Sarki Soliloquy Posted February 17, 2017 Share Posted February 17, 2017 Can we please talk about the stupid mechanic where your unit will loss all EXP/stat growths/levels upon depth? Ever noticed that if one of your units levels up in battle, dies, then look at them after the battle, they'll be back to their conditions when the battle began? It appears Heroes cancels any EXP you gained via battle if you fall in battle. There is no other Fire Emblem game (I know of) that does this. All it does it inhibits growth on your weaker units, making it serve seemingly no purpose but player inconvenience. Hope you like expending Light's Blessing & even Orbs for those 3 levels you missed to gain Selena to 20! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eclipse Posted February 17, 2017 Share Posted February 17, 2017 . . .uh, what? Figure out what your units can and can't take, and plan accordingly. FE is a strategy game. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ether Posted February 17, 2017 Share Posted February 17, 2017 Considering that for most of the series, units that fell were gone permanently(something they obviously can't do in a gacha style game), I don't think that this is that bad. It's a little bit in-elegant in implementation(and it'd be nice if we were told about it in the game itself), it gives incentive to keep people alive and promotes better strategic play. Especially with a minimum exp gain regardless of enemy level being implemented in the near future, I think it's alright as a mechanic. They just need to note it somewhere so people don;t find out the hard way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brand_Of_The_Exalt Posted February 17, 2017 Share Posted February 17, 2017 Uh, there are no Fire Emblem without any form of perma-death either. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elieson Posted February 17, 2017 Share Posted February 17, 2017 3 minutes ago, Brand_Of_The_Exalt said: Uh, there are no Fire Emblem without any form of perma-death either. Well Casual/Phoenix mode FE13 & 14 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brand_Of_The_Exalt Posted February 17, 2017 Share Posted February 17, 2017 Just now, Elieson said: Well Casual/Phoenix mode FE13 & 14 Yeah but perma-death is still possible, that's why I put "any form". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Othin Posted February 17, 2017 Share Posted February 17, 2017 In every other Fire Emblem game, if a character dies, then unless you're playing Casual Mode in one of the recent ones, you lose them permanently unless you restart the map. In Heroes, you can keep playing and get them back afterwards, just without Exp gained from the map. This is much tamer than what previous FE games did, and I think it's quite a brilliant feature: you get a meaningful penalty, but not one so overwhelming that you feel compelled to restart. The only issue is that the penalty doesn't seem to be mentioned explicitly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MaskedAmpharos Posted February 17, 2017 Share Posted February 17, 2017 Echoing the others, I think this is a great compromise actually considering they can't very well include permadeath in a gacha but still want to promote strategic play. Sure it makes it all the more annoying to level Olivia, but I don't think it's a bad system. I just wish they mentioned it in-game is all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Tarrasque Posted February 17, 2017 Share Posted February 17, 2017 I never played Fates or Awakening so I don't know how Casual/Phoenix mode behaves in regards to this. If... units did not lose EXP they earned when they 'died' in casual mode. Then... the EXP loss on death in this game was intentionally set as incentive to use orbs when you have no light's blessings. If... units DID lose EXP they earned when they 'died' in casual mode. Then... they're just dumb. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Punished Dayni Posted February 17, 2017 Share Posted February 17, 2017 Yeah, it's a compromise to make you, in the words of the internet, "git gud scrub". As annoyed as I get at it, it is a feature that makes sense and does allow you to keep your units and still punish poor play. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Malign Knight Posted February 17, 2017 Share Posted February 17, 2017 19 minutes ago, Dr. Tarrasque said: I never played Fates or Awakening so I don't know how Casual/Phoenix mode behaves in regards to this. If... units did not lose EXP they earned when they 'died' in casual mode. Then... the EXP loss on death in this game was intentionally set as incentive to use orbs when you have no light's blessings. If... units DID lose EXP they earned when they 'died' in casual mode. Then... they're just dumb. IIRC Casual in FE12,13 and 14 allowed the units that died to keep the experience they gained in the map where they died. I dunno about Phoenix Mode tough Anyway, I personally like it: I understand those who get annoyed by It, but, like others said, It's actually a pretty good compromise, since It doesn't punish you too much but It still pushes you to make sure that your units are all alive. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The DanMan Posted February 17, 2017 Share Posted February 17, 2017 It's honestly something I wish they'd carry over to the main games; it would give some incentive for casual mode players to strategize and try to avoid losing characters. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Florete Posted February 17, 2017 Share Posted February 17, 2017 I like it. It keeps incentive to not lose your units in battle without resorting to permadeath, which naturally would not be good in this kind of game. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aymodez Posted February 17, 2017 Share Posted February 17, 2017 Never played any of the FE games prior to Heroes, but I like the exp loss if you die. Being able to adjust your team and strategy is key to games like these. I mean, cmon, where's the challenge, really. I played Everquest back in the late 90s. When you died in a certain area of the zone (map), you acquire experience debt and your corpse would remain where you died. You would then have to RUN BACK (depending on what city you're bounded to, like a checkpoint) to your corpse in order to get that loss of exp (but a fraction is only returned). Sometimes it can take 10 minutes to get your corpse back, sometimes 10 days IRL. Sometimes if you end up dying on the corpse run, now you have 2 corpses to recover and even more exp debt lol... Hey, I'm no stranger to such challenges... TL;DR : Welcome to a world where challenges exists. FeHeroes is JUST FINE THE WAY IT IS WITH EXPERIENCE. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kcirrot Posted February 17, 2017 Share Posted February 17, 2017 1 hour ago, The DanMan said: It's honestly something I wish they'd carry over to the main games; it would give some incentive for casual mode players to strategize and try to avoid losing characters. Just out of curiosity, why do you care whether other players strategize and try to avoid losing characters? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The DanMan Posted February 18, 2017 Share Posted February 18, 2017 10 minutes ago, kcirrot said: Just out of curiosity, why do you care whether other players strategize and try to avoid losing characters? Trying to play strategically is kinda the whole point of the series-- it codified the SRPG genre (with Famicom Wars founding it). Really though, I don't care a whole lot either way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sentinel07 Posted February 18, 2017 Share Posted February 18, 2017 I've certainly noticed and I actually like it. Is it frustrating? Of course it is...but guess what, this is a STRATEGY RPG! Don't want to lose EXP? Then be a good strategist and keep your units alive. If anything, I wouldn't be opposed to seeing this mechanic make it into the main series. It keeps the strategy in place while also allowing you to not permanently lose units. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZXApocrypha Posted February 18, 2017 Share Posted February 18, 2017 3 hours ago, Sarki said: Can we please talk about the stupid mechanic where your unit will loss all EXP/stat growths/levels upon depth? Ever noticed that if one of your units levels up in battle, dies, then look at them after the battle, they'll be back to their conditions when the battle began? It appears Heroes cancels any EXP you gained via battle if you fall in battle. There is no other Fire Emblem game (I know of) that does this. All it does it inhibits growth on your weaker units, making it serve seemingly no purpose but player inconvenience. Hope you like expending Light's Blessing & even Orbs for those 3 levels you missed to gain Selena to 20! lol, you sound like someone that's been spoiled by Awakening and Fates' Casual mode. imo it's not FE if there's no permadeath. be glad that's not the case here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PuffPuff Posted February 18, 2017 Share Posted February 18, 2017 Your stats gained upon level up are not changed when starting over to level up again next time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CalicoWunohthree Posted February 18, 2017 Share Posted February 18, 2017 I really don't think this "stupid mechanic" is as bad as you're making it out to be. I'd even go so far as to say it's an improvement over the main series' Casual mode, because while I dislike losing units permanently, I still want some incentive to actually strategize beyond "throw my guys at your guys until your guys die and I win". Yes, losing EXP is frustrating if you don't expect it, and I agree that needs to be made clearer to the player. However, it's no fault of the game's if you, say, position your low-Res melee unit in the sights of 3 enemy mages and expect nothing bad to happen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sarki Soliloquy Posted February 18, 2017 Author Share Posted February 18, 2017 (edited) Thank you to everyone for replying. I admit that I was thinking very parochially when I made this thread & didn't bother to consider other people's perspectives about this. I feel like I understand the nuances to this mechanic more. 15 hours ago, ZXApocrypha said: lol, you sound like someone that's been spoiled by Awakening and Fates' Casual mode. imo it's not FE if there's no permadeath. be glad that's not the case here. Nice assumption! FYI, I've never played either of those games on Casual mode because I like the difficulty & risk of the Classic formula. I think my OP is proof precedent that those are the only games I've played through ATM. Need a refresher? 19 hours ago, Sarki said: There is no other Fire Emblem game (I know of) that does this. All it does it inhibits growth on your weaker units, making it serve seemingly no purpose but player inconvenience. Hope you like expending Light's Blessing & even Orbs for those 3 levels you missed to gain Selena to 20! 13 hours ago, PuffPuff said: Your stats gained upon level up are not changed when starting over to level up again next time. I did happen to notice this. It seems that growths in this game are absolute. In fact, the only real RNG comes through rolls and such. I suppose that makes it much more approachable for new players to deal with FE. Edited February 18, 2017 by Sarki Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SaMaster14 Posted February 19, 2017 Share Posted February 19, 2017 I was annoyed with it at first, but it's definitely better than perma-death (which would probably kill this game because of how the summoning system works) I've seemed to learn how to use the training tower effectively and strategically to level up. Battling the 'beginner' area helps as well when your units are decently powerful, but not yet at lv 40 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BANRYU Posted February 19, 2017 Share Posted February 19, 2017 On 2/17/2017 at 1:21 PM, Othin said: In every other Fire Emblem game, if a character dies, then unless you're playing Casual Mode in one of the recent ones, you lose them permanently unless you restart the map. In Heroes, you can keep playing and get them back afterwards, just without Exp gained from the map. This is much tamer than what previous FE games did, and I think it's quite a brilliant feature: you get a meaningful penalty, but not one so overwhelming that you feel compelled to restart. The only issue is that the penalty doesn't seem to be mentioned explicitly. I agree with you completely but the bolded part is my biggest issue, honestly. This is too important a mechanic not to teach the player about in some way/form/fashion, but so far as I've seen (reading most of the '?' button text) it's never mentioned. That's pretty egregious, so I can understand the outrage about it, even if it makes sense as a mechanic. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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