Constitution = How much you lift?

[Ryuke]

I know ... the actual definition carrying a certain weapon w/o speed decrease.

 

So explain this...

Vaida has a 12 con. Joshua has 8/9 con.

Does that means Vaida can lift more than Joshua as she needs to hold a lance despite being a women... (or think Effie from Fates)

Or Heintz from Chapter 7 can literally carry a 9 weight tome meanwhile Joshua struggle since his con is 8.

 

In Vaida case... would you say she is resting her weapon on a wyvern thus expending less energy?

 

Yay... discussion. If wrong place. lemme know. or move it.

[FionordeQuester]

Personally, I always interpreted it as...

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Strength = Striking Power

Constitution = Bench Press 

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So Bruce Lee, for example, wouldn't have high bench press rating; but he WOULD have ASTRONIMICALLY high striking power.  The reason for that is because...

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Striking Power = Mass * Acceleration

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This, btw, is the reason behind the reasoning of "size doesn't matter [that much]".  The mass of a 7 foot person's arm is only slightly higher than the mass of a 6 foot person's arm, even assuming everything else is equal.  The only significant advantage a taller person would have is reach; this is because most opponenents start at a fair distance away from each other before the fight itself starts.  And, if the fight ends up on the ground, it's much easier for a big person to pin a smaller person than it is for a small person to pin the big person.  But, as Royce Gracie, Bruce Lee, and Mike Tyson demonstrated, even THOSE things can be neutralized.

Meanwhile, acceleration can only be amplified by knowing how to throw a punch or kick; and that's a question that comes down to knowledge and skill.  So if you ever wonder how Ike can possibly beat up the Black Knight (who is comparatively much bigger and heavier than him)...that's why.

Edited February 17, 2017 by FionordeQuester

[FionordeQuester]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pX4hluBaz6Q

 

Edited February 17, 2017 by FionordeQuester

[The Geek]

I think that Constitution is basically how big you are, and the reason weapon weight is put against Constitution is the basic idea that you can't easily handle a weapon that's bigger than you are.

[Ryuke]

@FionordeQuester ... Definitely seen strong women lifters. However.. at the same time. we are dealing with medieval days ... Where if you are warrior you shall lift/fight ? Did lifting exist back then? ... most likely. body weight maybe.. 

In anycase,

I am literally thinking just the same... 

A true avid MMA fan right there.

 

The only thing is Constitution... I believe comes with weight class. Like... higher cons = hard to rescue... since Aid has to be > Con.

 

A general can save a Wyvern Lord .. and cannot work the other way around (just an example.) It would be weird wouldnt it?  A General can maybe grab the user and leave the Wyvern. However... people like Swordmaster cannot do that. Maybe he doesnt lift ... or the General literally carry the rescue person in one arm like a ragdoll (or two).

 

Yet a Wyvern cannot rescue a General. Is he too heavy?

 

@The Geek *cough* heavy dark magic tome *cough* .. These thing must weigh a barbell worth of weight.

Edited February 17, 2017 by Ryuke

[FionordeQuester]

Hey, maybe those are just really, REALLY big books xD?  And I have to imagine that weight-lifting would have existed back then; wrestling isn't exactly something you need a lot of high tec stuff for, and big muscly men would be very helpful for lifting and carrying large loads.  Plus...dem' ladies man.  Big chests and big biceps almost never hurt a man as far as THAT goes  !

Edited February 17, 2017 by FionordeQuester

[Junkhead]

what, no

It's literally overall size.

[Ryuke]

Yeah.. they probably did exist. But if you are a strong soldier... you can do basic lifting unless its Nino.

 

Even if its overall size... It feels weird. Why can a bigger size unit can rescue a small one. Like how? (Insert some anime trick where they absorb the user)

[FionordeQuester]

Just now, Ryuke said:

Yeah.. they probably did exist. But if you are a strong soldier... you can do basic lifting unless its Nino.

 

Even if its overall size... It feels weird. Why can a bigger size unit can rescue a small one. Like how? (Insert some anime trick where they absorb the user)

 

Ergh...THAT I cannot tell you.  I myself am working on an FE7 hack where all mounted unts get 25 Con.  I'm not sure how long it's going to take for me to fix all the unintended consequences of THAT particular decision (I've only play tested most of Lyn Mode), but, yeah.  That's one of the things I'm doing with it.

[ruruo]

Someone please explain Moulder's 9 constitution. 

[Junkhead]

I mean, if you want to go there, you may as well start by magically-dissapearing books and having 20fuckingjavelins. 

I thought body size was obvious. The very contraddiction is pretty much only Vaida. She's not fucking huge, or anything. I'd argue that the Wyvern adds to the size, but that doesn't explain how the horse units have smaller Con. Again, this also doesn't support Vaida's case, since she's not stocky in any way (and even if she were like 6'3", she'd be really slim for that height).

[FionordeQuester]

Same reason some doctors take a lot of pride in their physical fitness?  He might know a lot more about the human body then most; therefore, he'd try that much harder to exercise so that he doesn't become unable to walk in his old age.

3 minutes ago, Soul~! said:

I mean, if you want to go there, you may as well start by magically-dissapearing books and having 20fuckingjavelins. 

I thought body size was obvious. The very contraddiction is pretty much only Vaida. She's not fucking huge, or anything. I'd argue that the Wyvern adds to the size, but that doesn't explain how the horse units have smaller Con. Again, this also doesn't support Vaida's case, since she's not stocky in any way (and even if she were like 6'3", she'd be really slim for that height).

 

Eh, that's...more of a fault of the character designers than anything.  Tis' the same reason why Florina wears thigh high boots and a miniskirt that barely covers her groin; in-spite of that completely going against her personality.

Edited February 17, 2017 by FionordeQuester

[Ryuke]

So ... Moulder is a priest that exercises in his off time while keeping a stache. Moulder also eats alot then... He must have been eating all these foods in Frelia because Tower of Valni guard cant defend themselves for life.

 

@Soul~! Maybe Vaida is stocky... nah.. yeah.. Like all Pegasus Rider has low con.  I imagine they are just tiny girls that fly on a peggy. Probably every Wyvern Rider has to undergo rigid training to become a soldier thus gain strength... (then again .. so does a swordmaster)

[Ryuke]

Just now, Ryuke said:

So ... Moulder is a priest that exercises in his off time while keeping a stache. Moulder also eats alot then... He must have been eating all these foods in Frelia because Tower of Valni guard cant defend themselves for life.

@Soul~! Maybe Vaida is stocky... nah.. yeah.. Like all Pegasus Rider has low con.  I imagine they are just tiny girls that fly on a peggy. Probably every Wyvern Rider has to undergo rigid training to become a soldier thus gain strength... (then again .. so does a swordmaster)

 

Also I love that doctor explanation (Now how do I delete this post ... cuase I double posted)

Edited February 17, 2017 by Ryuke

[Thor Odinson]

Armor likely adds some, and in art there's a tendency for a severe lack of female body type diversity and tend to default to small variations on the "idealized" build, no matter what the stats say. That's why Echidna, Flavia, Rinkah, and Meg stand out when it comes to design.

Seriously like drawing a buff woman is not hard at all I'm very willing to demonstrate how it's done

 

[FionordeQuester]

1 hour ago, Thor Odinson said:

Armor likely adds some, and in art there's a tendency for a severe lack of female body type diversity and tend to default to small variations on the "idealized" build, no matter what the stats say. That's why Echidna, Flavia, Rinkah, and Meg stand out when it comes to design.

Seriously like drawing a buff woman is not hard at all I'm very willing to demonstrate how it's done

 

Alright; I'd be down for that.  Just so long as you explain why it's drawn the way it's drawn (like, how a female's muscle anatomy differs from a man, if at all).

[Thor Odinson]

I mean, most of the constructions are similar--the biggest differences are in bone structure and not muscular structure. On average, a woman tend to have narrower shoulders and wider hips in comparison to the average man. The female ratios tend to be shoulder ~= hip, while male is shoulder > hip by a visibly significant margin. This is not a hard and fast rule, however, as there are women with wide shoulders or men with narrow shoulders and wider hips, but that is the average.

While muscle is harder to build for women (again, on average, there's other factors like genetics and stuff, I mean look at Serena Williams her muscles are gorgeous) and the average woman trying to lift won't look super bulky (there will still be visible musculature, however. No noodle arm either), it doesn't mean that a woman who really want to bulk can't achieve it with very hard work and the proper diet, as seen with the myriad of images of female powerlifters and bodybuilders. A woman also require a bit more body fat % in order to be healthy, so don't expect too many 2% body fat looks in real life (and to be fair, dudes don't really hit 2% often either---15% is usually what it takes for muscle tone to appear, which is perfectly healthy for a woman). The actual muscular structure only differs in their conformity to the bone structure, and little else. Ex. a woman's bicep is still gonna be in the same place as a man's bicep, etc

In art, depending on stylistic choices, it isn't necessary so much to conform to realism all the time, as much as making sure everything looks proportional and generally in the right place. If men are allowed to be drawn exaggeratedly buff to emphasize strength (let's be real nobody's as big as Coipel's Thor, or Jonathan Joestar, for example), then I see no reasons to not give the same kind of artistic liberties to women who is supposed to be portrayed as very physically strong, as well. I tend to draw everyone a little buffer than they should be, since I enjoy drawing muscle tone and also take after Jojo.

Ex. Rinkah speedpaint

 

Edited February 17, 2017 by Thor Odinson

[Augestein]

Con in Fire Emblem seems to be this weird combo of weight and unit size. Naturally, the larger a person is, the easier it is to lift something. A 5'5 person is going to have a harder time picking up a chair and walking with it than a 6 '1 person. Even if the shorter person is stronger than the taller person. It's hard to believe that EVERY knight is some behemoth of a man, but I can believe that his armor makes him heavy. 

[FionordeQuester]

3 hours ago, Thor Odinson said:

While muscle is harder to build for women (again, on average, there's other factors like genetics and stuff, I mean look at Serena Williams her muscles are gorgeous) and the average woman trying to lift won't look super bulky (there will still be visible musculature, however. No noodle arm either), it doesn't mean that a woman who really want to bulk can't achieve it with very hard work and the proper diet, as seen with the myriad of images of female powerlifters and bodybuilders. A woman also require a bit more body fat % in order to be healthy, so don't expect too many 2% body fat looks in real life (and to be fair, dudes don't really hit 2% often either---15% is usually what it takes for muscle tone to appear, which is perfectly healthy for a woman). The actual muscular structure only differs in their conformity to the bone structure, and little else. Ex. a woman's bicep is still gonna be in the same place as a man's bicep, etc

What exactly IS a healthy body fat % for a man?  I was always curious as to whether or not the guys you see in Hollywood are really a good representation of what a physically fit male should look like (rather than just taking steroids).

Edited February 17, 2017 by FionordeQuester

[Thor Odinson]

9 hours ago, FionordeQuester said:

What exactly IS a healthy body fat % for a man?  I was always curious as to whether or not the guys you see in Hollywood are really a good representation of what a physically fit male should look like (rather than just taking steroids).

http://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/measure_up_body_fat.htm a google gives me this chart since I don't know off the top of my head for dudes

Hollywood representation certainly is not the most accurate for men either. Granted, there are cases where it makes sense (Thor the god of being strong as fuck should look stronger than your average strong dude, Captain America literally has a super soldier serum injected, etc), and generally if it's an action film it's not that egregious, but expecting basically every guy in every genre to have a 6 pack is pretty ridiculous and a bit much. The average musician (for example, those seem to pop up in romance or some genre that isn't action) isn't going to have a 6 pack unless they also do some kind of intense athletics in their spare time.

2% body fat is very hard to achieve regardless of gender because it requires a very strict diet, but it's healthier for men to be than women. However, you look really fucking veiny at that stage, so most hollywood images men don't really hit 2%. Bodybuilding is the only place that really does.

 

Actually now that I think about it a dude shouldn't necessarily have to be ripped with a 6 pack either--strongmen competition dudes don't have visible 6 packs but they can deadlift cars

Edited February 17, 2017 by Thor Odinson

[Ryuke]

13 hours ago, FionordeQuester said:

What exactly IS a healthy body fat % for a man?  I was always curious as to whether or not the guys you see in Hollywood are really a good representation of what a physically fit male should look like (rather than just taking steroids).

For a guy definitely <18%... Well more than 5%

 

I think male its ... body fat then comes BMI. BMI doesnt work for some people ... aka Powerlifter/Strongman. But for the general consensus .. yea.

[Augestein]

5 hours ago, Ryuke said:

For a guy definitely <18%... Well more than 5%

 

I think male its ... body fat then comes BMI. BMI doesnt work for some people ... aka Powerlifter/Strongman. But for the general consensus .. yea.

It also goes up as you get older. It also doesn't work in many cases if you're super short or super tall. 

Edited February 18, 2017 by Augestein

[Slumber]

On 2/16/2017 at 6:12 PM, Ryuke said:

@FionordeQuester ... Definitely seen strong women lifters. However.. at the same time. we are dealing with medieval days ... Where if you are warrior you shall lift/fight ? Did lifting exist back then? ... most likely. body weight maybe.. 

In anycase,

I am literally thinking just the same... 

A true avid MMA fan right there.

 

The only thing is Constitution... I believe comes with weight class. Like... higher cons = hard to rescue... since Aid has to be > Con.

 

A general can save a Wyvern Lord .. and cannot work the other way around (just an example.) It would be weird wouldnt it?  A General can maybe grab the user and leave the Wyvern. However... people like Swordmaster cannot do that. Maybe he doesnt lift ... or the General literally carry the rescue person in one arm like a ragdoll (or two).

 

Yet a Wyvern cannot rescue a General. Is he too heavy?

 

@The Geek *cough* heavy dark magic tome *cough* .. These thing must weigh a barbell worth of weight.

Body building and weight lifting goes back to ancient Greece. That said, I think medieval/mid-upper Europe by and large didn't do this. Like, at all. Most people got strong through hard labor.

I think con is like @FionordeQuestersays. It's more like body size than strength, and lifting larger objects isn't necessarily easier for a bigger person because they're stronger, but it is easier because larger objects are just easier for larger people to handle.

Edited February 18, 2017 by Slumber

[Thor Odinson]

specifically it has something to do with being center of torque or something, and being heavier helps with that.

That being said, if you lift more you tend to be heavier than people who look to be your own size, because muscles weigh more than fat.

Edited February 18, 2017 by Thor Odinson

[Jotari]

Clearly Vaida is actually a Sayian.