quickened Pulse  
 
Eldigan (5*+10 +atk)  
Weapon: Mystletainn  
Special: Bonfire  
A: Distant Counter  
B: Swordbreaker 3  
S: Quickened Pulse  
Upgrade Path: 5  
 
Elincia (5*+10 +atk)  
Weapon: Amiti  
Special: Luna  
A: Death Blow 4  
B: Swordbreaker 3  
 
Elincia (5*+10 +spd)  
Weapon: Amiti  
Special: Luna  
A: Death Blow 4  
B: Swordbreaker 3  
 
Elincia (5*+10 +spd)  
Weapon: Firesweep Sword+  
Special: Luna  
A: Swift Sparrow 2  
B: Swordbreaker 3  
 
Elise (5*+10 +atk)  
Weapon: Gravity+  
Special: Miracle  
A: Atk Spd 2  
B: Wrathful Staff 3  
Upgrade Path: 7  
 
Elise (5*+10 +atk)  
Weapon: Gravity+  
Special: Miracle  
A: Close Def 3  
B: Wrathful Staff 3  
S: Close Def 3  
Upgrade Path: 7  
 
Elise (Summer) (5*+10 +spd)  
Weapon: Gronnblade+  
Special: Moonbow  
A: Fury 3  
B: G Tomebreaker 3  
 
Ephraim (5*+10 +spd)  
Weapon: Siegmund  
Special: Moonbow  
A: Fury 3  
B: Quick Riposte 3  
Upgrade Path: 5  
 
Ephraim (5*+10 +atk)  
Weapon: Siegmund  
Special: Moonbow  
A: Death Blow 4  
B: Quick Riposte 3  
Upgrade Path: 5  
 
Fae (5*+10 +spd)  
Weapon: Lightning Breath+  
Special: Moonbow  
A: Fury 3  
B: G Tomebreaker 3  
S: Distant Def 3  
Upgrade Path: 2  
 
Fae (5*+10)  
Weapon: Lightning Breath+  
Special: Bonfire  
A: Steady Breath  
B: Quick Riposte 3  
Upgrade Path: 3  
 
Frederick (5*+10 +atk)  
Weapon: Brave Axe+  
Special: Luna  
A: Death Blow 4  
S: Attack 3  
 
Hector (5*+10 +atk)  
Weapon: Armads  
Special: Bonfire  
A: Distant Counter  
B: Wrath 3  
 
Hector (5*+10 +atk)  
Weapon: Armads  
Special: Glimmer  
A: Distant Counter  
B: Wary Fighter 3  
S: Quick Riposte 3  
 
Hector (5*+10 +spd)  
Weapon: Armads  
Special: Bonfire  
A: Distant Counter  
B: Wrath 3  
 
Hector (5*+10 +atk)  
Weapon: Armads  
Special: Bonfire  
A: Distant Counter  
B: Bold Fighter 3  
 
Ike (Brave) (5*+10 +spd)  
Weapon: Urvan  
Special: Aether  
A: Steady Breath  
B: Quick Riposte 3  
 
Ike (Brave) (5*+10 +spd)  
Weapon: Urvan  
Special: Bonfire  
A: Distant Counter  
B: Beorc's Blessing  
S: Quickened Pulse  
 
Ike (Brave) (5*+10 +spd)  
Weapon: Urvan  
Special: Ignis  
A: Steady Breath  
B: Quick Riposte 3  
S: Quickened Pulse  
 
Ike (Brave) (5*+10 +atk)  
Weapon: Urvan  
Special: Ignis  
A: Steady Breath  
B: Wrath 3  
S: Quickened Pulse  
 
Julia (5*+10 +spd)  
Weapon: Divine Naga  
Special: Moonbow  
A: Fury 3  
B: G Tomebreaker 3  
 
Katarina (5*+10 +spd)  
Weapon: Raudrblade+  
Special: Glimmer  
A: Fury 3  
B: Swordbreaker 3  
 
Katarina (5*+10 +spd)  
Weapon: Raudrblade+  
Special: Glimmer  
A: Life and Death 3  
B: Swordbreaker 3  
 
Morgan(M) (5*+10 +spd)  
Weapon: Raudrblade+  
Special: Glimmer  
A: Fury 3  
B: Swordbreaker 3  
 
Leo (5*+10 +atk)  
Weapon: Raudrblade+  
Special: Glimmer  
A: Fury 3  
B: R Tomebreaker 3  
 
Leon (5*+10 +atk)  
Weapon: Brave Bow+  
Special: Luna  
A: Death Blow 4  
 
Lilina (5*+10 +atk)  
Weapon: Forblaze  
Special: Glimmer  
A: Death Blow 4  
B: Swordbreaker 3  
S: Heavy Blade 3  
Upgrade Path: 5  
 
Linde (5*+10 +spd)  
Weapon: Blarblade+  
Special: Glimmer  
A: Fury 3  
B: B Tomebreaker 3  
 
Linde (5*+10 +spd)  
Weapon: Blarblade+  
Special: Glimmer  
A: Life and Death 3  
B: B Tomebreaker 3  
 
Lucina (5*+10 +spd)  
Weapon: Falchion  
Special: Moonbow  
A: Fury 3  
B: Wrath 3  
Upgrade Path: 5  
 
Lucina (Brave) (5*+10 +spd)  
Weapon: Geirskogul  
Special: Moonbow  
A: Fury 3  
B: Wrath 3  
 
Lyn (5*+10 +atk)  
Weapon: Sol Katti  
Special: Luna  
A: Fury 3  
B: Wrath 3  
S: Attack 3  
Upgrade Path: 5  
 
Lyn (Brave) (5*+10 +atk)  
Weapon: Brave Bow+  
Special: Moonbow  
A: Death Blow 4  
B: Sacae's Blessing  
S: Quickened Pulse  
 
Lyn (Brave) (5*+10 +atk)  
Weapon: Firesweep Bow+  
Special: Moonbow  
A: Swift Sparrow 2  
B: Cancel Affinity 3  
S: Deflect Magic 3  
 
Lyn (Brave) (5*+10 +atk)  
Weapon: Mulagir  
Special: Moonbow  
A: Swift Sparrow 2  
B: Sacae's Blessing  
S: Deflect Magic 3  
 
Minerva (5*+10 +atk)  
Weapon: Hauteclere  
Special: Glimmer  
A: Life and Death 3  
B: Quick Riposte 3  
Upgrade Path: 5  
 
Minerva (5*+10 +spd)  
Weapon: Hauteclere  
Special: Glimmer  
A: Fury 3  
B: Quick Riposte 3  
Upgrade Path: 5  
 
Minerva (5*+10 +spd)  
Weapon: Hauteclere  
Special: Luna  
A: Life and Death 3  
B: Quick Riposte 3  
Upgrade Path: 5  
 
Nino (5*+10 +spd)  
Weapon: Gronnblade+  
Special: Glimmer  
A: Fury 3  
B: G Tomebreaker 3  
 
Nino (5*+10 +spd)  
Weapon: Gronnblade+  
Special: Glimmer  
A: Life and Death 3  
B: G Tomebreaker 3  
 
Nowi (5*+10 +atk)  
Weapon: Lightning Breath+  
Special: Moonbow  
A: Fury 3  
B: Quick Riposte 3  
S: Distant Def 3  
Upgrade Path: 1  
 
Nowi (5*+10 +spd)  
Weapon: Lightning Breath+  
Special: Moonbow  
A: Fury 3  
B: Quick Riposte 3  
S: Distant Def 3  
Upgrade Path: 2  
 
Nowi (5*+10 +atk)  
Weapon: Lightning Breath+  
Special: Bonfire  
A: Steady Breath  
B: Quick Riposte 3  
S: Distant Def 3  
Upgrade Path: 3  
 
Nowi (5*+10 +atk)  
Weapon: Lightning Breath+  
Special: Bonfire  
A: Warding Breath  
B: Quick Riposte 3  
S: Distant Def 3  
Upgrade Path: 3  
 
Olwen (5*+10 +atk)  
Weapon: Blarblade+  
Special: Moonbow  
A: Life and Death 3  
B: Windsweep 3  
S: Phantom Spd 3  
 
Olwen (5*+10 +atk)  
Weapon: Dire Thunder  
Special: Luna  
A: Life and Death 3  
B: Windsweep 3  
S: Phantom Spd 3  
 
Reinhardt (5*+10 +atk)  
Weapon: Dire Thunder  
Special: Luna  
A: Swift Sparrow 2  
B: Watersweep 3  
S: Phantom Spd 3  
 
Reinhardt (5*+10 +atk)  
Weapon: Dire Thunder  
Special: Moonbow  
A: Death Blow 4  
S: Quickened Pulse  
 
Roy (Brave) (5*+10 +atk)  
Weapon: Blazing Durandal  
Special: Luna  
A: Swift Sparrow 2  
B: Swordbreaker 3  
 
Roy (Brave) (5*+10 +spd)  
Weapon: Blazing Durandal  
Special: Dragon Fang  
A: Fury 3  
B: Swordbreaker 3  
 
Roy (Brave) (5*+10 +spd)  
Weapon: Blazing Durandal  
Special: Luna  
A: Death Blow 4  
B: Swordbreaker 3  
 
Roy (Brave) (5*+10 +spd)  
Weapon: Blazing Durandal  
Special: Luna  
A: Swift Sparrow 2  
B: Swordbreaker 3  
 
Ryoma (5*+10 +spd)  
Weapon: Raijinto  
Special: Moonbow  
A: Fury 3  
B: Wrath 3  
S: Distant Def 3  
 
Ryoma (5*+10 +spd)  
Weapon: Raijinto  
Special: Glimmer  
A: Steady Breath  
B: Quick Riposte 3  
S: Distant Def 3  
 
Ryoma (5*+10 +spd)  
Weapon: Raijinto  
Special: Moonbow  
A: Fury 3  
B: Wrath 3  
S: Distant Def 3  
 
Ryoma (5*+10 +spd)  
Weapon: Raijinto  
Special: Moonbow  
A: Fury 3  
B: Quick Riposte 3  
S: Distant Def 3  
 
Sanaki (5*+10 +atk)  
Weapon: Raudrblade+  
Special: Glimmer  
A: Death Blow 4  
B: Swordbreaker 3  
 
Sanaki (5*+10 +spd)  
Weapon: Raudrblade+  
Special: Glimmer  
A: Fury 3  
B: Swordbreaker 3  
 
Sheena (5*+10 +atk)  
Weapon: Slaying Axe+  
Special: Glimmer  
A: Distant Counter  
B: Wrath 3  
S: Attack 3  
Upgrade Path: 1  
 
Sheena (5*+10 +atk)  
Weapon: Slaying Axe+  
Special: Ignis  
A: Distant Counter  
B: Vengeful Fighter 3  
S: Distant Def 3  
Upgrade Path: 1  
 
Tana (5*+10 +atk)  
Weapon: Brave Lance+  
Special: Luna  
A: Swift Sparrow 2  
 
Tana (5*+10 +spd)  
Weapon: Firesweep Lance+  
Special: Luna  
A: Swift Sparrow 2  
 
Tharja (5*+10 +spd)  
Weapon: Raudrblade+  
Special: Glimmer  
A: Fury 3  
B: Swordbreaker 3  
 
Tharja (5*+10 +spd)  
Weapon: Raudrblade+  
Special: Glimmer  
A: Life and Death 3  
B: Swordbreaker 3  
 
Tiki(Y) (5*+10 +spd)  
Weapon: Lightning Breath+  
Special: Moonbow  
A: Fury 3  
B: Quick Riposte 3  
S: Distant Def 3  
Upgrade Path: 2  
 
Tiki(Y) (5*+10 +spd)  
Weapon: Lightning Breath+  
Special: Bonfire  
A: Steady Breath  
B: Quick Riposte 3  
S: Distant Def 3  
Upgrade Path: 2  
 
Tiki(A) (5*+10 +atk)  
Weapon: Lightning Breath+  
Special: Moonbow  
A: Fury 3  
B: Quick Riposte 3  
S: Distant Def 3  
Upgrade Path: 1  
 
Tiki(A) (5*+10 +atk)  
Weapon: Lightning Breath+  
Special: Bonfire  
A: Steady Breath  
B: Quick Riposte 3  
S: Close Def 3  
Upgrade Path: 3  
 
Tiki(A) (5*+10 +atk)  
Weapon: Lightning Breath+  
Special: Bonfire  
A: Warding Breath  
B: Guard 3  
S: Quick Riposte 3  
Upgrade Path: 4  
 
Tiki(A) (5*+10 +res)  
Weapon: Lightning Breath+  
Special: Bonfire  
A: Warding Breath  
B: Quick Riposte 3  
S: Distant Def 3  
Upgrade Path: 4  
 
Titania (5*+10 +atk)  
Weapon: Emerald Axe+  
Special: Luna  
A: Distant Counter  
B: G Tomebreaker 3  
 
Zephiel (5*+10)  
Weapon: Slaying Edge+  
Special: Glimmer  
A: Distant Counter  
B: Wary Fighter 3  
S: Distant Def 3  
Upgrade Path: 1  
 
Sigurd (5*+10 +atk)  
Weapon: Slaying Edge  
Special: Glimmer  
A: Distant Counter  
B: Quick Riposte 3  
S: Distant Def 3  
 
Sigurd (5*+10 +atk)  
Weapon: Divine Tyrfing  
Special: Bonfire  
A: Distant Counter  
B: Crusader's Ward  
S: Close Def 3  
 
Deirdre (5*+10 +spd)  
Weapon: Divine Naga  
Special: Moonbow  
A: Fury 3  
B: Quick Riposte 3  
 
Ayra (5*+10 +spd)  
Weapon: Slaying Edge+  
Special: Regnal Astra  
A: Swift Sparrow 2  
B: Wrath 3  
S: Quickened Pulse  
Upgrade Path: 1  
 
Ayra (5*+10 +atk)  
Weapon: Slaying Edge+  
Special: Regnal Astra  
A: Swift Sparrow 2  
B: Wrath 3  
S: Quickened Pulse  
Upgrade Path: 1  
 
Ayra (5*+10 +spd)  
Weapon: Slaying Edge+  
Special: Regnal Astra  
A: Distant Counter  
B: Wrath 3  
S: Attack 3  
Upgrade Path: 1  
 
Ayra (5*+10 +atk)  
Weapon: Slaying Edge+  
Special: Regnal Astra  
A: Distant Counter  
B: Wrath 3  
S: Attack 3  
Upgrade Path: 1  
 
Arden (5*+10)  
Weapon: Slaying Edge+  
Special: Bonfire  
A: Distant Counter  
B: Follow-Up Ring  
S: Quickened Pulse  
Upgrade Path: 1  
 
Arden (5*+10)  
Weapon: Slaying Edge+  
Special: Moonbow  
A: Distant Counter  
B: Follow-Up Ring  
Upgrade Path: 1  
 
Arden (5*+10)  
Weapon: Brave Sword+  
Special: Ignis  
A: Death Blow 4  
B: Follow-Up Ring  
S: Attack 3  
 
Jakob (TOD) (5*+10 +atk)  
Weapon: Slaying Bow+  
Special: Glimmer  
A: Close Counter  
B: Wary Fighter 3  
S: Distant Def 3  
 
Jakob (TOD) (5*+10 +atk)  
Weapon: Guard Bow+  
Special: Ignis  
A: Close Counter  
B: Vengeful Fighter 3  
S: Distant Def 3  
Upgrade Path: 3  
 
Jakob (TOD) (5*+10 +atk)  
Weapon: Slaying Bow+  
Special: Bonfire  
A: Death Blow 4  
B: Bold Fighter 3  
S: Attack 3  
 
Jakob (TOD) (5*+10 +atk)  
Weapon: Brave Bow+  
Special: Ignis  
A: Death Blow 4  
B: Bold Fighter 3  
S: Attack 3  
 
Jakob (TOD) (5*+10 +atk)  
Weapon: Brave Bow+  
Special: Bonfire  
A: Death Blow 4  
B: Bold Fighter 3  
S: Quickened Pulse  
 
Henry (TOD) (5*+10 +atk)  
Weapon: Gronnblade+  
Special: Glimmer  
A: Death Blow 4  
B: Bold Fighter 3  
 
Nowi (TOD) (5*+10 +spd)  
Weapon: Raudrblade+  
Special: Moonbow  
A: Swift Sparrow 2  
B: Windsweep 3  
S: Phantom Spd 3  
 
Mia (5*+10 +spd)  
Weapon: Resolute Blade  
Special: Luna  
A: Flashing Blade 3  
B: Wrath 3  
 
Mia (5*+10 +spd)  
Weapon: Resolute Blade  
Special: Moonbow  
A: Distant Counter  
B: Wrath 3  
S: Quickened Pulse  
 
Dorcas (5*+10 +atk)  
Weapon: Stout Tomahawk  
Special: Glimmer  
A: Steady Breath  
B: Wrath 3  
S: Distant Def 3  
 
Siegbert (5*+10 +atk)  
Weapon: Dark Greatsword  
Special: Moonbow  
A: Swift Sparrow 2  
B: Swordbreaker 3  
 
Siegbert (5*+10 +atk)  
Weapon: Dark Greatsword  
Special: Moonbow  
A: Heavy Blade 3  
B: Swordbreaker 3  
 
Siegbert (5*+10 +spd)  
Weapon: Dark Greatsword  
Special: Moonbow  
A: Fury 3  
B: Swordbreaker 3  
 
Siegbert (5*+10 +spd)  
Weapon: Dark Greatsword  
Special: Moonbow  
A: Death Blow 4  
B: Swordbreaker 3  
 
Siegbert (5*+10 +spd)  
Weapon: Dark Greatsword  
Special: Moonbow  
A: Swift Sparrow 2  
B: Swordbreaker 3  
 
Chrom (WE) (5*+10 +atk)  
Weapon: Slaying Axe+  
Special: Glimmer  
A: Distant Counter  
B: Vengeful Fighter 3  
S: Distant Def 3  
Upgrade Path: 1  
 
Chrom (WE) (5*+10 +atk)  
Weapon: Slaying Axe+  
Special: Glimmer  
A: Distant Counter  
B: Wrath 3  
S: Distant Def 3  
Upgrade Path: 1  
 
Chrom (WE) (5*+10 +atk)  
Weapon: Brave Axe+  
Special: Ignis  
A: Death Blow 4  
B: Bold Fighter 3  
S: Attack 3  
 
Lissa (WE) (5*+10 +atk)  
Weapon: Slaying Axe+  
Special: Glimmer  
A: Distant Counter  
B: Wrath 3  
S: Distant Def 3  
Upgrade Path: 1  
 
Lissa (WE) (5*+10 +atk)  
Weapon: Slaying Axe+  
Special: Ignis  
A: Death Blow 4  
B: Bold Fighter 3  
S: Attack 3  
Upgrade Path: 1  
 
Robin(M) (WE) (5*+10 +atk)  
Weapon: Brave Lance+  
Special: Ignis  
A: Death Blow 4  
B: Bold Fighter 3  
S: Attack 3  
 
Robin(M) (WE) (5*+10 +atk)  
Weapon: Slaying Lance+  
Special: Glimmer  
A: Distant Counter  
B: Wrath 3  
Upgrade Path: 1  
 
Robin(M) (WE) (5*+10 +atk)  
Weapon: Slaying Lance+  
Special: Bonfire  
A: Death Blow 4  
B: Bold Fighter 3  
Upgrade Path: 1  
 
Tharja (WE) (5*+10 +def)  
Weapon: Candelabra+  
Special: Ignis  
A: Close Counter  
B: Vengeful Fighter 3  
S: Close Def 3  
Upgrade Path: 3  
 
Tharja (WE) (5*+10 +atk)  
Weapon: Raudrblade+  
Special: Glimmer  
A: Death Blow 4  
B: Bold Fighter 3  
S: Attack 3  
 
Zelgius (5*+10 +atk)  
Weapon: Alondite  
Special: Black Luna  
A: Steady Breath  
B: Vengeful Fighter 3  
S: Quickened Pulse  
 
Zelgius (5*+10 +atk)  
Weapon: Alondite  
Special: Black Luna  
A: Steady Breath  
B: Wrath 3  
S: Quickened Pulse  
 
Zelgius (5*+10 +atk)  
Weapon: Slaying Edge+  
Special: Black Luna  
A: Steady Breath  
B: Bold Fighter 3  
S: Quick Riposte 3  
Upgrade Path: 1  
 
Zelgius (5*+10 +atk)  
Weapon: Alondite  
Special: Black Luna  
A: Steady Breath  
B: Bold Fighter 3  
S: Quick Riposte 3  
 
Zelgius (5*+10 +atk)  
Weapon: Brave Sword+  
Special: Black Luna  
A: Death Blow 4  
B: Bold Fighter 3  
S: Quickened Pulse  
 
Myrrh (5*+10 +def)  
Weapon: Great Flame  
Special: Glimmer  
A: Distant Counter  
B: Quick Riposte 3  
S: Close Def 3  
 
Myrrh (5*+10 +def)  
Weapon: Great Flame  
Special: Glimmer  
A: Distant Counter  
B: Quick Riposte 3  
S: Iote's Shield  
 
Myrrh (5*+10 +def)  
Weapon: Great Flame  
Special: Glimmer  
A: Fury 3  
B: Quick Riposte 3  
S: Close Def 3  
 
Ike (VL) (5*+10 +atk)  
Weapon: Ragnell  
Special: Glimmer  
A: Warding Breath  
B: Wrath 3  
S: Quick Riposte 3  
 
Ike (VL) (5*+10 +atk)  
Weapon: Ragnell  
Special: Radiant Aether  
A: Steady Breath  
B: Quick Riposte 3  
S: Close Def 3  
 
Ike (VL) (5*+10 +atk)  
Weapon: Ragnell  
Special: Glimmer  
A: Warding Breath  
B: Wrath 3  
S: Quick Riposte 3  
 
Lyn (LA) (5*+10 +atk)  
Weapon: Blarblade+  
Special: Glimmer  
A: Death Blow 4  
B: Bold Fighter 3  
S: Attack 3  
 
Hector (LA) (5*+10 +atk)  
Weapon: Berserk Armads  
Special: Glimmer  
A: Distant Counter  
B: Wrath 3  
S: Distant Def 3  
 
Hector (LA) (5*+10 +atk)  
Weapon: Berserk Armads  
Special: Glimmer  
A: Distant Counter  
B: Bold Fighter 3  
S: Distant Def 3  
 
Hector (LA) (5*+10 +atk)  
Weapon: Berserk Armads  
Special: Glimmer  
A: Distant Counter  
B: Wary Fighter 3  
S: Distant Def 3  
 
Hector (LA) (5*+10 +atk)  
Weapon: Berserk Armads  
Special: Bonfire  
A: Distant Counter  
B: Bold Fighter 3  
S: Distant Def 3  
 
Hector (LA) (5*+10 +atk)  
Weapon: Berserk Armads  
Special: Glimmer  
A: Distant Counter  
B: Vengeful Fighter 3  
S: Distant Def 3  
 
Hector (LA) (5*+10 +atk)  
Weapon: Berserk Armads  
Special: Bonfire  
A: Distant Counter  
S: Quickened Pulse  
 
Hector (LA) (5*+10 +atk)  
Weapon: Berserk Armads  
Special: Bonfire  
A: Distant Counter  
B: Wrath 3  
S: Quickened Pulse  
 
Alm (5*+10 +atk)  
Weapon: Falchion  
Special: Moonbow  
A: Death Blow 4  
S: Heavy Blade 3  
Upgrade Path: 5  
 
Hardin (FH) (5*+10 +atk)  
Weapon: Gradivus  
Special: Glimmer  
A: Warding Breath  
B: Bold Fighter 3  
S: Distant Def 3  
 
Hardin (FH) (5*+10 +atk)  
Weapon: Gradivus  
Special: Glimmer  
A: Steady Breath  
B: Bold Fighter 3  
S: Distant Def 3  
 
Hardin (FH) (5*+10 +atk)  
Weapon: Gradivus  
Special: Glimmer  
A: Warding Breath  
S: Quickened Pulse  
 
Robin(M) (FH) (5*+10 +atk)  
Weapon: Expiration  
Special: Glimmer  
A: Warding Breath  
B: Bold Fighter 3  
S: Distant Def 3  
 
Robin(M) (FH) (5*+10 +atk)  
Weapon: Expiration  
Special: Bonfire  
A: Steady Breath  
B: Bold Fighter 3  
S: Quickened Pulse  
 
Robin(M) (FH) (5*+10 +atk)  
Weapon: Expiration  
Special: Ignis  
A: Steady Breath  
B: Vengeful Fighter 3  
S: Close Def 3  
 
Robin(M) (FH) (5*+10 +atk)  
Weapon: Expiration  
Special: Glimmer  
A: Warding Breath  
B: Bold Fighter 3  
S: Attack 3  
 
Robin(F) (FV) (5*+10 +spd)  
Weapon: Expiration  
Special: Glimmer  
A: Dragonskin  
B: Guard 3  
S: Quick Riposte 3  
 
Fir (5*+10 +atk)  
Weapon: Nameless Blade  
Special: Moonbow  
A: Distant Counter  
B: Wrath 3  
S: Distant Def 3  
Upgrade Path: 5  
 
Fir (5*+10 +atk)  
Weapon: Nameless Blade  
Special: Iceberg  
A: Distant Counter  
B: Wrath 3  
S: Quickened Pulse  
Upgrade Path: 5  
 
Karel (5*+10 +atk)  
Weapon: Nameless Blade  
Special: Luna  
A: Distant Counter  
B: Wrath 3  
S: Quickened Pulse  
Upgrade Path: 5  
 
Ephraim (LL) (5*+10 +atk)  
Weapon: Flame Siegmund  
Special: Galeforce  
A: Death Blow 4  
S: Heavy Blade 3  
 
Olwen (WT) (5*+10 +atk)  
Weapon: Thunderhead  
Special: Glimmer  
A: Death Blow 4  
S: Heavy Blade 3  
 
Olwen (WT) (5*+10 +spd)  
Weapon: Thunderhead  
Special: Glimmer  
A: Swift Sparrow 2  
S: Heavy Blade 3  
 
Olwen (WT) (5*+10 +spd)  
Weapon: Thunderhead  
Special: Glimmer  
A: Fury 3  
S: Heavy Blade 3  
 
Leif (5*+10 +atk)  
Weapon: Light Brand  
Special: Luna  
A: Distant Counter  
B: S Drink  
S: Quickened Pulse  
 
Leif (5*+10 +atk)  
Weapon: Wo Dao+  
Special: Luna  
A: Distant Counter  
B: S Drink  
S: Quickened Pulse  
Upgrade Path: 1  
 
Leif (5*+10 +atk)  
Weapon: Slaying Edge+  
Special: Astra  
A: Distant Counter  
B: S Drink  
S: Quickened Pulse  
Upgrade Path: 1  
 
Leif (5*+10 +spd)  
Weapon: Wo Dao+  
Special: Luna  
A: Distant Counter  
B: S Drink  
S: Quickened Pulse  
Upgrade Path: 1  
 
Leif (5*+10 +atk)  
Weapon: Slaying Edge+  
Special: Luna  
A: Steady Breath  
B: S Drink  
S: Quick Riposte 3  
Upgrade Path: 1  
 
Reinhardt (WT) (5*+10 +atk)  
Weapon: Meisterschwert  
Special: Luna  
A: Distant Counter  
B: Swordbreaker 3  
S: Quickened Pulse  
 
Reinhardt (WT) (5*+10 +atk)  
Weapon: Meisterschwert  
Special: Moonbow  
A: Distant Counter  
B: Swordbreaker 3  
S: Distant Def 3  
 
Reinhardt (WT) (5*+10 +atk)  
Weapon: Meisterschwert  
Special: Moonbow  
A: Death Blow 4  
B: Swordbreaker 3  
S: Quickened Pulse  
 
Shigure (5*+10 +spd)  
Weapon: Firesweep Lance+  
Special: Luna  
A: Swift Sparrow 2  
S: Speed 3  
 
Kana(F) (5*+10 +atk)  
Weapon: Lightning Breath+  
Special: Bonfire  
A: Steady Breath  
B: Quick Riposte 3  
S: Speed 3  
Upgrade Path: 3  
 
Kana(F) (5*+10 +spd)  
Weapon: Lightning Breath+  
Special: Bonfire  
A: Steady Breath  
B: Quick Riposte 3  
S: Speed 3  
Upgrade Path: 3  
 
Hinoka (WF) (5*+10 +atk)  
Weapon: Warrior Princess  
Special: Luna  
A: Death Blow 4  
S: Attack 3  
 
Ishtar (5*+10 +atk -res)  
Weapon: Mjolnir  
Special: Glimmer  
A: Swift Sparrow 2  
S: Quickened Pulse  
 
Ryoma (SS) (5*+10 +spd)  
Weapon: Wo Dao+  
Special: Moonbow  
A: Distant Counter  
B: Bushido  
S: Quick Riposte 3  
Upgrade Path: 2  
 
Ryoma (SS) (5*+10 +spd)  
Weapon: Slaying Edge+  
Special: Glimmer  
A: Distant Counter  
B: Bushido  
S: Quick Riposte 3  
Upgrade Path: 2  
 
Ryoma (SS) (5*+10)  
Weapon: Brave Sword+  
Special: Moonbow  
A: Death Blow 4  
B: Bushido  
S: Heavy Blade 3  
 
Ryoma (SS) (5*+10 +atk)  
Weapon: Slaying Edge+  
Special: Glimmer  
A: Distant Counter  
B: Bushido  
S: Quickened Pulse  
Upgrade Path: 1  
 
Hector (Brave) (5*+10 +atk -spd)  
Weapon: Maltet  
Special: Ignis  
A: Ostian Counter  
B: Bold Fighter 3  
S: Close Def 3  
 
Hector (Brave) (5*+10 +def -spd)  
Weapon: Maltet  
Special: Bonfire  
A: Ostian Counter  
B: Special Fighter 3  
S: Close Def 3  
 
Hector (Brave) (5*+10 +atk -spd)  
Weapon: Maltet  
Special: Ignis  
A: Ostian Counter  
B: Bold Fighter 3  
S: Distant Def 3  
 
Hector (Brave) (5*+10 +def -spd)  
Weapon: Maltet  
Special: Bonfire  
A: Ostian Counter  
B: Special Fighter 3  
S: Distant Def 3  
 
Hector (Brave) (5*+10 +def -spd)  
Weapon: Maltet  
Special: Bonfire  
A: Ostian Counter  
B: Wary Fighter 3  
S: Quick Riposte 3  
 
Ephraim (Brave) (5*+10 +atk -res)  
Weapon: Garm  
Special: Ignis  
A: Distant Counter  
B: Special Fighter 3  
S: Close Def 3  
 
Ephraim (Brave) (5*+10 +atk -res)  
Weapon: Garm  
Special: Ignis  
A: Distant Counter  
B: Special Fighter 3  
S: Distant Def 3  
 
Celica (Brave) (5*+10 +atk -res)  
Weapon: Royal Sword  
Special: Luna  
A: Death Blow 4  
B: Double Lion  
S: Quickened Pulse  
 
Celica (Brave) (5*+10 +atk -res)  
Weapon: Wo Dao+  
Special: Moonbow  
A: Death Blow 4  
B: Double Lion  
S: Quickened Pulse  
 
Celica (Brave) (5*+10 +spd -res)  
Weapon: Royal Sword  
Special: Luna  
A: Distant Counter  
S: Distant Def 3  
 
Celica (Brave) (5*+10 +atk -res)  
Weapon: Armorsmasher+  
Special: Moonbow  
A: Steady Breath  
B: Double Lion  
S: Quick Riposte 3  
Upgrade Path: 3  
 
Hector (MO) (5*+10 +atk -res)  
Weapon: Thunder Armads  
Special: Bonfire  
A: Distant Counter  
B: Vengeful Fighter 3  
S: Close Def 3  
 
Hector (MO) (5*+10 +atk -spd)  
Weapon: Thunder Armads  
Special: Bonfire  
A: Distant Counter  
B: Vengeful Fighter 3  
S: Distant Def 3  
 
Hector (MO) (5*+10 +atk -res)  
Weapon: Thunder Armads  
Special: Bonfire  
A: Distant Counter  
B: Bold Fighter 3  
S: Quick Riposte 3  
 
Hector (MO) (5*+10 +atk -spd)  
Weapon: Thunder Armads  
Special: Bonfire  
A: Distant Counter  
B: Special Fighter 3  
S: Quick Riposte 3  
 
Hector (MO) (5*+10 +atk -spd)  
Weapon: Brave Axe+  
Special: Ignis  
A: Death Blow 4  
B: Bold Fighter 3  
S: Attack 3  
 
Tiki(Y) (5*+10 +spd -res)  
Special: Ignis  
A: Distant Counter  
B: Quick Riposte 3  
S: Distant Def 3  
 
Tiki(Y) (5*+10 +spd -res)  
Special: Glimmer  
A: Swift Sparrow 2  
B: Quick Riposte 3  
S: Close Def 3  
 
Lyn (LA) (5*+10 +spd -res)  
Weapon: Blarblade+  
Special: Glacies  
A: Close Counter  
B: Special Fighter 3  
S: Close Def 3  
 
Amelia (5*+10 +spd -res)  
Weapon: Slaying Axe+  
Special: Bonfire  
A: Distant Counter  
B: Special Fighter 3  
S: Close Def 3  
Upgrade Path: 3  
 
Amelia (5*+10 +spd -res)  
Weapon: Slaying Axe+  
Special: Bonfire  
A: Distant Counter  
B: Special Fighter 3  
S: Distant Def 3  
Upgrade Path: 3  
 
Zelgius (5*+10 +atk -res)  
Weapon: Slaying Edge+  
Special: Black Luna  
A: Distant Counter  
B: Special Fighter 3  
Upgrade Path: 2  
 
Karla (5*+10 +atk -res)  
Weapon: Vassal's Blade  
Special: Moonbow  
A: Distant Counter  
B: Wrath 3  
S: Distant Def 3  
 
Karla (5*+10 +atk -res)  
Weapon: Vassal's Blade  
Special: Draconic Aura  
A: Swift Sparrow 2  
B: Wrath 3  
S: Attack 3  
 
Karla (5*+10 +atk -res)  
Weapon: Vassal's Blade  
Special: Draconic Aura  
A: Death Blow 4  
B: Wrath 3  
S: Attack 3 

 

[JSND Alter Dragon Boner]

19 minutes ago, XRay said:

Why would omnibreaker not be considered optimal, or at least one of the optimal options? While he does not do as well against hard list enemies, he does survive a bit more.

Hector [+Atk, -Spd] Wary Fighter-Quick Riposte
Enemy Phase [+Atk] 190:13:99
Enemy Phase [+Spd] 192:8:102
Enemy Phase [+Atk, no red] 174:2:32
Enemy Phase [+Spd, no red] 174:1:33
Enemy Phase [hard list+10] 59:39:124

Hector [+Def, -Spd] Special Fighter-Close Def
Enemy Phase [+Atk] 197:77:28
Enemy Phase [+Spd] 207:60:35
Enemy Phase [+Atk, no red] 161:32:15
Enemy Phase [+Spd, no red] 166:27:15
Enemy Phase [hard list+10] 95:71:56

Hectors@

  Reveal hidden contents

CHALLENGER LIST  
Hector (5* +atk -spd)  
Weapon: Armads  
Special: Moonbow  
A: Distant Counter  
B: Wary Fighter 3  
C: Goad Armor  
S: Quick Riposte 3  
 
Hector (5* +def -spd)  
Weapon: Armads  
Special: Ignis  
A: Distant Counter  
B: Special Fighter 3  
C: Goad Armor  
S: Close Def 3 

Full Lists

  Reveal hidden contents

ENEMIES - FILTERED FULL LIST  
Include: melee, ranged, red, blue, green, gray, physical, magical, infantry, cavalry, flying, armored, staff, nonstaff  
Rarity: 5*  
Merge: +5  
Boon: +atk  
Special: Moonbow  
Replace Special: true  
A: Fury 3  
Replace A: true  

— — — — — — —

ENEMIES - FILTERED FULL LIST  
Include: melee, ranged, blue, green, gray, physical, magical, infantry, cavalry, flying, armored, staff, nonstaff  
Rarity: 5*  
Merge: +5  
Boon: +atk  
Special: Moonbow  
Replace Special: true  
A: Fury 3  
Replace A: true  

— — — — — — —

ENEMIES - FILTERED FULL LIST  
Include: melee, ranged, red, blue, green, gray, physical, magical, infantry, cavalry, flying, armored, staff, nonstaff  
Rarity: 5*  
Merge: +5  
Boon: +spd  
Special: Moonbow  
Replace Special: true  
A: Fury 3  
Replace A: true  

— — — — — — —

ENEMIES - FILTERED FULL LIST  
Include: melee, ranged, blue, green, gray, physical, magical, infantry, cavalry, flying, armored, staff, nonstaff  
Rarity: 5*  
Merge: +5  
Boon: +spd  
Special: Moonbow  
Replace Special: true  
A: Fury 3  
Replace A: true 

Hard List +10

  Reveal hidden contents

ENEMIES - CUSTOM LIST  
Beruka (5*+10 +def)  
Weapon: Slaying Axe+  
Special: Ignis  
A: Distant Counter  
S: Distant Def 3  
Upgrade Path: 3  
 
Caeda (5*+10 +atk)  
Weapon: Wing Sword  
Special: Iceberg  
A: Distant Counter  
B: Quick Riposte 3  
S: Distant Def 3  
Upgrade Path: 5  
 
Caeda (5*+10 +atk)  
Weapon: Wing Sword  
Special: Iceberg  
A: Swift Sparrow 2  
B: Guard 3  
S: Speed 3  
Upgrade Path: 5  
 
Camilla (5*+10 +spd)  
Weapon: Slaying Axe+  
Special: Moonbow  
A: Distant Counter  
B: Quick Riposte 3  
S: Distant Def 3  
Upgrade Path: 2  
 
Camilla (5*+10 +spd)  
Weapon: Handbell+  
Special: Moonbow  
A: Distant Counter  
B: Quick Riposte 3  
S: Distant Def 3  
Upgrade Path: 2  
 
Camilla (5*+10 +spd)  
Weapon: Giant Spoon+  
Special: Moonbow  
A: Distant Counter  
B: Quick Riposte 3  
S: Distant Def 3  
Upgrade Path: 2  
 
Camilla (Spring) (5*+10 +atk)  
Weapon: Gronnblade+  
Special: Glimmer  
A: Death Blow 4  
S: Attack 3  
 
Camilla (Spring) (5*+10 +spd)  
Weapon: Gronnblade+  
Special: Moonbow  
A: Fury 3  
B: Windsweep 3  
 
Celica (5*+10 +spd)  
Weapon: Ragnarok  
Special: Luna  
A: Fury 3  
B: Swordbreaker 3  
 
Celica (5*+10 +spd)  
Weapon: Ragnarok  
Special: Luna  
A: Life and Death 3  
B: Swordbreaker 3  
 
Cherche (5*+10 +atk)  
Weapon: Brave Axe+  
Special: Luna  
A: Death Blow 4  
S: Attack 3  
 
Cherche (5*+10 +atk)  
Weapon: Brave Axe+  
Special: Bonfire  
A: Death Blow 4  
S: Attack 3  
 
Cordelia (5*+10 +atk)  
Weapon: Brave Lance+  
Special: Luna  
A: Death Blow 4  
S: Attack 3  
 
Cordelia (5*+10 +atk)  
Weapon: Brave Lance+  
Special: Luna  
A: Swift Sparrow 2  
S: Attack 3  
 
Cordelia (5*+10 +spd)  
Weapon: Firesweep Lance+  
Special: Luna  
A: Swift Sparrow 2  
S: Speed 3  
 
Cordelia (5*+10 +spd)  
Weapon: Firesweep Lance+  
Special: Luna  
A: Life and Death 3  
S: Speed 3  
 
Cordelia (Bride) (5*+10 +atk)  
Weapon: Brave Bow+  
Special: Luna  
A: Life and Death 3  
 
Cordelia (Bride) (5*+10 +atk)  
Weapon: Brave Bow+  
Special: Moonbow  
A: Death Blow 4  
 
Cordelia (Bride) (5*+10 +atk)  
Weapon: Brave Bow+  
Special: Moonbow  
A: Death Blow 4  
S: Quickened Pulse  
 
Cordelia (Bride) (5*+10 +spd)  
Weapon: Brave Bow+  
Special: Luna  
A: Life and Death 3  
 
Cordelia (Bride) (5*+10 +spd)  
Weapon: Firesweep Bow+  
Special: Luna  
A: Life and Death 3  
 
Corrin(F) (Summer) (5*+10 +atk)  
Weapon: Blarblade+  
Special: Moonbow  
A: Fury 3  
B: B Tomebreaker 3  
 
Corrin(F) (5*+10 +atk)  
Weapon: Lightning Breath+  
Special: Bonfire  
A: Steady Breath  
B: Quick Riposte 3  
S: Speed 3  
Upgrade Path: 3  
 
Corrin(F) (Summer) (5*+10 +spd)  
Weapon: Blarblade+  
Special: Moonbow  
A: Fury 3  
B: B Tomebreaker 3  
 
Delthea (5*+10 +atk)  
Weapon: Dark Aura  
Special: Moonbow  
A: Fury 3  
B: B Tomebreaker 3  
 
Delthea (5*+10 +atk)  
Weapon: Dark Aura  
Special: Moonbow  
A: Life and Death 3  
B: B Tomebreaker 3  
 
Dorcas (5*+10 +atk)  
Weapon: Stout Tomahawk  
Special: Glimmer  
A: Warding Breath  
B: Wrath 3  
S: Distant Def 3  
 
Draug (5*+10 +def)  
Weapon: Wo Dao+  
Special: Ignis  
A: Steady Breath  
B: Bold Fighter 3  
S: Quick Riposte 3  
Upgrade Path: 1  
 
Draug (5*+10 +atk)  
Weapon: Slaying Edge+  
Special: Glimmer  
A: Distant Counter  
B: Wrath 3  
Upgrade Path: 1  
 
Azura (5*+10 +spd)  
Weapon: Sapphire Lance+  
Special: Moonbow  
A: Fury 3  
C: Fortify Res 3  
 
Effie (5*+10 +atk)  
Weapon: Brave Lance+  
Special: Ignis  
A: Death Blow 4  
B: Bold Fighter 3  
S: Attack 3  
 
Effie (5*+10 +atk)  
Weapon: Tannenboom!+  
Special: Moonbow  
A: Distant Counter  
B: Wary Fighter 3  
S: Deflect Magic 3  
Upgrade Path: 4  
 
Effie (5*+10 +atk)  
Weapon: Slaying Lance+  
Special: Glimmer  
A: Distant Counter  
B: Wary Fighter 3  
S: Deflect Magic 3  
Upgrade Path: 4  
 
Effie (5*+10 +atk)  
Weapon: Berkut's Lance+  
Special: Glimmer  
A: Distant Counter  
B: Wary Fighter 3  
S: Close Def 3  
Upgrade Path: 4  
 
Effie (5*+10 +atk)  
Weapon: Slaying Lance+  
Special: Glimmer  
A: Distant Counter  
B: Wrath 3  
S: Deflect Magic 3  
Upgrade Path: 4  
 
Effie (5*+10 +atk)  
Weapon: Slaying Lance+  
Special: Glimmer  
A: Distant Counter  
B: Bold Fighter 3  
S: Quick Riposte 3  
Upgrade Path: 1  
 
Effie (5*+10 +atk)  
Weapon: Ridersbane+  
Special: Moonbow  
A: Distant Counter  
B: Wary Fighter 3  
S: Deflect Magic 3  
Upgrade Path: 5  
 
Effie (5*+10 +atk)  
Weapon: Slaying Lance+  
Special: Bonfire  
A: Distant Counter  
B: Wary Fighter 3  
S: Quickened Pulse  
 
Eldigan (5*+10 +atk)  
Weapon: Mystletainn  
Special: Bonfire  
A: Distant Counter  
B: Swordbreaker 3  
S: Quickened Pulse  
Upgrade Path: 5  
 
Elincia (5*+10 +atk)  
Weapon: Amiti  
Special: Luna  
A: Death Blow 4  
B: Swordbreaker 3  
 
Elincia (5*+10 +spd)  
Weapon: Amiti  
Special: Luna  
A: Death Blow 4  
B: Swordbreaker 3  
 
Elincia (5*+10 +spd)  
Weapon: Firesweep Sword+  
Special: Luna  
A: Swift Sparrow 2  
B: Swordbreaker 3  
 
Elise (5*+10 +atk)  
Weapon: Gravity+  
Special: Miracle  
A: Atk Spd 2  
B: Wrathful Staff 3  
Upgrade Path: 7  
 
Elise (5*+10 +atk)  
Weapon: Gravity+  
Special: Miracle  
A: Close Def 3  
B: Wrathful Staff 3  
S: Close Def 3  
Upgrade Path: 7  
 
Elise (Summer) (5*+10 +spd)  
Weapon: Gronnblade+  
Special: Moonbow  
A: Fury 3  
B: G Tomebreaker 3  
 
Ephraim (5*+10 +spd)  
Weapon: Siegmund  
Special: Moonbow  
A: Fury 3  
B: Quick Riposte 3  
Upgrade Path: 5  
 
Ephraim (5*+10 +atk)  
Weapon: Siegmund  
Special: Moonbow  
A: Death Blow 4  
B: Quick Riposte 3  
Upgrade Path: 5  
 
Fae (5*+10 +spd)  
Weapon: Lightning Breath+  
Special: Moonbow  
A: Fury 3  
B: G Tomebreaker 3  
S: Distant Def 3  
Upgrade Path: 2  
 
Fae (5*+10)  
Weapon: Lightning Breath+  
Special: Bonfire  
A: Steady Breath  
B: Quick Riposte 3  
Upgrade Path: 3  
 
Frederick (5*+10 +atk)  
Weapon: Brave Axe+  
Special: Luna  
A: Death Blow 4  
S: Attack 3  
 
Hector (5*+10 +atk)  
Weapon: Armads  
Special: Bonfire  
A: Distant Counter  
B: Wrath 3  
 
Hector (5*+10 +atk)  
Weapon: Armads  
Special: Glimmer  
A: Distant Counter  
B: Wary Fighter 3  
S: Quick Riposte 3  
 
Hector (5*+10 +spd)  
Weapon: Armads  
Special: Bonfire  
A: Distant Counter  
B: Wrath 3  
 
Hector (5*+10 +atk)  
Weapon: Armads  
Special: Bonfire  
A: Distant Counter  
B: Bold Fighter 3  
 
Ike (Brave) (5*+10 +spd)  
Weapon: Urvan  
Special: Aether  
A: Steady Breath  
B: Quick Riposte 3  
 
Ike (Brave) (5*+10 +spd)  
Weapon: Urvan  
Special: Bonfire  
A: Distant Counter  
B: Beorc's Blessing  
S: Quickened Pulse  
 
Ike (Brave) (5*+10 +spd)  
Weapon: Urvan  
Special: Ignis  
A: Steady Breath  
B: Quick Riposte 3  
S: Quickened Pulse  
 
Ike (Brave) (5*+10 +atk)  
Weapon: Urvan  
Special: Ignis  
A: Steady Breath  
B: Wrath 3  
S: Quickened Pulse  
 
Julia (5*+10 +spd)  
Weapon: Divine Naga  
Special: Moonbow  
A: Fury 3  
B: G Tomebreaker 3  
 
Katarina (5*+10 +spd)  
Weapon: Raudrblade+  
Special: Glimmer  
A: Fury 3  
B: Swordbreaker 3  
 
Katarina (5*+10 +spd)  
Weapon: Raudrblade+  
Special: Glimmer  
A: Life and Death 3  
B: Swordbreaker 3  
 
Morgan(M) (5*+10 +spd)  
Weapon: Raudrblade+  
Special: Glimmer  
A: Fury 3  
B: Swordbreaker 3  
 
Leo (5*+10 +atk)  
Weapon: Raudrblade+  
Special: Glimmer  
A: Fury 3  
B: R Tomebreaker 3  
 
Leon (5*+10 +atk)  
Weapon: Brave Bow+  
Special: Luna  
A: Death Blow 4  
 
Lilina (5*+10 +atk)  
Weapon: Forblaze  
Special: Glimmer  
A: Death Blow 4  
B: Swordbreaker 3  
S: Heavy Blade 3  
Upgrade Path: 5  
 
Linde (5*+10 +spd)  
Weapon: Blarblade+  
Special: Glimmer  
A: Fury 3  
B: B Tomebreaker 3  
 
Linde (5*+10 +spd)  
Weapon: Blarblade+  
Special: Glimmer  
A: Life and Death 3  
B: B Tomebreaker 3  
 
Lucina (5*+10 +spd)  
Weapon: Falchion  
Special: Moonbow  
A: Fury 3  
B: Wrath 3  
Upgrade Path: 5  
 
Lucina (Brave) (5*+10 +spd)  
Weapon: Geirskogul  
Special: Moonbow  
A: Fury 3  
B: Wrath 3  
 
Lyn (5*+10 +atk)  
Weapon: Sol Katti  
Special: Luna  
A: Fury 3  
B: Wrath 3  
S: Attack 3  
Upgrade Path: 5  
 
Lyn (Brave) (5*+10 +atk)  
Weapon: Brave Bow+  
Special: Moonbow  
A: Death Blow 4  
B: Sacae's Blessing  
S: Quickened Pulse  
 
Lyn (Brave) (5*+10 +atk)  
Weapon: Firesweep Bow+  
Special: Moonbow  
A: Swift Sparrow 2  
B: Cancel Affinity 3  
S: Deflect Magic 3  
 
Lyn (Brave) (5*+10 +atk)  
Weapon: Mulagir  
Special: Moonbow  
A: Swift Sparrow 2  
B: Sacae's Blessing  
S: Deflect Magic 3  
 
Minerva (5*+10 +atk)  
Weapon: Hauteclere  
Special: Glimmer  
A: Life and Death 3  
B: Quick Riposte 3  
Upgrade Path: 5  
 
Minerva (5*+10 +spd)  
Weapon: Hauteclere  
Special: Glimmer  
A: Fury 3  
B: Quick Riposte 3  
Upgrade Path: 5  
 
Minerva (5*+10 +spd)  
Weapon: Hauteclere  
Special: Luna  
A: Life and Death 3  
B: Quick Riposte 3  
Upgrade Path: 5  
 
Nino (5*+10 +spd)  
Weapon: Gronnblade+  
Special: Glimmer  
A: Fury 3  
B: G Tomebreaker 3  
 
Nino (5*+10 +spd)  
Weapon: Gronnblade+  
Special: Glimmer  
A: Life and Death 3  
B: G Tomebreaker 3  
 
Nowi (5*+10 +atk)  
Weapon: Lightning Breath+  
Special: Moonbow  
A: Fury 3  
B: Quick Riposte 3  
S: Distant Def 3  
Upgrade Path: 1  
 
Nowi (5*+10 +spd)  
Weapon: Lightning Breath+  
Special: Moonbow  
A: Fury 3  
B: Quick Riposte 3  
S: Distant Def 3  
Upgrade Path: 2  
 
Nowi (5*+10 +atk)  
Weapon: Lightning Breath+  
Special: Bonfire  
A: Steady Breath  
B: Quick Riposte 3  
S: Distant Def 3  
Upgrade Path: 3  
 
Nowi (5*+10 +atk)  
Weapon: Lightning Breath+  
Special: Bonfire  
A: Warding Breath  
B: Quick Riposte 3  
S: Distant Def 3  
Upgrade Path: 3  
 
Olwen (5*+10 +atk)  
Weapon: Blarblade+  
Special: Moonbow  
A: Life and Death 3  
B: Windsweep 3  
S: Phantom Spd 3  
 
Olwen (5*+10 +atk)  
Weapon: Dire Thunder  
Special: Luna  
A: Life and Death 3  
B: Windsweep 3  
S: Phantom Spd 3  
 
Reinhardt (5*+10 +atk)  
Weapon: Dire Thunder  
Special: Luna  
A: Swift Sparrow 2  
B: Watersweep 3  
S: Phantom Spd 3  
 
Reinhardt (5*+10 +atk)  
Weapon: Dire Thunder  
Special: Moonbow  
A: Death Blow 4  
S: Quickened Pulse  
 
Roy (Brave) (5*+10 +atk)  
Weapon: Blazing Durandal  
Special: Luna  
A: Swift Sparrow 2  
B: Swordbreaker 3  
 
Roy (Brave) (5*+10 +spd)  
Weapon: Blazing Durandal  
Special: Dragon Fang  
A: Fury 3  
B: Swordbreaker 3  
 
Roy (Brave) (5*+10 +spd)  
Weapon: Blazing Durandal  
Special: Luna  
A: Death Blow 4  
B: Swordbreaker 3  
 
Roy (Brave) (5*+10 +spd)  
Weapon: Blazing Durandal  
Special: Luna  
A: Swift Sparrow 2  
B: Swordbreaker 3  
 
Ryoma (5*+10 +spd)  
Weapon: Raijinto  
Special: Moonbow  
A: Fury 3  
B: Wrath 3  
S: Distant Def 3  
 
Ryoma (5*+10 +spd)  
Weapon: Raijinto  
Special: Glimmer  
A: Steady Breath  
B: Quick Riposte 3  
S: Distant Def 3  
 
Ryoma (5*+10 +spd)  
Weapon: Raijinto  
Special: Moonbow  
A: Fury 3  
B: Wrath 3  
S: Distant Def 3  
 
Ryoma (5*+10 +spd)  
Weapon: Raijinto  
Special: Moonbow  
A: Fury 3  
B: Quick Riposte 3  
S: Distant Def 3  
 
Sanaki (5*+10 +atk)  
Weapon: Raudrblade+  
Special: Glimmer  
A: Death Blow 4  
B: Swordbreaker 3  
 
Sanaki (5*+10 +spd)  
Weapon: Raudrblade+  
Special: Glimmer  
A: Fury 3  
B: Swordbreaker 3  
 
Sheena (5*+10 +atk)  
Weapon: Slaying Axe+  
Special: Glimmer  
A: Distant Counter  
B: Wrath 3  
S: Attack 3  
Upgrade Path: 1  
 
Sheena (5*+10 +atk)  
Weapon: Slaying Axe+  
Special: Ignis  
A: Distant Counter  
B: Vengeful Fighter 3  
S: Distant Def 3  
Upgrade Path: 1  
 
Tana (5*+10 +atk)  
Weapon: Brave Lance+  
Special: Luna  
A: Swift Sparrow 2  
 
Tana (5*+10 +spd)  
Weapon: Firesweep Lance+  
Special: Luna  
A: Swift Sparrow 2  
 
Tharja (5*+10 +spd)  
Weapon: Raudrblade+  
Special: Glimmer  
A: Fury 3  
B: Swordbreaker 3  
 
Tharja (5*+10 +spd)  
Weapon: Raudrblade+  
Special: Glimmer  
A: Life and Death 3  
B: Swordbreaker 3  
 
Tiki(Y) (5*+10 +spd)  
Weapon: Lightning Breath+  
Special: Moonbow  
A: Fury 3  
B: Quick Riposte 3  
S: Distant Def 3  
Upgrade Path: 2  
 
Tiki(Y) (5*+10 +spd)  
Weapon: Lightning Breath+  
Special: Bonfire  
A: Steady Breath  
B: Quick Riposte 3  
S: Distant Def 3  
Upgrade Path: 2  
 
Tiki(A) (5*+10 +atk)  
Weapon: Lightning Breath+  
Special: Moonbow  
A: Fury 3  
B: Quick Riposte 3  
S: Distant Def 3  
Upgrade Path: 1  
 
Tiki(A) (5*+10 +atk)  
Weapon: Lightning Breath+  
Special: Bonfire  
A: Steady Breath  
B: Quick Riposte 3  
S: Close Def 3  
Upgrade Path: 3  
 
Tiki(A) (5*+10 +atk)  
Weapon: Lightning Breath+  
Special: Bonfire  
A: Warding Breath  
B: Guard 3  
S: Quick Riposte 3  
Upgrade Path: 4  
 
Tiki(A) (5*+10 +res)  
Weapon: Lightning Breath+  
Special: Bonfire  
A: Warding Breath  
B: Quick Riposte 3  
S: Distant Def 3  
Upgrade Path: 4  
 
Titania (5*+10 +atk)  
Weapon: Emerald Axe+  
Special: Luna  
A: Distant Counter  
B: G Tomebreaker 3  
 
Zephiel (5*+10)  
Weapon: Slaying Edge+  
Special: Glimmer  
A: Distant Counter  
B: Wary Fighter 3  
S: Distant Def 3  
Upgrade Path: 1  
 
Sigurd (5*+10 +atk)  
Weapon: Slaying Edge  
Special: Glimmer  
A: Distant Counter  
B: Quick Riposte 3  
S: Distant Def 3  
 
Sigurd (5*+10 +atk)  
Weapon: Divine Tyrfing  
Special: Bonfire  
A: Distant Counter  
B: Crusader's Ward  
S: Close Def 3  
 
Deirdre (5*+10 +spd)  
Weapon: Divine Naga  
Special: Moonbow  
A: Fury 3  
B: Quick Riposte 3  
 
Ayra (5*+10 +spd)  
Weapon: Slaying Edge+  
Special: Regnal Astra  
A: Swift Sparrow 2  
B: Wrath 3  
S: Quickened Pulse  
Upgrade Path: 1  
 
Ayra (5*+10 +atk)  
Weapon: Slaying Edge+  
Special: Regnal Astra  
A: Swift Sparrow 2  
B: Wrath 3  
S: Quickened Pulse  
Upgrade Path: 1  
 
Ayra (5*+10 +spd)  
Weapon: Slaying Edge+  
Special: Regnal Astra  
A: Distant Counter  
B: Wrath 3  
S: Attack 3  
Upgrade Path: 1  
 
Ayra (5*+10 +atk)  
Weapon: Slaying Edge+  
Special: Regnal Astra  
A: Distant Counter  
B: Wrath 3  
S: Attack 3  
Upgrade Path: 1  
 
Arden (5*+10)  
Weapon: Slaying Edge+  
Special: Bonfire  
A: Distant Counter  
B: Follow-Up Ring  
S: Quickened Pulse  
Upgrade Path: 1  
 
Arden (5*+10)  
Weapon: Slaying Edge+  
Special: Moonbow  
A: Distant Counter  
B: Follow-Up Ring  
Upgrade Path: 1  
 
Arden (5*+10)  
Weapon: Brave Sword+  
Special: Ignis  
A: Death Blow 4  
B: Follow-Up Ring  
S: Attack 3  
 
Jakob (TOD) (5*+10 +atk)  
Weapon: Slaying Bow+  
Special: Glimmer  
A: Close Counter  
B: Wary Fighter 3  
S: Distant Def 3  
 
Jakob (TOD) (5*+10 +atk)  
Weapon: Guard Bow+  
Special: Ignis  
A: Close Counter  
B: Vengeful Fighter 3  
S: Distant Def 3  
Upgrade Path: 3  
 
Jakob (TOD) (5*+10 +atk)  
Weapon: Slaying Bow+  
Special: Bonfire  
A: Death Blow 4  
B: Bold Fighter 3  
S: Attack 3  
 
Jakob (TOD) (5*+10 +atk)  
Weapon: Brave Bow+  
Special: Ignis  
A: Death Blow 4  
B: Bold Fighter 3  
S: Attack 3  
 
Jakob (TOD) (5*+10 +atk)  
Weapon: Brave Bow+  
Special: Bonfire  
A: Death Blow 4  
B: Bold Fighter 3  
S: Quickened Pulse  
 
Henry (TOD) (5*+10 +atk)  
Weapon: Gronnblade+  
Special: Glimmer  
A: Death Blow 4  
B: Bold Fighter 3  
 
Nowi (TOD) (5*+10 +spd)  
Weapon: Raudrblade+  
Special: Moonbow  
A: Swift Sparrow 2  
B: Windsweep 3  
S: Phantom Spd 3  
 
Mia (5*+10 +spd)  
Weapon: Resolute Blade  
Special: Luna  
A: Flashing Blade 3  
B: Wrath 3  
 
Mia (5*+10 +spd)  
Weapon: Resolute Blade  
Special: Moonbow  
A: Distant Counter  
B: Wrath 3  
S: Quickened Pulse  
 
Dorcas (5*+10 +atk)  
Weapon: Stout Tomahawk  
Special: Glimmer  
A: Steady Breath  
B: Wrath 3  
S: Distant Def 3  
 
Siegbert (5*+10 +atk)  
Weapon: Dark Greatsword  
Special: Moonbow  
A: Swift Sparrow 2  
B: Swordbreaker 3  
 
Siegbert (5*+10 +atk)  
Weapon: Dark Greatsword  
Special: Moonbow  
A: Heavy Blade 3  
B: Swordbreaker 3  
 
Siegbert (5*+10 +spd)  
Weapon: Dark Greatsword  
Special: Moonbow  
A: Fury 3  
B: Swordbreaker 3  
 
Siegbert (5*+10 +spd)  
Weapon: Dark Greatsword  
Special: Moonbow  
A: Death Blow 4  
B: Swordbreaker 3  
 
Siegbert (5*+10 +spd)  
Weapon: Dark Greatsword  
Special: Moonbow  
A: Swift Sparrow 2  
B: Swordbreaker 3  
 
Chrom (WE) (5*+10 +atk)  
Weapon: Slaying Axe+  
Special: Glimmer  
A: Distant Counter  
B: Vengeful Fighter 3  
S: Distant Def 3  
Upgrade Path: 1  
 
Chrom (WE) (5*+10 +atk)  
Weapon: Slaying Axe+  
Special: Glimmer  
A: Distant Counter  
B: Wrath 3  
S: Distant Def 3  
Upgrade Path: 1  
 
Chrom (WE) (5*+10 +atk)  
Weapon: Brave Axe+  
Special: Ignis  
A: Death Blow 4  
B: Bold Fighter 3  
S: Attack 3  
 
Lissa (WE) (5*+10 +atk)  
Weapon: Slaying Axe+  
Special: Glimmer  
A: Distant Counter  
B: Wrath 3  
S: Distant Def 3  
Upgrade Path: 1  
 
Lissa (WE) (5*+10 +atk)  
Weapon: Slaying Axe+  
Special: Ignis  
A: Death Blow 4  
B: Bold Fighter 3  
S: Attack 3  
Upgrade Path: 1  
 
Robin(M) (WE) (5*+10 +atk)  
Weapon: Brave Lance+  
Special: Ignis  
A: Death Blow 4  
B: Bold Fighter 3  
S: Attack 3  
 
Robin(M) (WE) (5*+10 +atk)  
Weapon: Slaying Lance+  
Special: Glimmer  
A: Distant Counter  
B: Wrath 3  
Upgrade Path: 1  
 
Robin(M) (WE) (5*+10 +atk)  
Weapon: Slaying Lance+  
Special: Bonfire  
A: Death Blow 4  
B: Bold Fighter 3  
Upgrade Path: 1  
 
Tharja (WE) (5*+10 +def)  
Weapon: Candelabra+  
Special: Ignis  
A: Close Counter  
B: Vengeful Fighter 3  
S: Close Def 3  
Upgrade Path: 3  
 
Tharja (WE) (5*+10 +atk)  
Weapon: Raudrblade+  
Special: Glimmer  
A: Death Blow 4  
B: Bold Fighter 3  
S: Attack 3  
 
Zelgius (5*+10 +atk)  
Weapon: Alondite  
Special: Black Luna  
A: Steady Breath  
B: Vengeful Fighter 3  
S: Quickened Pulse  
 
Zelgius (5*+10 +atk)  
Weapon: Alondite  
Special: Black Luna  
A: Steady Breath  
B: Wrath 3  
S: Quickened Pulse  
 
Zelgius (5*+10 +atk)  
Weapon: Slaying Edge+  
Special: Black Luna  
A: Steady Breath  
B: Bold Fighter 3  
S: Quick Riposte 3  
Upgrade Path: 1  
 
Zelgius (5*+10 +atk)  
Weapon: Alondite  
Special: Black Luna  
A: Steady Breath  
B: Bold Fighter 3  
S: Quick Riposte 3  
 
Zelgius (5*+10 +atk)  
Weapon: Brave Sword+  
Special: Black Luna  
A: Death Blow 4  
B: Bold Fighter 3  
S: Quickened Pulse  
 
Myrrh (5*+10 +def)  
Weapon: Great Flame  
Special: Glimmer  
A: Distant Counter  
B: Quick Riposte 3  
S: Close Def 3  
 
Myrrh (5*+10 +def)  
Weapon: Great Flame  
Special: Glimmer  
A: Distant Counter  
B: Quick Riposte 3  
S: Iote's Shield  
 
Myrrh (5*+10 +def)  
Weapon: Great Flame  
Special: Glimmer  
A: Fury 3  
B: Quick Riposte 3  
S: Close Def 3  
 
Ike (VL) (5*+10 +atk)  
Weapon: Ragnell  
Special: Glimmer  
A: Warding Breath  
B: Wrath 3  
S: Quick Riposte 3  
 
Ike (VL) (5*+10 +atk)  
Weapon: Ragnell  
Special: Radiant Aether  
A: Steady Breath  
B: Quick Riposte 3  
S: Close Def 3  
 
Ike (VL) (5*+10 +atk)  
Weapon: Ragnell  
Special: Glimmer  
A: Warding Breath  
B: Wrath 3  
S: Quick Riposte 3  
 
Lyn (LA) (5*+10 +atk)  
Weapon: Blarblade+  
Special: Glimmer  
A: Death Blow 4  
B: Bold Fighter 3  
S: Attack 3  
 
Hector (LA) (5*+10 +atk)  
Weapon: Berserk Armads  
Special: Glimmer  
A: Distant Counter  
B: Wrath 3  
S: Distant Def 3  
 
Hector (LA) (5*+10 +atk)  
Weapon: Berserk Armads  
Special: Glimmer  
A: Distant Counter  
B: Bold Fighter 3  
S: Distant Def 3  
 
Hector (LA) (5*+10 +atk)  
Weapon: Berserk Armads  
Special: Glimmer  
A: Distant Counter  
B: Wary Fighter 3  
S: Distant Def 3  
 
Hector (LA) (5*+10 +atk)  
Weapon: Berserk Armads  
Special: Bonfire  
A: Distant Counter  
B: Bold Fighter 3  
S: Distant Def 3  
 
Hector (LA) (5*+10 +atk)  
Weapon: Berserk Armads  
Special: Glimmer  
A: Distant Counter  
B: Vengeful Fighter 3  
S: Distant Def 3  
 
Hector (LA) (5*+10 +atk)  
Weapon: Berserk Armads  
Special: Bonfire  
A: Distant Counter  
S: Quickened Pulse  
 
Hector (LA) (5*+10 +atk)  
Weapon: Berserk Armads  
Special: Bonfire  
A: Distant Counter  
B: Wrath 3  
S: Quickened Pulse  
 
Alm (5*+10 +atk)  
Weapon: Falchion  
Special: Moonbow  
A: Death Blow 4  
S: Heavy Blade 3  
Upgrade Path: 5  
 
Hardin (FH) (5*+10 +atk)  
Weapon: Gradivus  
Special: Glimmer  
A: Warding Breath  
B: Bold Fighter 3  
S: Distant Def 3  
 
Hardin (FH) (5*+10 +atk)  
Weapon: Gradivus  
Special: Glimmer  
A: Steady Breath  
B: Bold Fighter 3  
S: Distant Def 3  
 
Hardin (FH) (5*+10 +atk)  
Weapon: Gradivus  
Special: Glimmer  
A: Warding Breath  
S: Quickened Pulse  
 
Robin(M) (FH) (5*+10 +atk)  
Weapon: Expiration  
Special: Glimmer  
A: Warding Breath  
B: Bold Fighter 3  
S: Distant Def 3  
 
Robin(M) (FH) (5*+10 +atk)  
Weapon: Expiration  
Special: Bonfire  
A: Steady Breath  
B: Bold Fighter 3  
S: Quickened Pulse  
 
Robin(M) (FH) (5*+10 +atk)  
Weapon: Expiration  
Special: Ignis  
A: Steady Breath  
B: Vengeful Fighter 3  
S: Close Def 3  
 
Robin(M) (FH) (5*+10 +atk)  
Weapon: Expiration  
Special: Glimmer  
A: Warding Breath  
B: Bold Fighter 3  
S: Attack 3  
 
Robin(F) (FV) (5*+10 +spd)  
Weapon: Expiration  
Special: Glimmer  
A: Dragonskin  
B: Guard 3  
S: Quick Riposte 3  
 
Fir (5*+10 +atk)  
Weapon: Nameless Blade  
Special: Moonbow  
A: Distant Counter  
B: Wrath 3  
S: Distant Def 3  
Upgrade Path: 5  
 
Fir (5*+10 +atk)  
Weapon: Nameless Blade  
Special: Iceberg  
A: Distant Counter  
B: Wrath 3  
S: Quickened Pulse  
Upgrade Path: 5  
 
Karel (5*+10 +atk)  
Weapon: Nameless Blade  
Special: Luna  
A: Distant Counter  
B: Wrath 3  
S: Quickened Pulse  
Upgrade Path: 5  
 
Ephraim (LL) (5*+10 +atk)  
Weapon: Flame Siegmund  
Special: Galeforce  
A: Death Blow 4  
S: Heavy Blade 3  
 
Olwen (WT) (5*+10 +atk)  
Weapon: Thunderhead  
Special: Glimmer  
A: Death Blow 4  
S: Heavy Blade 3  
 
Olwen (WT) (5*+10 +spd)  
Weapon: Thunderhead  
Special: Glimmer  
A: Swift Sparrow 2  
S: Heavy Blade 3  
 
Olwen (WT) (5*+10 +spd)  
Weapon: Thunderhead  
Special: Glimmer  
A: Fury 3  
S: Heavy Blade 3  
 
Leif (5*+10 +atk)  
Weapon: Light Brand  
Special: Luna  
A: Distant Counter  
B: S Drink  
S: Quickened Pulse  
 
Leif (5*+10 +atk)  
Weapon: Wo Dao+  
Special: Luna  
A: Distant Counter  
B: S Drink  
S: Quickened Pulse  
Upgrade Path: 1  
 
Leif (5*+10 +atk)  
Weapon: Slaying Edge+  
Special: Astra  
A: Distant Counter  
B: S Drink  
S: Quickened Pulse  
Upgrade Path: 1  
 
Leif (5*+10 +spd)  
Weapon: Wo Dao+  
Special: Luna  
A: Distant Counter  
B: S Drink  
S: Quickened Pulse  
Upgrade Path: 1  
 
Leif (5*+10 +atk)  
Weapon: Slaying Edge+  
Special: Luna  
A: Steady Breath  
B: S Drink  
S: Quick Riposte 3  
Upgrade Path: 1  
 
Reinhardt (WT) (5*+10 +atk)  
Weapon: Meisterschwert  
Special: Luna  
A: Distant Counter  
B: Swordbreaker 3  
S: Quickened Pulse  
 
Reinhardt (WT) (5*+10 +atk)  
Weapon: Meisterschwert  
Special: Moonbow  
A: Distant Counter  
B: Swordbreaker 3  
S: Distant Def 3  
 
Reinhardt (WT) (5*+10 +atk)  
Weapon: Meisterschwert  
Special: Moonbow  
A: Death Blow 4  
B: Swordbreaker 3  
S: Quickened Pulse  
 
Shigure (5*+10 +spd)  
Weapon: Firesweep Lance+  
Special: Luna  
A: Swift Sparrow 2  
S: Speed 3  
 
Kana(F) (5*+10 +atk)  
Weapon: Lightning Breath+  
Special: Bonfire  
A: Steady Breath  
B: Quick Riposte 3  
S: Speed 3  
Upgrade Path: 3  
 
Kana(F) (5*+10 +spd)  
Weapon: Lightning Breath+  
Special: Bonfire  
A: Steady Breath  
B: Quick Riposte 3  
S: Speed 3  
Upgrade Path: 3  
 
Hinoka (WF) (5*+10 +atk)  
Weapon: Warrior Princess  
Special: Luna  
A: Death Blow 4  
S: Attack 3  
 
Ishtar (5*+10 +atk -res)  
Weapon: Mjolnir  
Special: Glimmer  
A: Swift Sparrow 2  
S: Quickened Pulse  
 
Ryoma (SS) (5*+10 +spd)  
Weapon: Wo Dao+  
Special: Moonbow  
A: Distant Counter  
B: Bushido  
S: Quick Riposte 3  
Upgrade Path: 2  
 
Ryoma (SS) (5*+10 +spd)  
Weapon: Slaying Edge+  
Special: Glimmer  
A: Distant Counter  
B: Bushido  
S: Quick Riposte 3  
Upgrade Path: 2  
 
Ryoma (SS) (5*+10)  
Weapon: Brave Sword+  
Special: Moonbow  
A: Death Blow 4  
B: Bushido  
S: Heavy Blade 3  
 
Ryoma (SS) (5*+10 +atk)  
Weapon: Slaying Edge+  
Special: Glimmer  
A: Distant Counter  
B: Bushido  
S: Quickened Pulse  
Upgrade Path: 1  
 
Hector (Brave) (5*+10 +atk -spd)  
Weapon: Maltet  
Special: Ignis  
A: Ostian Counter  
B: Bold Fighter 3  
S: Close Def 3  
 
Hector (Brave) (5*+10 +def -spd)  
Weapon: Maltet  
Special: Bonfire  
A: Ostian Counter  
B: Special Fighter 3  
S: Close Def 3  
 
Hector (Brave) (5*+10 +atk -spd)  
Weapon: Maltet  
Special: Ignis  
A: Ostian Counter  
B: Bold Fighter 3  
S: Distant Def 3  
 
Hector (Brave) (5*+10 +def -spd)  
Weapon: Maltet  
Special: Bonfire  
A: Ostian Counter  
B: Special Fighter 3  
S: Distant Def 3  
 
Hector (Brave) (5*+10 +def -spd)  
Weapon: Maltet  
Special: Bonfire  
A: Ostian Counter  
B: Wary Fighter 3  
S: Quick Riposte 3  
 
Ephraim (Brave) (5*+10 +atk -res)  
Weapon: Garm  
Special: Ignis  
A: Distant Counter  
B: Special Fighter 3  
S: Close Def 3  
 
Ephraim (Brave) (5*+10 +atk -res)  
Weapon: Garm  
Special: Ignis  
A: Distant Counter  
B: Special Fighter 3  
S: Distant Def 3  
 
Celica (Brave) (5*+10 +atk -res)  
Weapon: Royal Sword  
Special: Luna  
A: Death Blow 4  
B: Double Lion  
S: Quickened Pulse  
 
Celica (Brave) (5*+10 +atk -res)  
Weapon: Wo Dao+  
Special: Moonbow  
A: Death Blow 4  
B: Double Lion  
S: Quickened Pulse  
 
Celica (Brave) (5*+10 +spd -res)  
Weapon: Royal Sword  
Special: Luna  
A: Distant Counter  
S: Distant Def 3  
 
Celica (Brave) (5*+10 +atk -res)  
Weapon: Armorsmasher+  
Special: Moonbow  
A: Steady Breath  
B: Double Lion  
S: Quick Riposte 3  
Upgrade Path: 3  
 
Hector (MO) (5*+10 +atk -res)  
Weapon: Thunder Armads  
Special: Bonfire  
A: Distant Counter  
B: Vengeful Fighter 3  
S: Close Def 3  
 
Hector (MO) (5*+10 +atk -spd)  
Weapon: Thunder Armads  
Special: Bonfire  
A: Distant Counter  
B: Vengeful Fighter 3  
S: Distant Def 3  
 
Hector (MO) (5*+10 +atk -res)  
Weapon: Thunder Armads  
Special: Bonfire  
A: Distant Counter  
B: Bold Fighter 3  
S: Quick Riposte 3  
 
Hector (MO) (5*+10 +atk -spd)  
Weapon: Thunder Armads  
Special: Bonfire  
A: Distant Counter  
B: Special Fighter 3  
S: Quick Riposte 3  
 
Hector (MO) (5*+10 +atk -spd)  
Weapon: Brave Axe+  
Special: Ignis  
A: Death Blow 4  
B: Bold Fighter 3  
S: Attack 3  
 
Tiki(Y) (5*+10 +spd -res)  
Special: Ignis  
A: Distant Counter  
B: Quick Riposte 3  
S: Distant Def 3  
 
Tiki(Y) (5*+10 +spd -res)  
Special: Glimmer  
A: Swift Sparrow 2  
B: Quick Riposte 3  
S: Close Def 3  
 
Lyn (LA) (5*+10 +spd -res)  
Weapon: Blarblade+  
Special: Glacies  
A: Close Counter  
B: Special Fighter 3  
S: Close Def 3  
 
Amelia (5*+10 +spd -res)  
Weapon: Slaying Axe+  
Special: Bonfire  
A: Distant Counter  
B: Special Fighter 3  
S: Close Def 3  
Upgrade Path: 3  
 
Amelia (5*+10 +spd -res)  
Weapon: Slaying Axe+  
Special: Bonfire  
A: Distant Counter  
B: Special Fighter 3  
S: Distant Def 3  
Upgrade Path: 3  
 
Zelgius (5*+10 +atk -res)  
Weapon: Slaying Edge+  
Special: Black Luna  
A: Distant Counter  
B: Special Fighter 3  
Upgrade Path: 2  
 
Karla (5*+10 +atk -res)  
Weapon: Vassal's Blade  
Special: Moonbow  
A: Distant Counter  
B: Wrath 3  
S: Distant Def 3  
 
Karla (5*+10 +atk -res)  
Weapon: Vassal's Blade  
Special: Draconic Aura  
A: Swift Sparrow 2  
B: Wrath 3  
S: Attack 3  
 
Karla (5*+10 +atk -res)  
Weapon: Vassal's Blade  
Special: Draconic Aura  
A: Death Blow 4  
B: Wrath 3  
S: Attack 3 

 

@Ice Dragon considered Berserk Armads to be the very best weapon in the game(offensively or not idk)

[Ice Dragon]

7 minutes ago, Alkaid said:

Sure they come with extra skill goodies, as expected, but you said the same old slow and bulky statline was an issue, which evidently it's not.

It is an issue because every single unit since the Winter banner with the slow and bulky stat line has something else that makes them remarkable and worth pulling for. Even if you include the slow non-limited armors, Hardin and Grima, you still have Hardin with a Distant Counter weapon by default and Grima with a novel weapon type. (And Eliwood being a freebie has an excuse to be more generic, though he's not all that slow.)

We originally got into this line of discussion from why Wallace and Oswin are unlikely to be added, and that's because it's unlikely that they will have that something else that makes them remarkable. The problem is not that Wallace and Oswin will be slow and bulky lances, it's that they will be slow and bulky lances with nothing else to set them apart.

 

17 minutes ago, Alkaid said:

Surely you see plenty of armors too.

I'm in the score range where armors and Duel units are the only ones that can be worth enough points to score that high, so yes. However, the moment I switch to my alt team (which is what I use for Voting Gauntlet and Grand Conquest quests and whatnot), which scores in the 736-744 range, there's a very broad smattering of enemies (including Reinhardt, Brave Lyn, and Veronica). And that's a score range that doesn't need Duel skills to see that kind of diversity.

 

2 minutes ago, JSND Alter Dragon Boner said:

@Ice Dragon considered Berserk Armads to be the very best weapon in the game(offensively or not idk)

@XRay

Offensively, yes. By my opinion, Berserk Armads is hands down the strongest weapon in the game.

Weapons that come close, either in a vacuum or with their user considered, are Garm (the most lenient follow-up condition in the game), Maltet, Vassal's Blade, Exalted Falchion, Niu, Nameless Blade, and Hauteclere.

Thunder Armads is the strongest defensive weapon in the game with Berkut's Lance+ and Great Flame vying for second.

[JSND Alter Dragon Boner]

@Ice Dragon No Levatinn? Whats the deal with Niu that make it the strongest?

IIRC Maltet is QR and Killer?

Also iirc Exalted is Sieglinde + Dracoslayer and SPD instead of HP?

Edited October 10, 2018 by JSND Alter Dragon Boner

[Ice Dragon]

4 minutes ago, JSND Alter Dragon Boner said:

@Ice Dragon No Levatinn? Whats the deal with Niu that make it the strongest?

IIRC Maltet is QR and Killer?

Also iirc Exalted is Sieglinde + Dracoslayer and SPD instead of HP?

Laevatein is just another Litrblade, which isn't overly spectacular these days. Best one-hit nuke, but that's really it. At least Dull Close is still rare.

Niu is situational, but it's the fact that it becomes stronger faster than the opponent does when the opponent has buffs. It's the only weapon in the game where I do my simulations against unbuffed opponents because that's the situation where it is at its weakest. And the opponent can't negate the effect with Dull Close (and is too dumb to not Rally everything it sees).

Maltet is Killer weapon with Quick Riposte 5. Considering it's on an armor, it's stupid powerful.

Exalted Falchion is the reverse of Sieglinde. Instead of receiving a combat buff based on the buffs that allies have, it receives a combat buff based on the buffs that the unit has. Basically, all field buffs are counted double. It's actually like Litrblade, but with each buff adding a second time to its original stat instead of all to Atk.

[XRay]

16 minutes ago, Ice Dragon said:

Berserk Armads is hands down the strongest weapon in the game.

Took me a while to figure out how make to Berserk Armads to work better than regular Armads. Is this the build you are referring to?

Hector [+Def, -Spd] Berserk Armads
Enemy Phase [+Atk] 229:60:13
Enemy Phase [+Spd] 234:54:14
Enemy Phase [+Atk, no red] 192:7:9
Enemy Phase [+Spd, no red] 189:8:11
Enemy Phase [hard list+10] 100:84:38

Comparison:

53 minutes ago, XRay said:

Hector [+Atk, -Spd] Wary Fighter-Quick Riposte
Enemy Phase [+Atk] 190:13:99
Enemy Phase [+Spd] 192:8:102
Enemy Phase [+Atk, no red] 174:2:32
Enemy Phase [+Spd, no red] 174:1:33
Enemy Phase [hard list+10] 59:39:124

Hector [+Def, -Spd] Special Fighter-Close Def
Enemy Phase [+Atk] 197:77:28
Enemy Phase [+Spd] 207:60:35
Enemy Phase [+Atk, no red] 161:32:15
Enemy Phase [+Spd, no red] 166:27:15
Enemy Phase [hard list+10] 95:71:56

Hector Berserk Armads

Spoiler

CHALLENGER LIST  
Hector (5* +def -spd)  
Weapon: Berserk Armads  
Special: Bonfire  
A: Distant Counter  
B: Special Fighter 3  
C: Goad Armor  
S: Quick Riposte 3 

 

[Ice Dragon]

35 minutes ago, XRay said:

Took me a while to figure out how make to Berserk Armads to work better than regular Armads. Is this the build you are referring to?

+10 (Valentine) Hector [+Atk, -Spd] (Berserk Armads, Bonfire, Distant Counter, Wrath 3, Quickened Pulse)

It's a one-hit-kill build ideally run with as much Atk stacked as you can.

[mampfoid]

AA was interesting today, I run out of counters (with Fire/Earth blessing) and went with 3 colorless units into the last fight. Managed to get my deathless/7 streak with my second try (first try was stopped by guidance on battle 3). Score of 3188 will keep me savely in top 5k. 

[Diovani Bressan]

I replayed Arena to change my score, and it changed from 3.720 to 3.728, which is not that much but it's better than before.

What I did was change Soren's assist skill from Rally Spd/Res to Rally Atk/Def, and give him another merge so he is +8 now. Also in my previous arena run I used Marth to kill a Ophelia because she would kill my Fjorm with her special, and it made me lose 3 points.

I am not confiant this season, but who knows!

I already got 616 defensive points, so my 900 feathers are already guaranteed.

Edited October 10, 2018 by Diovani Bressan