pianime94

Arena Discussion Thread (Team, Score, Rank, etc)

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1 hour ago, MaskedAmpharos said:

Are you sure it's a 10-point range?

1 hour ago, Alkaid said:

I had 682 to 694 on the week before last, so that was 12.

I think it might depend on the density of teams around where your team is, or something like that. A range of 10 seemed to be most common for me, but I've had a few teams that got matched up in a range of 12 before.

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2 questions, unrelated to each other:

1) Are the top tiers (18-20) expanding, making them easier to enter and retain, or do the demotions keep them pretty stable?

2) Any advice for facing dancers? I usually find arena matches pretty easy to handle otherwise, but I just can't seem to wrap my head around how the AI is going to behave if they have dancers, especially because my usual strategy is to sit just outside the danger zone, step in for a nuke or two then dance/reposition out. When they have a dancer, if I sit further out of range they don't dance and just shift forward, but if I don't they nuke my glass cannon. Further confusing me, sometimes it seems they could kill one of my units if they used the dancer, but instead the she will just advance and end her turn.

Edited by Beddlam

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3 minutes ago, Beddlam said:

2 questions, unrelated to each other:

1) Are the top tiers (18-20) expanding, making them easier to enter and retain, or do the demotions keep them pretty stable?

2) Any advice for facing dancers? I usually find arena matches pretty easy to handle otherwise, but I just can't seem to wrap my head around how the AI is going to behave if they have dancers, especially because my usual strategy is to sit just outside the danger zone, step in for a nuke or two then dance/reposition out. When they have a dancer, if I sit further out of range they don't dance and just shift forward, but if I don't they nuke my glass cannon. Further confusing me, sometimes it seems they could kill one of my units if they used the dancer, but instead the she will just advance and end her turn.

1) I'm pretty sure the top tiers are expanding for now. Even if most people get demoted, more people come to take their place every week.

2) Dancers are just annoying, especially on these maps, as they often feel very cramped. It's a bit easier for me, since a lot of my team members excel at counter killing, and dead enemies can't be danced. I suppose you could try to lure some enemies outside the dancers range. It might also be relevant to note that dancers will still attack your units if they can, so most can easily be lured and counter killed.

Apart from that, it's just predicting the AI, and trying to abuse that. You might find this page on the wiki to be of use:

http://feheroes.gamepedia.com/Enemy_AI

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17 minutes ago, Beddlam said:

2 questions, unrelated to each other:

1) Are the top tiers (18-20) expanding, making them easier to enter and retain, or do the demotions keep them pretty stable?

2) Any advice for facing dancers? I usually find arena matches pretty easy to handle otherwise, but I just can't seem to wrap my head around how the AI is going to behave if they have dancers, especially because my usual strategy is to sit just outside the danger zone, step in for a nuke or two then dance/reposition out. When they have a dancer, if I sit further out of range they don't dance and just shift forward, but if I don't they nuke my glass cannon. Further confusing me, sometimes it seems they could kill one of my units if they used the dancer, but instead the she will just advance and end her turn.

1) They are still expanding. They won't stop expanding until they grow to the point where as many players are leaving them as are entering, and currently, players enter the top tiers much faster than they leave. For all the tiers to be stable, there would need to be about 7% of the Tier 7+ players in Tier 20, 14% in Tier 19, and 23% in Tier 18. With an active arena population that seems to be over 200k players, that means Tier 20 will likely grow to contain over 14k players.

2) Dancers are tricky, but this may help, particularly the bit about movement order: http://feheroes.gamepedia.com/Enemy_AI

Edited by Othin

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11 hours ago, Bartozio said:

Not only did you use Reinhardt, but you even put him on a cavalry team. I'm starting to wonder whether there is any part of your soul left to sacrifice next week...

Congrats on your score though :P, that rank is pretty hilarious.

Probably not. I've gone full dark side. lol

But to be fair, I still haven't gotten any defense wins, so I guess cav teams aren't that big of a deal...even though I've faced a few on these maps, and they've been pretty brutal. I'll leave these guys up for a few days before I see about shuffling some people around.

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Defense wins are flooding in now that Camus is my bonus unit. RIP people who got baited by my Hector lead only to find Reinhardt, Xander, and Camus running out at them.

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20 minutes ago, Otorio said:

Defense wins are flooding in now that Camus is my bonus unit. RIP people who got baited by my Hector lead only to find Reinhardt, Xander, and Camus running out at them.

Coincidentally i did this last night since I wasn't getting any defense wins.

just got one in the last hour so woo! :)

was worried about dropping Olivia but the Hector bait worked out fine at least

Edited by mcsilas

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Just now, mcsilas said:

Coincidentally i did this last night since I wasn't getting any defense wins.

just got one in the last hour so woo! :)

Welcome to the scummy side!

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Just now, Otorio said:

Welcome to the scummy side!

Need to get those defense wins yo. Getting less wins each week.

Other account doesn't have any wins at all and i have no Hector to bait 

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4 minutes ago, mcsilas said:

Coincidentally i did this last night since I wasn't getting any defense wins.

just got one in the last hour so woo! :)

was worried about dropping Olivia but the Hector bait worked out fine at least

I may have to do this... I thought Titania was an unassuming enough lead...especially compared to Hector. I don't think I've seen any others in the Arena...at least not many. But if Hector's good bait, I'll go for it.

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4 minutes ago, Rafiel's Aria said:

I may have to do this... I thought Titania was an unassuming enough lead...especially compared to Hector. I don't think I've seen any others in the Arena...at least not many. But if Hector's good bait, I'll go for it.

Eh, I would say horses are pretty likely to scare people off. Makes it seem likelier to be a full cavalry team and no one wants a piece of that!

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16 minutes ago, Rafiel's Aria said:

I may have to do this... I thought Titania was an unassuming enough lead...especially compared to Hector. I don't think I've seen any others in the Arena...at least not many. But if Hector's good bait, I'll go for it.

Most people consider Hector (or any other armor) to be a free 4v3 match, which is why he's good bait.

Titania is too suspicious. She's not a bonus character, meaning the person that made the team isn't using her simply because she's their only bonus character.

 

On the other hand, I'm running Hinoka as my lead, and she's hiding 3 green fliers behind her (all with Hone Fliers). I already have 3 wins, so people are taking the bait despite the very real risk of Flier Emblem.

Edited by Ice Dragon

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Currently, I skip any Horse leads. Not worth the headache if full cavalry, most of the time they are the lower end of my point spectrum and people using cavalry in arena aren't even worthy of getting the chance of a defense win.

Just use a Wing of Mercy Delete Button (Rein, if you can't think of anything else, lol) and bulky units that don't die that easily and voila, 10+ wins every week since I completed my Brave Bow Takumi. Might need to rethink my team if I get too many merges (more points are useless for the purpose of defense points and weaker enemies are more likely to fail against my team), but if it ain't broken, don't fix it.

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1 hour ago, MonkeyCheez3K said:

Currently, I skip any Horse leads. Not worth the headache if full cavalry, most of the time they are the lower end of my point spectrum and people using cavalry in arena aren't even worthy of getting the chance of a defense win.

Just use a Wing of Mercy Delete Button (Rein, if you can't think of anything else, lol) and bulky units that don't die that easily and voila, 10+ wins every week since I completed my Brave Bow Takumi. Might need to rethink my team if I get too many merges (more points are useless for the purpose of defense points and weaker enemies are more likely to fail against my team), but if it ain't broken, don't fix it.

Funny that, my Reinhardt uses Wings of Mercy, too! i was planning to give him lancebreaker but WoM might be better for defense teams.

i would think he teleports next to a damaged Hector and deletes any red that fails to KO Hector.

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12 minutes ago, mcsilas said:

Funny that, my Reinhardt uses Wings of Mercy, too! i was planning to give him lancebreaker but WoM might be better for defense teams.

i would think he teleports next to a damaged Hector and deletes any red that fails to KO Hector.

That's basically the main gist of it, though Hector is not the best pick, as he really sucks in defense teams, imo. He doesn't survive a round against the common swordies, and always lags behind so that your WoM unit dies before the enemy deals with Hector; it defeats the purpose of the whole WoM-Deletion idea. It's actually way better to use WoM on Hector himself, because a teleporting Armor of his prowess can be devastating.

Edited by MonkeyCheez3K

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I don't understand the whole concept behind "baiting" with your lead unit. 

I was under the impression that most people just click the Advanced battle option regardless of who the lead unit is? If they don't pick a fight it would mostly because they're fishing for points. It doesn't really matter to me if the opposing lead is a Hector or a Reinhardt or a Lissa: if the point value of the match is too low I don't pick it, and if it's at a reasonable point margin then I select it. 

Are there really people out there that pick matches based on the opponent's defense lead?

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Just now, MaskedAmpharos said:

I don't understand the whole concept behind "baiting" with your lead unit. 

I was under the impression that most people just click the Advanced battle option regardless of who the lead unit is? If they don't pick a fight it would mostly because they're fishing for points. It doesn't really matter to me if the opposing lead is a Hector or a Reinhardt or a Lissa: if the point value of the match is too low I don't pick it, and if it's at a reasonable point margin then I select it. 

Are there really people out there that pick matches based on the opponent's defense lead?

If your win rates vs. a particular character is shaky (full melee team w/o dancer vs. Reinhardt, for example---my best damage dealers are melee, which causes huge issues when the bonus unit isn't strong enough to take Cordelia's place, forcing Azura to get swapped out), sometimes you'd rather skip that rein lead and try someone else, especially if you're deep into a streak.

Personally I don't bother, though.

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6 minutes ago, MaskedAmpharos said:

I don't understand the whole concept behind "baiting" with your lead unit. 

I was under the impression that most people just click the Advanced battle option regardless of who the lead unit is? If they don't pick a fight it would mostly because they're fishing for points. It doesn't really matter to me if the opposing lead is a Hector or a Reinhardt or a Lissa: if the point value of the match is too low I don't pick it, and if it's at a reasonable point margin then I select it. 

Are there really people out there that pick matches based on the opponent's defense lead?

Also, is it still based on the defence team? If so, would they finally have fixed the thing with defence wins so it shows a member of the offence team?

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8 minutes ago, phineas81707 said:

Also, is it still based on the defence team? If so, would they finally have fixed the thing with defence wins so it shows a member of the offence team?

I believe it still shows the first member of their defense team, yes.

But when you get defense wins, I believe you still see the player's rep and not necessarily a member of their offense team. That said, I don't see what the problem with that is or what there is to "fix". You don't really gain significantly more knowledge knowing "this person beat my team with a Celica rep" than "this person beat my team and one of the four units the person used was Celica". 

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6 minutes ago, MaskedAmpharos said:

I believe it still shows the first member of their defense team, yes.

But when you get defense wins, I believe you still see the player's rep and not necessarily a member of their offense team. That said, I don't see what the problem with that is or what there is to "fix". You don't really gain significantly more knowledge knowing "this person beat my team with a Celica rep" than "this person beat my team and one of the four units the person used was Celica". 

It could make more sense.

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This week my deathless streak of 4854 isn't good enough. I'm currently rank 897 and the cut off for staying in tier 20 is 825 right now. Only things I can really do is, right now hinoka is still missing skills so that should increase my points some after I sp grind her and I could just surrender unless I see a battle with a high point value for my range. I think I'll be very borderline in the end though.

 

And my thoughts on choosing battles is the same as MaskedAmpharos. Just choose advanced and maybe surrender based on point value if it looks too low. The actual character shown I don't really think about. 

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What would be the cutoff to advance from tier 19 to tier 20?

I'm wondering if I should even bother trying.

My personal best score is 4816. But if the score required to advance to 20 is any more than 4820, that's probably unattainable to me even with good luck matchups on a deathless runs...

And I don't even have any of the current bonus units at 5*. So I couldn't get a decently high score without promoting a unit at the cost of 20k feathers anyway, which I don't feel is a good investment - unless I happen to summon a Reinhardt, then I can promote Camus and make a Horse Emblem team.

So without any merged units, I'll probably bounce around between tier 18 and 19 then.

Edited by Xaos Steel Wing

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56 minutes ago, MaskedAmpharos said:

I don't understand the whole concept behind "baiting" with your lead unit. 

I was under the impression that most people just click the Advanced battle option regardless of who the lead unit is? If they don't pick a fight it would mostly because they're fishing for points. It doesn't really matter to me if the opposing lead is a Hector or a Reinhardt or a Lissa: if the point value of the match is too low I don't pick it, and if it's at a reasonable point margin then I select it. 

Are there really people out there that pick matches based on the opponent's defense lead?

This right here. I always pick Advanced no matter what. In the past, I might have skipped over the battle if Reinhardt was the lead because he scared the crap out of me, but now I just always take what I'm given. Horses don't necessarily scare me off because I'm doing the exact same thing. I don't think wasting crests. lol

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23 minutes ago, Xaos Steel Wing said:

What would be the cutoff to advance from tier 19 to tier 20?

I'm wondering if I should even bother trying.

My personal best score is 4816. But if the score required to advance to 20 is any more than 4820, that's probably unattainable to me even with good luck matchups on a deathless runs...

And I don't even have any of the current bonus units at 5*. So I couldn't get a decently high score without promoting a unit at the cost of 20k feathers anyway, which I don't feel is a good investment - unless I happen to summon a Reinhardt, then I can promote Camus and make a Horse Emblem team.

So without any merged units, I'll probably bounce around between tier 18 and 19 then.

If last week is any indication, you need at least a score in the 4830s (maybe even 4840s) to get into Tier 20. 

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13 minutes ago, MaskedAmpharos said:

If last week is any indication, you need at least a score in the 4830s (maybe even 4840s) to get into Tier 20. 

I would expect it to decrease a bit over time as more and more players rise in the tiers, but not to fall by too much.

So basically I shouldn't try too hard, as even with my best team in a best case scenario I don't think it would even be possible to reach 4830 score - I haven't even broken 4820 before. Though 4814 was enough to be around rank 2000 in tier 18, and over 8000 people advanced...

I guess this is the limit of how high I can go.

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