Positive things about Shadow Dragon

[Irysa]

I mean tbh you could argue that comic relief is not exactly an appropriate thing for that particular scene.

[Lord Tullus]

14 hours ago, Gustavos said:

What? A new paragraph implies a new argument, and all of what I wrote is one - an analysis of the scene. Posting an empty response without doing the reading, where's a mod when you need one? I refuse questions from somebody that won't add to the discussion.

 I think that you had some valid points with that(I read the whole thing), but as others said, it wasn't really meant as a critical scene.  It was one of comedy.  In most games where there's tension in a scene, and the atmosphere is the driving point of the scene, sometimes comedic relief can ruin it.  However, I think that it does this game justice, as we see later that this game has quite a bit of comedic relief written into its recruitment conversations and character interactions.

 It's the little scenes like this that make me appreciate the writers and translators; they have a sense of humor.  Doing this means they are having fun, and they're putting effort into the game.  Something that I really like to see.  

As for the save points, I think I do understand why they're not returning.  They were excellent mechanics, but the main problem is save scumming.  The way that shadow dragon's RNG worked was on a time based system.  So you could always get different outcomes if you had an iffy chance of survival, or tried too hard in the arena.  I love the save points, but I could also abuse them.  I would like to see them come back, but I feel like IS won't take that chance, now that there's casual mode.

Edited February 23, 2017 by Lord Tullus

[Etrurian emperor]

I like the whole Gaggles scene precisely because its so juvenile. It ads a little bit of charm to a game that I find to be lacking in it. Its just weird for the bandit to think Marth wouldn't notice his opponent was tied up but FE bandits are hardly the brightest bunch anyway. 

 

[eclipse]

15 hours ago, Irysa said:

I mean tbh you could argue that comic relief is not exactly an appropriate thing for that particular scene.

Perhaps it's to showcase that the enemy's getting cocky, so rather than putting Gordin's head on a pike (which would've been more fitting IMO), they decided to play dress-up.  The "dress-up" theme is revisited shortly afterwards, with someone that isn't Marth disguising himself to fool Gra's main army.  Given how easily Gra falls for the fake, maybe they're just really bad with the outward appearance thing, and thought that Marth would be, too.

Or maybe we're overanalyzing a video game script.

[Extrasolar]

On 2/22/2017 at 3:23 PM, unique said:

it's literally just there for a joke dude, and i'm pretty sure marth is like 13 years old at the time

his character has barely been established aside from him being young and foolish and considering the time skip between that and any other part of the game it's pushing it to call it "completely out of character"

 

 

Out of character? Nah. Well...Marth's character has changed quite a bit since original Shadow Dragon and the Blade of Light on the Famicom.

Back in the day, he was very much a naive, wide-eyed little kid (at heart; he was technically a teenager) who made silly statements like that.

Heck, when Jagen tells him he needs to choose which units to deploy:

Marth: "Um...all of them."
Jagen: "Sire, you can't do that. You must choose which units to deploy."
Marth: "Oh, okay! Um...all of them."

etc.

Mystery had him grow up and become the more noble, but still kind-hearted and loving person he is in SD and NM, which occasional flashes back to his more childlike self. It's a case of changing characterization.

Edited February 24, 2017 by Extrasolar

[maybe]

2 minutes ago, Extrasolar said:

Out of character? Nah. Well...Marth's character has changed quite a bit since original Shadow Dragon and the Blade of Light on the Famicom.

Back in the day, he was very much a naive, wide-eyed little kid (at heart, he was technically a teenager) who made silly statements like that.

Heck, when Jagen tells him he needs to choose which units to deploy:

Marth: "Um...all of them."
Jagen: "Sire, you can't do that. You must choose which units to deploy."
Marth: "Oh, okay! Um...all of them."

etc.

Mystery had him grow up and become the more noble, but still kind-hearted and loving person he is in SD and NM, which occasional flashes back to his more childlike self.

did you mean to quote the other guy because it sounds like you're agreeing with me 

[Extrasolar]

Just now, unique said:

did you mean to quote the other guy because it sounds like you're agreeing with me 

Huh? Nah, I was attaching an explanation to your post. Expanding it.

[maybe]

1 minute ago, Extrasolar said:

Huh? Nah, I was attaching an explanation to your post. Expanding it.

oh ok 

although with mine I was referring more to the fact that shadow dragon's prologue takes place like 4 or 5 years before the actual game 

but I didn't know that either so I guess that adds to it

[Extrasolar]

On 2/22/2017 at 2:59 PM, Gustavos said:

And the Yow! It's an enemy archer line being imagined word for word by the Ruffian who speaks nothing like Marth goes too far beyond one's suspension of disbelief - a total fourth wall break. The line is also completely out of character for Marth, and gods could you imagine if somebody like Corrin spoke that line in any context?

 

 

Out of character? Nah. Well...Marth's character has changed quite a bit since original Shadow Dragon and the Blade of Light on the Famicom.

Back in the day, he was very much a naive, wide-eyed little kid (at heart; he was technically a teenager) who made silly statements like that.

Heck, when Jagen tells him he needs to choose which units to deploy:

Marth: "Um...all of them."
Jagen : "Sire, you can't do that. You must choose which units to deploy."
Marth: "Oh, okay! Um...all of them."

etc.

Mystery had him grow up and become the more noble, but still kind-hearted and loving person he is in SD and NM, which occasional flashes back to his more childlike self. It's a case of changing characterization.

PS: Though I do want the original author of that post to see the explanation, so gonna quote him too with the explanation.

[Darrman]

8 hours ago, Extrasolar said:

Heck, when Jagen tells him he needs to choose which units to deploy:

Marth: "Um...all of them."
Jagen: "Sire, you can't do that. You must choose which units to deploy."
Marth: "Oh, okay! Um...all of them."

For the record, there is no actual line in FE1 along the lines of that. That quote is paraphrased from a let's play of FE1, and one where Marth acts fairly out of character at that. Battle preparations just appears in FE1 with no explanation and the cutscene alerting the player to battle preparations was added into FE11.

[FoxyGrandpa]

Playing this game right now through H1 and I can safely say that this is one of my favorite FE games from a gameplay perspective for a variety of reasons.

-Map Design: I've heard complaints that the map design of this game is really bad, but I honestly completely disagree. Playing through these maps is extremely fun. Most of them have multiple objectives that the player needs to accomplish and multiple ways to get to the end. These maps are admittingly, not as fun as the binding blade, but do have many elements that make the binding blade maps fun.

-Reclassing: Shadow Dragon, imo, has the best version of the reclassing system. Gives the player a ton of freedom in deciding what role they want specific units to fill in specific chapter / throughout the game. Also gives the game quite a bit of replay value as you try out different classes.

-Save Points; Great for trips, gives players some more strategic options such as deciding when exactly to use a save point.

-Sedgar and Wolf: I just love these guys due to how they are the anthesis of most prepromotes, with crap starting stats but high growths. Sedgar as a general is probably my favorite bow user in the series due to how beefy he is. Its just a shame they literally have no dialogue besides their death quotes.

-Atmosphere: Love the adventurous atmosphere of this game; which is a culmination of quite a few factors, namely the music, the art, and the animations. 

-Music: The soundtrack is all around solid, battle themes are upbeat, map themes reflect the tension of the conflict, end chapter themes are usually reflective of the situation and what potential conflicts Marth has / will face

-Conversations that specific characters can have after recruitment: Most of these are consistently good unlike the support conversations of the last few fire emblem games, which are mostly hit or miss

There are plenty of other things that I haven't mentioned that I really like about the game.

 

[Lord Tullus]

1 minute ago, FoxyGrandpa said:

Playing this game right now through H1 and I can safely say that this is one of my favorite FE games from a gameplay perspective for a variety of reasons.

-Conversations that specific characters can have after recruitment: Most of these are consistently good unlike the support conversations of the last few fire emblem games, which are mostly hit or miss

There are plenty of other things that I haven't mentioned that I really like about the game.

 

Glad you're enjoying it.  

[Dandy Druid]

Caeda got a bomb redesign.

[Lord Tullus]

9 hours ago, Dandy Druid said:

Caeda got a bomb redesign.

That she did.  You can tell as soon as chapter 1 starts.

[Fabulously Olivier]

I liked its unique artstyle in regards to character portraits.... and nothing else. The game had zero personality, no mission mode variety, and turned units into nothing more than stat sticks with no support conversations, no real discernible personality. This was further exacerbated by the class change system, which removed any semblance of class identity as well.

Despite playing through the game twice, I've effectively forgotten the vast majority of its story and content. It was just so forgettable all around. And my best friend, who has also beaten it twice, has said exactly the same. 

 

I'm not saying that this game has no redeeming qualities. If you like it, all the more power to you. To me, it's just the lowest point of the Fire Emblem series. But I suppose that the lowest point in the Fire Emblem series is still far above the quality of just about any other franchise.

 

[Interdimensional Observer]

This was first game to attempt reclass, and it did work to an extent. Plus, unlike 13 or 14, all promoted classes have a minimum of D or C weapon ranks, skipping the hell of E.

It also offered a new take on forging, one which wasn't too bad, if a little overpowered with effective weapons. And this was the first game to add weapon rank bonuses, making the triangle more relevant if you care about that.

The save points was idea was fairly balanced, only two per map, but available regardless of difficulty. It also gave us the now normal addition of super difficulties (and I think Merciless sounds better than Lunatic).

Gaiden chapters are always cool, but the blood price was bad, and it's not like Ymir or Horace or Etzel are uber strong or interesting. Only Athena (who has second Peg Knight shenanigans) was really worth it from a gameplay perspective. 

Dynamic growths, for what little they matter, would not be a bad way of keeping characters at least a little closer to their averages.

The issue was not enough got changed for the better. The enemy composition remained the same, which was lopsidedly armor and cavalry. Most characters remained silent, and often weak like Tomas or Bord. That no efforts were made to rebalance most characters to the new world is most visible in the prepromotes like Arran and Midia, they are usable only insofar as they can use that powerful effective weaponry.

They attempted multiplayer, but didn't realize all the problems it has in FE.

That said, I do acknowledge the effort they put into SD. They did make serious updates in battle formulae and mechanics to modern standards, while trying to preserve the original game's experience at the same time. Yet, what would have been lost if they added Swordmasters, Sages, and Warriors to old maps? Or if they increased the bases and growths of most characters? I can understand skipping out on supports though- that'd be a lot of dialogue for little reward.

[Lord Tullus]

1 hour ago, Interdimensional Observer said:

Or if they increased the bases and growths of most characters? 

Looks like someone didn't use the White wings or Wolf or Sedgar.  :P

Really though, I get what you're saying.  They could have done more to improve upon the overall variety as far as enemies, and maybe the characters.  One thing I will never forget about the game though, is how even though every character was forgettable, those who had lines had a place in the world, and you knew why they were there, and what they believed their roles were.  I think that's something the newer games could learn from in a way.  SD is not perfect, but it wasn't all bad.

[jumpy23]

One thing I don't think has been mentioned is that the game's combat is a lot better for foot units than in most other games. For one, enemy quality and density is pretty high. While high-range units such as Dracoknights and Paladins still tend to be invaluable units, this isn't a game where you can count on them to tank through the opposing forces all by themselves (partly because everyone and their mother has arrows / horseslayers). As such they actually need backup from your higher-damage-output Heroes, Warriors, and Sages in order to kill enough to survive enemy phase. For two, since maps weren't designed with Rescuing in mind, there's always something for your foot units to be doing. Most maps have multiple paths to follow, reinforcements coming from behind are ubiquitous, and there are almost never stupidly long alley ways. For three, 21 warp charges and 13 hammerne charges, lol. But yeah, Shadow Dragon has felt better for foot units than almost any other FE, at least of the one's I've played.

 

and of course the writing is absolutely top-notch best in the series hands down

Edited April 8, 2017 by jumpy23

[Lord Tullus]

5 hours ago, jumpy23 said:

One thing I don't think has been mentioned is that the game's combat is a lot better for foot units than in most other games. For one, enemy quality and density is pretty high. While high-range units such as Dracoknights and Paladins still tend to be invaluable units, this isn't a game where you can count on them to tank through the opposing forces all by themselves (partly because everyone and their mother has arrows / horseslayers). As such they actually need backup from your higher-damage-output Heroes, Warriors, and Sages in order to kill enough to survive enemy phase. 

and of course the writing is absolutely top-notch best in the series hands down

I agree.  My first experiences with Fire Emblem were Radiant dawn and shadow dragon, so I didn't understand all the praise that Horse units were getting.  Warp and forging is OP, and I like being able to use OP resources to make less OP units even more OP.    And you are quite right about the writing.   It may be the best in the series. Half the lines are quotable, and most of what marth says in regards to what needs to be done can never be more down to earth; he's got a job to do, and he's going to do it or die trying.

 (He obviously won't die, because you have Forged Rapiers at your side)

[maybe]

6 hours ago, jumpy23 said:

One thing I don't think has been mentioned is that the game's combat is a lot better for foot units than in most other games. For one, enemy quality and density is pretty high. While high-range units such as Dracoknights and Paladins still tend to be invaluable units, this isn't a game where you can count on them to tank through the opposing forces all by themselves (partly because everyone and their mother has arrows / horseslayers). As such they actually need backup from your higher-damage-output Heroes, Warriors, and Sages in order to kill enough to survive enemy phase. For two, since maps weren't designed with Rescuing in mind, there's always something for your foot units to be doing. Most maps have multiple paths to follow, reinforcements coming from behind are ubiquitous, and there are almost never stupidly long alley ways. For three, 21 warp charges and 13 hammerne charges, lol. But yeah, Shadow Dragon has felt better for foot units than almost any other FE, at least of the one's I've played.

 

and of course the writing is absolutely top-notch best in the series hands down

there's also the ballista guys who can easily screw over your fliers if you don't get them out of the way

adds much more value to knights and other units with higher defense 

[TheZakkAttack]

Shadow Dragon was my first Fire Emblem game, believe it or not. It didn't leave too much of an impact on me, since I was 10 when I got my hands on it and I didn't know how to play Fire Emblem then. Like my title says. I'm a moron. However, the soundtrack, especially the enemy attacking theme, is so good it's stayed in my head since I played it.

[eclipse]

On 4/8/2017 at 8:16 AM, jumpy23 said:

One thing I don't think has been mentioned is that the game's combat is a lot better for foot units than in most other games. For one, enemy quality and density is pretty high. While high-range units such as Dracoknights and Paladins still tend to be invaluable units, this isn't a game where you can count on them to tank through the opposing forces all by themselves (partly because everyone and their mother has arrows / horseslayers). As such they actually need backup from your higher-damage-output Heroes, Warriors, and Sages in order to kill enough to survive enemy phase. For two, since maps weren't designed with Rescuing in mind, there's always something for your foot units to be doing. Most maps have multiple paths to follow, reinforcements coming from behind are ubiquitous, and there are almost never stupidly long alley ways. For three, 21 warp charges and 13 hammerne charges, lol. But yeah, Shadow Dragon has felt better for foot units than almost any other FE, at least of the one's I've played.

 

and of course the writing is absolutely top-notch best in the series hands down

On lower difficulties (H2 and below), a horse/flier rush is pretty effective.  Ridersbane doesn't matter if it can't hit.  It's to the point where it's better to keep the individual orbs than forge Starlight.  This is for drafting, which aims for both low turncounts and a restricted roster - by restricted, I mean you get only one of Cain/Abel/Caeda, and that's if you're lucky.  On higher difficulties, Generals have their use, as do Snipers/Swordmasters/staffbots, but you'll still have a good amount of horses/fliers.  Reclassing means that certain characters benefit from getting off of their horse (namely, the Wolfguard).

There's also 28 Warp charges - Lena, the Chapter 12 thief, a chest in Chapter 17, and a chest in Chapter 17x.

[TadpoleSuperHero]

Combat animations may be basic, but they are so fast and fluid, it's really impressive what they were able to do with them. Character models aren't pretty, but their movements sure are. 

The soundtrack is quite nice.

The writing is excellent. Basic, more predictable stories like this live or die on their writing, and Shadow Dragon kills it. 

The artwork is fantastic - those painting-style shots of key moments or characters are just fantastic, and it's where the art style truly shines. The character portraits in conversations aren't much to look at, but those paintings are gorgeous. 

Quality-of-life improvements over every game before Shadow Dragon, which then carried over to and were further refined in Awakening and beyond.

Marth's a pretty rad dude.

[Schleimann]

A few of the things I love from FE11:

The characterization:
Although most characters are barely developed, those who are are done so excellently. It also feels like every character is very conscious that there is a war going on and that tragedy is sure to befall people (little do they know, soft resets!) which I really like. The game also boasts two excellent villains in Camus and Michalis. Marth is the best lord I've ever seen.

The atmosphere:
The toned down animation, the maps, the semi realistic portraits all help build towards a heavier feeling then most Fire Emblem games aim for.

The artistic value:
Most of the game is aimed at expressing one thing: war sucks. And that one goal is better achieved than in most other FE games. (Echoes tries to be all about nobility not being that special, but Echoes then goes "those two royal kids are the chosen ones!")

The writing style:
It's better than that of any other FE game. It's better than most books. It's amazing.