Arena Discussion Thread (inc. Assault)

[Hawk King]

4 minutes ago, Kuroi Tsubasa Tenshi said:

Tier 20 score of 2852

I think you mean 4852.

5 minutes ago, Kuroi Tsubasa Tenshi said:

I figured as much. The numbers just don't line up in a way that makes it realistic for me to think I have any shot at staying. It's not unexpected, yet still kind of crazy to think about, that your higher score is already pushed out of the threshold, though.

When I first got my score I was rank 500ish. 24 hours later, I was in the 900's. I was quite surprised by that because 4886 is my highest score yet and a bit more than I had last week, and last week I finished in the top 600 for Tier 20 which allowed me to stay. This tells me that there were quite a few whales/mini whales who moved in this week because my team is by no means F2P.

The cutoff will probably be around 4920-4930.

[Vaximillian]

1 hour ago, Vaximillian said:

I am projected to promote to tier 19 with my current pathetic score of 4,782. I’m rank 3,008 at the moment out of 9,012 which is the current threshold.
Not that I am even slightly hopeful that I actually will get in, because come on, 4,782.

Ahahaha, managed to add 8 points for a total of 4,790. Rank 2,371 with a promotion threshold of 9,026.

[GuiltyLove]

23 minutes ago, Vaximillian said:

Ahahaha, managed to add 8 points for a total of 4,790. Rank 2,371 with a promotion threshold of 9,026.

That gives me some hope. I am on tier 18 as well with a score of 4806. My rank keeps slowly dropping every day D: It should be good enough though

[LordFrigid]

Update for 5044 (T20):

6am PDT 6/22: 203

6am PDT 6/23: 241

Cutoff is at 856, so I'm thinking I should be pretty safe where I am now. Teams faced detailed in the previous post.

Went back to Horse Emblem for my daily Arena battles. Totally damage-type balanced team of Reinhardt, Cecilia, Olwen, and Elise is as hilarious as ever. Fortunately -blade is broken, otherwise Julia would wreck my day. I might actually make Xander my next 5* promotion, now that my main Arena core is done. I'd drop Reinhardt, definitely...QR + Heal support...sounds fair and balanced.

Edited June 23, 2017 by LordFrigid

[Kuroi Tsubasa Tenshi]

7 hours ago, Hawk King said:

I think you mean 4852.

When I first got my score I was rank 500ish. 24 hours later, I was in the 900's. I was quite surprised by that because 4886 is my highest score yet and a bit more than I had last week, and last week I finished in the top 600 for Tier 20 which allowed me to stay. This tells me that there were quite a few whales/mini whales who moved in this week because my team is by no means F2P.

The cutoff will probably be around 4920-4930.

Yeah, that initial wave of whales and mini-whales that didn't quite measure up on the first go. I guess that's just a weird quirk of the tiering system that we'll have to deal with for another month or so until things are completely settled.

[Okigen]

Hmm... the pirate maps and defense tiles make the arena so much harder this week. 

I probbably won't stay in Tier 20 for long because cut-off is rank 861. Iirc, in the week that Tier 19 was still the highest, I got ranked 980-ish with score of 4960. Assuming everyone in that list has bounced back to Tier 20 by now along with me, I won't be able to rank any higher.

Edited June 23, 2017 by Okigen

[Cute Chao]

Okay, I have literally taken to surrendering whenever I see that stupid boat map, which I got four frickin' times in a row. Whoever thought of this round of maps for the arena was a complete frickin' sadist. The stupid mountain one is not much better. I'm not bothering with a deathless run - it's too much stress and about as much fun as slowly impaling myself on a rusty sword. I'm just going to complete the rest of the arena quests this week with a beginner's run because screw these stupid maps. 

It's annoying, though. I actually like the other maps in it. It's just those two that really let it down. Half the time, it feels like there's no way to win. No manoeuvrability = no win. 

I don't know or care if others disagree. I just wanted to vent 'cos those stupid maps have cost me time and time again this go round and it's so frustrating. 

Edited June 24, 2017 by Cute Chao

[MrSmokestack]

@Cute Chao Those two and the lava map are probably the most unforgiving to improper baiting, I find, but they're perfectly beatable nonetheless.

What team are you using? You'll never win if you keep surrendering on those maps, after all.

[Cute Chao]

2 hours ago, MrSmokestack said:

@Cute Chao Those two and the lava map are probably the most unforgiving to improper baiting, I find, but they're perfectly beatable nonetheless.

What team are you using? You'll never win if you keep surrendering on those maps, after all.

Currently Camus, Julia, Ryoma and Azura. 

I'm sorry, but they just bore me. Others can beat them, but I find no fun in them. I prefer more open maps that I can move about on. I have beaten them enough to have a 7-Streak in the arena with two deaths, and I'm not interested in running a blade build myself, or fury builds. I know, it closes off a lot of avenues, so I'm happy just venting. I wouldn't get up to the next tier anyway - I flick between seventeen and eighteen and I'm currently in eighteen, so it doesn't actually do me much harm. I just wish those two maps would go away. Even the lava map is more fun. Yes, I still die sometimes, but at least it feels like I can bait and generally have a chance, whereas those always feel like they rely on luck, or builds I don't particularly want to run. 

Edited June 24, 2017 by Cute Chao

[ignis_z]

23 hours ago, Hawk King said:

Skills and weapons that cost higher SP will improve your scores in the arena. Also you want all of your characters at Lv40 and 5* if possible. And the more merges the higher your scores will go.

Ike wants to keep his Aether and Heavy blade skill because they have a high SP cost.

And remember, it is the base SP cost. Just because an inherited skill costs 300 SP for the 3rd level, it is still counted as having an SP cost of 200 for arena purposes.

Then is better to put on my camus Growing thunder than moonbow? for BST.

[LordFrigid]

Update for 5044 (T20):

6am PDT 6/22: 203

6am PDT 6/23: 241

6:45am PDT 6/24: 272

Cutoff is 872. Teams faced detailed in the previous post. Highest Def score is now 586.

[Hawk King]

6 hours ago, ignis_z said:

Then is better to put on my camus Growing thunder than moonbow? for BST.

Absolutely. Aether is the best of all of them, and then the AOE skills are all tied for 2nd best.

You probably won't get a chance to use them very often, but they get you the higher scores.

[MaskedAmpharos]

6 hours ago, ignis_z said:

Then is better to put on my camus Growing thunder than moonbow? for BST.

If you can win without Camus needing his special, then yeah the Growing/Blazing skills and Aether/Galeforce are ideal.

Otherwise stick to specials that are useful instead of just whatever gets you points. 

[mcsilas]

12 hours ago, Cute Chao said:

Okay, I have literally taken to surrendering whenever I see that stupid boat map, which I got four frickin' times in a row. Whoever thought of this round of maps for the arena was a complete frickin' sadist. The stupid mountain one is not much better. I'm not bothering with a deathless run - it's too much stress and about as much fun as slowly impaling myself on a rusty sword. I'm just going to complete the rest of the arena quests this week with a beginner's run because screw these stupid maps. 

It's annoying, though. I actually like the other maps in it. It's just those two that really let it down. Half the time, it feels like there's no way to win. No manoeuvrability = no win. 

I don't know or care if others disagree. I just wanted to vent 'cos those stupid maps have cost me time and time again this go round and it's so frustrating. 

I just don't do anything on the boat map now on the 1st turn to scout the AI patterns. I used to break some boxes but that led to my downfall if they had a dancer.

I feel I'm not as scared anymore because of this, although things like WoM units cans till be annoying especially because the ships are so congested/small in space.

With the mountain one with the L defense tiles, my new strategy is placing some units at the top/bottom to try and split up the enemy forces. Cavalry is good because of their extra movement for this. That map is really bad though if the enemy has a ranged unit with a dancer. 

[Cute Chao]

51 minutes ago, mcsilas said:

I just don't do anything on the boat map now on the 1st turn to scout the AI patterns. I used to break some boxes but that led to my downfall if they had a dancer.

I feel I'm not as scared anymore because of this, although things like WoM units cans till be annoying especially because the ships are so congested/small in space.

With the mountain one with the L defense tiles, my new strategy is placing some units at the top/bottom to try and split up the enemy forces. Cavalry is good because of their extra movement for this. That map is really bad though if the enemy has a ranged unit with a dancer. 

That's been pretty much all of them. For the boat map, I just really don't like it. If anyone finds it fun, then good on them 'cos I just can't see how. I still swear whoever designed it is a sadist xD 

To be fair, I often did okay on it when I had Reinhardt and Xander, but they're maxed out. I think this new team isn't quite so good for ohko attacks, so that's the downfall. But oh well. I'm eagerly awaiting these maps to vamoose. Hopefully they'll add more in sooner or later so there's longer between getting them...

[Hawk King]

21 minutes ago, Cute Chao said:

That's been pretty much all of them. For the boat map, I just really don't like it. If anyone finds it fun, then good on them 'cos I just can't see how. I still swear whoever designed it is a sadist xD 

To be fair, I often did okay on it when I had Reinhardt and Xander, but they're maxed out. I think this new team isn't quite so good for ohko attacks, so that's the downfall. But oh well. I'm eagerly awaiting these maps to vamoose. Hopefully they'll add more in sooner or later so there's longer between getting them...

The boat map is just really jarring because it has no defense tiles and it is really close quarters, with the narrow bridge connecting the boats. There is no way to manipulate the enemy AI to move where you want them to go unless you have fliers to go out over the water. If the enemy has a mage behind a melee unit who covers the melee units weakness there is no way to split them up to make it safe for yourself unless you are running a horse team, and just bum rush them.

For all of the other maps, I have found ways to make them work out for me. I really like the defense tiles.

[GuiltyLove]

The boat map can go suck a big one. It's so annoying if you have to face a Horse Emblem team with Reinhardt and a Blade user. I don't recall even my fliers being able to hide on the water tiles forever...

The mountains are fun for me though. My fliers just kite everyone :D

[Cute Chao]

1 hour ago, Hawk King said:

The boat map is just really jarring because it has no defense tiles and it is really close quarters, with the narrow bridge connecting the boats. There is no way to manipulate the enemy AI to move where you want them to go unless you have fliers to go out over the water. If the enemy has a mage behind a melee unit who covers the melee units weakness there is no way to split them up to make it safe for yourself unless you are running a horse team, and just bum rush them.

For all of the other maps, I have found ways to make them work out for me. I really like the defense tiles.

It's just two of them that get me - the two many seem to dislike. I love the other defence tile ones - some are harder, some are easier, but you can actually make them work with an okay team. I think for the boat one, especially, it relies too heavily on luck or having pretty much the best of the best - maybe a bladetome fully buffed or something? Or a Reinhardt plus some luck can do it, too. With the current team I want to run, it's just not doing much. I could change my team, but then I'd be going back to people I've already maxed, and I want to try different styles.

I could use a flier for the z-mountain map, but I don't particularly wish to run a flier team right now. Though I have recently trained Michalis up to nearly level 40 5*, and I do have a 5* Cordelia and a few Bunny!Camillas kicking about ^.^

[Okigen]

After a few crests I finally finished the deathless run. Rank 736 ~ only 152 steps above cut-off points and there are still 3 days more, so I may not stay in Tier 20 this week.  

Have to thank the AI's stupidity. The last map was the boat with an Azura on the front and Nino on the back. If Nino moves first and Azura dances my team is pretty much dead, but for whatever reason Azua decided to move first lol

Anyway, the defensive maps have been reeeeeally good for Hector. Last month he was there pretty much there just in order to increase arena points. This week he's back as the MVP. Maybe after finishing upgrading Reinhardt I will come back to to build another defensive unit for upcoming defensive rotation.

Edited June 24, 2017 by Okigen

[Kuroi Tsubasa Tenshi]

If you have a good green baiter, I find the boat map is a really good place to face Reinhardt. Since the other maps have the third slot as his optimal slot, this one awkwardly sticks him out front. Thus, only breaking boxes on the player side, it's usually easy to bait him to attack over their boxes. This will body block melee from breaking their way in and get one of their units killed.

Speaking of Reinhardt, I think my soul has finally been fully sold off to the Reinbow Pulse. My defense wins exploded overnight, such that nothing from the previous wins is on the last anymore. This gives me 17+ defense wins with the highest being 582.This build's some scary shit (I don't think I've ever gotten this many wins before).

Just now, Okigen said:

After a few crests I finally finished the deathless run. Rank 736 ~ only 152 steps above cut-off points and there are still 3 days more, so I may not stay in Tier 20 this week.  

Have to thank the AI's stupidity. The last map was the boat with an Azura on the front and Nino on the back. If Nino moves first and Azura dances my team is pretty much dead, but for whatever reason Azua decided to move first lol

This is due to a quirk in the AI that many of us abuse all the time. That is, any assist other than rallies will cause units to always act melee, then ranged. Therefore, assuming no one is actually in immediate attack range, Azura will only sing to extend attack range for melee or ranged units whose rallying of other units just happen to put them in attack range of the player units. This means that often times the enemy threat range is actually a lot smaller than first appears.

For this reason, you may see some defense teams in Arena where the ranged units have unequipped their assist skills. This is not a mistake: the player is explicitly doing this to allow their ranged to have extended attack ranges from their refresher.

Edited June 24, 2017 by Kuroi Tsubasa Tenshi

[Okigen]

6 minutes ago, Kuroi Tsubasa Tenshi said:

If you have a good green baiter, I find the boat map is a really good place to face Reinhardt. Since the other maps have the third slot as his optimal slot, this one awkwardly sticks him out front. Thus, only breaking boxes on the player side, it's usually easy to bait him to attack over their boxes. This will body block melee from breaking their way in and get one of their units killed.

Speaking of Reinhardt, I think my soul has finally been fully sold off to the Reinbow Pulse. My defense wins exploded overnight, such that nothing from the previous wins is on the last anymore. This gives me 17+ defense wins with the highest being 582.This build's some scary shit (I don't think I've ever gotten this many wins before).

This is due to a quirk in the AI that many of us abuse all the time. That is, any assist other than rallies will cause units to always act melee, then ranged. Therefore, assuming no one is actually in immediate attack range, Azura will only sing to extend attack range for melee or ranged units whose rallying of other units just happen to put them in attack range of the player units. This means that often times the enemy threat range is actually a lot smaller than first appears.

For this reason, you may see some defense teams in Arena where the ranged units have unequipped their assist skills. This is not a mistake: the player is explicitly doing this to allow their ranged to have extended attack ranges from their refresher.

Uhm...  not sure what you mean? Can you elaborate? There are several times it happened the other way round with Bride Cordelia though, that Bride moved first in front of Azura, then Azura danced for Bride to reach my team.

[Kuroi Tsubasa Tenshi]

3 minutes ago, Okigen said:

Uhm...  not sure what you mean? Can you elaborate? There are several times it happened the other way round with Bride Cordelia though, that Bride moved first in front of Azura, then Azura danced for Bride to reach my team.

Did Bride Cordelia still have her Rally Attack Speed or another Rally/Ardent Sacrifice or an empty assist slot? Those are the scenarios where she could end up moving before Azura.

[Okigen]

@Kuroi Tsubasa Tenshi I think they had Reciprocal Aid or something. Pretty sure Cordy didn't rally or assist anyone. Just moved ahead, got danced. 

Plus the Nino also had an assist skill - can't remember which one - so if Bride can move first why Nino didn't.

Edited June 24, 2017 by Okigen

[Kuroi Tsubasa Tenshi]

I'm not sure about Bride Cordelia, but chances are that Nino didn't have a Rally or had Sacrifice/Aid and no target. Any repositioning skills are pretty much guaranteed to make the ranged act last unless they've got something in their immediate range.

Rallies are basically the most dangerous assist for a ranged unit to have with a refresher nearby because they'll likely move to buff someone, which can place them in range of something else. If that happens and the refresher can reach them, they're gonna actually get to attack.

[Okigen]

@Kuroi Tsubasa Tenshi Hm.... I'm still not very convinced since I got screwed so many times in the same scenerio. Granted, I never paid attention to the name of assist skill either. Will watch out dancer's movement over the next few days to confirm.